# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Building/Structure Mapping >  Castle/Keep in Old School Blue

## Turgenev

I'm still in my blue period*, so here is my first draft of a castle/keep located next to a river/lake/ocean. The isolated towers are on their own little islands and they have access via the dungeon. I still need to add the various details to the rooms, castle/tower walls, land and water.


* With apologies to Picasso.  :Razz:

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## NeonKnight

Good job. I can see Erol Otis's artwork now!

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## Turgenev

Okay, here's the finalized version (until I start tweaking it again that is  :Laughing: ).


I've started the dungeon level. I still need to do the upper levels for the keep and the towers/walls.

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## Turgenev

> Good job. I can see Erol Otis's artwork now!


Thanks NeonKnight. Since you mentioned Erol Otus...


 :Razz:

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## Steel General

Love the keep Turgenev...

Oooh Castle Amber... I did maps of that a few months back.

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## Ascension

This looks great T.  I could look at this style all day long.  Brings back memories of the slightly dusty feel and smell of the pages in my hands.

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## torstan

Very nice indeed. Lovely castle.

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## Turgenev

Thanks for the compliments, guys. It is good to be drawing fantasy based maps again (I've been doing Sci-Fi ship plans lately).

Here is the dungeon for the castle. 


Rooms #14, 20 & 23 are the entrances to the island towers. Personally, I can see the walls/ceilings/floors of areas 13, 19 & 22 could be wet with condensation (the water of the lake/river/ocean surrounds these areas).

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## Turgenev

Here's the 2nd level of the castle walls and the keep.


Next is the 3rd level of the walls/keep, and then the top of the walls/keep. That's two more maps total.  :Wink:

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## Steel General

This is coming along fantastically Turgenev, nice work!

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## Turgenev

Thanks SG. I'm really enjoying this project. It makes me wonder what I should do next in Old School Blue.  :Wink:

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## Talroth

A point of rep, and something you missed. Your windows, they be backwards.  :Wink:  defensive windows flair OUTWARD, unless this is suppose to be a jail that lets the guards randomly shoot people inside and keep those inside from having good angles to shoot out of.  :Razz:

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## Turgenev

> A point of rep, and something you missed. Your windows, they be backwards.  defensive windows flair OUTWARD, unless this is suppose to be a jail that lets the guards randomly shoot people inside and keep those inside from having good angles to shoot out of.


Thanks for the rep, Talroth. From everything I have seen and read, it is the opposite. The arrow slits, or loopholes as they were also called, flair inwards to give the archer room to move (thus to get a better angle of shot against attackers) and the narrow slot at the end gives a smaller target. 

For example, Conway Castle:



Or the Tour du Coudray:



For the record, I meant the slits in the keep to represent small narrow windows and not arrow slits per se. That's why they are narrower and close together unlike the arrow slits on the towers. I also picture them being high up near the top of the wall to allow light and air movement but not easy access from outside (being on the 2nd floor helps in that regards also). With that said, I might change the keep's windows so they don't look so much like the arrow slits. I do plan on creating a Legend for the upper levels of the keep like I did for the dungeon level (once I have finialized the various symbols I am using - I still have to draw the Balistas for the top level).

Cheers,
Tim

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## Talroth

That is an interesting point, my experience is with far later fortifications. Firing from the narrow side means you only have to move slightly be be protected from all angles at the opening, and only have to move a little to change where you're aiming at. Narrow opening at the outside means you have to take a step to either side to see the entire field of view.

I think where this is most noticeable is in modern fortifications, the large concrete bunkers of the Great Wars, with their stepped framed openings. Basically the gun ports would be formed by using a stack of wooden forms, each one smaller than the last by a bit, making the sides right angled steps moving inward. Anything shot at it would catch, and any deflection would likely knock it into the far side to be caught, and not into the defender.

Sadly the few books I have on castles from earlier years, (which would post date Conway Castle.) and showed the narrow side inward, are all packed away in god knows where now. I wonder just when this switch happened, and why.

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## Turgenev

That is interesting. I wonder when the format was reversed. I'm sure there are regional variances as well. Course that isn't counting the various changes that occurred with the passage of time. 

I found this illustration covering hall windows interesting as well.

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## ravells

Stay with it, Turgenev, I think you've found a wonderful variation to the old blue style which looks fantastic.

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## Turgenev

Thanks Ravi. I've done a minor update to the Upper Level. I realized I should had the statues and steps at the front door of the keep under the cloud cover. Here's the revised version.



Now onto the next level.  :Wink:

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## Turgenev

Okay, here's the next level.



One more level to go.

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## ravells

Now THAT really looks brilliant!

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## edgewaters

> That is interesting. I wonder when the format was reversed.


Machine guns, I think, because they are difficult to reposition. 

We have a number of "Martello Towers" in our city, built in the early 1800s. They all feature loopholes for gunners beside the main door, and beside doors leading out of the first section beyond the main door. They are all still the same as medieval loopholes, with the narrow end on the outside. 

You can also see here that even in WW2, the narrow end was still on the outside for loopholes meant for single shot rifles:

http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.u...illboxpage.htm

(scroll down to the last 2 pics)

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## Turgenev

That makes sense to me. A heavy machine gun is on a fixed point, and the wide opening on the outside would probably be better for the gun's barrel to move from side to side. 

Welcome to the Guild, edgewaters! Have some rep as a house warming gift.  :Wink:  

I haven't forgotten about this map but I've been under the weather since the weekend, plus been pretty busy with work. I have a commissioned map almost done, plus a few other projects that need to be completed. Then I can get back to the final level for this castle (and eventually back to my town I was working on).

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## Turgenev

I finally got around to finishing the top level. The parapet and parados took forever to get the right look but once I did, the whole process went rather quickly. I have to admit that I had a lot of fun drawing the balista.



Now to do the Legend and I'll be able to post this in the Finished Maps section.

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## Ascension

This looks soooo nice...I really can't say enough superlatives.

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## Turgenev

Thanks Ascension. I've placed these maps into their own album on my user profile.  :Wink:

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## RPMiller

Excellent work Turgenev! Have a nice big slab of rep.  :Smile: 

Regarding the slits, think of it this way. If you have the large end on the outside, when several dozen arrows come flying in they will all get channeled down into the narrow slit from which the defender is firing and thus increase the likelihood of getting hit. The reversing would only be necessary for more modern emplacement weapons that have fixed points, and you are not worried so much about large volumes of ammunition getting channeled as you are about being able to swivel to any angle.

EDIT: Never mind, I see that edgewaters beat me to it.  :Smile:

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