# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  J's Inkman Experiment thread

## J.Edward

I wanted to start a thread where I put up stuff that I was working on where the point is to try new things [for me] and get feedback on what doesn't work, and if things do work, then any feedback there as well. These maps are not going to be finished maps per se. Some may get to that level but most are going to be me attempting to do certain things I'm not really familiar with.

So to start...
I was inspired by Max's Gh'orna map, as well as some others. I haven't ever really done any maps with mountains in that style - sort of 3d perspective I guess. So I decided to finally try some like that. I sat around yesterday and drew up a few and then scanned them in.
I am trying to get faster as well as improve skill, so I was trying to paint them along with the pencil lines to save time, instead of redrawing all the lines. That is what I would normally do. The first one was really quick and came out well. Pencil sketch and then painted version.
 

These worked well. 
The next one not so much. I didn't draw out or really plan the land, just the mountains, and that is biting me in the ass at the moment.
I tried a number of new things with this one. Some may work. Many do not. The names are just placeholders as this was not really a planned map.
I don't do larger region maps much either so I feel I'm encountering problems I'm not used to. 
So the pencil sketch and then the color where I am now.
 

I'm reasonably happy with the mountains and the concept/layout. I liked the perspective on it.
I'm not sure about the forests. There are 2 types. The first experiment is up around Shelva. I did those first.
Then I tried it a bit differently with the one near Lamen, then the ones down on the southeast landmass. They seem better.
I liked the hills in the Agis-Deris area on the southeast landmass.

There are parts I like and parts I don't. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do for plains areas and how I would depict other features.
Any feedback, positive and negative is welcome. Thanks.

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## arsheesh

Well my hat is off to you sir!  For just messing around these turned out very well indeed.  You've got a distinctive style J. which I really admire.  Keep it up man.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## J.Edward

Thanks arsheesh. Some things I pick up quick. Others take me longer.
Contrary to what you might think I still have much to learn.  :Wink:

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## Wingshaw

These experimental/casual mapping threads are becoming quite popular. I think they're great.

I think your islands of Paloket drawing is very good. The water, grassland and cities are very good. The mountains are well-drawn, but my only criticism is that they do not look rugged enough. The sides seem too smooth, and the ridge along the top too even.

On Tol'imen, I think the mountains on Der'imen are the best you've done, but still need work. I also think the hills and forests are very well done on that island. The knockout feature, though, in my opinion, is the plateau feature near Algena. I also really like the perspective, with the inclusion of sky above.

Overall, it is all really good, and I am keen to see more of your experiments here in the future.

THW

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## J.Edward

THW - Yep, I see what you mean on the ridge [Paloket]. That was my first one and I didn't notice that. I will definitely keep that in mind.
As an experiment, it was helpful and instructive. It does take more thought to get a more natural, believable mountain ridge line. When I look at it now [Tol'Imen] the mountains seem overly large. The sketches were quick. Maybe 10 minutes on Tol'imen. Perhaps 20 mintues on Paloket. That is definitely a problem with using the pencil sketch for the painting - you can't really change it once you commit to painting it. I'll have to think about that a bit more.

I didn't even think about the plateau. That was a bit of an after thought. The land needed features and I didn't have any planned. I'm glad you liked that. See, that's part of what's so helpful about getting feedback. Thanks THW.  :Smile: 

edit - Ya know, as painful as it might be to redo the whole piece, I might redraw the ridgelines on Paloket. Then I'll have to repaint that but it might be worth it.

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## J.Edward

I redrew the ridge line but I'm not sure if it is enough.

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## Wingshaw

It's a massive improvement. The sides are still a bit smooth (especially on the western part), but that might just be a personal opinion.

THW

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## Chick

I agree with THW, if you ignore the ridge line and look just at the sides, both sides are pretty flat for the entire length, like two inclined planes leaning against each other.

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## Ilanthar

I really enjoy your drawing and coloring! I'm gonna keep a close eye on this thread.

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## J.Edward

I can see what you all are talking about. I may go back and make changes at a later point. 
But moving forward, I tried to take those comments into account as I work on other pieces.
Thanks for the feedback.
Today's piece is an island as well. A caldera. 
I had tried for a commission where they wanted a map of a volcano island. 
Didn't get it as someone else already spoke to them.

Might I say that the map request subforum is a feeding frenzy. If you don't see the request early - forget it.  :Wink: 
Anyway, got me thinking about doing it anyway. So this is the pencil sketch, on 8.5x11 paper. This will definitely get some color.
If I feel like it's worth it I may redraw it all in PS. Not sure at the moment.
The Isle of Shab'Ra'Tan

There will probably be a story to go with this one.

edit - Oh, the shading will be done in PS. I didn't do much there so if I needed to redraw anything it would be easier to do that.

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## Wingshaw

That latest picture is fantastic! The rock formations, the ridge of the caldera, the sheer coastal cliffs; it is all masterfully done. Can't wait to see it coloured. It still does not have the ruggedness of a mountain range, but then I don't think a caldera like this needs to be so rugged.

When you draw these, are they all pen on paper? Do you have a method you could explain?

THW

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## J.Edward

THW - They are almost all pencil on paper. Sometimes I'll do them in pen but only if that is the end result. If I'm going to color them I use pencil.
Um, well, I guess after I finish the color version of the caldera I could try to throw together a bit of explanation. I don't follow any rigid process. 
Though I do tend to do some similar things when coloring pencil works.
I'm doing the color right now and I think I'll be done by tonight. So possibly tomorrow when I put it up I can get to that.

As a side note, you and chick both think that the mountains should be much more rugged. 
Can you link to a map that does this in a way you think is rugged enough?
And again, thanks for the feedback.  :Smile:

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## Sapiento

Excellent piece. A very fine composition.

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## Wingshaw

> THW - They are almost all pencil on paper. Sometimes I'll do them in pen but only if that is the end result. If I'm going to color them I use pencil.
> Um, well, I guess after I finish the color version of the caldera I could try to throw together a bit of explanation. I don't follow any rigid process. 
> Though I do tend to do some similar things when coloring pencil works.
> I'm doing the color right now and I think I'll be done by tonight. So possibly tomorrow when I put it up I can get to that.
> 
> As a side note, you and chick both think that the mountains should be much more rugged. 
> Can you link to a map that does this in a way you think is rugged enough?
> And again, thanks for the feedback.


I am surprised that pencil drawings scan so well. I've always found that the contrast and brightness get all messed up when I try to scan a pencil drawing.

I'll give two examples of rugged mountains, one by me and the other by Max:
Mine: http://www.cartographersguild.com/al...chmentid=62473
Max's: http://www.cartographersguild.com/al...chmentid=68838

I make no claim that these are the best examples, but they are the first to come to mind. Clearly they have very different styles (personally, I like mine more; no disrespect intended to Max) and methods: I believe Max almost always works with a graphics tablet, whereas I, like you, use pen and pencil.

I spent a little while looking at your mountains from the second most recent drawing (like I said, the caldera looks great as a non-rugged formation, in my opinion). A few things come to mind:
--the sides of your mountains look fairly straight, like an upside down V-shape. In both mine and Max's, the sides of the mountain curve inwards, so the slope is shallow at the bottom, and steeper as you go up (shading has a bit of a role here, too);
--your mountains appear as single ridges, whereas mine and his have numerous spurs and outcrops coming from them, and valleys between. I think, from this observation, that your mountains suit a more local-scale map (hence the caldera being perfect) whereas the ones I did are more realistic for something on a larger scale.
--the shadows are more mixed on mine and Max's than they are on yours: on yours, all the shadows seem to be on one side of the mountains, whereas on mine, there are shadows and highlights on both sides, marking areas where lumps of rock on the lit side are casting shadows, and where spurs on the shadowed side are catching glints of light (mine actually isn't quite as clear on this regard as I would like it to be; Max's might be a better example of this).

Hope that's helpful.

THW

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## Sapiento

> I am surprised that pencil drawings scan so well. I've always found that the contrast and brightness get all messed up when I try to scan a pencil drawing.
> 
> I'll give two examples of rugged mountains, one by me and the other by Max:
> Mine: http://www.cartographersguild.com/al...chmentid=62473
> Max's: http://www.cartographersguild.com/al...chmentid=68838
> 
> I make no claim that these are the best examples, but they are the first to come to mind. Clearly they have very different styles (personally, I like mine more; no disrespect intended to Max) and methods: I believe Max almost always works with a graphics tablet, whereas I, like you, use pen and pencil.
> 
> I spent a little while looking at your mountains from the second most recent drawing (like I said, the caldera looks great as a non-rugged formation, in my opinion). A few things come to mind:
> ...


The caldera map has a different approach for portraying mountains, so IMO your suggestions and comparisons with your or Max's (or mine) mountain style is not very appropriate - it's like comparing apples and oranges. 
Not all mountains are rugged with a zigzag ridge everywhere, the same goes for the sides of the mountains.
The caldera looks like a drawing of a real existing place, what I could not always say from most of my maps - mostly mountains or other geographic elements are drawn with some artistic freedom that not necessarily catches reality to 100%. After all, maps are art.

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## Wingshaw

> The caldera map has a different approach for portraying mountains, so IMO your suggestions and comparisons with your or Max's (or mine) mountain style is not very appropriate - it's like comparing apples and oranges. 
> Not all mountains are rugged with a zigzag ridge everywhere, the same goes for the sides of the mountains.
> The caldera looks like a drawing of a real existing place, what I could not always say from most of my maps - mostly mountains or other geographic elements are drawn with some artistic freedom that not necessarily catches reality to 100%. After all, maps are art.


I agree. I offered those maps in response to J.Edwards request for alternative examples. Everyone's style is different; all mountains are different. Some mountain ranges are relatively smooth, but many others are jagged and rough. I think it is justified therefore to encourage J.Edward with a more rugged mountain style, so he can do both.

THW

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## J.Edward

So here's the color version of Shab'Ra'Tan


I'm pretty pleased with how this turned out but as always I welcome any feedback. This one is unlikely to change but you might notice something I didn't.
As regards the previous feedback - THW - thanks for all that. It's interesting that you used Max's Gh'orna as an example. I stated at the beginning that this was what inspired me to do this process. I will add that I don't think Max's is as 'rugged' as you would say. Look at the ridge line - it's more uniform than my second attempt on Paloket.
That's no dig at Max either. I love that Gh'orna map - just as it is.  :Smile: 
As regards your map - it's a very different set of mountains to be sure. I do believe that the local versus regional thing does play into it. And when I am doing a larger regional map I will have to take that into account.

All that being said, I do agree with Sapiento in regards. I've hiked and climbed many mountains. Photographed even more. There are many mountain/hill types that do not follow that model. I think maybe the area one is from can influence one's view on things. I'm from central PA and there are ranges here that differ from most across the world.
Long straight ranges that run for miles with zero zigzag. They're more humped or domed. I've encountered a lot in New York state that are more domed.
I'm sure that affects my view on mountain and hill shapes generally. I do try different forms and shapes.
I try all sorts of things. You are only seeing a minute fraction of the work that I do. That's kind of why I started this thread.  :Wink: 
I do a lot of maps but many don't go all the way to a finished map. There's just not enough time in a day, week, year, etc. to complete them.

Later, if I have time I might post some examples of some mountains and islands that I liked and used as inspiration in the past. There are some very interesting shapes and forms in northen Africa and throughout the middle east that I like. And many cool islands with mountains that may surprise you.

All that aside, I will be redoing the Tol'Imen lands. The ranges just don't look right. And I will give it a go at something more varied and rugged.  :Wink:

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## Abu Lafia

No remarks, just here to say: WOOOOOOWW! My mind is ready for immersion  :Wink: .  The perspective labelling of the Sea is just the icing on the (amzing) cake...

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## Ilanthar

That caldera map is awesome! My only nitpick : I would like to see more easily the details of that temple of magma  :Smile: .

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## arsheesh

Damn.  That is fine work Inkman.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## CaptainJohnHawk

Incredible work. You really get my imagination working with these pieces. I love the perspective you choose. Keep it coming

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## J.Edward

Abu Lafia - Thank you sir.  :Very Happy:  That sea labeling was my last bit. Had to redo it a number of times to get it right.
Glad you like that.  :Wink: 
Thanks Ilanthar. No worries. That's what the adventure map is for, when I can get to it.  :Wink: 
Arsheesh - Thank you sir.  :Smile:  I am trying to step it up this year. Trying to do more and put more into my work.
Cpt. John - Thanks. That is what I like to hear.  :Smile:  I love the thought that my work can have that effect. 
That's how it always was for me seeing new stuff from all the artists who did work for TSR, then Wizards, and ICE, Palladium, etc.
To think that my work inspires the imagination---Awesome.  :Very Happy:  And I will. I have a load of plans for 2015. Lots of new stuff in the works.

THW - I will try to get to some breakdown of process when I can. I have to go do some client work atm but will when I can. 
Cheers and thanks all.

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## Wingshaw

> I think maybe the area one is from can influence one's view on things. I'm from central PA and there are ranges here that differ from most across the world.


Oh, definitely. I'm from Australia and we don't really have any mountains at all. I think we once had the tallest mountains in the world, but time has eroded them down to just little bumps, now.




> THW - I will try to get to some breakdown of process when I can. I have to go do some client work atm but will when I can.


Don't stress it, J. If and when you're ready. I know that it can be hard trying to describe how to draw, anyway. I always think it is a kinda intuitive thing, and so learning and practice can only get you so far. Your drawing style is fantastic, though, and, frankly, if you decide not to go down the rugged mountains path and stick with what you're doing, I'm not going to complain, and I doubt anyone else will, either.

THW

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## ChickPea

This is utterly gorgeous!

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## - Max -

Excellent stuff J. keep it going  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

THW - I'm still going to try some alternate mountains on Tol'Imen. And some process info. 
However, I just started in on the monthly challenge so my hands are full so to speak.  :Wink: 

Thanks ChickPea.  :Smile: 
Max - Thank you sir. There will be more after the monthly challenge. I have another couple cities I started that I knew could not make it into that challenge.
As a side note Max, is there a thread that tells me how to do an image in my sig, like how you have Max's Maps in yours? That could be fun to try.

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## J.Edward

I had told TheHoarseWhisperer earlier that I'd talk a bit about my workflow but hadn't had time till now.
So I'll just jump right in.
I can't really help much as far as drawing in pencil goes. That's really just something you have to work at over time.
But, the more you do it the faster you get. That's pretty important if this is how you work. I draw a lot. Sometimes just practice drawings that I have no intention of using. Sometimes though those drawings do get used. Paloket and Tol'Imen were like that. I was just practicing.

Once I have a drawing I scan it in. I usually mess around with the levels at this stage to try to make sure the light pencil lines will show.
I would rather the paper look a little dark than have light pencil lines not showing. If the paper gets scanned a bit dark I will clean all of that up first in PS.
At this point I often do this stage - I will duplicate the pencil layer. We'll call those layer1 and layer2. On layer2 I will change the layer blend to multiply. I may or may not change the opacity.
From here I start doing color layers. I usually start with big base layers that I can use as quick selection areas using ctrl+left click on the layer thumbnail. That can really help speed things up. Also, when working within a selection I usually hide the selection edge. To do that, go to View - Show - and uncheck selection edges. It makes it nicer to work without seeing that selection edge.

In order of layers, water layers are always at the bottom. I often do a base color layer for water and then a second and maybe third layer over that. The second layer will often be set to multiply and will be dark. The third will be set to overlay or soft light and will be light highlights and such.
It is like this for the next sets of layers. Next is main basic land color. Then Grass, Trees, and last hills/mountains.
For more recent maps I have been doing shadow and highlight layers as well, for the shadows of the mountains and such.

When working this way, almost every layer is set to something other than normal, as normal is opaque and I need these layers to still show the under drawing.
Eventhough I have the top layer as drawing layer 2 set to multiply. It probably sounds strange and convoluted but that's how I work.  :Wink: 

I do it this way because it gives me a lot of control, options and non-destructive ways to get to a color/texture that I like. And if I need to change something later it isn't so difficult to do.
As an example, Paloket [minus the text layers] had 10 layers. Shab'Ra'Tan had 15 layers. Frosthaven had 16 layers, though it could have had about 4-5 less layers. Sometimes I will do line work for different areas of a piece on different layers. That's if the drawing requires more line work.

Well, that was pretty long-winded. Not sure if that's useful to anyone but there it is.  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

I haven't done any updates here for a while, even though I have been doing other experiments.
So I am doing some today. 
A good while back after viewing Vorropohaiah's Atlas Elyden thread I had thought of doing a stereo map. Then I started playing around with Gprojector, which is so cool, and started trying out some different maps. The map itself is nothing special but I enjoyed attempting this and will probably do more in that direction at a later date.
This map is just a test for concept really.


Then I did some more tree elements. Still trying to find something I can use. 
All the elements I make I never end up using because they just never fit what I need.
I'm also throwing in some of the Middle Earth icons I did. I need to do more top down icons. They're rather useful.
 

 

Then I was working on trying out some concepts for caves and rough dungeons, as I had some work coming up that would be featuring that sort of thing.
I did some quick rough versions that were helpful in developing a style that I am using to complete some current work.


I'm always working on too many things at the same time and I tend to forget about stuff I did earlier.
So I'm sure there's more to post when I find it or remember it.  :Wink:

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## Chashio

And all so cool and inspiring.  :Smile:  I think I like your tree drawings the best, but you know me. It's all very nice, though.

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## J.Edward

Ah, thank you Chashio.  :Smile:  Yes, trees. I've spent many years working on drawing trees. So much still to learn.
I should dig around my computer... there was a thing i was doing a while back of trying to make hand drawn forests in sections that could be placed like elements.
It sort of worked but needed to be more defined and polished.
I'll look around for that. I think you'd like it.

Check back later today or tomorrow if you're online. It should be up.

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## Chashio

Hahaha  :Smile:  I've also thought of doing forest sections before, and was actually thinking about it again this afternoon. And something similar with ocean elements, too. Too funny  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

Chashio - here's the stuff I was talking about.
The first 2 are the local and regional sizes, relatively speaking. The regional really should be to a bit different scale.
 
And then an early test I did with them. It's a really rough degenerate forest but it conveys the concept. 
I did it quite a while back. I've improved since.  :Wink:  Two versions in progress.
 

And then some more map icons. Iso this time. I used some of these for the Northlands.
They worked out fairly well, though I had to downsize them.
 

And last, a little color scale for a topo map I am working on.
I have since changed the colors as I found a better, more harmonious color scheme.
Plus 2 samples of that topo.
  
Guess that makes up for not posting much in a while.  :Very Happy: 

edit - apparently I took too long to post and you slipped past me.  :Surprised:

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## Abu Lafia

Hey John, great you revived this wonderful thread! Thanks a lot for showing these fantastic "by-products" of your work, there's so much to learn from it.  :Smile:

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## Chashio

Very neat!

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## Chick

> It's a really rough degenerate forest but it conveys the concept.


Man, I wish I could draw that rough and degenerately  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

Thanks Abu. I didn't think I would have such a big gap in time. 
I thought I would be updating the thread every few weeks with new experiments.

I thought you might enjoy it Chashio. I had some other tree/forest things but i couldn't find them.
I'll have to keep looking.

chick - I just meant the dubious color and texturing.  :Wink: 
It was a bit of a frustrated day when I was working on that forest. It wasn't coming out as I had planned.

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## J.Edward

> Hahaha  I've also thought of doing forest sections before, and was actually thinking about it again this afternoon. And something similar with ocean elements, too. Too funny


I'd be interested in what you were going to do for the ocean elements.
I am thinking but can't figure what you'd be doing. Waves... islands... ? 
Did you do any of them?

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## Chashio

Stylized waves and sea creatures, mainly, but I haven't made any elements yet.  :Wink:  Though I have done some rough degenerate sketches in varying degrees of interest and thought about it a lot... I'll probably get around to actually doing it sometime soon, haha.

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## Sapiento

Beautiful designs, John!

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## ChickPea

I absolutely love your iso icons! Too bad you're not eligible for the current Lite Challenge, because I think you would have walked it with these.  :Very Happy: 

Fantastic and inspriational work, as always, J. 

Can I ask what you font you use. Is it one of the Fell typefaces? You used the same one on some of your LotR maps, I believe.

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## Meriba

A really great bunch of ideas nicely done. Congratulations J., spectacular!  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

Thank you Sap.  :Smile: 
Thanks as well ChickPea.  :Smile:  
I miss doing the lite challenges.  :Neutral:  They were fun.
I thought about putting something in anyway, even though I couldn't win.

The font in the LotR maps was 1550, which is totally free to use.
It's a great font but the uppercase J and U were problematic. The J looked more like an I and the U was a V.
I had a project for a client that needed those uppercase letters so I went to MyFont.com and finally bought some new fonts.

The one used here is called 1651 Alchemy by GLC. They do a number of great historic fonts.
The license wasn't costly - $22.50. Some are as low as $10. Others are high - $66 for the Garibaldi family of fonts [which was at a discount and still a bargain].
It's worth it sometimes to just go buy good fonts when you need them. Well, if you're doing commercial work it is.

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## J.Edward

Thanks Meriba.  :Smile:  You slipped past me while i was writing that last post.  :Wink:

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## ChickPea

Thanks for the info on the fonts. I do love a classic distressed serif font, you know, something that looks like it could come from Shakespeare's era. GLC have some really gorgeous fonts (I wasn't familiar with them before now). I have to admit I've only purchased fonts once in my life, and even then it was a whole family and it was discounted to a ridiculously cheap price. However, I'm strictly an amateur and don't need to worry about usage rights, so I tend to make do with the free stuff. 

I have to stop looking at MyFonts now before I'm tempted to break out my debit card ....  :Very Happy:

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## J.Edward

> I have to stop looking at MyFonts now before I'm tempted to break out my debit card ....


I know, right.  :Very Happy:  
I had to seriously reduce what I was going to get.
I love fonts and lettering so I had a hard time not getting more than I did.  :Wink:

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## Ilanthar

Fantastic work... And thanks a lot for sharing those!

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## J.Edward

Thanks Ilanthar.  :Smile:

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## CoolioTree

The mountain ranges seem to solid and close together to me. Is it a feature of the geography of the planet it's on? Other than that, awesome drawing! I really like the depth and relief.

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## J.Edward

> The mountain ranges seem to solid and close together to me. Is it a feature of the geography of the planet it's on? Other than that, awesome drawing! I really like the depth and relief.


Hey CoolioTree... which map/drawing are you referring to? 
The first few in the thread were my first experiments with perspective mountains.
I've improved since then.

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## CoolioTree

> Hey CoolioTree... which map/drawing are you referring to? 
> The first few in the thread were my first experiments with perspective mountains.
> I've improved since then.


I was referring to the Palo Mountains in Paloket. Sorry for the confusion.

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## J.Edward

> I was referring to the Palo Mountains in Paloket. Sorry for the confusion.


That's okay.
Yeah, that range was my first perspective drawn mountains and was not quite right.
I had meant to do a more broad redo of it but time just gets away from you sometimes.
By the way, welcome to the Guild.

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## J.Edward

And reviving my old zombie thread that just won't die....
Some little tidbits of stuff I've been messing about with.....
An older one...Nesindra 3 was the temp name


Then a crop from some of the coast of Borea, on another world


Then something I was working on today...
A bit of a crop from Algefar

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## ChickPea

I like that bottom one of Algefar. Line work is fantastic!

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## J.Edward

> I like that bottom one of Algefar. Line work is fantastic!


Thanks  :Smile:  I'm working on more of it as the evening wears on.
Maybe I'll have some more to  show tomorrow.

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## ThomasR

The fjords are glorious in Nesindra III ! Algefar is great too and the title ...

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## J.Edward

Thanks Thomas  :Smile: 
I did a little bit more on Algefar.
It is progressing, slowly.

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## Voolf

Wow, what a discovery for me. This thread is magnificent. Thank you for sharing this maps with us. They are all so gorgeous.

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## Mouse

OMG  :Surprised: 

You never cease to amaze...

Damn!  Its just _gorgeous_  :Very Happy:

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## - JO -

That's amazing... only little dots, and yet, you can tell if it's a forest, a plain, a hill...
What a talent !

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## Ilanthar

Glad to see that this incredible zombie is still moving  :Razz: !
Interesting maps. Algefar is a good example of your incredible sense of perspective and drawing skills  :Smile: .

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## Chashio

Beautiful stuff J!  :Smile:

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## damonjynx

Ok. I'm putting my pencils and stuff away now... John, you're not a cartographer, you're an artist, in every sense of the word, that draws maps.

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## J.Edward

> Wow, what a discovery for me. This thread is magnificent. Thank you for sharing this maps with us. They are all so gorgeous.


Thank you Voolf  :Smile:  Glad you are enjoying it.



> OMG 
> 
> You never cease to amaze...
> 
> Damn!  Its just _gorgeous_


Hehe, i aim to please, Mouse  :Wink: 



> That's amazing... only little dots, and yet, you can tell if it's a forest, a plain, a hill...
> What a talent !


Thanks JO  :Smile: 
There is a lot you can do with little squiggles or dots or lines.



> Glad to see that this incredible zombie is still moving !
> Interesting maps. Algefar is a good example of your incredible sense of perspective and drawing skills.


Arrrrggg... the zombie still crawls through the tomb of mappery!!!  :Razz: 
Thanks Ilanthar



> Beautiful stuff J!


Thanks chashio  :Smile: 



> Ok. I'm putting my pencils and stuff away now... 
> John, you're not a cartographer, you're an artist, in every sense of the word, that draws maps.


Ya gotta pull those pencils back out Damon, ya gotta.
There was a time I felt the same when looking at some people's work. For real.
Best thing - practice. Try new things. Practice. Work on core principles. Practice.
Oh, and practice. A lot. Draw as often as you possibly can. Best thing you can do.

And thank you very much. That was incredibly nice to read.  :Very Happy:

----------


## J.Edward

Okay... so, Chashio was showing her 5 minute sketch maps in a thread the other day and it got me thinking of doing the same. 
I did some 5 minute sketches, a 3 minute sketch, and a 2 minute sketch.
It was interesting what you think to draw under pressure. I went straight for the top down, initially.
Then I tried to get myself going in a perspective direction.

5 Minute sketches    ---   and then    ---   3 + 2 Minutes sketches

 > 

As a note.. I added a bit of a darker line on those 5 minute sketches, after the fact.

Now I will try to speed paint them... maybe. If I can stand it.  :Wink:

----------


## Chashio

No 1 Minutes?  :Razz: 
Those look fabulous.  :Smile:  Much cleaner with the line work than my technique, but... different styles. I've always liked shading.
It is interesting what you fall into; I definitely have a preference for the panoramic views and struggle more with top down, though I pull them out occasionally.
These are really nice J. That bottom one on the first page reminds me a bit of your Harlasea map for some reason.

----------


## J.Edward

Thanks Chashio  :Very Happy: 
Yeah, trying to break trends in your own methods can be tricky.
It's so easy to fall back into what you always do.

Ironically, I think I was thinking of Harlasea a bit at a point while doing that third one.  :Wink: 

Well, I took about 30 minutes to try to get some color going for the three 5 minute sketch ones, which I spent a bit more time on adding in some darker lines and such.
Perhaps an additional 1-6 minutes on each. Probably 1 minute on sketch 1, 4 minutes on sketch 2, and possibly 6 minutes on sketch 3 [though maybe more].

It is... okay, but, clearly not enough time for me to really get it going well.
Still, it is a good experiment to do just to see what you do and how you do it so you can look for ways to change, improve, add in new techniques, etc.
And it's fun.  :Wink: 

30 minutes color total for all 3 images together

----------


## ThomasR

I'd love my 30+ hours maps to look half as good as your 35ish experiments ...

----------


## Voolf

Wow, drawing this in such a short time....  this confirms my previous post in my thread, dont know if you read it J.E but i will paste it here.




> I know one person who appears to be not fed up by drawing buildings at all. Its a robot J.E. (all due respect). Just look at his last city commission. It is crazy ! I have an image of him doing this kind of maps within an hour before breakfast sketching something with one hand like he didn't even wanted to.


I was talking with Mouse and the city map i mentioned is Archensheen

----------


## Mouse

Aye - I remember you saying that  :Wink: 

John - I said this of Ilanthar the other day, and its just as applicable to you:

You are one of the Poets of Cartography we are lucky enough to mingle with on this forum on a daily basis  :Smile:

----------


## Chashio

> . . . . . . clearly not enough time for me to really get it going well.    . . .


Hmm... Yes. Clearly not.  :Razz:   :Very Happy:  [shakes head, chuckling at J.Edward's ridiculous comments]

Voolf, you're assuming he eats breakfast.  :Surprised:  I think he just recharges a battery or something.  :Razz:

----------


## Josiah VE

30 minutes for that colour!? Beautiful!

----------


## Voolf

> Voolf, you're assuming he eats breakfast.  I think he just recharges a battery or something.


Yeap, you got it right here.  :Smile:

----------


## J.Edward

> I'd love my 30+ hours maps to look half as good as your 35ish experiments ...


Well, it took me years and years to be able to draw this stuff in five minutes  :Wink: 



> Wow, drawing this in such a short time....  this confirms my previous post in my thread, dont know if you read it J.E but i will paste it here.
> I was talking with Mouse and the city map i mentioned is Archensheen


I hadn't seen that  :Surprised:  What thread was that in?
Hehe, more than one person has said about robots and machines..
I like robots and machines.  :Very Happy: 
I laughed at the part about doing a city before breakfast. 



> Aye - I remember you saying that 
> 
> John - I said this of Ilanthar the other day, and its just as applicable to you:
> 
> You are one of the Poets of Cartography we are lucky enough to mingle with on this forum on a daily basis


Thank you Mouse - that is a wonderful compliment. 
It is ironic, as I do write often and I started writing poetic work when I was younger.
I write a bit every now and again too. Poetry, that is.  :Wink: 



> Hmm... Yes. Clearly not.   [shakes head, chuckling at J.Edward's ridiculous comments]
> 
> Voolf, you're assuming he eats breakfast.  I think he just recharges a battery or something.


Hehe, I don't actually eat breakfast ;P I usually only eat one meal a day.
And then drink coffee all day long  :Wink: 



> 30 minutes for that colour!? Beautiful!


Thanks Josiah  :Smile:  The watercolor style makes for faster work on color.



> Yeap, you got it right here.


 :Wink: 

Oh, I am still slowly working on Algefar too, along with like a million other maps.

----------


## ThomasR

> oh, i am still slowly working on algefar too, along with like a million other maps.


Yeaaaaaaaah ! I call it your Erwin Raisz map.

----------


## nam37

> Thanks Chashio 
> Well, I took about 30 minutes to try to get some color going for the three 5 minute sketch ones, which I spent a bit more time on adding in some darker lines and such.


Do you do add color with Photoshop and a (wacom-style) tablet? If not, what do you use? The blending is very natural looking.

----------


## J.Edward

> Yeaaaaaaaah ! I call it your Erwin Raisz map.


Hehe  :Very Happy:  Raisz is a worthy aspiration.
I have a map I haven't shown yet that relates to Skenara..
I think you'll  like it. It's much like Algefar, but I did it before working on Algefar.  :Wink: 



> Do you do add color with Photoshop and a (wacom-style) tablet? If not, what do you use? The blending is very natural looking.


Hey nam, I use photoshop and a wacom. I do all of the color work in Photoshop.
I've worked for a while at trying to replicate some natural media techniques in digital format.

----------


## ThomasR

> I have a map I haven't shown yet that relates to Skenara..
> I think you'll  like it. It's much like Algefar, but I did it before working on Algefar.


Cannot wait to see it  :Very Happy:

----------


## Voolf

> I hadn't seen that What thread was that in?


It is here, The conversation which led to it starts from post #24. We were just wondering how you can draw such fast, beautiful buildings all the time and dont get tired of it  :Smile:

----------


## J.Edward

> Cannot wait to see it


 :Wink:  It is pretty cool. I am not sure if I will color it first before posting.



> It is here, The conversation which led to it starts from post #24. We were just wondering how you can draw such fast, beautiful buildings all the time and dont get tired of it


Thanks Voolf  :Very Happy:

----------


## J.Edward

So, Chashio was doing this map thing and I got the idea to take that oblique view and see what the whole world would look like.
It is a small deviation from that image. What we realized was that this would be a rather small world.
That seemed like a sort of fun thing to do... little worlds.
So, this is the first in a possible series of Little Worlds.
Maybe even stories from Little Worlds.  :Wink: 

This is Grey World, or the Lands of Chaoshi Unogwaja
Chaoshi is a character in several worlds of mine, based loosely on our mutual friend, Chashio.  :Wink: 



This is just at a sort of advanced sketch stage right now.
Colors will prob change and land features are still being developed.

----------


## Voolf

Wooaah, me like it so much already  :Very Happy: 

This does not appear to me as a small world at all. If you keep mountains as those small strokes like now, it will look like avarage size badass  :Very Happy:

----------


## Mouse

Very beautiful  :Very Happy:

----------


## ThomasR

I think I'm about to freak out ... are you pulling a "Thurian Age" on us ? Please do ! Please do !

----------


## - JO -

What impressed me most was the mastery of perspective ... Did you draw the meridians and parallels alone, or did you help yourself with software? The result is magnificent and suggests a better development... after all... this is a better world, isnt'it ?

----------


## Josiah VE

Beautiful already!

----------


## Chashio

> So, Chashio was doing this map thing and I got the idea to take that oblique view and see what the whole world would look like.
> It is a small deviation from that image. What we realized was that this would be a rather small world.
> That seemed like a sort of fun thing to do... little worlds.
> So, this is the first in a possible series of Little Worlds.
> Maybe even stories from Little Worlds. 
> 
> This is Grey World, or the Lands of Chaoshi Unogwaja
> Chaoshi is a character in several worlds of mine, based loosely on our mutual friend, Chashio.


And you totally just one-upped me x30  :Razz:   :Very Happy:  It's fantastic!

Voolf - Going by the amount of terrain height and horizon curve I put on my little painted oblique map view, it would have made quite a small world. J made it a bit bigger, sort of.  :Wink: 

J - You are so not getting out of those stories.  :Razz:  But I will help with illustrations and ideas if ya'd like. ;P

----------


## Larry

Your work is always inspiring. I am always blown away at your creativity and skill. I really liked the rivers and inlets. That is something I what to start working on in my drawings. Thanks for taking the time to post your art.

----------


## J.Edward

Image update is below  :Wink: 
Sorry I took so long to get back to these comments everyone.  :Surprised: 



> Wooaah, me like it so much already 
> 
> This does not appear to me as a small world at all. If you keep mountains as those small strokes like now, it will look like avarage size badass


Thank you Voolf  :Smile: 
Haha, well, it may be a bit bigger than small, but I think it should still be smaller than Earth.



> Very beautiful


Thank you Mouse  :Smile: 



> I think I'm about to freak out ... are you pulling a "Thurian Age" on us ? Please do ! Please do !


Haha Thanks Thomas  :Smile: 
And as you'll see, this is gonna be Thurian Plus... it is gonna have color, sort of.
The current color is just sort of temporary.
It will change. Though still color.



> What impressed me most was the mastery of perspective ... Did you draw the meridians and parallels alone, or did you help yourself with software? The result is magnificent and suggests a better development... after all... this is a better world, isnt'it ?


Thanks JO  :Smile: 
I did try total freehand lines first. I got close, but not as close as I wanted.
So i did some paths in PS to use as guides, then still drew out the lines myself.



> Beautiful already!


Thanks Josiah  :Smile: 



> And you totally just one-upped me x30  It's fantastic!
> 
> Voolf - Going by the amount of terrain height and horizon curve I put on my little painted oblique map view, it would have made quite a small world. J made it a bit bigger, sort of. 
> 
> J - You are so not getting out of those stories. But I will help with illustrations and ideas if ya'd like. ;P


I didn't mean to one-up you Chashio  :Frown: 
That was totally not my intention. You are just very inspiring  :Very Happy: 
Hehe, i suppose it is a wee bit larger than it maybe should be.
Uhm... stories... yes... looks left, looks right... what stories? 
hehe, I need a pocket dimension so I can write stories there. 



> Your work is always inspiring. I am always blown away at your creativity and skill. I really liked the rivers and inlets. That is something I what to start working on in my drawings. Thanks for taking the time to post your art.


Thank you Larry  :Smile:  really appreciate that.

Anyways, here's the current progress on Grey World.

----------


## DanielHasenbos

Man, your landscapes are always so recognisable, and lovely too look at. I really like this one!

----------


## Falconius

Your globe and partial globe drawings are always very impressive.  This will be an interesting experiment to follow.

Edit: Fixed the "you're"

----------


## Elterio Delgard

Well, me is no Pinnochio but I won't lie, I won't say its bad in fear of my nose growing, ITS AWESOME! it must be hard to draw a map where you progressively change the scale because of both the angle of your map and the sphere. That takes LOTS of courage!
Bravo is all I can say!

The mountains in the first page of the thread took a quick improvement.

Also, this thread is... THREE YEARS OLD! I am quite inspired by the devotion you give to your work.v Have some rep!

Edit: Argh... It says I must spread some rep first. Noooo! D: I can't place rep yet... Well... Have some, errr, invisible rep? *sigh*

----------


## ThomasR

Your mountain ranges are so organic ! What is the size and resolution of the base file ?

----------


## Ilanthar

Hmmm... I love the land shapes and the globe view... will follow closely  :Wink: .

----------


## J.Edward

> Man, your landscapes are always so recognisable, and lovely too look at. I really like this one!


Thanks Daniel  :Very Happy: 
That is always good to hear. 



> Your globe and partial globe drawings are always very impressive.  This will be an interesting experiment to follow.
> 
> Edit: Fixed the "you're"


Thanks Falconius  :Smile: 



> Well, me is no Pinnochio but I won't lie, I won't say its bad in fear of my nose growing, ITS AWESOME! it must be hard to draw a map where you progressively change the scale because of both the angle of your map and the sphere. That takes LOTS of courage!
> Bravo is all I can say!
> 
> The mountains in the first page of the thread took a quick improvement.
> 
> Also, this thread is... THREE YEARS OLD! I am quite inspired by the devotion you give to your work.v Have some rep!
> 
> Edit: Argh... It says I must spread some rep first. Noooo! D: I can't place rep yet... Well... Have some, errr, invisible rep? *sigh*


Thanks Elterio  :Smile: 
And yes, it can be challenging to have the terrain changing as it curves around and especially down toward the bottom.
There is the choice of whether you flip it or what. I did flip it with Thurian age... may be just what ya have to do.

Hehe, 3 years... I didn't actually realize it had been that long.  :Surprised: 
[pats self on the back for endurance]  :Razz: 



> Your mountain ranges are so organic ! What is the size and resolution of the base file ?


Thanks Thomas  :Smile:  
The file is something like 150 mb and is maybe 24 x 24 inches at 300 dpi.
So it is sort of large, but not HUGE.  :Wink: 



> Hmmm... I love the land shapes and the globe view... will follow closely .


Thanks Ilanthar  :Very Happy: 
I was pleased with the sort of swirl shape that I did here.

----------


## J.Edward

Here's that flat plane Aerth thing I was referencing in the Flat Earth thread.
It really is a fun concept and has some cool potential for rpg gaming.

It all sort of came together rather quickly one evening. 
And then I spent maybe one or two more nights working on some of it before it fell to the wayside for a time.
Maybe more will get done. Is hard to say. I have so many little orphans now as it is.  :Confused: 



I meant to add....
some of those lines going from one ... circle? to another are underground or other types of passages or routes.
It's a wip, so... haven't figured it all out just yet.  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

Looks very promising.

----------


## Chashio

Underground passages from world to world? Fun!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Mouse

Fascinating  :Smile: 

I have a theory about flat plane worlds/universes.  If a world is a flat plane, then gravity must be a constant force 'flowing' downwards perpendicular to the plane, and which deteriorates the further away from the source you get (the higher up in the sky something is) - or the sun, moon and stars (which presumably have circular orbits parallel to the plane of existence (the flat world) would fall into it.

----------


## J.Edward

> Looks very promising.


Thanks Voolf  :Smile: 



> Underground passages from world to world? Fun!


I know, right ?  :Razz: 



> Fascinating 
> 
> I have a theory about flat plane worlds/universes.  If a world is a flat plane, then gravity must be a constant force 'flowing' downwards perpendicular to the plane, and which deteriorates the further away from the source you get (the higher up in the sky something is) - or the sun, moon and stars (which presumably have circular orbits parallel to the plane of existence (the flat world) would fall into it.


Thanks Mouse  :Smile: 
It's a serviceable theory. And I like that you have thought about it.  :Smile: 

It is a very problematic concept if one sticks to normal premises.
Though, ironically, i would be curious if people ever think about these things when dealing with other planes of existence...
like any of the higher or lower planes used in many rpgs - astral, ethereal, hades, gehenna, etc.
those are mostly all sort of eternal flat planes and have been pretty much accepted for a long time.  :Question: 

Sigh, i don't need more orphan maps.

Edit - As I have thought more about the whole messed up cosmology, it presents weird possibilities.
Like, are all of the inbetween ice areas in complete darkness?
Is light not a factor of stellar bodies? Is there some ambient light source?
Does light follow the same properties in this alternate reality?
If not, why and how does it differ?
Within the confines of this concept, are there some sort of forces that would allow for the motion of these stellar and lunar bodies?
Because it would, by default, have to differ from the physics of our current universe.
That in itself would be interesting to ponder - physics of a flat plane of existence.
Makes for a fun writing/thinking challenge.

These are, of course, questions I should not ponder when trying to get ready for bed.

----------


## ThomasR

Read _Strata_ by Terry Pratchett  :Wink:  Lots of fun.

And really nice set of maps !

----------


## Chashio

I read this: "Within the confines of this concept, are there some sort of forces that would allow for the *e*motion of these stellar and lunar bodies?"

----------


## J.Edward

I've been messing around with my old Nesindra III map.
Hopefully it will get finished up soon. One more project cleared away.
I already noticed some errors that cropped up from expanding a selection that I'll have to fix. Drats.

Nesindra III crop

----------


## Mouse

This is a bit unusual for you, John?

Looks good, though  :Smile:

----------


## ThomasR

Your coastal skills are something I admire (among others). They really give your maps a certain flair that's unique. Plus the color theme is a real good choice !

----------


## Ilanthar

Oooh, I forgot this... As usual, looking forward to see your next steps on this!

----------


## J.Edward

For some reason, that image looks really low rez... not sure why.
I'll have to add another later today.




> This is a bit unusual for you, John?
> 
> Looks good, though


Well, maybe it is. I did this sort of map more in the past.
I would always become slightly disenchated before finishing ones like this though.
Which is partly why there aren't any posted.  :Wink: 



> Your coastal skills are something I admire (among others). They really give your maps a certain flair that's unique. Plus the color theme is a real good choice !


Thanks Thomas  :Smile: 
I'd say the act of drawing coastlines is probably one of the things I have spent the most time on over the years.



> Oooh, I forgot this... As usual, looking forward to see your next steps on this!


I got some inspiration from your recent Eldoran astronomical view . This will have some decorative stuff around the hemispheres.

I'm trying to add some simple mountains in there in a style that looks ok with this simplistic style.
Ran through 4 or 5 versions and didn't like how they looked.
I'm also trying out a new font.  :Wink:

----------


## Kellerica

YEEEEEES. BRING ON THE DARKNESS.

I second Thomas, BTW, I have too have admired your coastlines for years!

----------


## J.Edward

> YEEEEEES. BRING ON THE DARKNESS.
> 
> I second Thomas, BTW, I have too have admired your coastlines for years!


You hold your own with coastlines.  :Wink: 

Here's a little update.. more of a teaser, really.
Trying out a new font on this one.
And going for a subdued and simpler terrain style.
Not sure If I'm gonna try to get rivers and lakes in there..
I'm thinking not, as it would make it too busy.

----------


## Ilanthar

That's a good teaser, I'd say  :Very Happy: !
I like the way you're playing with contrasts on those.

----------


## jshoer

I like the simplified style, and the inverted colors!

The font looks cool. It reminds me of midcentury pulp movie titles.

----------


## J.Edward

The finished version of Nesindra III is done and posted in finished maps.
It's always nice to clear one out of the archives.  :Very Happy: 




> That's a good teaser, I'd say !
> I like the way you're playing with contrasts on those.


Thanks Ilanthar  :Smile:  I often don't have enough contrast.



> I like the simplified style, and the inverted colors!
> 
> The font looks cool. It reminds me of midcentury pulp movie titles.


Thanks jshoer  :Smile: 
The font is a sort of retro slab kind of thing.
I believe it is meant to resemble the line angles of blackletter but more updated.

edit - testing font colors....
ONE
TWO
THREE
FOUR

----------


## J.Edward

I just got a copy of Fractal Terrains and finally downloaded Wilbur  :Surprised:  [really, finally].
I've wanted to mess with both of these for years and just never got into it.
I'm trying to see if I can use Wilbur to help me with a commission I am going to be working on.
I'll post some more later after I try a few things. There is a lot to learn about Wilbur and all of its features.
And sadly, i sometimes learn slowly. 

All this relates back to a post earlier in this thread, a topo I worked on some years back for a client.
They're now ready to do more work on this world. Should be interesting.  :Smile: 

Edit - might as well repost those pics...
  
Here's a more recent pic

----------


## kacey

These look great J.Edward, it’s a refreshing take on the modern topographic style. Fractal terrains is super fun to play around with, I can spend hours just hitting the next button and seeing what comes out of it. I’ve found the painting tools to be a bit finicky but I think I’ve finally gotten them under controll.

----------


## Ilanthar

Sweet! I like your color scale  :Smile: .

----------


## MapMappingMapped

Nice! I like the top-down style, particularly the mountains

----------


## - JO -

There's a mesmerezing effect, when you try to fellow your valleys with the eyes... That's fun ! Nice job

----------


## J.Edward

> These look great J.Edward, it’s a refreshing take on the modern topographic style. Fractal terrains is super fun to play around with, I can spend hours just hitting the next button and seeing what comes out of it. I’ve found the painting tools to be a bit finicky but I think I’ve finally gotten them under controll.


Thanks Kacey  :Smile: 
I suspect I will do the same thing.  :Razz: 



> Sweet! I like your color scale .


Thanks Ilanthar  :Smile: 



> Nice! I like the top-down style, particularly the mountains


Thanks MMM  :Smile:  It's a laborious style to work on, in a way.



> There's a mesmerezing effect, when you try to fellow your valleys with the eyes... That's fun ! Nice job


Thanks JO  :Smile:  The whole continent is round, so it sort of spirals around.

----------


## Elterio Delgard

Wow, I really enjoy how you did the islands really close to the coast and how logical it sounds. Actually you are making me rethink how to plan the "coast island belts'' if I can express myself in a clear way. What I mean is how you have lots of tiny islands following the irregular frontiere seperating the land and the sea body.  Also, your rivers taught me how a hand drawn map does not catch all the subtle elevations which can lead a river to twist around the coast and not necessarily simply going inland.

----------


## J.Edward

> Wow, I really enjoy how you did the islands really close to the coast and how logical it sounds. Actually you are making me rethink how to plan the "coast island belts'' if I can express myself in a clear way. What I mean is how you have lots of tiny islands following the irregular frontiere seperating the land and the sea body.  Also, your rivers taught me how a hand drawn map does not catch all the subtle elevations which can lead a river to twist around the coast and not necessarily simply going inland.


Thanks Eltario  :Smile: 
Interestingly, I was not very good with perspective or iso maps early on and tended to do mostly top down maps.
I did a lot of contour line maps and then elevation maps like this.
That really taught me a lot about where water would flow.
It also gave me some good ideas about how and where some islands might form.
Or rather, where islands would be based on the water level.
So if you had land rise from a mountain chain or series of hills and it went off into the sea...
or the sea level rose, then you'd have various islands all along the coast. 
Plus I look at a lot of satellite images and see that happen quite a lot.  :Wink: 
Water does do some interesting things. Not always what you'd expect.
But the more you know your elevations, the easier it is to predict it.

----------


## MistyBeee

It's just amazing to see that even with a totally different style it's just totally _you_, J. !

----------


## J.Edward

> It's just amazing to see that even with a totally different style it's just totally _you_, J. !


Thank you Beee.  :Very Happy: 

I'm messing around with a new program - Paintstorm Studio.
Really cool paint program at a low price - $19.
I have regular problems with Photoshop. Some conflict with my wacom cintiq.
It's beyond aggravating, so I try other apps to move away from PS, if I can.

I've acquired a few apps so far, and they're all really good for certain things.
None have hit the sweet spot that PS occupies, unfortunately.

Anyway, here's the piece I'm working on atm.
The drawing and painting tools are very nice.
I'm trying a variation on a style.

----------


## ThomasR

How I love your landshapes (no dirty talk here)  :Very Happy:

----------


## ChickPea

WIP is looking great.

I hadn't heard of PaintStorm before, however I see it even works on Linux. *faints* I'm going to try it now, so thanks for the tip!  :Smile:

----------


## J.Edward

> How I love your landshapes (no dirty talk here)


Hehe, yes, none of that now sir  :Wink: 



> WIP is looking great.
> 
> I hadn't heard of PaintStorm before, however I see it even works on Linux. *faints* I'm going to try it now, so thanks for the tip!


My pleasure.  :Wink:  I agree. I am always happy to see when companies make a linux version.
I wish more would so I could leave MS behind. Someday. [still have too much MS only software]

This was one of the ones I reviewed a while back. 
I acquired it back then but didn't really dig in till now.
Medibang is also pretty cool.

One thing to note - I haven't found a history palette yet.
It does have a ton of history states [undo levels] but it seems like that is the only way to work with the history, unfortunately.

----------


## MistyBeee

Looks great so far, as we can expect, of course : 'love the kind of false perspective you started there, if it makes sense ^^'

----------


## The Lazy One

Lovely! And all of the isles together really do look good!

I wish I had that control on pencils.

----------


## Ilanthar

It's crazy how good your details are for that tiny size!

And personally, I'm very fond of Krita and the last updates. But that may be because I don't know what PS can do.

----------


## J.Edward

> Looks great so far, as we can expect, of course : 'love the kind of false perspective you started there, if it makes sense ^^'


Thanks Beee  :Smile:  Yep, it makes sense.



> Lovely! And all of the isles together really do look good!
> 
> I wish I had that control on pencils.


Thanks Jack  :Smile: 
I did some exercises over the years to gain better control.
It used to be an issue for me as well.



> It's crazy how good your details are for that tiny size!
> 
> And personally, I'm very fond of Krita and the last updates. But that may be because I don't know what PS can do.


thank you sir.  :Very Happy: 
I liked Krita as well, but an issue sprang up a while ago.
It may have been due to a wacom update, but after the problem the cursor gets displaced about half the screen over from where the pen is actually at.
But only on the canvas. It's all fine in the user interface.
So basically I couldn't even use Krita. I tries updating Krita, but it didn't help.
The issues between windows, wacom, and some programs can be so aggravating.
Maybe it is a problem only I have. idk.

----------


## MapMappingMapped

Cool! I love experiment threads  :Smile:  And your coastlines... They're always so special.
By the way... does drawing with a tablet feel peculiar, or is it just a matter of getting used to? I can't help but imagine the pen sliding off and drawing straight lines without Your Permission (even though I know it's NOTHING like that). It's not my fault if I've never used a tablet in my life!

----------


## J.Edward

> Cool! I love experiment threads  And your coastlines... They're always so special.
> By the way... does drawing with a tablet feel peculiar, or is it just a matter of getting used to? I can't help but imagine the pen sliding off and drawing straight lines without Your Permission (even though I know it's NOTHING like that). It's not my fault if I've never used a tablet in my life!


I currently use a wacom cintiq, so I am literally drawing on the screen.
It's a lot easier I found, than the intuos tablets.
I started with one like that, long, long ago.
It was tiny. Called a Graphire. I think it had an active area of... 4x5 inches?
https://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Graphir...wacom+graphire
In case you can't see it...

That was back in 2000 or so.

I think I bought my first cintiq back in 2006? maybe...
Anyways.. i'm just rambling now.. so...

----------


## Ilanthar

I was wondering about a Cintiq... But I'm quite happy with my Intuos Medium. I found myself drawing on a very small area of it, anyway.

What makes it easier to draw directly on the screen? It's a very big difference in price.

----------


## Llannagh

Regarding the cintiq-question: I personally use an intuos medium aswell, but abut two years ago my sanity took a quick vacation and I got myself a Microsoft Surface Book. I thought it was a great idea at the time, because I wanted to get back to mapping and be able to do it sitting on my couch. The Microsoft Pen, the screen and any program I used convinced me otherwise, though...
That aside, though, it was the first time for me drawing directly on the screen, and I didn't like it. Personally, I got very quickly used to drawing on a tablet while looking on the screen. In my opinion, that's way better, because your hand is not in the way and you can see everything.

I love threads like this, btw. It's always great to get a glimpse of somebody else's process, and this one is no exception!

----------


## J.Edward

> I was wondering about a Cintiq... But I'm quite happy with my Intuos Medium. I found myself drawing on a very small area of it, anyway.
> 
> What makes it easier to draw directly on the screen? It's a very big difference in price.


I'll address that below....



> Regarding the cintiq-question: I personally use an intuos medium aswell, but abut two years ago my sanity took a quick vacation and I got myself a Microsoft Surface Book. I thought it was a great idea at the time, because I wanted to get back to mapping and be able to do it sitting on my couch. The Microsoft Pen, the screen and any program I used convinced me otherwise, though...
> That aside, though, it was the first time for me drawing directly on the screen, and I didn't like it. Personally, I got very quickly used to drawing on a tablet while looking on the screen. In my opinion, that's way better, because your hand is not in the way and you can see everything.
> 
> I love threads like this, btw. It's always great to get a glimpse of somebody else's process, and this one is no exception!


I have heard several people say about that - the hand being in the way.
I don't understand this. What do you do when you draw on paper?
Your hand would be in the way, yes?

Using the cintiq is more like normal drawing for me, so I found it very useful.
I just could not get into looking at the screen instead of looking at what my hand was doing.
Maybe it is a different thing if you grew up being used to typing and not looking at your hands.
Idk. That seems like the best reason I can think of.

I don't want to convince anyone to go for a cintiq. They are expensive.
And they can have problems like any wacom device, in the sense of conflicts with adobe and MS.
I have a near constant problem with PS, which is why I am always looking to move away from PS.
The problem does not occur with other software. Just Adobe's, yet adobe always says it is wacom's issue.

I have some issues with wacom too. shrug. Nothing is perfect.
In the end, I have work that has to get completed, so I do what I have to do.
I acquire tools and software that help me achieve that better. Mostly.  :Wink: 
But I am always on the lookout for something better.
Sometimes I just go back to the traditional, because it is often better.
It definitely feels better. Until I need color.  :Razz:  hehe

Edit - I thought I should add...
There are also downsides to a cintiq.
I know of more people who get neck and arm pains due to the position you tend to be in while using one.
It seems that you don't do that with a tablet like the intuos, because you are not leaning over it.
All that said, I could never achieve my work with an intuos.

----------


## Ilanthar

Thanks for your detailed answer, John!
I agree with you, I don't mind (and did not think about it ) the hand question when I draw on paper (I'm just scary to fold or stain the paper... I'm not always being cautious).

I thought it would be more like "normal" drawing with a Cintiq. I wasn't sure about it, we all have questions about techs we never try, I guess.
And yup, the combination of tools/softwares/hardware/OS is always a complex one, subject to conflicts and problems... But I prefer it to something all one-company dependant somehow.
I've less problem with Krita under Linux Mint (my day-to-day work station) than using Krita under WIndows, which makes senses because it was developed for Linux.
AND I'm actually very surprised that I didn't encountered any problem with my tablet so far...

Anyway, thanks again for those details.
Oh, and I love drawing on paper, but I would have the problem of lettering added to the color one. Plus, I love the symmetry tool lately...

----------


## Llannagh

> I have heard several people say about that - the hand being in the way.
> I don't understand this. What do you do when you draw on paper?
> Your hand would be in the way, yes?


Indeed it would be. That's the upside of digital art. But I totally get your point, I like to doodle on paper sometimes and of course I'm not bothered by my hand being "in the way" whatsoever. I guess it's also about the feel of my palm on the screen, my arm obscuring some menus in the program, stuff like that. And maybe it's just from a less than great experience with an overpriced product (though most reviews were very positive about the Surface Book). Perhaps I should have invested in a cintiq instead. In the end it get's down to personal taste.  :Smile: 

What matters is that people like you are able to put out art and being able to easily share it.

----------


## Kellerica

If I may add something to the Cintiq question; I've been using the 22HD model for almost two years now, and I wouldn't even dream about going back. 

I guess it depends on the model one is using, but mine has been almost perfect for me. The screen is only a little smaller than my main monitor, so the entire PS interface fits into it perfectly well and I never have to cover any of the utilities with my hand.

The tablet sits on its own stand rather than laying down on the table, so I'm not really leaning over it. You can adjust the angle to your liking. It's more like working on a paper on one of those painting stand things (sorry, no idea what they are actually called in English). To me, this works, as I've always preferred to work with the surface I'm drawing on at an angle rather than laying on the table. When I draw by hand (which I almost never do these days), I usually like to sit with my knees up and a sketchbook resting against my thighs.

I honestly have almost zero complaints so far. There has been one instance, where a Windows update screwed up the harmony of my PS and the Wacom driver and it took me a while to find a way to patch it up for a time. The next driver and PS update, which came out in a reasonable time, fixed the issues, and there have been no other problems since.  The Cintiq has been a god-send for my drawing ability. I could never get used to the old Intuos I was using before - I worked with it for years and still found it difficult to get the hang of it. I had a few weird 'dead angles' that my hand and brain just couldn't get the handle on, and whenever I tried making a line in one of these angles it would always be 30 degrees in the wrong direction. It could take me 5-10 tries to get a single little line drawn correctly. None of this exists with the Cintiq. The screen also rotates 360 degrees on its stand, so I can even turn the screen if I find it difficult getting something drawn at a certain angle.

Like J said too, obviously take all of this with a grain of salt, as a Cintiq is mad expensive and you definitely should think it through carefully before getting one. But for me, personally, it has enabled me to do maps in a way no other device has come even close. 

...
Whooooo, that got a wee bit out of hand didn't it? Your thread is great, J, hope you don't mind too much about my lenghty praise on my baby...  :Very Happy:

----------


## - JO -

> I have a near constant problem with PS, which is why I am always looking to move away from PS.


Hi ! Is your problem the loss of the pressure sensitivity of the pencil ?
I've got that problem sometime (when there's an update of the driver, usually... ) There's a quick fix for that issue

----------


## J.Edward

> Thanks for your detailed answer, John!
> I agree with you, I don't mind (and did not think about it ) the hand question when I draw on paper (I'm just scary to fold or stain the paper... I'm not always being cautious).
> 
> I thought it would be more like "normal" drawing with a Cintiq. I wasn't sure about it, we all have questions about techs we never try, I guess.
> And yup, the combination of tools/softwares/hardware/OS is always a complex one, subject to conflicts and problems... But I prefer it to something all one-company dependant somehow.
> I've less problem with Krita under Linux Mint (my day-to-day work station) than using Krita under WIndows, which makes senses because it was developed for Linux.
> AND I'm actually very surprised that I didn't encountered any problem with my tablet so far...
> 
> Anyway, thanks again for those details.
> Oh, and I love drawing on paper, but I would have the problem of lettering added to the color one. Plus, I love the symmetry tool lately...


I was trying to work with Krita for a while.
In general, I liked it, but it was missing features I had in some other programs, but was nice to draw in.
That problem I described basically ended any use of Krita for me, unfortunately.
I updated Krita. Maybe it will get rectified in the future.



> Indeed it would be. That's the upside of digital art. But I totally get your point, I like to doodle on paper sometimes and of course I'm not bothered by my hand being "in the way" whatsoever. I guess it's also about the feel of my palm on the screen, my arm obscuring some menus in the program, stuff like that. And maybe it's just from a less than great experience with an overpriced product (though most reviews were very positive about the Surface Book). Perhaps I should have invested in a cintiq instead. In the end it get's down to personal taste. 
> 
> What matters is that people like you are able to put out art and being able to easily share it.


Like Kell, I have had larger cintiqs, so interface is not usually covered by hands in any way.
I had thought of getting a Surface pro at one point.
I tried one in a store and was not pleased. It was not like using a cintiq, to me.
That said, I have not found a mobile device that has felt like using a cintiq.
So I am still tied to the desk, as it were. Except when doing traditional work.  :Wink: 



> If I may add something to the Cintiq question; I've been using the 22HD model for almost two years now, and I wouldn't even dream about going back. 
> 
> I guess it depends on the model one is using, but mine has been almost perfect for me. The screen is only a little smaller than my main monitor, so the entire PS interface fits into it perfectly well and I never have to cover any of the utilities with my hand.
> 
> The tablet sits on its own stand rather than laying down on the table, so I'm not really leaning over it. You can adjust the angle to your liking. It's more like working on a paper on one of those painting stand things (sorry, no idea what they are actually called in English). To me, this works, as I've always preferred to work with the surface I'm drawing on at an angle rather than laying on the table. When I draw by hand (which I almost never do these days), I usually like to sit with my knees up and a sketchbook resting against my thighs.
> 
> I honestly have almost zero complaints so far. There has been one instance, where a Windows update screwed up the harmony of my PS and the Wacom driver and it took me a while to find a way to patch it up for a time. The next driver and PS update, which came out in a reasonable time, fixed the issues, and there have been no other problems since.  The Cintiq has been a god-send for my drawing ability. I could never get used to the old Intuos I was using before - I worked with it for years and still found it difficult to get the hang of it. I had a few weird 'dead angles' that my hand and brain just couldn't get the handle on, and whenever I tried making a line in one of these angles it would always be 30 degrees in the wrong direction. It could take me 5-10 tries to get a single little line drawn correctly. None of this exists with the Cintiq. The screen also rotates 360 degrees on its stand, so I can even turn the screen if I find it difficult getting something drawn at a certain angle.
> 
> Like J said too, obviously take all of this with a grain of salt, as a Cintiq is mad expensive and you definitely should think it through carefully before getting one. But for me, personally, it has enabled me to do maps in a way no other device has come even close. 
> ...


That's actually one of the areas where I have some grievance with wacom... stands for cintiqs.
My old 21ux came with an awesome stand. I loved it.
My later, even more expensive 27 replacement came with no stand.
The stand would be an additional $3-500. And they took away the keys on the wacom.
Replaced with the express key remote... that always turns off. Just when I would have needed to use it.
I am not thrilled with their drivers lately either. 
For the amount that people must spend for these devices.. I am not entirely satisfied with their actions lately.
But, they are still far better quality than most of the competitors.




> Hi ! Is your problem the loss of the pressure sensitivity of the pencil ?
> I've got that problem sometime (when there's an update of the driver, usually... ) There's a quick fix for that issue


I have spent years trying to fix this problem.
I have searched the net and tried everything I could find.
The problem never consistently goes away.

It is a weird problem, because it is not consistent - meaning it is not always present.
Sometimes I can go the whole day without this problem showing up.
Other times, it is happening every other stroke of the pen.

It is equivalent to the wacom acting like pen pressure just drops off.
I call it the blobby pen syndrome. 
It could be at the start of a new stroke, or even in the midst of a line...
pen pressure drops and the pen acts like it has no pressure sensitivity and just makes a fat blob of a line.
It's like it drops out for a second and then the pressure is back to normal.
I do a lot of quick strokes so when it happens i have to go back several steps in the history palette to correct it.
That costs me a lot of time when it is happening a lot. And it only happens in photoshop.
Not in any other program. None of them. But, adobe says it is a wacom problem.
The time interval between pressure drop is also not consistent.
It can be a very short interval at times, a few seconds between blobs.
Or it can be several minutes or more between the blobs.

shrug. But like I said, it is inconsistent. It doesn't happen all the time.
And none of the fixes have worked.
To say it is frustrating is not really accurate.
But, it has helped me to learn more patience and to redirect my frustration, sometimes.

----------


## J.Edward

> Hi ! Is your problem the loss of the pressure sensitivity of the pencil ?
> I've got that problem sometime (when there's an update of the driver, usually... ) There's a quick fix for that issue


@- JO - I meant to say, let me know what worked for you.
I may have heard of it, but I may not have.
I'm always eager for a possible solution to this problem.

----------


## Voolf

> It is a weird problem, because it is not consistent - meaning it is not always present.
> Sometimes I can go the whole day without this problem showing up.
> Other times, it is happening every other stroke of the pen.


Do you have any other tablet to check it with the PS, or had you experienced that before cintiq on other tablet ?
The fact that it is not consistent tells me it may be some kind of a software conflict. Try to monitor what you are running in the background while the pen issue occurs. Maybe you can pin down the software that cause PS's hiccups.
If you have access to a different PC (ideally with different setup) try working with it and see if this problem also happens.

----------


## Kellerica

That is strange, as I do know the issue you're talking of. I've gotten those hiccups as well, but for me they seemed to be almost entirely related to Affinity Photo and not Photoshop. With PS, it has happened maybe ten singular times over the years I've been using my Cintiq. 22HD Cintiq and more or less always the latest Photoshop CC version, and I basically never have this issue.

----------


## - JO -

> @- JO - I meant to say, let me know what worked for you.
> I may have heard of it, but I may not have.
> I'm always eager for a possible solution to this problem.


I wanted to find the solution I used in English but I didnt (so far)... so here are the solutions I found in French. The third one worked fine (two times). You have to make a .txt file and insert it in a library

Have you tried this before ? If not, let me know and Ill translate for you

La solution:


Ouvrez Wacom Desktop Center (taper dans la barre de recherche en bas à gauche de votre écran), allez dans mes périphériques > paramètre du stylet > Application > Photoshop > Correspondance et décocher "utiliser entrée manuscrite Windows".

En décochant cette fonction vous allez résoudre le bug du stylet mais il y a un risque pour que la pression de votre stylet ne soit plus opérationnel (malgré le fait qu'elle soit coché sur Photoshop) Pour régler le problème du stylet :

Créer via BLOC NOTE ou WORDPAD un fichier .txt contenant seulement UseSystemStylus 0 (sans les guillemets) et quil faut intituler PSUserConfig (nom du fichier à spécifier lors de l'enregistrement.)
Placer le ensuite par copier coller dans Disque Local C -> Utilisateurs -> (Votre nom dutilisateur) -> AppData (note : afficher les fichiers cachés pour le voir en cliquant sur AFFICHAGE et en cochant ELEMENTS MASQUES) -> Roaming -> Adobe -> Adobe Photoshop CC 2018 (ou votre version de Photoshop à vous) -> Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 Settings. Redémarrer Photoshop. Tadaaaam !

----------


## J.Edward

I forgot to say that I finally figured this problem out.
For ease of use, I had set one of the buttons on the pen to the hand tool, so I could easily move the image around when zoomed in.
That was apparently the issue. I changed both pen buttons to be off and now the problem is no more.
Over ten years of trouble due to that little stupid thing.

And that's also why the problem only happened in Photoshop.
It has something to do with how PS handles that issue.
Anyways, that's solved. Finally.

Maybe I'll post some sketches here this week.  :Wink:

----------


## J.Edward

Hmm, maybe here is as good a place as any to post up these variants and such.
I started making map packs and then decided to make them for roll20.
We'll see how that goes. 

This has been a really cool journey so far.
I had always thought that doing variants like this would be super hard.
It does have some challenges, but it is getting a bit easier the more I do it.

I have a bunch of them to post. I have even more I'm working on atm.
Anyways, I'll share the ones I just posted to roll20 as sirinkman
https://marketplace.roll20.net/brows.../503/sirinkman

First is the Tomb of Aznurhradi
Indoor maps pose a different challenge than outdoor ones.
   -   



Then I did the Empty Tomb, thinking people might want to fill it with their own assets.
But decided to make a furnished version too.
   -   

   -   

I started trying to see if I could do some assets and place them.
I've never really been able to get myself using assets, and always draw everything over and over.
Not the most productive use of time. It might also be that my drawing style doesn't work as well with assets. Idk.
This one, the Unsettled Tomb, has a ton of variants that will be available on my patreon in July on a new tier.
I didn't realize that roll20 limits the number of variants in a map pack.
   -   



I did a whole ton of variants for this one and then couldn't include them in the map pack.
So, they will go on patreon. And that has sort of forced things with other map packs I was working on.
Maybe it will work out ok in the end. Time will tell.
There will definitely be more to come with this stuff.  :Smile: 
Cheers, J

----------


## Ilanthar

For me, those multiple versions are another proof of your talent, sir. Especially when it come to colouring & shading.

----------


## MistyBeee

I applause this new step, J. ! No doubt you'll have a great success with those  :Smile: 
And what to say... incredible, as always !!

----------


## Voolf

These are really cool John. 
I started my Patreon with the idea of making variations too. My first map was like that, but somewhere on the way I have lost motivation to do them.
As you said they are quite a challange and it is not a quicky, despite the fact that the actual map may depict small area, making all the variations are very time consuming.

I still have few maps to finish like that too. Gotta go back to it soon.

----------


## kacey

These look great J! Love all the different variations and it’s really neat to see them all in a different light... Nice work as always!

----------


## J.Edward

> For me, those multiple versions are another proof of your talent, sir. Especially when it come to colouring & shading.


Thanks Ilanthar  :Very Happy: 
It's a fun challenge, to be sure.



> I applause this new step, J. ! No doubt you'll have a great success with those 
> And what to say... incredible, as always !!


Thank you Beee  :Very Happy: 
I hope so. I'm not entirely sure why I have waited so long.
But, life takes its own course, however windy.  :Wink: 



> These are really cool John. 
> I started my Patreon with the idea of making variations too. My first map was like that, but somewhere on the way I have lost motivation to do them.
> As you said they are quite a challange and it is not a quicky, despite the fact that the actual map may depict small area, making all the variations are very time consuming.
> 
> I still have few maps to finish like that too. Gotta go back to it soon.


Thanks Voolf  :Very Happy: 
I agree, it can be time consuming. But, I am seeing a decent return on the investment of time, so it feels worth it atm.



> These look great J! Love all the different variations and it’s really neat to see them all in a different light... Nice work as always!


Thank you Kacey  :Very Happy: 
It is fun to see a map done up in different ways.
Some I do just cus I already have a layer set up a certain way.
Others, I'll have an idea and then go down a whole different rabbit hole.

----------


## J.Edward

So, roll20 has a limit on what they call reskins of a map in a map pack.
Obviously that seriously hampered what I could offer people on Roll 20 for the Unsettled Tomb.
Because for that one, I did a TON of variants. And I had some other maps started for roll20 before I realized that limit.
So, I ended up changing my patreon to compensate.
Needless to say, I have been really busy this year. But in a good way.

I thought I'd drop the variant sample pics here.
I need to work out what the free images will be so I can post them as another sample.
I'm not fond of the business and ad/marketing side of trying to sell things.
But, it is a necessary part of it, so I have to come to terms with that.  :Wink: 

My patreon now has 3 tiers - basic, extra, and PLUS
So I have packs for each tier, always with a gridded and gridless version.

Basic
   -   

Extra, which is for the bulk of the variants
   -   

PLUS, where I created a whole new style of variant based on a specific theme
Here's the flavor text I had for this variant - Outer Dark infestation

"And today... I bring you a wonderful tomb full of the watchful eyes of outer dark horrors made flesh. 
You know this tomb is so hot and humid and foul smelling. hehe 
If I was more of a writer, I would have crafted some sort of adventure for this, as it's a nice twist. 
The tomb slowly changes form one awful thing to another, as the adventurers have to try to solve 
the mystery of what has been infecting and altering the resting place of the town's wealthiest family's burial site. 

There's loads of treasure to be won, if the players can stop the terrible things that seem to be coming from the tomb. 
Is it an elemental plague? or, as time reveals, the influence of some outer things, turning the entire tomb into the flesh of its material plane incarnation.!!!

Good times, adventurers.  :Very Happy: "

   -   

Not sure if there will ever be so many variants for a map again... but who knows. ;P

----------


## Larb

Well you've certainly given people options. =P

----------


## ThomasR

They are all beyond awesome !

----------


## J.Edward

> Well you've certainly given people options. =P


Hehe, yes, i went a bit overboard on these ;P
But I was just having fun trying stuff. 



> They are all beyond awesome !


Thanks Thomas  :Very Happy:

----------


## J.Edward

Another set i made for roll20, that also will likely have more variants on patreon due to limits on submitting variants on roll20..

*Valley of Tombs*, a new set up on #roll20 today.
A desert location that can work with the previous tomb sets I released recently.
I may make some additional tombs for the region, and possibly more of these desert locations.
I loved working in this color palette, and have wanted to for a long time.
Those vibrant sands are just so pleasing.  :Smile: 



   -   

I haven't made a larger variant example piece yet, but I probably should.

Check them out - https://marketplace.roll20.net/brows.../503/sirinkman 
https://marketplace.roll20.net/brows...alley-of-tombs

----------


## SteffenBrand

They look great, J.Edward, love the details in your work - as always. Nevertheless worth repeating =)

----------


## Larb

Clearly it needs thirty versions, ranging from heavy snows of winter, scorched grasses of summer, right through to verdant flora, and flooded valleys.

----------


## J.Edward

> They look great, J.Edward, love the details in your work - as always. Nevertheless worth repeating =)


Thanks Steffen  :Very Happy: 
Hope things are going well with you. 



> Clearly it needs thirty versions, ranging from heavy snows of winter, scorched grasses of summer, right through to verdant flora, and flooded valleys.


Hehe, maybe not quite that many... though... it def needs some variants with vegetation of some sort...
I need... a SHRUBBERY!!! ;D

----------


## - JO -

It's really amazing how good you are at making the natural elements come alive... you'd swear you could touch these stones!

----------


## J.Edward

> It's really amazing how good you are at making the natural elements come alive... you'd swear you could touch these stones!


Thanks Joel  :Very Happy: 
I like to wander around my maps. I try to imagine being there.
Maybe that helps their realism.

----------


## J.Edward

More in the world of roll20 and encounter maps...
This is a series of terrain sets for use in games.
This particular series is the Oldstone series, inspired by my first Little Map.
People seemed to like the color scheme and theme, so i decided i'd try to make a set based on that.
Then later do more types of terrains, like field and farm, and forests, and such.

It's been fun working on these. 
I'm hoping people will find them useful in their games.
They're semi-modular, in that they are not an exact fit together, but do work as a general regional type where adventurers can move from one to another in a game.
They're also good for small encounters, when everyone has a bit less time but still wants to game.

The sets have 4 maps and 3 variants per map, day, fog, and night.
I made two of them available free.
You'll recognize that first one, as it was my very first Little Map.  :Smile: 
Set one..
   -   

Set 02...
   -   

I already have a set 3 ready, and started on a winter version of these.
I'll probably have some versions on patreon eventually, as i had more variants than I can post to roll20.
Cheers, J  :Smile:

----------


## ghast

good maps keep it man

----------


## J.Edward

Apparently I've missed some maps.
I forgot to post Uthbir, i think.

Well, i better post that before I post the new one.
Ok, this one relates back to *Ganet's Island*.
It's a little village that sits up on the north west end of the island.


and here's sort of where it sits


Then the sales pitch pics ;P


   -   

I was going to offer this on roll20, as well as patreon, but I couldn't.
Roll20 has a lot of limitations on file size, and number of variants and such.
It makes it somewhat limiting. I've considered just offering the maps for sale from gumroad, but i don't know if there's enough interest to warrant it.

----------


## J.Edward

Then today I posted the Castle Grel map, which relates back to the *DaRigh map*.
This one was in the works for a while. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.
You can read more of the back story for *DaRigh* and for the *Castle* over on patreon by hitting the linked words.

Lots of variants, but these are not gridded, except for the one I post for free.
I started using a small square at the bottom to denote the grid size, as well as the unit size for roll20.
It's a 45 x 60 unit grid, which is a decent size for some battles.

Castle Grel is a floating island that appears in random places all around the lands of DaRigh.



Variants...
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There's one pack up on roll20 - https://marketplace.roll20.net/brows.../castle-grel-1
For some reason, they limit the number of variants per pack, and then didn't approve both packs at the same time, so one is left in limbo.
It's kind of frustrating. Maybe gumroad is the way to go, idk. Selling content is more struggle than it should be.
Oh well, it's my birthday, so I am going to go do something... have a great week, everyone. Cheers, J  :Smile:

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## Abu Lafia

Many thanks for this wonderful birthday present John!  :Smile:  I imagine Castle Grel as some kind of "Tanelorn" or maybe more a "Sigil" of this realm? WIth all the variants you show, it is easy to picture it on its travels over these different magical landscapes.
I tried to follow your latest productions and stumbled upon the name Ganet, but so far totally missed the little detail about Ganet being a badger... awesome! XD

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## J.Edward

> Many thanks for this wonderful birthday present John!  I imagine Castle Grel as some kind of "Tanelorn" or maybe more a "Sigil" of this realm? WIth all the variants you show, it is easy to picture it on its travels over these different magical landscapes.
> I tried to follow your latest productions and stumbled upon the name Ganet, but so far totally missed the little detail about Ganet being a badger... awesome! XD


Thanks Abu  :Very Happy: 
Yes, I have an affinity for badgers. I had another badger character in the Withering story. *Part 1*, *Part 2*, and *Part 3* over on my woefully un-updated blog.
I really need to pay more attention to that, or make a new blog that I can keep up with.
So much to do. Maybe I will work that out before the year ends....

Oh yes, i had forgotten about Tanelorn. Wonderful place.  :Smile: 
I quite enjoyed Moorcock's works. I should check and see if he's got anything new.

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## Bogie

Your maps are so much fun John, Thanks!

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## - JO -

Striking! Magnificent! Breathtaking! It's really incredible, this talent! 

We totally feel the fact that the island floats in the air, and the line is, as usual, incredible precision and efficiency in the rendering of the effects (texture, level, object definition, etc.) 
And the variations are also hallucinating in their originality and in their realizations. It is simply splendid... I wonder how long it takes you to realize all these different atmospheres? With the layers on Photoshop, it should still make the work easier ?

I would only have a tiny remark of nothing at all: maybe the flying boat would have gained in legibility if the air containers were above the boat rather than below it?  Anyway, the drawing remains clear to read: it's an island floating in the sky, but maybe for the boat, another look would have completed the atmosphere?

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## J.Edward

> Your maps are so much fun John, Thanks!


Thanks Bogie  :Very Happy: 
I wander a lot in maps, possibly because I don't get out enough. ;P



> Striking! Magnificent! Breathtaking! It's really incredible, this talent! 
> 
> We totally feel the fact that the island floats in the air, and the line is, as usual, incredible precision and efficiency in the rendering of the effects (texture, level, object definition, etc.) 
> And the variations are also hallucinating in their originality and in their realizations. It is simply splendid... I wonder how long it takes you to realize all these different atmospheres? With the layers on Photoshop, it should still make the work easier ?
> 
> I would only have a tiny remark of nothing at all: maybe the flying boat would have gained in legibility if the air containers were above the boat rather than below it?  Anyway, the drawing remains clear to read: it's an island floating in the sky, but maybe for the boat, another look would have completed the atmosphere?


Thanks Joel  :Very Happy: 
Yes, photoshop definitely makes the variation process easier... or well, somewhat faster.
It takes a good while getting all of the variation layers set up. The doing the bulk of the variations can go a bit faster.
I've improved on some efficiency, but still have a lot to learn and improve on.

As to the boat... good critique. nods.
If I had drawn a top balloon style, you really wouldn't have seen the boat deck. So there's that.
I also like to try for variety in design. I feel like the standard is a boat hanging from a balloon.
I just thought a boat riding ON balloons might prove an interesting, or at least novel, choice.
Plus, there are versions where the boat is in water, and thus has no balloons.
That said, it's still good critique.

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## Ilanthar

Great map with a ton of incredible variations! You're crazy good.
About the boat... each time I'm doing a perspective map, especially with a 3D base, I'm unsatisfied by this or this that might not be visible or difficult to identify... So, yup, sometimes one has to "arrange" things a bit  :Wink: .

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## J.Edward

This one was for the last *Halloween challenge*.
I did a bunch of variants that went onto *patreon*. 
It's just a fun oversized pumpkin patch of horror. ;D

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the variants

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## J.Edward

During the early days of the lockdown, I created a few maps for people to color in on their own. 
One of those just called to me to take it further. So I did.

Thus we have the Outland Inn. A friendly inn sitting at a crossroads of forest path and rambling road. 
Far from any town, this is an adventurer's friend when out on a random encounter. 
I already have the inside views of the inn ready, and those will be released a bit later this month.

This release contains 4 seasons with day and night, as well as variants. 
Basic receive spring and winter day and night. 
Extra gets the bulk of variants [26 + the 4 basics]. 
And then I created a special set for Plus. 
This set was just too big to even attempt on roll20, so it will be exclusive to *patreon* for now.


Winter wasn't the first version. The original version was done traditionally, and that was the spring day version.
All the others are variants done in PS.



It was an interesting challenge to do  all of the 4 season variants.
Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter, Fae, 4 season

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## Ilanthar

Splendid work! Now, I'm also envying your talent for colours & night versions...

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## J.Edward

> Splendid work! Now, I'm also envying your talent for colours & night versions...


Thanks Ilanthar  :Very Happy:  It gets easier the more you do it.
It was a lot harder when I was starting to try it.

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## J.Edward

Here's the interiors for the Outland Inn.
This was fun to work on, though after a while it was a slog to go through so many variants multiplied by 3 floors.

You can get over on patreon at the links -
Inn - https://www.patreon.com/posts/outland-inn-44479267
Region - https://www.patreon.com/posts/outland-inn-43945880

There are 3 floors done in 4 seasonal variants, including night for each season, plus some additional variants. 
The Plus level also contains some sub-levels that will connect with an underground dungeon I'm working on.
Have a great week and be safe. Cheers, J  :Smile: 



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## Ilanthar

Stunning work, once again.

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## J.Edward

> Stunning work, once again.


Thanks as always, good sir  :Very Happy: 
I might one day catch up to your illustrious maps thread. I'm way behind, with only 18 pages.  :Very Happy: 
You're rolling on ahead with 50 pages. Sheesh  :Surprised:  ;P

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## J.Edward

Well, let's add more to this thread...

Oldstone [warm & cold]

Oldstone is the first in a series of semi modular maps that showcase certain terrain environments. Oldstone is a rugged arid terrain with no trees or shrubs, featuring large chunky rocks and lots of grassy hills and slopes. These sets are made to create an  environment set that can be varied and reused in different ways.  They're made to be interesting but generic enough to be reusable.  They're made to have a feel of connectedness, though not having exact connections, thus semi modular.

They're based on my original idea for my Little Maps for Little Adventures series. https://www.imaginebetterworlds.com/...ttleadventures
Also on here at - https://www.cartographersguild.com/a...p?albumid=5276
Though, all of these need to be updated. I'm way behind on updating stuff.  :Surprised: 
As a side note, the first map is the one that started my Little Maps for Little Adventures collection, which will eventually be available with new variants.
Not sure when though. I have a ton of work ahead of me.

I have plans for Forest and Meadows, Farms and Fields, and probably some little towns and such. 
All of which depends on time, and whether or not the world ends, and such.  :Very Happy:  Cus the world is becoming rather unpredictable as of late.

Check it out on patreon - https://www.patreon.com/posts/oldstone-warm-45291189

Merry Christmas everyone. Be the cheer you wish to experience. Especially this year, of all years. Have a great holiday. Cheers, J  :Smile: 

Here's all the pics...


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## J.Edward

And here's the continuation of that post... the extra Christmas stuff.
I did a big Oldstone style region map with an obscene number of variants, cus I'm silly.
And cus I had fun playing around with the variations. I learn a lot doing those.

It's a decent sized battlemap with a lot of fun elevation change, some water, caves, and a ruined structure on a hill, with a hatch leading down to the caves.
A fun little wandering road leads you in and around the scene. Good fun for all.
The two free gridded versions are over on patreon - https://www.patreon.com/posts/oldstone-region-45500700

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So much to do this year. It's going to be a busy year. Have a great New Years everyone. Cheers, J  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

Just doing this for my own reference... keeping track of past wip threads.
Many were challenge maps, but a good number were just ones I wanted to make. Some are still ongoing...

Region - Somewhere in Guildworld [Celestial Shoal] - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=45691
City - High Horn Keep [reanimate] - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=45795
Region - Faebled Lands - DaRigh - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=47400
Region - Lands of the Greyvast - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=44870
Region - Kanoba - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=43386
Region - The Southern Lands of Thalak-Mul - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=40229
Region - Thalak-Mul [The Return] - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=42124
Region - Iri-Oriand, World of Living Magic - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=41888
Region - The Lands of Cha-uari - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=40103
City - The Ward of Chiezbehrg - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=36542
City - NunQiri, the Ward of Whispers - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=39713
City - Haerlech - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=29936
Region - Harlasea - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=34693
Region - Lands of Nahadua - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=32326
Structure - Umi No Toride - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=32326
Village - Sagemound - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=30419
Village - Bourmout - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=27860
Dungeon - Denizens of the Frog Lorde - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=30081
Region - Anthropos Iohanan - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=27915

Hmm, now I need to make a directory of all my threads... but that is another story. ;P

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## Adfor

> Just doing this for my own reference... keeping track of past wip threads.
> Many were challenge maps, but a good number were just ones I wanted to make. Some are still ongoing...
> 
> Region - Somewhere in Guildworld [Celestial Shoal] - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=45691
> City - High Horn Keep [reanimate] - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=45795
> Region - Faebled Lands - DaRigh - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=47400
> Region - Lands of the Greyvast - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=44870
> Region - Kanoba - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=43386
> Region - The Southern Lands of Thalak-Mul - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=40229
> ...


I strive to get to a point that I have to make a directory for all the work I've posted. Your work continues to be a huge source of inspiration, thank you.

IR

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## Andarr

Ohh my... this thread is gold mine... I really love your style. Cannot even imagin how much work is behind this whole thread... hat down sir...

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## J.Edward

> I strive to get to a point that I have to make a directory for all the work I've posted. Your work continues to be a huge source of inspiration, thank you.
> 
> IR


Thanks Adfor  :Very Happy: 
I remember thinking the same thing about Diamond, Max, and Sapiento.  :Smile: 
They had so many maps, and I thought, will I ever have that many?



> Ohh my... this thread is gold mine... I really love your style. Cannot even imagin how much work is behind this whole thread... hat down sir...


Thanks Andarr  :Smile: 
It's a good number of years, for sure. But they've been good years. Fun work.

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