# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Town/City Mapping >  Raum's Stronghold

## Voolf

I am moving this from my Voolf's miscellaneous art thread, because i guess it deserves a separate thread. It will not be done anytime soon and more people can actually see it here than in general mapping section.

Short story shorter. My first isometric city, that is more of a illustration than an actual map.

Here are the Wips so far


First chunk of sektch


Full sketch


1/3 of the linework


2/3 of the linework

If you want to read more (but it is not so much) you can go here.

I will update this map here from now on.

Cheers

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## Mouse

We really need a 'Follow Voolf button'  :Razz: 

But you won't get rid of me that easily!

Watching with interest  :Very Happy:

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## ThomasR

Let's follow  :Smile: 

For easy 3D modeling, I know Wired uses Tinkercad. It's free and quick to handle.

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## Wired

Yes, I can recommend Tinkercad. It's easy to use and can be accessed from everywhere since it's a web-based application. The downside is, however, that it's functionality is rather basic. You may find it useful to block in basic shapes to establish the perspective, but anything above that becomes tricky.

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## Caenwyr

Well whew, another very interesting map here! Will follow this one from close by

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## auke

Lovely!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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## Dain

It's definitely a really nice start.
No doubt that it's going to be quite a masterpiece !

Just some thougts, for the pleasure of sharing ideas and get your feedback.
- Do you intend to keep the architecture lines as straight and clean as they are ? At this stage, it kind of contrast a bit too much with the mountain around. The rocks and reliefs are awesome, very smooth and sexy. The buildings pop up a bit too much to my eyes.
- I'm a huge fan of isometrics, I must admit. But I wonder whether you could add some more punch using a vanishing point toward the bottom of the illustration. Just slightly bend the towers. That would, imo, create some intimacy.

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## Voolf

> We really need a 'Follow Voolf button' 
> 
> But you won't get rid of me that easily!
> 
> Watching with interest


Seeing mouses around every corner... feel like i am being stalked  :Very Happy: 




> Let's follow 
> 
> For easy 3D modeling, I know Wired uses Tinkercad. It's free and quick to handle.


Thanks for reminding me about that one !




> Yes, I can recommend Tinkercad. It's easy to use and can be accessed from everywhere since it's a web-based application. The downside is, however, that it's functionality is rather basic. You may find it useful to block in basic shapes to establish the perspective, but anything above that becomes tricky.


I have tried it, it  is not bad, but i am missing cut out option to carve more in basic shapes.




> Well whew, another very interesting map here! Will follow this one from close by


Thanks Caenwyr




> Lovely!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Thank you




> It's definitely a really nice start.
> No doubt that it's going to be quite a masterpiece !
> 
> Just some thougts, for the pleasure of sharing ideas and get your feedback.
> - Do you intend to keep the architecture lines as straight and clean as they are ? At this stage, it kind of contrast a bit too much with the mountain around. The rocks and reliefs are awesome, very smooth and sexy. The buildings pop up a bit too much to my eyes.
> - I'm a huge fan of isometrics, I must admit. But I wonder whether you could add some more punch using a vanishing point toward the bottom of the illustration. Just slightly bend the towers. That would, imo, create some intimacy.


Thanks Dian for comment and suggestion
- I have been told many times to change straight lines of buildings. I don't know why it bothers so much, i like them straight. Problem is i cannot draw relatively good buildings by hand on tablet. They are always skewed, that is why i use straight lines, especially when it comes to isometric view. For this one i will try to make a new layer and draw them again little jagged and see how it looks.
- this map originally supposed to be 3 point perspective.... but because it is really my first map like that after couuple of tries i decided to make it a bit easier and go for isometric view. I will not change it now, the image is too small to transform (the lines will be blurry) and i definately don't want to start again from 0. Maybe next map.

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## Dain

> Seeing mouses around every corner... feel like i am being stalked 
> Thanks Dain for comment and suggestion
> - I have been told many times to change straight lines of buildings. I don't know why it bothers so much, i like them straight. Problem is i cannot draw relatively good buildings by hand on tablet. They are always skewed, that is why i use straight lines, especially when it comes to isometric view. For this one i will try to make a new layer and draw them again little jagged and see how it looks.
> - this map originally supposed to be 3 point perspective.... but because it is really my first map like that after couuple of tries i decided to make it a bit easier and go for isometric view. I will not change it now, the image is too small to transform (the lines will be blurry) and i definately don't want to start again from 0. Maybe next map.


I completely understand,
What you could do then, is playing with the "perspective" function in PS, to create that vanishing point. Just for you to see what happens. I admit it can blur the lines a bit. For the next illustration then.
I often use that tool as well as Google Sketchup. These are smart tools to educate my rusty eyes for getting nice angles of view.


Doing so, i get this kind of sketch

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## Voolf

> I completely understand,
> What you could do then, is playing with the "perspective" function in PS, to create that vanishing point. Just for you to see what happens. I admit it can blur the lines a bit. For the next illustration then.
> I often use that tool as well as Google Sketchup. These are smart tools to educate my rusty eyes for getting nice angles of view.


Thank you so much for suggestions.
Unfortunately i don't work in PS, but in Krita. I don't think i am familiar with the perspective tool from PS. I stopped following PS since 2010 i guess. Krita has a perspective transform and other stuff, but i rarely use them, only sometimes when the image is big enough.

Google sketchup should help. I am now looking for good and easy to use 3d soft for quick modeling.

There is another problem i had with modeling though. because this map has buidings on different heights it is easier for me to draw them at the same time as i progress with the mountain. If i start from 0 in sketchup it is hard for me to plan the buildings when i don't know the "enviroment" around. It is not like a cluster of buildings on the same ground level.

Btw. Great city sketch. I definately want to go for something like this in future, but i need more practice in city maps. Not only drawing but also get ideas for more building variations. I am bad at designing from thin air.

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## ThomasR

I'm not sure but I seem to remember seeing a tutorial for transforming a height lines map into a 3D terrain in sketchup ... Maybe on youtube. That could get the job done.

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## Caenwyr

> I'm not sure but I seem to remember seeing a tutorial for transforming a height lines map into a 3D terrain in sketchup ... Maybe on youtube. That could get the job done.


There are ways! I did a ton of experiments for something similar a while back. I had a DEM file that needed importing in Sketchup, not the actual contour lines. I'm happy to say I actually posted the whole process I came up with! You'll need to download the freeware programme 3DEM, but no worries, it's 100% safe.

If you already have contour lines but no DEM file yet, it might just be a teeny bit easier to follow this tutorial. I never tried it, but it just might work. Let us know if it did, because I might wanna use it in the future! 

C

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## AntonioFrade

Uooowww!

The illustration is really cool Voolf. Taking as advance this first sketch the final result will be awesome.

But... I agree with Dain in the straight building lines (I have the same problem when I create a iso illustration). The cleaness of the building lines contrast excesively with the hand made lines and then "pop-out" of the surrounding contours. 

I know you don´t work on PS but perhaps you should try use a non-round brush to create these lines and then add some randomness. Other option (but implies more work) is to redo the buildings using a vector software like Illustrator and use some custom brush to create these lines.

You may try to search for Freehand, an old vector program that was buyed by Adobe and left for die years ago. I think I remember to view some free versions online.

Keep the good work,

Antonio

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## Voolf

> I'm not sure but I seem to remember seeing a tutorial for transforming a height lines map into a 3D terrain in sketchup ... Maybe on youtube. That could get the job done.





> There are ways! I did a ton of experiments for something similar a while back. I had a DEM file that needed importing in Sketchup, not the actual contour lines. I'm happy to say I actually posted the whole process I came up with! You'll need to download the freeware programme 3DEM, but no worries, it's 100% safe.
> 
> If you already have contour lines but no DEM file yet, it might just be a teeny bit easier to follow this tutorial. I never tried it, but it just might work. Let us know if it did, because I might wanna use it in the future! 
> 
> C





> Uooowww!
> 
> The illustration is really cool Voolf. Taking as advance this first sketch the final result will be awesome.
> 
> But... I agree with Dain in the straight building lines (I have the same problem when I create a iso illustration). The cleaness of the building lines contrast excesively with the hand made lines and then "pop-out" of the surrounding contours. 
> 
> I know you don´t work on PS but perhaps you should try use a non-round brush to create these lines and then add some randomness. Other option (but implies more work) is to redo the buildings using a vector software like Illustrator and use some custom brush to create these lines.
> 
> You may try to search for Freehand, an old vector program that was buyed by Adobe and left for die years ago. I think I remember to view some free versions online.
> ...


Wow, so many good adviced, thanks guys. I need time to experiment with that all, but i am not sure i will do that with that map, sice the lines are almost done. I will work on the buildings' lines again though.

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## arsheesh

This is already looking very good!  But then I'd expect nothing less from you.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Voolf

> This is already looking very good!  But then I'd expect nothing less from you.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Arsheesh


Thank you arsheesh.

I haven't drawn anything since last update though. I have some serious eyelid inflammation and i can't focus on reading and drawing, so i put on hold everything i have. Hope i can jump in into mapping soon ;(

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## Voolf

Just a tiny update. Drew more on the far right adding third tower, then i realized that there is no point drawing new buildings if i want to redoo them.
So i made 3 buildings again without straight lines and added texture to them. I marked them in red circle. Is that looking better?

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## ThomasR

I'd say it works better. The best would be that the irregularities in the straight parts could give a hint of the materials used to build the structure (terra cota tiles for a roof, bricks for a wall ...).

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## AntonioFrade

Yes, I think the texture in the lines work very good!!

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## Voolf

It is been a while since last update. I have been busy and just yesterday find some time to move a bit with this little beasty. Apart from adding more lines/texture to the buildings linework is almost done, just one maybe two more things to add. Jeez the battlements are such a pain to draw !

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## MistyBeee

Nothing better than this WIP thread with my Sunday morning breakfast : I'm so admirative with how you draw your stone & reliefs, and love how the buildings works with it. It's only a WIP, but there is so many to see already, and I love everything !

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## Voolf

Thanks Misty! This one is a real challange to me, as it is my first illustration / map thingy. I am more comfortable with a world or reginal maps.

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## Narc

I'm agree, your castle is very nice, and the perspective is good.
To help a little : the little park, above, is a little too leaning I think.

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## Mouse

Excellent work - even if it isn't in your comfort zone  :Smile: 

I love the way the rock seems to reach fingers upwards to hold the towers.

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## Voolf

I've put this on hold for too long already. Time to get back to it.... hopefully this time i will take it to the finish line  :Razz:

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## Mouse

Oh please do - get to the finish line.

Its not that I'm rushing you, but I really think it will be worth it  :Wink: 

Is that just the first layer of shading?

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## ThomasR

Nice to see you back on this one  :Smile:

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## Voolf

> Is that just the first layer of shading?


No, it is actually first colour fill for the rock (not finished yet  :Razz: )

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## Voolf

This mountain challanges me with the most complex shading i ever had to deal with. Without a refference it is hard to "guess" there the shade should be and where not in some places. I think this will be trial and error walk of terror for me  :Razz: 

If anyone has good knowledge and refference about shade for this kind of thing please do share  :Very Happy:  

light direction ↘

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## Mouse

As with paintings, step back from the canvas once in a while to take in the view - as if you are standing on a neighbouring mountain and admiring the scenery.  That way you will see the shape and form of the land beginning to emerge already, and be able to know where the deeper shadows should lie  :Smile: 

Its already looking great, Voolf  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

I smell some Akaé level map in the making. To help a bit, maybe if you put a perspective grid with the light direction you'll have more information like where the drop shadow go.

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## bkh1914

> If anyone has good knowledge and refference about shade for this kind of thing please do share


Any good book on how to draw and paint will provide you with the basics of how to do shadows - it's a very fundamental topic.

I'd recommend browsing in a bookstore, but then I'm an old-fashioned hard-copy type of guy.  :Very Happy:

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## Voolf

> As with paintings, step back from the canvas once in a while to take in the view - as if you are standing on a neighbouring mountain and admiring the scenery.  That way you will see the shape and form of the land beginning to emerge already, and be able to know where the deeper shadows should lie 
> 
> Its already looking great, Voolf


Well that is a good advice. Problem is, someone like me with low skill of painting something in mind can stare at it for hours and still can't get it  :Razz: 




> I smell some Akaé level map in the making. To help a bit, maybe if you put a perspective grid with the light direction you'll have more information like where the drop shadow go.


I have those, but still struggling. I know where the general shade should go. Problem is i don't know how far. The shadows are also distorted on irregular stone like that at some places. The best way to see it is to build 3d model with shadows, but i won' be doing that  :Razz: 
I haven't thought of Akae's maps when drawing that. Now when you mentioned it, i see some similarities. I am far from achiveing Akae's level of magnificent illustrations though  :Razz: 




> Any good book on how to draw and paint will provide you with the basics of how to do shadows - it's a very fundamental topic.
> 
> I'd recommend browsing in a bookstore, but then I'm an old-fashioned hard-copy type of guy.


Hey bkh1914, thanks for advice. I think i have the basics covered well enough. It is just hard to shade such a complex rock for the very first time maintaining the "3D" look.

Here is small update


Ps. I think i need to add more flora on the mountain.... looks too barren  :Razz:

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## Voolf

Going with my instincts for now...

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## Mouse

That's looking really good.  

And there you were, having is on that you couldn't do it!  LOL!

A deeper shade of shadow for the shadows within the shaded side of the hill would finish it off nicely  :Smile:

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## Voolf

> A deeper shade of shadow for the shadows within the shaded


Haha, a "shadow inception" theory?

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## Voolf

Hey, thank you all for taking part in this WIP thread. Map is completed, you can see it here.

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