# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Building/Structure Mapping >  [SCRAPPED]Temple of Tomival (Moon God)

## Steel General

OK, here it is in it's very early stages.

Tomival is the God of the Moon, the Night, the Stars and Lycanthropes (need to work this aspect in somehow). See the entry in the CWBP WIKI.

The main temple is similar to a planetarium where the ceiling opens up so the night sky can be viewed (Weather permitting). Inside, the walls, ceiling and floor are painted  as a starfield and it can be very disconcerting to those not used to it. Each of the steps leading up to the altar are lit from underneath (similar to the floor lights in a theater. The symbol in the center is called a Moon or Lunar Cross and is Tomival's symbol.

I'm wide open to suggestions, etc. I've already scrapped several different versions.

FYI...The image is large so you may need to zoom in quite abit to see any real detail.

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## ravells

the disc has great promise but the repeating texture is showing on the background!

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## Ascension

I really like the concept for the floor and the way it has been drawn makes it feel like the central dais is floating in space.  The blue marble is very rich looking as well.  As for ideas on what to put in...well, I'm more of a big picture guy and leave the details to those more suited for the task  :Smile:  but I'd put in a bunch of moons floating around the edges so that they could display lunar phases with orbit paths and one could stand on the dais and contemplate the moon.  The I'd put in 4 arched bridges at the compass points to add to the sense of "falling into space".  Some constellations as well.  I'm sure some other stuff will hit me in time but I hope this helps for now.

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## Steel General

@Ravs - Thanks...The grassy background is just there temporarily, it bothers my eyes when the background is a big solid mass of color so I usually throw some kind of texture on it to help break it up some. I'll either remove it or re-render it at a larger scale later on to get rid of the 'tiling'.

@Ascension - Thanks...any suggestions are helpful (whrther I use them or not  :Smile: ) it helps get the 'old creative juices flowing' again. 

I thought about putting the whole thing in the middle of a pool so it looks like its 'floating', but haven't come up with anything I really like. Not sure whether I want to add any more to the floor of the temple itself (I'll give it a try though) - I have more 'structures' to add though with the changes I made not sure how I'm going to connect them together.

Heck I may not even take this much further - I have some other ideas I may try.

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## Gamerprinter

SG, I've been wracking my brain to discover a means of conveying the idea of the lycanthropic twist. I'm drawing a blank. Maybe two interlocking circles with the moon at center of temple also located at the place the circles overlap and an outline of a wolf's head in one circle and the outline of a human figure in the other. But that does seem to fit into your design as a whole.

I couldn't come up with an idea that's cohesive with the sum of the parts...

Otherwise, looking good!

GP

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## Steel General

GP - Thanks, appreciate the effort and comments.

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## RPMiller

To take GP's idea one step further to convey the lycanthropic twist how about having a wolf's head looking at a man's head on the platform behind the moon symbols. Do it as if it was a constellation with the stars giving the outlines of the faces.

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## Steel General

That's a good idea RP, i'll have to give that a shot - though a lot will depend on finding a good outline of a wolf head - one that doesn't look to 'cartoony'.

I could possibly put the outlines outside of the left and right crescents of the symbol on the main altar...hmmm. Both ideas definitely have merit.

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## Redstar

SG - Have you looked into any of the imagery around the Roman god Janus and the Temple of Janus? He was the god of doorways, gates beginnings and ends, but his symbol was often depicted as two faces joined at the skulls.  

A quick GIS found this: http://www.graphicwitness.org/group/nastwar2.jpg

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## RPMiller

I like that idea. If you can wait until later tonight, I believe I can give you a nice render of a human skull/face and a wolf. I'm not sure if I have a wolf skull though. I would have to look through my stuff.

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## Ascension

For a simple icon you could use a human hand with a cut-out of a paw in the palm.

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## Steel General

Redstar - Actually I hadn't, been mostly looking at 'Egyptian' stuff. Tomival (if you read the description of his main avatar in the WIKI or on my website) bears a close resemblance to MoonKnight/Khonshu from the Marvel comic. I did do some Google searches on Moon gods, temples, etc. but didn't notice any reference for Janus. Thanks for the info.

RP - that would be great, thank you! I'm in no big rush, lots of other things I can do on this while you try and get something put together.

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## RPMiller

Still looking for a wolf... Here is a head. I can do a skull if you want to go that route. In fact...

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## Steel General

Ascension - Didn't see your post until now (since it looks like I posted less than a minute later), the Hand/Paw idea is a good one too, have to try that. Maybe a blue hand with a star field paw out of the palm.

RP - If you can find the appropriate wolf skull that would be great to have the extra option, if not no biggie - I appreciate you taking the time to do what you have - it looks great.

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## Gamerprinter

SG, woohoo, I just knocked you into triple digits of REP and a second pip!

I like your lycanthropic twist and look forward to seeing which way you take this. Plus I owed you some REP and noticed you sitting at 95.

Just what my +5 Vorpal Katana can now bestow, this was my best shot at using my new weapon! Congrats!

GP

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## Steel General

Thanks GP!

Lot's of us hitting the 100 rep milestone lately.  :Smile: 

I need to get back to this - started it at work and took the .psd home but haven't touched it since, I really want to finish this one.

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## RPMiller

SG, I found both a couple models that might work. I'll see if I can do renders of both this evening. I don't think I have a wolf skull though, but I will keep looking.

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## Steel General

OK cool! Don't worry about the wolf skull if you can't find one, and please don't go out of your way to do this.

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## RPMiller

NP, gives me a reason to tinker, and the renders usually don't take any time at all.

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## Steel General

OK, here's an idea I came up with for it - something fairly simple but hopefully conveys the idea of Lycanthropy...

Edit: Attached .PSD file in case anyone was interested. - Boy, this does weird things with .PSD file when you attach them.

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## Ascension

Snagged.  That's a keeper.

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## Steel General

If you'd like I can probably post the .PSD on Monday - that way you can modify it to your needs.

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## Ascension

Na, that's alright.  I snag a lot of things just for the inspiration they afford me in my thinking.  I like to make my worlds very dark (duh) but not from just the visual standpoint...I use lycans, vamps, demons, angels, etc more often than slime molds and beholders.  This snag will give me something new to chew on, so thanks man.  :Smile:

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## RPMiller

> OK, here's an idea I came up with for it - something fairly simple but hopefully conveys the idea of Lycanthropy...



I like it! Very simple and straight forward.

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## Steel General

Still looking forward to see what you come up with RP.

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## RPMiller

Ok, so I played around a bit and here is what I came up with:

Found a skull:



Wolf head:



Werewolf head:



The "actual werewolf" low res:

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## Steel General

That is some cool stuff RP, the wolf skull especially looks fantastic. 

I can surely find some way to use this...or I am sure as hell gonna try!

Thanks much, really appreciate you taking the time.

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## RPMiller

You are most welcome. I should mention that if you want the raw images in white so that you can color them how you want I would be happy to put them up as well.

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## Steel General

OK, here's a bit of an update. This has a crappy version of my Lycanthropy sigil on it, still need to try a version using the stuff RP came up with.

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## RPMiller

I like the moon phases idea. Although the symbol at the bottom seems some how out of place maybe if I knew more about how the cycle worked with the mythology it would make more sense.

To me what I am seeing is the symbol at the top represents when the lycanthropes are at full power and the symbol at the bottom represents when they are weakest, but than the weakest symbol is used in the middle as well which confuses that meaning.

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## Ascension

Ah yeah, I see what yer gettin at there RP.  I'd use the 8 phases but put the full moon at the top with the wolf claw in it (in black) then at the bottom use the no moon (white ring) with a white hand and keep the thing in the middle.

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## RPMiller

There you go. Definitely like that idea.

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## Steel General

The symbol at the 'bottom' (the entrance) is Tomival's symbol, same as on the main altar. Didn't really think about it's affect regarding the phases and lycanthrope symbol. I put it there more or less for decoration. Hmmmm, it might just need to go.

I like your idea too Ascension - welp, back to the proverbial drawing board. Though I still am working on a way to use RP's stuff somehow.

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## Steel General

OK, I've pretty much revamped the whole thing.

Did a couple of attempts with the skulls RP created, but I think the paw and hand work better.

Now I've hit a wall, been staring at this thing for 2 days and not a single good idea has come to me as to what else I can/should add. 

I really would rather not add anything to the inside as that takes away from the whole 'planetarium' idea. I suppose I could put some statues or something around the outside, but there's not much room. Thought about changing the background so that it looks like its sitting on the top of a hill or mountain, not sure whether I like that idea or not.

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## RPMiller

Are the moon phases on top of pedestals or are the part of the floor? Currently they do not appear to be part of the floor and look to be on pedestals or something.

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## Steel General

They are supposed to be part of the floor...hmmm maybe they need an inner shadow/glow.

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## RPMiller

I would go with an emboss myself. You might want to add some noise over the whole surface to give it more of a "used" look. You might even consider breaking out some grunge brushes to "dirty" it up just a bit. Unless of course you are going for the "recently built" look.

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## Steel General

Great suggestions RP, I'll have to give them a try.

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## Steel General

OK, after several days of trying numerous ideas I'm about ready to surrender on this one. Nothing seems to look good, and I'm fresh out of ideas.

I did make a few minor changes;

1) Added the name of the 'temple'
2) Added a door - it would help if you could get into the darn thing, it's meant to be somewhat subtle and not overly obvious
3) I "grunged up" and added a texture to the Moon Phases

I initially had such high hopes for this, but now I'm just banging my head against the proverbial wall. *Ugh!!*

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## RPMiller

Do you have the psd file to post up? I think if you make a couple different filter tweaks you may be able to get something a bit more to your liking. What is probably bothering you is that everything looks to be reversed. For example, what you want to be a wall looks like a step down.

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## Steel General

RP - unfortunately the .PSD file is way to big to post (40+ MB RAR or 50+ MB ZIP).

It isn't all that uncommon for me to run into 'blocks' like this - it happens all the time and usually the best thing I can do is just walk away from it - so to speak, work on something else for awhile and come back to it later.

I have some other ideas I can work on in the mean time.

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## Steel General

*Brings out his Wand of Thread Ressurection*

OK, I started this late last year and got frustrated with it and shoved it aside. I really would like to finish it, but after looking at it again I'm still stuck as to where to take it from here.

Any ideas/suggestions/etc. would be greatly appreciated.

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## Gidde

Maybe you could add some trees/etc. around it for a sense of scale. It looks almost flat, as if it were an outdoor shrine and people would stand on it.

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## Steel General

I probably should have been more specific. To me it seems that something is missing from the shrine/temple it self. But I just can't seem to put my finger on it.

The grass is just there as a place holder of sorts, I can't stand looking at a solid colored background when I'm working on something. If I can ever get past this 'block I'll replace that with some sort of rocky/rough terrain.

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## torstan

I'm not sure the grass background is the way to go - how about having it as an island in the middle of a lake? That might look cool. Then you can have a moored boat (perhaps some form of weird magically powered boat that doesn't need sails) to give a sense of scale?

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## Steel General

I had considered that at one point, it's worth re-visiting.

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## torstan

Another possibility is to get the grunge brushes out and dirty it up (it looks a little pristine at the moment!). Also, a bit f mist would look cool. If it's a moon temple, perhaps we should see it at night.

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## Steel General

Those are all good ideas Torstan..thanks!

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## Ascension

What's missing for me is any sense of depth.  The black color could be replaced with various shades of gray and then you can get your shadows and highlights in.

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## Juggernaut1981

The "nothingness" black, while thematically awesome is visually not so great IMO.

It seems to be the best point to put in a starfield or something in there...

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## Steel General

There is a starfield, though maybe it needs a bit more.

hmmm... the more I look at this the more I think maybe I should've just left this on the proverbial scrap-heap. *shrugs* I'll let it percolate a bit longer.

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## Juggernaut1981

Other random thoughts:

#1 Are the moon phases supposed to be "cross paired" or "in sequence"... if they were supposed to be sequenced then they're off... (swap one of the diagonal pairs and it works, I'd suggest 1-right of the paw and 1-left of the hand be swapped)

#2 The "base platform shadow" seems to make it "fuzz/blur out".  Putting a highlighting edge on the bottom level of the platform may help make it feel better.

#3 Intersperse the moon phases with statues maybe?

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## Tom_Cardin

Inspiring stuff coming up...Well it inspired me to do some quick 3D modelling...hopefully looking at it from different perspectives will fire you up!

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## Steel General

Thanks both of you, all great ideas.

I played around with some ideas last night but it all looked like crap to me so I scrapped them.

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## Steel General

After much deliberation and more than a half dozen different attempts to finish, I officially am scrapping this one.

Thanks again to everyone who made suggestions, etc. 

If someone wants to 'run with it' feel free.

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## Amazon_warrior

Shame!  It was lookin' cool too.  (Although I noticed the out-of-sequence phases too.)

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