# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Writing, Stories, Linguistics, Toponymy and other wordy stuff ! >  What would a cartographer's notes be like?

## sarawinter

I am building a fantasy world where one of the main characters gets ahold of a beautiful dwarven-made map. 
The remarkable thing about this map is that it is not made by a cartographer, but rather by an artist who encountered a dying cartographer at the opening of a great mine. The cartographer gave his notes to the artist, also a dwarf, who was so fascinated with the mine and the treasure that was said could be found there that he was inspired to make the map. 
It is not necessarily the most accurate map, but it serves the purpose of helping the main characters find the hidden treasure.

At the moment I am trying to figure out what the map might look like. To help me do that I am also trying to figure out what the notes that the artist was given were like.
Were they a bunch of numbers and codes that represented measurements of rooms and tunnels?Were they carefully drawn sketches of the architecture?Were they rough sketches of an actual map?

Since I have no idea how a cartographer works, I don't know what type of material the artist would have been given to work with. 
Is there anyone who can give me some tips?

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## Diamond

I think in a situation like this, the dying guy was probably more of an artisan/architect; I always think 'cartographer' as more of someone who maps natural landforms.  So cryptic measurements, notes, careful measurements, any and all could apply.

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## Falconius

I would assume the artist was given a rough sketch of the map frankly, probably with a lot of edits and scratched out bits, or perhaps inaccurate bits that he didn't bother indicating were inaccurate as he planned on dropping them in further revisions.  There also would be notes of anything that bore interest on what the goals of his map were, elevations changes, temperatures, water flow or moisture who knows?

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## HINDSIGHT

Im thinking in the same line as Falconius.
I imgaine the map would have symbols that the artist didn´t understand, perhaps he turned them into ornaments. There would be multiple corrections, again something the artist might have misinterpreted. When copying other peoples work it is very tempting to "correct" something, so that it adheres to your logic. When it comes to measuring things, there is a great selection of obsolete units here,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...of_measurement  Perhaps he figured out a way to measure depth of caverns by using echoes or something similar. 
Øystein

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## Greason Wolfe

A couple of other questions you might want to consider....

How old is the map? Can the characters read what is written on the map other than the "picture" stuff? What units of measure are used on the map and are they still in use by the characters?

Like the idea though. I suppose one way to approach it would be to have a cartographer (here perhaps) make you a sketchy sort of map with notes on it (something of their own most likely) and then hand it off to an artist to interpret (maybe yourself if you are an artist). Don't know if that helps, but maybe.

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## rdanhenry

Actual mines are very three-dimensional and rarely, if ever, in neat "levels" like a dungeon mapped out on graph paper. A three-dimensional model is usually much clearer than any flat representation could be. Notes would include not just lengths, widths, and heights, but a lot of angular measurements of turning, ascent, and descent. Sketches would likely be less of the layout than of particular features, such as carvings or fossils. Dwarves are typically portrayed as having living areas dug in near the actually mining, so this area could easily be level and orderly, easily mapped on a flat surface. There could be geological notes (including sites promising for future mining) and possibly a cross-sectional illustration of the various layers of rock at the mine location. There could be some Dwarven "dad jokes" * in the notes as the fellow kept himself amused.
* - possibly incomprehensible to a non-Dwarf, at least one without a good knowledge of Dwarven culture and/or mining technique and/or geology.

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## sarawinter

Thank you all for the really great answers!

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## sarawinter

I would really like to find a way to capture the 3D environment, but I am finding it very difficult to describe or figure out what a map like that would look like.

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## sarawinter

> Like the idea though. I suppose one way to approach it would be to have a cartographer (here perhaps) make you a sketchy sort of map with notes on it (something of their own most likely) and then hand it off to an artist to interpret (maybe yourself if you are an artist). Don't know if that helps, but maybe.


That would be really awesome! I would give it a try since a do a bit of artwork in my free time. But on the other hand I have no experience with dwarven craftsmanship... I just know that it would be a magnificent thing to hold in my hand  :Smile:

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## sarawinter

> Im thinking in the same line as Falconius.
> I imgaine the map would have symbols that the artist didn´t understand, perhaps he turned them into ornaments. There would be multiple corrections, again something the artist might have misinterpreted. When copying other peoples work it is very tempting to "correct" something, so that it adheres to your logic. When it comes to measuring things, there is a great selection of obsolete units here,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...of_measurement  Perhaps he figured out a way to measure depth of caverns by using echoes or something similar. 
> Øystein


Thanks so much for the list! 

I was also thinking of some sort of echo-tool to capture the dimensions of the spaces... That should not be too far-fetched for dwarves to have invented.

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## sarawinter

Do any of you know of an on line tool that would help me envision a 3D mine environment?

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## Falconius

An online tool?  No.  Blender yes.  A few years ago I wondered how modern underground mines are mapped and it turns out they pay many thousands of dollars for proprietary 3D mapping solutions.

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## sarawinter

> An online tool?  No.  Blender yes.  A few years ago I wondered how modern underground mines are mapped and it turns out they pay many thousands of dollars for proprietary 3D mapping solutions.


That's too bad  :Frown:

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## Falconius

Just means I don't know of any, doesn't mean there aren't any.

Blender is free and there is a ton of learning available for it.  It's also a great tool to have in your arsenal in any case.  Is there a reason it has to be online?

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## sarawinter

> Just means I don't know of any, doesn't mean there aren't any.
> 
> Blender is free and there is a ton of learning available for it.  It's also a great tool to have in your arsenal in any case.  Is there a reason it has to be online?


It does not have to be online, I'm just after something that is easy to use. I guess Blender could be an alternative. I will see if I can find some tutorials on YouTube.  :Smile:

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