# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Town/City Mapping >  City of Wheloon - WIP

## Patrakis

I've started a new project ( like i needed another one) for my campaign in the forgotten realms region of Cormyr.

I needed a city map of Wheloon and since i pretty much redo all the maps from the books i buy, i thought to go back to CC3 with this one. More precisely CD3 since it came out two weeks ago.

This is very much a WIP cause i'm trying my hand at shaded relief with this one. Well, what can be done in CC3.

I hope to get some comments on this one to see if the effects is somewhat convincing.

Here is my first try.

Thanks

Pat

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## Steel General

Can't view the full-size version, it comes back with an error. Might want to re-post.

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## Patrakis

Hmmm, strange, loads nicely where i'm at.

I'll try a reload.

Pat

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## Patrakis

Reposted. Hope it's ok now.

Pat

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## Gandwarf

It worked for me.
Anyway, very nice map, congrats! I'm probably gonna "steal" some ideas from you  :Wink: 

It looks quite natural and I like the way the roads lead up to many houses. The map looks really good zoomed out. How did you do those height lines? With the line tool? 

How do people cross the river? Is there gonna be a ferry of bridge?

Glad to see more people using CD3. Now hopefully we can learn from each others work!

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## Steel General

Yup, this version's OK. Looking good so far.

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## Patrakis

Hi,

As it's a very early stage of development, the map is missing many details. Like a way to illustrate it's a ferry that get people across the river. 

The contour lines are actually smooth polygons that are hollowed.

Any comments on the shading part. It is convincing?

Pat

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## Gandwarf

> Hi,
> 
> As it's a very early stage of development, the map is missing many details. Like a way to illustrate it's a ferry that get people across the river. 
> 
> The contour lines are actually smooth polygons that are hollowed.
> 
> Any comments on the shading part. It is convincing?
> 
> Pat


Yes, I like it. Although if you zoom in too much the effect is lost.

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## Patrakis

Here is a bit more work on it. 

Added some farms, started the forest paterns and i worked a bit more on the relief effect.

Pat

ps.: I tried to upload a 3.2 mb file but the system hangs or i get a no link message. It happen2 times since yesterday. This on is 1.4 mb and loaded fine.

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## Gandwarf

The fields look nice and finally we have a ferry  :Smile: 

Also, the relief looks a lot better!

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## Patrakis

Another update for the map. But not that many visitors though, except you Gandwarf...and i thank you  :Smile: 

I wasn't too happy with my color scheme and your maps inspired me. So i've changed quite a bit that aspect of the map.

Now all i miss is the text that will go into it and i just can't figure out a way to apply drop shadows to tree symbols in CC3. There must be something i'm missing there. Other than that, i think i like the results so far.

Pat

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## Gandwarf

And again it looks a lot better! The fields look great now and the colors feel more natural (like the roads).
What are those large green areas? It could be forests, but they look like cliffs. Either way I am not sure I like those.

What I like about your map and I am trying to copy myself is your road system. The roads leading up to all the houses, some squares, etc.

What sheet are your trees on? They look like symbols and should be on the "Symbols" sheet. Just add some effects like a drop shadow on that sheet and they will cast a shadow.

And I am sure I am not the only one interested in your map. Your thread has been viewed over a 130 times now. Lots of people just looking and not commenting  :Razz:

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## Gandwarf

I like the beaches (or sandy areas) along the river. How did you do that?

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## Steel General

I think this is coming along quite nicely. I agree with Gandwarf though, the forests look more like plateaus. I'm sure you'll get that worked out though.  :Smile:

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## Ascension

This is the first one that I've been able to see as the others wouldn't load for me...some kind of error message.  Not sure about that drop shadow on the forests but otherwise this looks pretty good.

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## mmmmmpig

If you opened up some holes in the forest canopy, I think they would seem less plateau-ish.

I love the simplicity of your lines.  They are clean and effective  Many people think that a simple map is simple to do, sometimes they are significantly harder than more complex ones.  You have a good eye for choosing what details are necessary.

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## Patrakis

Hi all,

Thanks for all the comments. I've been thinking about the shadow under the forest and i think i agree but to a mesure. This version shows a very dimished use of that effect that i hope will give a better sense of the forest. 

Unless there are major points, i think this one is done and i would thank everyone for their advice as it has improved my map immensely.

I hope it deserves a place in these halls of cartography  :Smile: 

Pat

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## Patrakis

> I like the beaches (or sandy areas) along the river. How did you do that?


Well the beaches are pretty simple really. All i did was apply an inside glow to my main land polygon with a light beige color. Set a soft strengh and a long blur. Thats about it.

Pat

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## Patrakis

> If you opened up some holes in the forest canopy, I think they would seem less plateau-ish.
> 
> I love the simplicity of your lines.  They are clean and effective  Many people think that a simple map is simple to do, sometimes they are significantly harder than more complex ones.  You have a good eye for choosing what details are necessary.


Thanks . I've tried cutting holes in the forest and the effect is very interesting. I will surely use that technique in other maps but for this one, since toning down the drop shadow effect a lot, i think the final results are pretty good.

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## Gandwarf

> Thanks . I've tried cutting holes in the forest and the effect is very interesting. I will surely use that technique in other maps but for this one, since toning down the drop shadow effect a lot, i think the final results are pretty good.


The final results are actually very good. This map is now very well done.
I think it's cool that using the same software people can get totally different looking maps (comparing our maps for example).

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## Steel General

I think the forest are much better now, and the rest of it is very good. Nicely done!  :Smile:

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## Trebuchet

I just joined this forum, and right away I found this lovely map of Wheloon.  As a beginner in using Campaign Cartography, I am amazed at what an expert can do.  How fun!

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## mmmmmpig

toning down the drop shadow worked great.  It also helped to break the color up more with the text elements.  This turned out just fine!

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## Patrakis

Well i've touched up the map a bit to show more buildings that i forgot and ... removed the forested area  :Frown:  I'm sad because i liked the effect but after reading more on the town i found that in essence, the city is surrounded by farmland and not forest. So removre it and placed more farmlands.

I think it still does the job ok and i'll use forest on my next project, the City of Shadowdale  :Smile: 

Thanks

Pat

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## Gandwarf

> Well i've touched up the map a bit to show more buildings that i forgot and ... removed the forested area  I'm sad because i liked the effect but after reading more on the town i found that in essence, the city is surrounded by farmland and not forest. So removre it and placed more farmlands.
> 
> I think it still does the job ok and i'll use forest on my next project, the City of Shadowdale 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Pat


Uh, where's the new version?

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## Patrakis

Opps  :Smile: 

Here is the link.

http://patoumonde.com/maps/MAP%20-%2...0Final%20b.JPG

The file is too big now for the attachment limits.

Pat

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## Ascension

Wow that looks pretty cool.  Maybe I should get that darn program and then put my own spin on things.  Nice job.

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## Steel General

This is pretty cool, I really like it except for one teeny-tiny, little thing... it seems like everything is kind of floating (houses, trees, etc.). Not sure if that's a CC thing, hell it might just be me.  :Smile: 

Anyone else think so, or are my eyes really getting as bad as I'm always joking they are?

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## Gandwarf

> This is pretty cool, I really like it except for one teeny-tiny, little thing... it seems like everything is kind of floating (houses, trees, etc.). Not sure if that's a CC thing, hell it might just be me. 
> 
> Anyone else think so, or are my eyes really getting as bad as I'm always joking they are?


No, I agree. It looks like all the stuff is floating in the air.
I checked the version before this one and you can't really notice the problem there as the map has a smaller size. This large version is still gorgeous but if you zoom in you get the floaty effect... weird.

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## RobA

It is the drop shadow effect.  It looks like this:


```
 __
|  |_
|__| |
  |__|
```

rather than this:


```
 __
|  |\
|__| |
 \___|
```

-Rob A>

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## mmmmmpig

ooooh, ascii examples for the win

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## Patrakis

Hmm, so i should use the wall shadow instead of the drop shadow....I'll look into it. Thanks.

Pat

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## Steel General

@RobA - Thanks...I kind of thought it might be the drop-shadow, but was waiting for someone with more CC knowledge to validate my assumption.  :Smile:

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## Redstar

Yeah, this looks really nice!  How did you do the trees?  Is that just a CC palette thing?

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## Patrakis

Yep, those trees are from the CC3 bundle...i think they are from the SS2 extension.

Pat

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## goatdealer

Being a great FR fan, I think your map is excellent and a great example of what can be done with CC. (though I cant see the finished version as the web site says 'not allowed, I am required to log in')

Slightly on the same topic(ish), I am assuming (by the absence of walls) that this is the 3E version.  I was wondering on what your take was on how Wheloon became a prison town?   More in terms of practical things, it would need walls if it was to be a prison that people escape from, but how do you build a wall around a town that has a river in the middle of it? If I was to make a town a prison, Wheloon would probably not be it!  It does not seem to lend itself to this type of activity.  My only guess was that the river may have dried up when some of the water receeded but Mike Schley's map of Cormyr would suggest other wise.  What do you reckon?

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## Midgardsormr

I think I'd put some towers with underwater foundations on either side of the river and put a grate across the channel to prevent swimmers from escaping.  A spiked overhang at the top of it would prevent a swimmer from climbing over it, and anyone who tried would be a nice target for archers in the towers.  There might need to either be a gate or a portage to permit legitimate water travel.

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## Patrakis

HI there and thanks for your appreciation.

As for Wheloon in the 4E era, i'm affraid i wouldn't know. I haven't picked up anything for 4E so everything i so will be canon to the 3e and before era.

As for the river problem, well, i would just limit the prison to one side of the river. There's no good reason for having a river passing through the middle of a prison. I don't know what happened to Wheloon in 4E but if it became a prison, i would've stayed on one bank of the river.

Pat

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## Vanix

> Being a great FR fan, I think your map is excellent and a great example of what can be done with CC. (though I cant see the finished version as the web site says 'not allowed, I am required to log in')
> 
> Slightly on the same topic(ish), I am assuming (by the absence of walls) that this is the 3E version.  I was wondering on what your take was on how Wheloon became a prison town?   More in terms of practical things, it would need walls if it was to be a prison that people escape from, but how do you build a wall around a town that has a river in the middle of it? If I was to make a town a prison, Wheloon would probably not be it!  It does not seem to lend itself to this type of activity.  My only guess was that the river may have dried up when some of the water receeded but Mike Schley's map of Cormyr would suggest other wise.  What do you reckon?


Great map of Wheloon!
I am also interested in a 4E Wheloon map as there are plenty of story-lines in a prison city.  Just from what I've read in the 2 new 4E FR books as well as the Cormyr novel, it was walled in with 'bricks and magic'.  

My guess is this would look like a great wall all around the Western side of the city, cutting off access from the river and docks.  Though some trade could perhaps take place through controlled wall gates via guards or some such, a magical barrier would likely be in place, even in the sewers. 

My two cents.  I would be happy to assist with a new 4E map of the city, building on what's here.  Nobody has anything this good.

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## skellis_nyx

> Great map of Wheloon!
> I am also interested in a 4E Wheloon map as there are plenty of story-lines in a prison city.  Just from what I've read in the 2 new 4E FR books as well as the Cormyr novel, it was walled in with 'bricks and magic'.  
> 
> My guess is this would look like a great wall all around the Western side of the city, cutting off access from the river and docks.  Though some trade could perhaps take place through controlled wall gates via guards or some such, a magical barrier would likely be in place, even in the sewers. 
> 
> My two cents.  I would be happy to assist with a new 4E map of the city, building on what's here.  Nobody has anything this good.


hey i'm looking into running the "Gangs of wheloon" LFR adventure and if anyone has any kind of 4E  map of the city i would love to get a copy?

i'm sure i could use this one and just draw on some walls but i do feel like that waould be kind of defacing a great looking map?

any help you could send my way would be greatly apreciated!!!

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## Patrakis

Hi there,

Just got a wake up call that this thread was posted on. it's been a while since i made a map and since last i posted, i moved my website a bit. I'll update the map section of my website and host the map there and give you guys a heads up when it's done.

For those interested, feel free to use the map and i'll post the CC file so you can modify it if you care to.

Thanks for the interest.
Pat

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## Gandwarf

Ooooh... Patrakis is still alive  :Wink:

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## Patrakis

Hi Gandwarf,

Mapping wise, barely  :Smile:  I'm still gaming every week but i can't find time mapping since i discovered a new time consuming passtime .... Cardboard or papermodeling. I've been building scenery and 3d maps for my game with stuff from WorldWorksGames lately and i'm having fun doing that. I'm sure i'll come back to mapping soon but for the time being, it's on a need to do basis.  :Smile: 

Anyway, i'll update my maps soon.

Pat

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## Aval Penworth

Well Patrakis, you could take a photo of your models and 3d maps and post those.  I am sure folks would be interested.

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## Demospawn

Patrakis,

Any chance you'd be willing to post the latest version of this on your site?  Couldn't find anything but the ValeDale materials there.

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## Patrakis

I'm almost ashame to come back to this since this map was so long ago and so many better maps are made now days.

but, for the sake of completeness, here's a working link to the map of Welhoon.

http://www.patoumonde.com/villes.html

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## delgondahntelius

Hey, never be ashamed of your maps. I think it looks great!!  :Very Happy: 

Is that still CD3? Does that work on windows 10? I still have all my CC3 disk set, I bought them when they first came out, but I haven't tried to install them on this new laptop. I haven't even tried to use CC in forever, I don't even know if I could make a map with it anymore.

Del

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## Patrakis

Hi there,

Still use that old software and it works great on Window 10. CD3 was used for the map yes.

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