# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Building/Structure Mapping >  The old watch Inn

## - JO -

Hello !

Due to real life (well... work), I'm not drawing maps as much as I would like since the end of my hollydays.

But here's a project I'm working on since one month, a few hours per week... It's far from finished but now I feel like it's going somewhere. So after a lot of erasing and starting again, I thought it could be something you could look at without too much disgust.

It's still related to the story my wife is writing : some important parts of the story happens here, in this old watch, which is now an Inn.

It's still a WIP, I have a lot to do (roads, walls, inside the Inn, shadows of the buildings on the ground, etc, etc) but I might need some advices (i.e. for the walls : texture (like on the buildings) or drawings (like for the main gate) ?)

Thanks for your comments...

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## Mouse

Hey it's Jo!!!

Hi buddy  :Very Happy: 

This is a new map style for you - a sort of dungeon style map?  I like the cliffs, especially the little crinkly bits along the top edge in the grass.  Also very much like the roof tops.

Not keen on the very uniform paving in the courtyard, however.  Are you planning to add bits of weed and grass to that?

I've got a couple of paving textures that might help (if you still use textures nowadays)   :Smile: 

EDIT:  I've just uploaded one to my "Textures and other useful bits and bobs" album if you're interested.  If it would be useful but its not quite the right colour or too dark or to light just let me know.  Its one of my own that I made from scratch, so I can adjust it quite easily  :Smile:

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## - JO -

So... Thanks to Ilanthar, I discovered Sketchup...

Fatal mistake...

I was stuck with this insane software these last days... and to try it, I made a 3D model of the pending illustration I try to end...

Here are some picture of the result :

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## Mouse

Oh wow!

You make it look easy, but I bet it isn't  :Wink: 

That detail shot is very impressive.

Can you texture the model?

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## - JO -

Yes... and I will...

But just for show : the textures are not really good

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## Ilanthar

It's fantastic - Jo -  :Smile: ! The topography is just splendid and you pushed the details quite far (really nice carpentry  :Smile: !
I'm watching this with interest.

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## Mouse

Are you using textures like these?

https://www.sketchuptextureclub.com/

I thought they looked pretty cool when I accidentally tripped up over the site while I was looking for something else.

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## jamestwitherspoon

Looks great so far! I too am recently discovering Sketchup. I need to learn how to do the terrain like that.

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## - JO -

There are a lot of good tutorials... If you want I can give you the URL, but it's in French...

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## ThomasR

You never cease to amaze me Joel ! I wanted to get started with sketch up but time goes by and you always have other stuff you gotta take care of... I'd be greatly interested by those tutorials and I'm eager to see more  :Wink:

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## J.Edward

Oooh this looks interesting  :Very Happy: 
The progress pics look fun.
I'll have to keep watching this one progress.  :Smile:

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## - JO -

Thanks Thomrey !
Actually, there's so much tutorials that you just have to describe what you want to do on a google search, and add the word sketchup to find your answer... (I might be a bit exagerating..)

For the B A BA, here's 2 good ones : 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesbKHqmgyU 
http://www.formation-sketchup.fr/Tutoriel.html

And then, regarding what you want to do, you find answers everywhere :

houses : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZ57EvWAwk
castle : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ATuhUUMhY
boat : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ySPeFEcuc
etc. etc..

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## - JO -

Thanks J. Edward...

It'll take a while... I'm busy now drawing a statue of.. you !

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## Bogie

Nice work Jo

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## - JO -

Here's an update for this project.... which moves so slowly...

I searched an idea for the frame for a long time now, and I spent a lot of time to realise that :

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## Meshon

I really like the border, it looks excellent and fits the map perfectly. Congratulations on some great work so far!

Cheers,
Meshon

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## - JO -

> I really like the border, it looks excellent and fits the map perfectly. Congratulations on some great work so far!
> 
> Cheers,
> Meshon


Thanks a lot, Meshon... still a lot to do !

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## whisper_my_name

That well is pristine!!! hahaha. I'm sure you will be adding some distressing factors to the cobblestone, and the well. I think it looks great though. Thanks for sharing.

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## DanielHasenbos

Very nice Inn Jo! You've done an amazing job on the tiles of the tower roof.

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## ThomasR

The map is gorgeous and I love the subtle shadows but the gallow-y frame is what wins my heart on this  :Smile:

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## Mouse

I love it, Jo  :Smile: 

I have to admit its been a while.  I'd almost forgotten this one with all the other lovely maps you've been drawing in the last couple of months.

No one else has mentioned it, I know, which makes me wonder if its just me, but do you think it would look even better if you gave those floor plans just a couple more millimetres space between them and the edge of the frame?

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## - JO -

> That well is pristine!!! hahaha. I'm sure you will be adding some distressing factors to the cobblestone, and the well. I think it looks great though. Thanks for sharing.


Thnks a lot... though it's not a well, but a semi-destroyed tower... I still have to work on the shadows to make it obvious  :Wink: 




> Very nice Inn Jo! You've done an amazing job on the tiles of the tower roof.


Thanks ! I used a tutorial found here in the guild, for Illustrator... I had to adapt it, but I think it worked not so bad...




> The map is gorgeous and I love the subtle shadows but the gallow-y frame is what wins my heart on this


Thanks a lot Thomas... I'm glad you liked it... I thought about that frame for months... that's the best I could think, regarding the subject...




> I love it, Jo 
> 
> I have to admit its been a while.  I'd almost forgotten this one with all the other lovely maps you've been drawing in the last couple of months.
> 
> No one else has mentioned it, I know, which makes me wonder if its just me, but do you think it would look even better if you gave those floor plans just a couple more millimetres space between them and the edge of the frame?


Thanks Mouse ! I see what you mean and I'll see what I can do about it...

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## - JO -

Here's an update... I worked on the courtyard and the paved road because as Mouse and Whisper my name said, it was too new and neat. So I spent the day destroying that road...  :Very Happy:  !

I worked on the plan of the first floor too... it's really a long term work

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## Josiah VE

The amount of detail you've put into those buildings is truly astounding. The border is also very impressive. Great stuff!  :Very Happy:

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## - JO -

> The amount of detail you've put into those buildings is truly astounding. The border is also very impressive. Great stuff!


Thanks ! Coming from you, it's a real big compliment... So I hope you'll like this update :

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## - JO -

Another update with some corrections for the perspective of the leather painting, I added shadows for this painting and a paved courtyard for th bottom frame

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## Greg

The sheer detail and dedication you put into each of you maps is really inspiring, Joel!

This one in particular as I'm just finishing up an inn map myself. I may just have to steal your idea of the inn sign title if that's alright with you...

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## - JO -

> The sheer detail and dedication you put into each of you maps is really inspiring, Joel!
> 
> This one in particular as I'm just finishing up an inn map myself. I may just have to steal your idea of the inn sign title if that's alright with you...


Of course, you're welcome ! And thanks for your kind words !
It's funny how's perception : I found most of my work sloppy ... I know that I could be a lot more thorough in drawing the details, and I see in every of my maps all the places where my stroke is not finished, where the colors does not fill completely the surface, and so on...
I still have that crazy idea that someday I'll be patient enough to carry all my attention to every stroke in a map, and that I'll take all the time needed, without impatiently jumping to the fellowing step (just to see how it'll looks...)... Someday, maybe... meanwhile, I have too much ideas, too much maps waiting in my head to be drawn and never enough time...
I guess it's more or less the same for anyone ?

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## Greg

> Of course, you're welcome ! And thanks for your kind words !
> It's funny how's perception : I found most of my work sloppy ... I know that I could be a lot more thorough in drawing the details, and I see in every of my maps all the places where my stroke is not finished, where the colors does not fill completely the surface, and so on...
> I still have that crazy idea that someday I'll be patient enough to carry all my attention to every stroke in a map, and that I'll take all the time needed, without impatiently jumping to the fellowing step (just to see how it'll looks...)... Someday, maybe... meanwhile, I have too much ideas, too much maps waiting in my head to be drawn and never enough time...
> I guess it's more or less the same for anyone ?


Haha, yeah, I think you've summed it up pretty well. Almost all of my maps, I can see something I've done in a rush, something not quite right, something where I think I've mashed lines together horribly, but that's always the curse of any art, or any endeavour I guess. You always see the "flaws" because you've lived through them and been up close and personal with it all.

Strangely enough with my inn map, the second part of what you say really comes through, as I've hopped all over the place on that one. Putting in colours, shadows, etc here and there without even finishing up the layout or the linework.  :Razz:

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## - JO -

> Strangely enough with my inn map, the second part of what you say really comes through, as I've hopped all over the place on that one. Putting in colours, shadows, etc here and there without even finishing up the layout or the linework.


Yeah... it's the "let me see ! Let me see !" Syndrom... You somehow know that it'll be better looking with colors and shadows, so you want to see it straight away... It's really a work on oneself, learning patience and self confidence... Maps makes us better women and men !

... And now I have to stop my medics...  :Razz:

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## Greg

> Yeah... it's the "let me see ! Let me see !" Syndrom... You somehow know that it'll be better looking with colors and shadows, so you want to see it straight away... It's really a work on oneself, learning patience and self confidence... Maps makes us better women and men !
> 
> ... And now I have to stop my medics...


Hahaha, yeah, just all of us getting a bit over eager I guess! But nothing wrong with being a bit enthusiastic about what we're working on I guess...  :Razz: 

Just, as you say, patience can be darn hard to have sometimes!

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## Tenia

Stunning details and textures ! Shadows are missing  for some buildings on the main map, no ? Lovely rusty sign  :Wink:

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## - JO -

> Stunning details and textures ! Shadows are missing  for some buildings on the main map, no ? Lovely rusty sign


Thanks !I know for the shadows, I will do it at the very end !

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## - JO -

Here's another update... one floor to go and then the shadows on the main view....

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## Mouse

Its beautiful, Jo  :Very Happy: 

I LOVE the sign!

And so much tiny detail in those floor plans.  I was thinking you were just going to do simple layouts! LOL!

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## ThomasR

I'm always upset by the "brush" ("peigne") look of the grass, north of the hill and east of the first curve of the road. Any reason why it's that way ?

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## Falconius

This is a cool map Jo, it's got everything going on there.

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## - JO -

> Its beautiful, Jo 
> 
> I LOVE the sign!
> 
> And so much tiny detail in those floor plans.  I was thinking you were just going to do simple layouts! LOL!


Thanks Mouse ! Looking now to the whole map I think it’s a bit over loaded... but I'll go with it anyway... it’s time I put an end to this project...




> I'm always upset by the "brush" ("peigne") look of the grass, north of the hill and east of the first curve of the road. Any reason why it's that way ?


It’s supposed to be little bumps in the terrain... some reliefs, but I see what you mean... I still have to work on the whole shadows of the main picture. I’ll see what I can do about that...




> This is a cool map Jo, it's got everything going on there.


Thanks Falconius ! It’s a long time project that I’m glad to see coming to an end now...

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## ThomasR

> It’s supposed to be little bumps in the terrain... some reliefs, but I see what you mean... I still have to work on the whole shadows of the main picture. I’ll see what I can do about that...


It's pretty consistent with the cliff itself so, don't bother, it's just that it caught my eye. It's regular but totally consistent with your terrain.

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## - JO -

Here's another update....

I think I start to see the end of it.

I gladly take your critics and comments to make some last corrections !

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## Mouse

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'overloaded'.  It looks beautiful to me  :Smile: 

If there is just one thing, however, its the size and tone of the trees/bushes.  I didn't really notice them last time because I was absorbing the glorious detail of the floorplans, but if they are trees then they should be quite a lot larger than they are.  They are also the darkest thing in the map by a very long way - in the map being anything not part of the frame or insets.  Even if they are cypress trees, and therefore tall thin and relatively dark, I still think they could do with being only a couple of shades darker than the grass just to blend them with the landscape a little more.  The spread is a bit too regular - mostly pairs of trees spaced along either side of the road.

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## QED42

Looking very cool! Maybe it's just me but to my eye the cliffs look a little flat.

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## - JO -

> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'overloaded'.  It looks beautiful to me 
> 
> If there is just one thing, however, its the size and tone of the trees/bushes.  I didn't really notice them last time because I was absorbing the glorious detail of the floorplans, but if they are trees then they should be quite a lot larger than they are.  They are also the darkest thing in the map by a very long way - in the map being anything not part of the frame or insets.  Even if they are cypress trees, and therefore tall thin and relatively dark, I still think they could do with being only a couple of shades darker than the grass just to blend them with the landscape a little more.  The spread is a bit too regular - mostly pairs of trees spaced along either side of the road.


Hi Mouse ! Thanks for your comments... So I did made the trees (that are supposed to be pines...) bigger and a bit lighter (pines are usually quite dark)... Tell me what you think !




> Looking very cool! Maybe it's just me but to my eye the cliffs look a little flat.


Thanks for your comment... I added a bit of texture on the cliffs... and then, I looked at the grass... and added a bit of texture too on the grass... I think both are less flat ?

Here's the new WIP :

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## Mouse

They look much better  :Smile: 

If you haven't merged the lines with the green, they might look even better if the black/dark green is just a tad less contrasty with the lighter parts... I think.  At the moment there's far more contrast in the pine needle texture than there is between the tiles on the roofs and the cracks between them, or in the thickness of the lines defining each of the stones of the ruined walls.  Maybe use a mixture of oranges and not quite such dark greens instead of the black in those trees? (a dull orange like the cones and bark).

(If I'm getting annoying just slap me!)

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## - JO -

> They look much better 
> 
> If you haven't merged the lines with the green, they might look even better if the black/dark green is just a tad less contrasty with the lighter parts... I think.  At the moment there's far more contrast in the pine needle texture than there is between the tiles on the roofs and the cracks between them, or in the thickness of the lines defining each of the stones of the ruined walls.  Maybe use a mixture of oranges and not quite such dark greens instead of the black in those trees? (a dull orange like the cones and bark).
> 
> (If I'm getting annoying just slap me!)


Thanks again for your comments and for your help !
As I had to merge the trees layers, I could not work on those as suggested. I tried to diminish the contrast between the sunny side and the shadows, without losing too much of their colors (but they were very bright anyway....) Tell me if it's better ?

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## Mouse

Much better  :Smile: 

Dimming down those very bright greens has worked wonders  :Wink:

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## ThomasR

The textures you added to the cliff and grass are really doing their job. Bravo !

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## Warlin

An interesting thread Jo. Nice to see all the step you did to develop this.
Cheers.

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## - JO -

> Much better 
> 
> Dimming down those very bright greens has worked wonders





> The textures you added to the cliff and grass are really doing their job. Bravo !





> An interesting thread Jo. Nice to see all the step you did to develop this.
> Cheers.


Thanks a lot ! I think I'll stop this one here... I know there's a lot I can do better, but after more than one year, it's time to move on...

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