# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  Voolf's miscellaneous art

## Voolf

I like to try new things and every now and then i feel like - at least try - to do some digital art that is not a map.

And so i also thought of creating a thread here to share some of my attempts.

Here comes first one. It is something i want to do for my website, as a homepage background picture. I am not sure if i will stick with it (the wip or even the idea). I probably experiment more and see where that will lead me. For now i am learing how to draw clouds. This is still far from what i want to achive, but the result is somehow satisfactory.... for now  :Smile:

----------


## Josiah VE

WOW! That is incredible Voolf! Keep it up!

----------


## DanielHasenbos

Josiah is right, WOW! This is looking absolutely great!

----------


## Greg

The colours in the sky are perfect in this Voolf and I'd love to know how you built up those clouds because they're gorgeous!  :Smile:

----------


## snodsy

Nice to see some of your other talents, seems like there are quite a few here who's talents far exceed cartography and it shows it their work. Look forward to seeing for in this thread and then to see them influence what you do in cartography. Thanks for sharing, you definitly have some talent.

----------


## Voolf

Thank you all.

GLS, The process is rather simple, but to make them "right" is different story  :Very Happy: . It is basicly 3 steps. 
1. Draw the cloud(s) ouline and fill it with white.
2. Draw light shadow (normal layer with very pale blue)
3. Draw deeper shadow (normal layer with different darker blue)
4. (Optional) smudge the outline and the shadows inside.

----------


## Voolf

I worked on this one more today. It feels like it may be finished. At this point i dont know what else i could throw into it.

----------


## jshoer

I love the way you melded the cloud into its own reflection!

----------


## Ilanthar

Wow, this is awesome, Voolf! I love both clouds and waves... I'm gonna watch this thread with interest  :Smile: .

----------


## ThomasR

That's beautiful Voolf !

----------


## Voolf

Trying to develop some new trees for B&W map. I am planing to put this one on my webpage too, and its more of experimenting map, so i decided to place it here. No need for a new thread for that.

So anyway what do you think about that pines, i am wondering if it is not too dense ?

----------


## Voolf

Did some small changes and added more trees and land features. To be honest, i dont like it  :Razz: . Something is amiss. It feels like separately, those are nice looking threes, hills, mountains etc, but they are not going well together.

----------


## snodsy

To me its about the scale.  The trees and grasses are huge compared to the mountains and hills.  It's always a trade off since you really cann't make it accurate to reality (you don't have too either) you just want to represent the elements accurately.  Reduce trees by 50% to see it that works, I got a feeling it might be more like 25% to get close and then it's the detail needed for the trees - look at Max's stuff you has a really nice balance.

----------


## Voolf

I was thinking that may be the problem. I havent resize the trees yet to check it out. The thing is i was trying to make more of regional map with bigger trees. Should i go for bigger mountains then ?

----------


## ThomasR

I'd go with smaller trees and more difference in the height of mountains plus hills. Here's an element of reflexion that I was reading yesterday.

----------


## Voolf

Thanks, i will play around with the trees then. I thought mountains are big enough but it appears they are not.

----------


## Voolf

Used some spare time to made this. Maybe i will use it for some future maps. Colours are not well done, its more like half finished work  :Razz: .





Made based on some some old cool looking compass. Thought will share  :Wink:

----------


## handsome_unlimited

Awesome stuff, Voolf. Love the compass.

----------


## ThomasR

The subtle shading for the compass works well but it's a bit too clean to my taste.

----------


## J.Edward

Yep, that compass/sundial looks great Voolf  :Very Happy:

----------


## Wired

Wow, that compass looks amazing!

----------


## DanielHasenbos

That's one very cool compass! Would love to see you use it for a map!

----------


## Voolf

> Awesome stuff, Voolf. Love the compass.





> Yep, that compass/sundial looks great Voolf





> Wow, that compass looks amazing!


Thank you.




> The subtle shading for the compass works well but it's a bit too clean to my taste.


It just left the factory Thom, not a single scratch  :Very Happy: 




> That's one very cool compass! Would love to see you use it for a map!


If i do one that works well with the compass i definately will

Thanks

----------


## Voolf

I trying to do some structures now. I will experiment with different approaches how to bite natural buildings look without straight lines.
It is very difficult to me. Most artist are probably drawing on a display tablet (or paper and skan it). It is much easier to draw while see as your pen and hand move on display/paper, than drawing on tablet and looking on PC screen. 
Using small simple wacom tablet i am rather forced to use straight lines. The most problematic is when i draw one fairly straight line by hand, but then i have to do inner/side parallel line to the previous one. Impossible for me to follow the previous one. Anyone got any tips?

Anyhow, Here is a draft of what i want to draw next. It is a Heianjingu - a Shinto shrine in Kyouto, Japan.



On the draft i drew straight lines for buildings, but i intent to slowly follow them by hand when drawing the actual lines in super zoom  :Very Happy: .

Feeing little guilty of leaving behind my GuildCity project now that i am done with my commissions for now, but i really dont feel like going back to it yet. The method i used to draw buildings there is very tiresome. I am hoping to learn something from this project so i can utilize that knowledge into guild city later on.

----------


## kacey

The building looks great Voolf, I hear you on the Guild City project I've been feeling the same way, the tiny buildings really are tiresome to work on. I've been feeling guilty as well because I'm about to start another big mapping project and I'm leaving so many unfinished wip's behind.

----------


## Voolf

Thanks Kacey. I wonder if i can pull out something good from it. No luck so far.
Hope both of us can find some inner strength to jump back to guild city project  :Very Happy:

----------


## Mouse

Hey Voolf  :Smile: 

I've been following this thread with interest, and appreciating all your lovely drawings.

Where the city is concerned...

I don't know anyone who doesn't get fed up with drawing lots of buildings.  I'm also taking a break, and I've adopted the attitude that I will do it when I feel ready to do it, or I'll only end up spoiling what I've already done - even if that means I don't go back to it for 3 or 4 weeks... or longer.  Stop worrying about it, and it will just happen one day - probably when you get bored and are just looking through your files and come across it one rainy day when nothing else is happening  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> Hey Voolf 
> 
> I've been following this thread with interest, and appreciating all your lovely drawings.
> 
> Where the city is concerned...
> 
> I don't know anyone who doesn't get fed up with drawing lots of buildings.  I'm also taking a break, and I've adopted the attitude that I will do it when I feel ready to do it, or I'll only end up spoiling what I've already done - even if that means I don't go back to it for 3 or 4 weeks... or longer.  Stop worrying about it, and it will just happen one day - probably when you get bored and are just looking through your files and come across it one rainy day when nothing else is happening


Thank you Mouse for the cheering words. Think you are right.

But... i know one person who appears to be not fed up by drawing buildings at all. Its a robot J.E. (all due respect  :Very Happy: ). Just look at his last city commission. It is crazy !
I have an image him doing this kind of maps within an hour before breakfast sketching something with one hand like he didnt even wanted to  :Very Happy:

----------


## Mouse

ROFL!  I was going to say "(with the possible exception of J)", but then I thought there were others as well, like Tainotim, so I decided not to make our wonderful city founder feel self-conscious  :Razz:

----------


## Voolf

Testing some new forests.

----------


## Mouse

That's really... treeish, Voolf (well, naturally!)

It's very pretty, but it does look a bit labour intensive - a bit like you've drawn the whole lot individually.

Is that what you did?

----------


## Matthew VE

Looks great Voolf, I really like the style. I would love to see a little higher resolution version to see a bit more detail, other than that it looks fantastic!

----------


## Voolf

I did draw everything Mouse, but It is not so labour intensive. At least less than my usuall forests.

Higher resolution doesnt look so good Matthew, just a bunch of splashes  :Razz:  But.. here you go

----------


## Mouse

I think the edges look better than the middle, if you really aren't that happy with it.  If you could do the edge work all the way across it would go from looking fine (in my opinion) to looking brilliant  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Yeah, that would be very heavy labour for one forest and i am trying to find something good looking and fast to draw  :Smile: 

Thanks Mouse

----------


## Mouse

What about the technique that Thomas used in his Alice map?  Could you use that technique and shape it to your own ends?

----------


## Josiah VE

That's a really neat new style you've got there Voolf.
You must be fooling yourself, at higher resolution it stills looks wonderful!
I like how it looks pretty dark and foreboding.

----------


## Voolf

Thanks Josiah, i am not saying that this looks bad. I like it, it is just not quite what o was going for. Still good enough for a decent map  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

I think this one looks much better.

----------


## Mouse

They both look good to me  :Very Happy: 

I think I'd like to see it not so dark and a bit more green than blue-grey, but I reckon on balance that you might be right  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Here is a sneak peek of what i am working on now. I don't have an idea for the entire map yet. Currently i am in the process of placing mountains. As you can see the top part mountains are not finished yet. After i do this, i will add couple more branches on the south that will extend to the east. That is all i know for now  :Smile: .



I also have the coastlines, but i deliberately turned that layer off, not to give away the land shape yet  :Razz: . I can say that the mountain range is on the west coast, so you can imagine at least part of the land.

----------


## Wired

Wow, those mountains already look gorgeous!

----------


## Mouse

I think its just disgusting that you can just draw this stuff so well! 

I'm insanely JEALOUS!  :Razz:

----------


## Voolf

> Wow, those mountains already look gorgeous!


Thanks !




> I think its just disgusting that you can just draw this stuff so well! 
> 
> I'm insanely JEALOUS!


Lol, at this rate, you probably will ask me to delete my CG account when i post next map... i must be careful.
But hey cheer up, golden compass is coming your way for last challange, it will be second in the row i guess. You can brag about it !

----------


## Mouse

I don't think the rest of the Guild would let you get away with that!  LOL!

And there are still quite a few hours to go on the voting yet - anything could happen  :Wink:

----------


## Ilanthar

Gorgeous mountains, indeed, Voolf!
*sigh* I don't know how you people are able to produce such convincing mountain ranges...

----------


## Voolf

> Gorgeous mountains, indeed, Voolf!
> *sigh* I don't know how you people are able to produce such convincing mountain ranges...


I hate the answer to that question, but it turned out to be the very true. 

"Practice" :/ 
More elobateted - your take the drawing you like, examine it and try to draw very same thing, over and over again, untill you can draw it without looking at original. Then you take new one and do the same thing.

----------


## Voolf

Ok, i think i will stop the mountains for now. I can already feel the pain when i think about shading this :/
You can see i started dawing some forests and also placed a desert.



I don't know whether i should make a proper WIP with this. I don't even know what i am drawing. Just a random land, LOL

----------


## Voolf

Close to finish the land lines.

----------


## Mouse

I despair of my own lack of skill whenever I see what you can do!  LOL!

Why still no coastline (or maybe this is a land in the middle of a continent)?

----------


## snodsy

Love the perspective on this one, again another beauty, look forward to seeing those shadows :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> I despair of my own lack of skill whenever I see what you can do!  LOL!
> 
> Why still no coastline (or maybe this is a land in the middle of a continent)?


I am redrawing coastlines as i am adding new things. It is not definite yet. It will be there next update probably.




> Love the perspective on this one, again another beauty, look forward to seeing those shadows


When i think about the work i have to put into shadows.... i want to stop drawing this already, LOL.

----------


## Mouse

So we're all ok, as long as we don't mention the... the S word?  LOL!

Looking forward to seeing the coastline  :Very Happy:

----------


## Chashio

This is looking wonderful  :Smile:

----------


## Wired

Big thumbs up for the forests and the dunes, that's some every "organic" lineart.  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Thank you all.

Here is probably the last linework update. It's pretty much done.



I did not finish the lines for the sea all the way down, because i am not yet sure and convinced i will use them. I will try shade the top part first, if they will look good i will add rest lines to the south. If not, i will probably try less work intense shading without lines.

----------


## Mouse

:Very Happy: 

I love this map already!

But you're still being a bit secretive!  What's going in that gap you have in that river in the middle?

----------


## Wired

I found them a bit misleading in their lineart form as some cartographers use similar lines for their hills/low mountains as well. I'd have to see them in color.  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

> I love this map already!
> 
> But you're still being a bit secretive!  What's going in that gap you have in that river in the middle?


Oops! That was not intended, i must have turned off lakes layer by mistake before saving. Here's propoer one



So not a big secret  :Smile:  Just a lake  :Razz: 

Edit:
Ninja'd by Wired  :Very Happy: 
You refer to the waves? i guess. You are right. I hope it will look better with colour. If not i will just delete them.

----------


## Ilanthar

Impressive work, Voolf. I'm looking forward to see the colours  :Smile: .

----------


## ThomasR

Outstanding perspective but I'd recommend not to show sea that way. Maybe show it with color instead.

----------


## Chashio

Love the horizon view  :Very Happy: 
The whole thing is beautifully drawn, Voolf.

----------


## Voolf

> Outstanding perspective but I'd recommend not to show sea that way. Maybe show it with color instead.


I will try my best thanks.




> Love the horizon view 
> The whole thing is beautifully drawn, Voolf.


Thanks Chashio, I was inspired by your maps with the nice oblique and horizon views  :Wink:

----------


## Josiah VE

WOW! This is outstanding. The linework and perspective is absolutely stunning, even without colour. 
I think the waves might look okay with colour!  :Smile: 
I absolutely adore this map!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Voolf

Thank you Josiah. I must have missed your comment. Read it just now while uploading new wip  :Very Happy: .

So i have been busy lately and haven't got time to progress with this as i would like to. Today i just finished the first overall shade for mountains. As always, thought i will share this, as i know some of you like to see wip and learn thing or two, same as me  :Smile: .

----------


## Voolf

Here's an update. I have been working on the mountains for past few days. Thet are not done yet.
I am drawing last highlights for now, but i am pretty much sure i will have to tweak them a bit more later on.

----------


## Mouse

When I was a child (ooooh.... about that many years ago now) there was a TV programme called Blue Peter, and it was on every week.  They would run art and craft projects to teach us kids how to make things, and each week they would do a little bit more to the project, like sticking the cut out pieces of card together, or painting it, etc.  Because air time was limited they had this way of showing you the method, then suddenly producing a perfectly finished version of what it should look like once you've finished doing that stage, using the phrase "And so that you can see how it should look when you've done that - *here is one I did earlier*"

It was at that point that I would stare at the perfect model on screen, and then down at my partly crumpled and disjointed construction all covered in wet glue and paint, and pull a... 'do I laugh or cry'... face at it  :Razz:   :Laughing: 

That's how I feel when I see your maps, even though you do these WIPs for us.  What you have there is WAAAAY better than my attempted scribble at this end!!!! ROFL!

But please don't let that put you off.  Its fun (and pretty hilarious) just trying to imitate you  :Very Happy:

----------


## Tonnichiwa

This looks great! Very nice job on the line work and the colors. I love how you have highlighted and shaded the mountains. And the color of the ocean is quite nice. On my screen the color looks very blue but it also has a texture that I like the look of.

I'm completely guessing here but are you adding a very light white highlight near the rivers to make them look like they are receded (is that a word?) into the land? I've always wondered how people make rivers look like they've actually cut into the land like these look.

----------


## Voolf

> When I was a child (ooooh.... about that many years ago now) there was a TV programme called Blue Peter, and it was on every week.  They would run art and craft projects to teach us kids how to make things, and each week they would do a little bit more to the project, like sticking the cut out pieces of card together, or painting it, etc.  Because air time was limited they had this way of showing you the method, then suddenly producing a perfectly finished version of what it should look like once you've finished doing that stage, using the phrase "And so that you can see how it should look when you've done that - *here is one I did earlier*"
> 
> It was at that point that I would stare at the perfect model on screen, and then down at my partly crumpled and disjointed construction all covered in wet glue and paint, and pull a... 'do I laugh or cry'... face at it  
> 
> That's how I feel when I see your maps, even though you do these WIPs for us.  What you have there is WAAAAY better than my attempted scribble at this end!!!! ROFL!
> 
> But please don't let that put you off.  Its fun (and pretty hilarious) just trying to imitate you


I think i understand you and it makes me little sad Mouse ;(, but seeing your recent maps in gimp i believe you are getting there ! Just keep up.
Thanks for this interesting analogy  :Smile: 




> This looks great! Very nice job on the line work and the colors. I love how you have highlighted and shaded the mountains. And the color of the ocean is quite nice. On my screen the color looks very blue but it also has a texture that I like the look of.
> 
> I'm completely guessing here but are you adding a very light white highlight near the rivers to make them look like they are receded (is that a word?) into the land? I've always wondered how people make rivers look like they've actually cut into the land like these look.


Thanks Tonnichiwa. The colours are actually picked randomly for now to divide everything from each other. I will probably change them later a little bit.

As for the river. The science behind a river carved into the land is actually very simple. You are right about the highlight. Basicly what you have to do is to draw a little light on the land, just next to the river on one side, and shadows on the other side. Shadow indicate that the land near river goes down, and light, that there is an elevation. That makes the river looks like it's in depression (carved into the land).
In my maps i always indicate sun somewhere on the left top corner, so the shadows are always on the left side of the river and light on the right side.

----------


## Tonnichiwa

Cool! Thanks for answering that. I think I will have to give it a try in Krita.

----------


## Mouse

Oh don't be sad, Voolf!  Learning how to laugh at oneself is a critical part of a child's development - even if that child is over 50!

And I really think I have a long way to go yet before I can draw a single mountain as good as one of yours  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

I have been trying to bite the waterclour technique lately, inspired by several pieces that i saw here and there.
Despite my efforts i have completaly no idea how to colour/shade with watercolour brushes. I also cannot achive an effect that something would like "less digital".

This is what i was playing with for seveal days. Looks decent, but i couldn't done anything what i wanted. One thing i learnd from it is that i still have great difficulties drawing plain grassland. 
I also noticed that there is something wrong with my ink brush for outline. The outline just dosen't look well enough. Maybe its the thinkness issue ?
If anyone has some suggestions about drawing with watercolour or achiving something similar to Francesca, Onez, or Schley, please do share  :Wink:

----------


## Mouse

First off, Voolf, I'm an oil on canvas painter myself (which might explain my bright colours and preference for texture, rather than areas of solid plain colour), but I've dabbled a bit with ink and watercolour wash (which is I think the effect you are aiming for with this map), and I'd say this isn't a bad imitation  :Smile: 

Watercolours run and bleed.  A colour wash, no matter how great the paper, the paint or the artist, is usually at least a little bit uneven, but I've no idea how you would imitate that digitally.  As they dry they create a subtle tide mark of slightly darker pigment around the edges - again, that's something I wouldn't know where to start with digitally.

Aside from the technique and the texture, I think you might need to make the water darker in the middle than it is around the edge.  Right now, though well drawn, its giving the impression of being a mound of something because of the darker edges.  The trees might benefit from a more 'watercoloury' mix of different colours (not shade but colour).

EDIT: thinking about it, the way I would describe a single watercolour wash to an alien from the planet Zog, who's never seen one before, is... like a coffee stain, but a planned shape and usually in a much prettier colour - transparent stains of pale rainbow colours.

----------


## Wired

Gah, how do you people manage to get those wonderful colors?!? Whenever I try that I feel like I push the saturation lever up to 11!  :Wink:   :Frown:

----------


## ThomasR

You might want to use a grunge brush (you'll get the unevenness) and use the wet edges setting in PS (to get what Sue is talking about).
Great looking map BTW.

----------


## Voolf

> First off, Voolf, I'm an oil on canvas painter myself (which might explain my bright colours and preference for texture, rather than areas of solid plain colour), but I've dabbled a bit with ink and watercolour wash (which is I think the effect you are aiming for with this map), and I'd say this isn't a bad imitation 
> 
> Watercolours run and bleed.  A colour wash, no matter how great the paper, the paint or the artist, is usually at least a little bit uneven, but I've no idea how you would imitate that digitally.  As they dry they create a subtle tide mark of slightly darker pigment around the edges - again, that's something I wouldn't know where to start with digitally.
> 
> Aside from the technique and the texture, I think you might need to make the water darker in the middle than it is around the edge.  Right now, though well drawn, its giving the impression of being a mound of something because of the darker edges.  The trees might benefit from a more 'watercoloury' mix of different colours (not shade but colour).
> 
> EDIT: thinking about it, the way I would describe a single watercolour wash to an alien from the planet Zog, who's never seen one before, is... like a coffee stain, but a planned shape and usually in a much prettier colour - transparent stains of pale rainbow colours.


Thanks Mouse. That is good chunk of theory here. The unevenness is probably achivable by proper watercolour brush (i may miss that one since i work in Krita with some custom watercolour brushes). If it comes to darker pigment around the edges i think it is easly done by applying inner shadow or dark glow to the layer. I actually did it only for the forest shadows on the groud. If you look closely you can see that the edge of the shadow is darker.
I am a little confused though. You said first about darker pigment around, but then suggest to use darker colour inside then aroud the edge. I think i know what you mean, but i saw many drawings with almost same colour tone inside and near the edge. beside the brighter colour near the edge the less visible shadow become..... hmm i dont know.
Thanks for the insight !




> Gah, how do you people manage to get those wonderful colors?!? Whenever I try that I feel like I push the saturation lever up to 11!


Wired if you have problems with picking good colour right off the bat, change the entire colour layer with colour management window later. I do that all the time.




> You might want to use a grunge brush (you'll get the unevenness) and use the wet edges setting in PS (to get what Sue is talking about).
> Great looking map BTW.


Thanks Thomas I used grunge brush and watercolour brush for this one. I think i used normal pencil brush only for shadow cast on the ground. I dont have PS so i can't use the wet edges setting. But i did crate simillar effect for those shadows on the ground with layers options in Krita. Maybe it is not perfect. I also relized that making this edges for a grungy or gungry looking watercolour brush is not visible since the edges on the brush itself are very subtle and les visible.

----------


## Mouse

A bit of clarification - the dark edges to a watercolour wash are extremely thin - perhaps thinner than your ink line.

This is a good example.  Notice how the paint is affected by the grain of the paper, and the way it bleeds into the grain at the dry edge at the bottom of the swatch.  The bottom edge is also a classic example of the line of darker pigment I was referring to.  Unless the paper is damp when the paint is applied this always happens with watercolour.



It really is just like a controlled coffee stain.  A pretty blue one in this case  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

Got it. I have to learn more of this, and probably find a good texture to apply. Thanks Mouse!

----------


## Voolf

Something i am working on now. I posted several wip on discord and thought it would be better to actually show it here on forum too. Lineart still not complete, couple more forests to go i think.

----------


## Greg

This is looking great Voolf! Your lineart is always stunning so very much looking forwards to seeing how this goes!

----------


## ThomasR

You achieve a very good relief shading with only linear, that's pretty impressive !

----------


## Chashio

Nice style, Voolf  :Smile:

----------


## Ilanthar

Impressive indeed! You're very few to be able to do that kind of map with just line art.

----------


## Voolf

Thank you everyone

Here is a crop of colour, i was excited at the beginning with it, but the more i look at it i like it less and less  :Razz:

----------


## Greg

Haha well everyone does that with their own work!  :Razz: 

Looks absolutely stunning to me Voolf. I was really wondering how you were going to approach colouring this, especially with the mountains and what you've done looks beautiful. Looking forwards to seeing more!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Azélor

> but the more i look at it i like it less and less


 :Smile:  but I find it pretty good. It's much clearer with colours added.

----------


## ThomasR

Impressive setting ! If I had comments to make, I'd change the color of the coastline. Black is a bit strong and it's the only feature that clashes with the rest to my eye. I'd also change the brown (reddish) of the mountains for something more dull.

----------


## Lilian Oake

I love seeing everyone share their projects on here! I don't know one thing about designing maps, but I wonder how much knowledge of geology and the like has to go in to this kind of thing. I mean, you guys who do this a lot, are there a lot of rules you have to follow to make a proper map? I only ask because I know someone who is being hired to make maps, but I don't know that she's been doing it long enough to learn these kinds of rules.
I'm a writer, and I have been for over 10 years, so I know the rules in my craft. Cartography has a lot of these rules, doesn't it?

And by the way, I highly respect you all and your skills here!

----------


## Voolf

> Haha well everyone does that with their own work! 
> 
> Looks absolutely stunning to me Voolf. I was really wondering how you were going to approach colouring this, especially with the mountains and what you've done looks beautiful. Looking forwards to seeing more!


Thank you Greg.




> but I find it pretty good. It's much clearer with colours added.


Yes it is clearer isn't it. Lines for mountains were more of a indications of deepest shadow  :Smile:  With colour they are easier to spot.




> Impressive setting ! If I had comments to make, I'd change the color of the coastline. Black is a bit strong and it's the only feature that clashes with the rest to my eye. I'd also change the brown (reddish) of the mountains for something more dull.


Good catch Thomas !. I have lowered the opacity of the coastlines before to check it and in the final image i will lower it or even disable it completaly. The same goes for mountains. As for the mountains colour, i am really struggling here. I have been jumping from one colour to the other (including grey) i just can't find the right tone.




> I love seeing everyone share their projects on here! I don't know one thing about designing maps, but I wonder how much knowledge of geology and the like has to go in to this kind of thing. I mean, you guys who do this a lot, are there a lot of rules you have to follow to make a proper map? I only ask because I know someone who is being hired to make maps, but I don't know that she's been doing it long enough to learn these kinds of rules.
> I'm a writer, and I have been for over 10 years, so I know the rules in my craft. Cartography has a lot of these rules, doesn't it?
> 
> And by the way, I highly respect you all and your skills here!


Hey Lilian, welcome to the Guild.

You are right, there are a lot of rules that comes with the map creation, but you don't need to follow all of them. It all depends on on what kind of world you are creating and how close it is to the real one. People that want something really extra plausible, starts with tectonic plates which will define lands, oceans and mountains, then biomes, to determine what kind of climates will be on defferent parts of land. That gives better orientation where to put deserts, where savanna, where forests (and kind of trees) and so on and on. You also have to understand how rivers work. After an actual map is done, there is also set of rules for labeling  :Wink: 

That beeing said, a good mapper doesn't really have to follow all of them in my opinion. You just need a general knowledge from all those subjects to create a possbile looking piece of land for the eye. Especially when we are talking high fantasy setting map. A lot of rules can be bend because is it fantasy world after all. Still we have to keep our imagination on a leash and don't go too crazy. After all we used to judge by comparing with something that we get used to see every day. Creating a vast desert with a rich green forest inside will definately not be recieved well by so called "map critics"  :Very Happy: 

Anyway, there are people here that know much more than me about those rules, i advice to ask in Help section if you need more specific info.

And lastly... thank you !

----------


## Voolf

I have been super busy past two weeks and still will be for a while. I am missing so much good stuff here. I only check forum briefly while at work and don't have time to write a proper post.

So to make this quick, i am trying my skills in a illustration (i guess it is more of an illustration than a map). It is extremely hard but i have fun with this so far. It is a sketch with dirty linework. Trying to flush out the idea of what this supposed to be before commiting.

----------


## Greg

Great perspective, Voolf! And yeah, it's one of those pieces that's somewhere in between the two, but kinda combines the best of both, so looking forwards to how you continue with it!  :Very Happy: 

Love to see these mountain fortress type things!

----------


## Mouse

How do you do these things?  That's just incredible already, Voolf!

Looking forward to watching it grow  :Smile:

----------


## Ilanthar

Oh yeah!! I love when you're testing things, Voolf. This is very promising.

----------


## Meshon

> I have been super busy past two weeks and still will be for a while. I am missing so much good stuff here. I only check forum briefly while at work and don't have time to write a proper post.
> 
> So to make this quick, i am trying my skills in a illustration (i guess it is more of an illustration than a map). It is extremely hard but i have fun with this so far. It is a sketch with dirty linework. Trying to flush out the idea of what this supposed to be before commiting.
> 
> Attachment 103727


Okay, so rock faces are generally really hard, I am scared of them. Everytime. Lots of lines? Just a few? How do they connect? How much do I need to show.

This map/illustration really clearly shows the mass and space of the natural rock, I am so impressed. Thanks for sharing it.

Cheers,
Meshon

----------


## Voolf

> Great perspective, Voolf! And yeah, it's one of those pieces that's somewhere in between the two, but kinda combines the best of both, so looking forwards to how you continue with it! 
> 
> Love to see these mountain fortress type things!


True, still can't say it's a map... definately a great addition to a map though  :Very Happy: 




> How do you do these things?  That's just incredible already, Voolf!
> 
> Looking forward to watching it grow


Stop it you..., i feel like i can draw a single line and you still will be overjoyed  :Razz: 




> Oh yeah!! I love when you're testing things, Voolf. This is very promising.


Thanks !




> Okay, so rock faces are generally really hard, I am scared of them. Everytime. Lots of lines? Just a few? How do they connect? How much do I need to show.
> 
> This map/illustration really clearly shows the mass and space of the natural rock, I am so impressed. Thanks for sharing it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Meshon


Totally get you Meshon. I am now starting the proper lines and the mountains are looking so-so. It seems like i did better job with a simple sketch. It takes me forever to do just a couple of them right.

Here is a (more or less) full sketch.

----------


## Wired

> I have been super busy past two weeks and still will be for a while. I am missing so much good stuff here. I only check forum briefly while at work and don't have time to write a proper post.
> 
> So to make this quick, i am trying my skills in a illustration (i guess it is more of an illustration than a map). It is extremely hard but i have fun with this so far. It is a sketch with dirty linework. Trying to flush out the idea of what this supposed to be before commiting.
> 
> Attachment 103727


Oh, using a grid to get the perspective right. Simple and effective idea! No wonder the thought didn't occur to me...  :Razz:

----------


## ThomasR

I keep postponing my comment to be more constructive but, heck ! That's gorgeous Rafal ! Keep them coming !

----------


## Voolf

So.... here is what i have after couple of days struggling with mountain. I must say this is harder than expected (considering sketch went more smoothly). I think i am overdoing the mountain lines. Problem is when i try to make less it somehow looks flat? I need more references to proceed with this.

----------


## Greg

I don't think you're overdoing the lines and you just need to trust that you're doing it right at this stage, as once the shading starts coming in, I think it'll balance itself much better.

Looking real nice, Rafal!  :Smile:

----------


## Mouse

I agree with Greg - superb.  Just needs a bit of shading to give it form.  The lines will merge with the shading then  :Wink:

----------


## ThomasR

Maybe touches of gray, say two tones, could get you the feel you're after. Just light touches to get depth but still keep the piece b&w.

----------


## MapMappingMapped

Oh! That's beautiful! I'm so envious of those who can make those cool isometric building maps.... This is going to look wonderful when it's done (not to mention as a sketch it looks soooo gorgeous!).

----------


## Voolf

Thanks for comments guys. I have decided to continue this as it is.

It is actually much harder to render the good perspective than i though. Sketch is a sketch, but when it comes to real linework you can start to see the imperfections all over the place.

This is where i am now with the illustration.

----------


## Azélor

> Sketch is a sketch, but when it comes to real linework you can start to see the imperfections all over the place.


Not yet!
Maybe after hatching the roofs, walls or the ground I will spot something but it look pretty consistent so far.

----------


## ThomasR

Seems like the rocks down the left tower are more detailed than the rest. Other than that, I'd make the lines of the buildings a bit uneven.

----------


## Voolf

> Not yet!
> Maybe after hatching the roofs, walls or the ground I will spot something but it look pretty consistent so far.


Yes, because i am trying to keep it that way, but doing so takes me so much time i really feel tired of this one.




> Seems like the rocks down the left tower are more detailed than the rest. Other than that, I'd make the lines of the buildings a bit uneven.


You are right Thom. I will redo some of the rock lines there. As for the buildings, i will not do them uneven, because i can't make them look good uneven. I was trying that making my other town maps and if i draw free hand on tablet the buildings are all skewed. If i ever get a display tablet, then maybe i will try again without straight lines.

----------


## ThomasR

If I may ... this might help you a bit, it definitely helped and stunned me. A bit long, maybe, but mesmerizing and damn instructive. Concentrate on the buildings straight parts. You can draw them full straight then on another layer, modify that slightly. Who said cheating ain't permitted  :Smile:

----------


## Mouse

It is all extremely beautiful, Voolf, but I think if you continue with the line work for too much longer you will get stuck on it and maybe make it a bit too detailed.  A lot of the form will lie in the shading and shadows.

----------


## Voolf

Thom, the problem is that the guy is using a layer with perfect forms from 3d soft. I don't.... but yes i could use the buildings right now as the base, make a new layer and draw again. I don't know if i want to do it though. I have to find a free and easy to use 3d soft to make those plans fast and dont worry about perspective while drawing. That would speed up. I am really tired of redrawing same shapes again and again :/

That being said, the video you just posed is so so great. I just had a glimpse and already know i can learn from it a lot. Thank you. I will see what i can do about the straight lines. I can't promise anything  :Razz: 

Mouse that is true. I do not intend to make more details for the mountain, buidings are mostly just outlined, i have to add more there.... still 1/3 of the drawing is not drawn yet, so i have to continue with the line work  :Very Happy:

----------


## Voolf

Ok i am moving the stronghld illustration to a separate thread. I think i won't finish this soon and i don't want to junk this thread with too many updates of same map. Everyone who is following this please go here. Thank you

And here, because it is a miscellaneous art have a look at my DnD Thiefling



Some people may have already seen it on Discord. Not very strong in drawing humans so i had to look for a pose for reference :/
He is a barbarian totem warrior. He draws an inner power from his bear totem medalion while raging  :Very Happy:

----------


## Voolf

Another sketchy-thingy for today.

----------


## ThomasR

That's a great one Rafal ! I really love the watercolor style and the needle is a wonderful setting. Do you plan on adding a background or doing another piece with more like this ? I see you followed Dain's advice and it paid off  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

> That's a great one Rafal ! I really love the watercolor style and the needle is a wonderful setting. Do you plan on adding a background or doing another piece with more like this ? I see you followed Dain's advice and it paid off


I am thinkng of doing this one with more precise lines again. Sure some background would be nice too. I will think about it. 
Yes, i made that in 3point perspective as Dain suggested in my other thread. I am glad you think it looks good.
Thank you for the rep and... since you already know i don't have to poke you about Drivethru  :Wink: . Thank you again !

----------


## ThomasR

I'd say the fluffiness of the lines adds to the piece and gives an foggy atmosphere.

----------


## Voolf

Proper version is coming to life !



Red lines are still sketch to redraw

----------


## Mouse

What an amazing imagination you have, Voolf - coupled with an ability to draw it all so well  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

> What an amazing imagination you have, Voolf - coupled with an ability to draw it all so well


That is actually based on phenomenal tianzi mountains in China. Can not give a credit to my imagination this time  :Very Happy:

----------


## Mouse

You are, as always, impossibly modest  :Razz:

----------


## kacey

This is awesome Voolf, I can't wait to see it with color.

----------


## J.Edward

This one is already very cool Voolf.
It will be interesting to see what more you do with it.  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Thanks for positive words guys

Not to spoil much, here is a update crop of first colours and some shades

----------


## Ilanthar

Very nice!

----------


## Voolf

I am kinda lost with this. Wanted to make background with low saturated colours but it just doesn't work... I don't know how to make that messy non-important yet nice blend in background :/

----------


## ThomasR

Have you tried blurring the background ? Like in a photography ?

----------


## Voolf

Thanks Thom. I don't think bluring is what i am after, but I will play around and see what outcome it will give me.

----------


## ThomasR

Maybe add ribbons of fog.

----------


## Ilanthar

> *By Voolf*
> Thanks Thom. I don't think bluring is what i am after, but I will play around and see what outcome it will give me.


What is it you're aiming for, Voolf?

----------


## Voolf

> What is it you're aiming for, Voolf?


Haha, yes that is the problem. Maybe I don't know what i am aiming for...  :Very Happy: 

Honestly, for some time i am trying to do a map in low saturated colours, something like Schley or J.E. maps where there is a lot parchment bleeding through, but i have no idea how to achive that. I tend to colour more and more because i feel like there is too less colour and it just doesn't look right. In the end i have full colour map again beause i paint too much  :Very Happy:

----------


## ThomasR

Dunno if you already have checked this but on his Skenara map, John shared his color palette (and it's amazing how few colors there are !). You could start from this.

----------


## Mouse

There's a lot more grey in your colours than in either JE or Schley.  Try starting with all out fully saturated colours and increasing transparency of the colour layer.  Only add grey after that if they are still too bright for your taste  :Wink:

----------


## Ilanthar

I tend to use "overlay" or "multiply" layer settings with a very low opacity (between 15 to 30%), and to use some very dark colors. Thomas & Mouse have it, I think, the color palette & the choice of the parchment do the most part of the job, I think.

----------


## J.Edward

It took me a while to find it, but here's where I showed the colors from Skenara and Pelmora.
https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...l=1#post328403
It really does matter what paper or paper texture you use behind the color.
If you use plain white, it loses a lot.
And all color layers need to be some form of transparent - in effect - multiply, color burn, overlay, softlight, etc.
So the paper texture underneath can show through.
So no opaque color layers.

Unless you are working in reverse order...
where line work is the top layer.
In that case you would have all of you color layers and then you would put a texture layer over top of those and likely set it to multiply to get that feeling of paper texture.
That is usually harder to do but faster, and also more imprecise and prone to error.

----------


## Voolf

Thank you all for advices. Such a big help.

I think i can't pick the right colours for the job. I also don't have good textures, it is hards to find good hi-res and the ones i got are missing something.
I also don't know should i fill in very bright colour and then shade with black multiply layer, or just darken the shaded parts with same more darker colour?

----------


## Mouse

Hot strong colours bring something closer to the front, and cool grey colours send things to the back.  Contrast and detail in the foreground always need to be greater, and recede into the background.

Even in a photograph you can see that the horizon is paler, bluer, and less distinct than the rosy red apple with a strong shiny highlight in the foreground.  

Maybe look for a colour scheme first, then even sample colours from that image, and use them in your map.  It doesn't have to be the same colour as the actual place.  You could do it all in shades of blue, lavender and orange, or whatever takes your fancy - as long as the colours read right.  In other words if you choose an image to sample colours from that happens to be a landscape, use the foreground colours in the foreground of your map, and the background colours in the background of your map.

I have an appointment in half an hour, or I would draw you a simple landscape to show you what I meant....

EDIT: apart from the hard line along the ridge of mountains in the background (which partly destroys the sense of depth in this painting in my humble opinion), this image by Johnathan Harris illustrates most of those points - cool pale colours in the distance, hot contrasting colours in the foreground.  More detail and contrast in the foreground.

https://fineartamerica.com/featured/...an-harris.html

These paintings by Kristan Baggaley all demonstrate the same, and might provide a little inspiration for the colour scheme 

http://www.derwentgallery.com/kristanbaggaley.htm

----------


## Voolf

> Hot strong colours bring something closer to the front, and cool grey colours send things to the back.  Contrast and detail in the foreground always need to be greater, and recede into the background.
> 
> Even in a photograph you can see that the horizon is paler, bluer, and less distinct than the rosy red apple with a strong shiny highlight in the foreground.  
> 
> Maybe look for a colour scheme first, then even sample colours from that image, and use them in your map.  It doesn't have to be the same colour as the actual place.  You could do it all in shades of blue, lavender and orange, or whatever takes your fancy - as long as the colours read right.  In other words if you choose an image to sample colours from that happens to be a landscape, use the foreground colours in the foreground of your map, and the background colours in the background of your map.
> 
> I have an appointment in half an hour, or I would draw you a simple landscape to show you what I meant....
> 
> EDIT: apart from the hard line along the ridge of mountains in the background (which partly destroys the sense of depth in this painting in my humble opinion), this image by Johnathan Harris illustrates most of those points - cool pale colours in the distance, hot contrasting colours in the foreground.  More detail and contrast in the foreground.
> ...


Thank you Mouse, this is cool. I am basicly familiar with the pale colours in the background of scenery. This is why i wanted to make the background in low saturated tones to make simillar effect. It just seems i lack the skills for that now. Maybe going with one colour as you suggested you be good thing to try.

----------


## Mouse

Not one colour only (unless you particularly want to, of course), but you could keep it really simple and work with two - or four.  For example two tones of blue/bluegreen in the background, and two tones of some relatively strong reddish-orangish-yellowish colour in the foreground?

Trees tend to be warmer yellow green in the foreground, and much paler more greyish blue-green in the background.

----------


## jshoer

Have you tried reducing the opposite of the LINES in the background? That would have the effect of making the background appear less sharp to the eye without applying a blur.

----------


## Voolf

Here is a chunk of something i scribble now and then when i am tired of other projects. Not much, but it's a start.

----------


## Mouse

That's looking beautiful, Voolf  :Smile: 

Always jealous of your mountains -  and I know I always say that, but its true  :Razz:

----------


## snodsy

Rally love the boulders and shading on this one, beautiful work again!

----------


## qhqhTerra

Very good mountain!

----------


## Voolf

> That's looking beautiful, Voolf 
> 
> Always jealous of your mountains -  and I know I always say that, but its true


Thank you Mouse. Those are drawn rather sloppy, haven't put much effort, so i am glad you still thinks it looks good  :Smile: 




> Rally love the boulders and shading on this one, beautiful work again!


Thanks snodsy.




> Very good mountain!


Thank you
どうも。

----------


## Voolf

Unother update of latest scribble. 



I am being lazy and just put everyting here lately, should i make separate wip threads?

----------


## Mouse

Well it doesn't seem to me like you've forgotten your world style (referring to your comment on the Patreon thread)!

It looks very much like you are combining it with all the things you've picked up since those early days and made it even better than before  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> Well it doesn't seem to me like you've forgotten your world style (referring to your comment on the Patreon thread)!
> 
> It looks very much like you are combining it with all the things you've picked up since those early days and made it even better than before


Ah, right. I was not precise enough. I was used to put linework on top of brownish parchment and do the shade/light, then apply colours with diferent kind of blending layers. I don't remember when was the last time i was doing that, LOL. Now i just work with flat colours and multiply layers.

But i intend to do this one simillar to land of verda, at least i will try to  :Very Happy:

----------


## MapMappingMapped

Looks super-promising! I really like the style, it feels J.Edwardy while sticking to your own style!

----------


## Ilanthar

It's looking very nice  :Smile: ! I like a lot your scale-like topography in the middle peninsula.
Not so sure about the lone trees.

----------


## Voolf

> It's looking very nice ! I like a lot your scale-like topography in the middle peninsula.
> Not so sure about the lone trees.


I like them, i feel like they work on my Dal-Nagul B&W map, but you may not be wrong here. I think they will stand out as odd to the entire style when i colour the map. I will probably erase them.

----------


## Ilanthar

They are very well done. I think a sort of transition - forests -> small group of trees -> lone trees - would look more natural, though.

----------


## Voolf

Ok, almost done with the lines for the landmass. Couple corrections and i will have to think about border and decorations.

----------


## Mouse

Perfection.

But then it usually is when you turn your attention to a regional map  :Wink:

----------


## ThomasR

I love teh variety of features on this map and, like Ilanthar said it, the scale mountains are a blast !

----------


## Josiah VE

Lovely map Voolf! Since your first map here I've always been a huge fan of your precise, outstanding linework, and your bushy forests.  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Thanks for the encouraging comments guys.

Here is the first update with some shade and light on mountains.

----------


## Arimel

Looks good! It must have taken awhile seeing how many mountains there are! 

Question though, on the bottom right side of the map there is a lake (at least I think it is a lake. It could be a hole straight through the world though for all I know  :Smile: ) that stands out a bit more than the others. Is this simply cliffs on the edges or is there something else there? Also, if it is a lake with cliffs, it seems a bit weird how the river interacts with it. I would have expected the river to turn into it since it looks a bit lower than the river. 
Please let me know though if I am misinterpreting this though.

----------


## ThomasR

I suspected it was gonna be epic, now I'm sure of it !

----------


## MistyBeee

Hmm I love every detail of the line work, but especially the reliefs in the South-East and your hills. It'a a pleasure to see the map coming along  :Smile:

----------


## kacey

It’s beautiful Voolf, even in this unfinished state I could still spend hours just staring at it.

----------


## fol2dol

No matter style you try, it's always amazing!
Thanks for sharing it with us  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> Looks good! It must have taken awhile seeing how many mountains there are! 
> 
> Question though, on the bottom right side of the map there is a lake (at least I think it is a lake. It could be a hole straight through the world though for all I know ) that stands out a bit more than the others. Is this simply cliffs on the edges or is there something else there? Also, if it is a lake with cliffs, it seems a bit weird how the river interacts with it. I would have expected the river to turn into it since it looks a bit lower than the river. 
> Please let me know though if I am misinterpreting this though.


Yes, it is a lake with cliffs aroud it. I wanted to experiment a little and come up with couple ravines there. The lake is a huge depression (below sea level). The idea was that the ravine leads river first to the depression because it is same level as ravine, but when the lake is full, the river overflow south out of ravine. I agree that is is not best representation. It is rather hard to depict it pausibly for the human eye in this scale. Nevertheless i like to experiment with new things. Failures are best way to learn  :Wink: 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about it.




> I suspected it was gonna be epic, now I'm sure of it !





> Its beautiful Voolf, even in this unfinished state I could still spend hours just staring at it.





> No matter style you try, it's always amazing!
> Thanks for sharing it with us


Thank you guys. It is my pleasure to post some WIPs fol2dol. I learn so much from your WIPs, so i feel like i have to return the favour  :Wink: 




> Hmm I love every detail of the line work, but especially the reliefs in the South-East and your hills. It'a a pleasure to see the map coming along


Thanks Misty. Those hills are something new i am trying now in maps. I am glad you like them.

----------


## Voolf

Most likely i will have to put this aside for a while and switch to different project, so next udapte may take a while.

I deepened shadows on mountains and then made light brighter. It may look too white now, but it will darken when i add colour.

I also did the shade on forests. Colours change the value of light and shade when you later put it on top of your background parchment (unless you work with colour blending option), so to help me with the right shade tone i first painted it colour, then did the shadows. They're still missing light.

----------


## ChickPea

It's looking fantastic.

----------


## Voolf

> It's looking fantastic.


Thank you ChickPea

Now fighting with the colours. Always the toughest part for me. It takes me several approcheas to actually nail down the right colour saturation and tone. Small steps but slowly moving forward.

----------


## Mouse

I think you may have got the colours just right in that second map anyway!  :Smile: 

The map is stunning  :Very Happy:

----------


## Voolf

> I think you may have got the colours just right in that second map anyway! 
> 
> The map is stunning


Mouse i read your comment couple times and i can't quite get what you mean  :Very Happy: 

Both crops are different parts of the map. First is gonna be rocky and barren, hence grey colour, second is abundant with flora, so i used green. You mean that the colour looks ok on the second crop but the first one is a no-go ?  :Very Happy:

----------


## ThomasR

I love the red bushed between the scale-like mountains !

----------


## Mouse

> Mouse i read your comment couple times and i can't quite get what you mean 
> 
> Both crops are different parts of the map. First is gonna be rocky and barren, hence grey colour, second is abundant with flora, so i used green. You mean that the colour looks ok on the second crop but the first one is a no-go ?


Oh - I thought those were two different maps!  LOL!

The colours of the second crop are lovely, but that doesn't mean the first crop is wrong.  If that's bare rock then its great - maybe a little more variation in the greys?  Rock is all kinds of grey, but its probably something you've already tried and discarded as a bad idea  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

> Oh - I thought those were two different maps!  LOL!
> 
> The colours of the second crop are lovely, but that doesn't mean the first crop is wrong.  If that's bare rock then its great - maybe a little more variation in the greys?  Rock is all kinds of grey, but its probably something you've already tried and discarded as a bad idea


Yes i tried that, but can not get it right. As a matter of fact i really strugge with this one. I cant get the colours right at all. Either map is too dark or too white. I may actually give up this one, or take a really long break

----------


## J.Edward

Maybe it is due to the parchment being darker.
That can really affect how colors look on a background.
As an example, many of mine would look wrong if I change the background color.
That's due to them being multiply layers.

----------


## Mouse

Try a second fractionally more purply deep water colour.  Maybe the shallow could then be edged towards aqua (closer to the green of the land), for purple-green harmony. 

Colours aren't the easiest things to play with.  Sometimes I google 'green paintings', 'blue paintings', colourful paintings, or something like that - steal colour ideas from other people's work.  You could try that?  Remember also that if you happen to like a painting you see for its colours, the balance is just as important.  For example, if you find a glorious blue painting with a small amount of yellowish orange in it, the colours won't look any good used in an artwork where the proportion of those colours is different - where there is the same amount of both, or more of the yellowish orange than the blue.

You could even use that second extract to do an image search for similar images - see what you can find that is almost but not quite the same colour balance.  Sometimes things can look wrong but only be very slightly 'off'.

I still really like that second sample.

----------


## DanielHasenbos

I think you've pretty much nailed the colours, especially in that second crop. I don't really see a need to change it. I can imagine that the barren area looks a bit flat to you, especially considering you've probably spend a good amount of time staring at it. However, to my eyes, it looks just fine.

----------


## Voolf

> Maybe it is due to the parchment being darker.
> That can really affect how colors look on a background.
> As an example, many of mine would look wrong if I change the background color.
> That's due to them being multiply layers.


Yes, parchment affect the colours and "evevation" of the land made by shade. I tried to edit it so it does not break some elements of the map.
I *think* the map looks good just with the parchemnt, but when i add colours some areas are off.




> Try a second fractionally more purply deep water colour.  Maybe the shallow could then be edged towards aqua (closer to the green of the land), for purple-green harmony. 
> 
> Colours aren't the easiest things to play with.  Sometimes I google 'green paintings', 'blue paintings', colourful paintings, or something like that - steal colour ideas from other people's work.  You could try that?  Remember also that if you happen to like a painting you see for its colours, the balance is just as important.  For example, if you find a glorious blue painting with a small amount of yellowish orange in it, the colours won't look any good used in an artwork where the proportion of those colours is different - where there is the same amount of both, or more of the yellowish orange than the blue.
> 
> You could even use that second extract to do an image search for similar images - see what you can find that is almost but not quite the same colour balance.  Sometimes things can look wrong but only be very slightly 'off'.
> 
> I still really like that second sample.


Thanks Mouse. The water does affect the whole thing as you said, but i can deal with it. Problem is, with those closer regional maps with a lot of mountains i have hard time to actucually shade some parts of the land and have no idea what colour i shold pick for it. It just doesnt look good.




> I think you've pretty much nailed the colours, especially in that second crop. I don't really see a need to change it. I can imagine that the barren area looks a bit flat to you, especially considering you've probably spend a good amount of time staring at it. However, to my eyes, it looks just fine.


Thanks Daniel. The two crops are actually only ones i felt confident enough to post as "almost" done. The problem is with the rest of the map, unfortunately :/

I marked the upper part which i have the most problems with, but honestly when i look at whole map, it just looks off. Don't mind the forests, they need to be redone too  :Razz:

----------


## Mouse

Voolf - I adore your maps.  They are always beautiful to me no matter what colour they are, so I hope you won't mind... 

I could hear what I thought was despair in your written 'voice', so I tried something with the last map you uploaded to see if I could help in any way.  What follows is a series of 3 operations I tried for you.  I went deliberately too far each time because I don't believe you actually need to change it this much, and please bear in mind that these are operations carried out on the whole map in one layer.

First, I added more magenta and yellow to your map - the whole thing



Then, I managed to select just the sea and I turned it several shades more purple around the colour wheel.



Finally, I reversed the selection to just the land and decreased the brightness and increased the contrast.



I am not saying that this is what it should look like.  Indeed, these are not the colours we normally associate with your work.  I am just trying to help you see that colour is not your enemy. Most drawings would never survive this kind of mutilation, but your drawings are so beautiful and incredibly well balanced, tonally speaking, that it seems impossible to destroy them  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> I am not saying that this is what it should look like.  Indeed, these are not the colours we normally associate with your work.  I am just trying to help you see that colour is not your enemy. Most drawings would never survive this kind of mutilation, but your drawings are so beautiful and incredibly well balanced, tonally speaking, that it seems impossible to destroy them


You are being too kind, but i will take that leap of faith to believe blindly what you have said and just go with it. Thank you for the experiments. I appreciate you testing. I may be too harsh on myself...

----------


## Mouse

LOL!

Voolf!  You are ALWAYS being too harsh on yourself.

Lets put it this way.  If the colours were not already there, painted there by you, then my experiments would have failed, because all I have done is mess around with the balance tone and contrast.

The colours are already there.  You put them there yourself  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Few weeks ago i made a B&W dungeon and because it was warmly received by many, i decided to make another one.

Wip dungeon without a name yet.


I am also working on a new commission. Continental map for roleplay game. It is gonna be in my usual style.

Some crops

----------


## ThomasR

Nice ones !

----------


## Voolf

I have been posting some latest wip crops over the twitter recently, but forgot i had this miscellaneous thread here too  :Smile: 

This will be a regional map. Just a personal project to keep myself busy and try new things.

  >    >

----------


## ThomasR

Really nice but I'm a bit sad you buried Ilanthar in the desert  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> Really nice but I'm a bit sad you buried Ilanthar in the desert


Muahahaha..... You are next on my list  :Very Happy:

----------


## Ilanthar

:Surprised:  Whhhhaaaat !??
Damnit, if only I had turned left, I would have found the river & lake in time  :Very Happy: 

More seriously, great work already. I certainly like the diversity of lands!

----------


## Voolf

> Whhhhaaaat !??
> Damnit, if only I had turned left, I would have found the river & lake in time 
> 
> More seriously, great work already. I certainly like the diversity of lands!


Actually, that part of land is not a desert and the lizard died of old age comfortably in the sleep  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Linework almost done.

----------


## Adfor

Safe to say that your line work is some of my favorite around here, lovely work so far!

----------


## arsheesh

Browsing through your map creation work-flow and seeing how your maps develop from linework to finished product has been very inspiring.  Makes me want to grab my tablet and start on a new project!  Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

----------


## Voolf

> Safe to say that your line work is some of my favorite around here, lovely work so far!


Thank you very much Adfor  :Smile: 




> Browsing through your map creation work-flow and seeing how your maps develop from linework to finished product has been very inspiring.  Makes me want to grab my tablet and start on a new project!  Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Arsheesh


That is great! Share some Wips, i would be eager to see how you work on your maps from scratch  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Working on a personal project right now and it's going soooooo sloooow. I started this already a month and half ago, but somehow can't concentrate on it. Drawing grass on such a big map is taking forever  :Razz: 

This is overall sketch



And this is a crop from the central island. I am currently doing land (grass, small hills and other non mountain/forest things) Respect for J.E. it takes so much time to do a map in this style. Going crazy over the grass already  :Very Happy:

----------


## Ilanthar

Nice and promising  :Smile: ! I can see J.Edward's influence, notably on the plains & grass.
And yup, I tend to believe in the superhuman abilities of Sir Inkman  :Wink: .

----------


## MapMappingMapped

Looks neat! I love the contrast between the sharp lines of the forests and the smoother ones of the mountains.

----------


## Mouse

More beautiful work, Voolf  :Very Happy: 

I also find it inspiring to watch - like Arsheesh.  

Whenever I hit a 'low' on the drawing front I come here to look at your beautiful work  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

> Nice and promising ! I can see J.Edward's influence, notably on the plains & grass.
> And yup, I tend to believe in the superhuman abilities of Sir Inkman .


Hehe, you and me both  :Very Happy: 




> Looks neat! I love the contrast between the sharp lines of the forests and the smoother ones of the mountains.


Thanks. The lines will be adjusted actually in the last stages.




> More beautiful work, Voolf 
> 
> I also find it inspiring to watch - like Arsheesh.  
> 
> Whenever I hit a 'low' on the drawing front I come here to look at your beautiful work


That is nice to hear. Thank you Mouse

----------


## Gidde

That border is gorgeous! I can't wait to see it fleshed out more.

----------


## Voolf

Last project is done (if you havent seen it yet, it's posted here) and so it's time to move to another one.

Much time has passed since my one and only isometric town on cliff illustration (Raum's Stonghold). I decided it's time do try someting simillar again, but maybe touch less time consuming. Still pespective buildings are my greatest fear while mapping. Let's see how far i can go with this.

----------


## MistyBeee

Yey, perspective ! Hang in there ! ^^

----------


## Voolf

> Yey, perspective ! Hang in there ! ^^


Thanks Bee  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

A little progress in the sketch.

----------


## Mouse

Oh this is looking really cool already  :Smile: 

I'm thinking I need to take a few lessons from you before I start doing my overland city and town symbols  :Wink:

----------


## Ilanthar

I really like where you're going with this! Thanks for sharing, Rafal!

----------


## Voolf

> Oh this is looking really cool already 
> 
> I'm thinking I need to take a few lessons from you before I start doing my overland city and town symbols


Thanks, but i think you better go to MityBee, she is the one that makes miraculus iso buildings.




> I really like where you're going with this! Thanks for sharing, Rafal!


You are wery welcome.

----------


## Voolf

Half of the buildings' plan is done.

----------


## Voolf

Almost done with the sketch.

----------


## ThomasR

It's gonna end up gloriously, I can feel it  :Wink:

----------


## Mouse

I have no idea how you manage to visualise this stuff without using a 3D app to build it first.  The rooftops always 'get' me when I try it without that kind of aid.

Your 'artist's eye' is superb  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

> It's gonna end up gloriously, I can feel it


Hehe we will see  :Very Happy: 




> I have no idea how you manage to visualise this stuff without using a 3D app to build it first.  The rooftops always 'get' me when I try it without that kind of aid.
> 
> Your 'artist's eye' is superb


I have literally like 10 reference images with different buildings around the canvas to help me come up with struff. It's not all from just head  :Very Happy: 
Thank you.

----------


## - JO -

I love your lineart !!!

----------


## Ilanthar

Oh yeah!!! The perfect balance between details and legibility.

----------


## Voolf

Thank you all.

I started making proper linework. I know some of you hate straight lines, but it's just easier for me to maitain relatively good perspective, not having skew buildings, etc.

----------


## Voolf

My ISO town district is moving forward slowly, I should have the linework done sometime next week, but in the meantime I wanted to share something different.
I recently finished video game called Journey and was inspired by it to doodle something.
It was a good "pen & ink" practice. I love those kinds of illustrations.

----------


## Mouse

I love the doodle!

I think I might be seeing things wrong, but that tower roof in the village feels to me like its tilting slightly down at the closest corner..  Is it just me?

----------


## Voolf

> I love the doodle!
> 
> I think I might be seeing things wrong, but that tower roof in the village feels to me like its tilting slightly down at the closest corner..  Is it just me?


Maybe, I haven't used any grid to help me with perspective. I hope it will not stand out much in the finished product.

----------


## Mouse

I'm probably wrong.  I can do ordinary perspective without any problems, but isometric still gives me a bit of a headache unless I use Sketchup to 'visualise' it.

----------


## GodofMoxie

The journey is great and somehow mapping is the perfect fanart medium, nice work.

----------


## Voolf

> The journey is great and somehow mapping is the perfect fanart medium, nice work.


Thank you Moxie  :Smile:

----------


## Voolf

Finally done with the linework! Well except the inset layout map, but that will be done fast.
Now let's splash some colours  :Smile:

----------


## Caenwyr

Rafal, that is just gorgeous!

----------


## SteffenBrand

Looks incredible so far, wonderful! =)

----------


## Wingshaw

That is indeed a beautiful drawing, Voolf. If I may offer one small critique (and, really, this is so nice that my critique is indeed small): I think your roof tiles seem too neat and similar. A couple of cracked, broken, loose tiles, or variation in size and materials might enhance the scene. Looking forward to seeing the next stage  :Smile: 

Wingshaw

----------


## Voolf

> That is indeed a beautiful drawing, Voolf. If I may offer one small critique (and, really, this is so nice that my critique is indeed small): I think your roof tiles seem too neat and similar. A couple of cracked, broken, loose tiles, or variation in size and materials might enhance the scene. Looking forward to seeing the next stage 
> 
> Wingshaw


Thanks for the suggestion. I absolutely agree. The thing is, it's hard for me to do the tiling for some reason. After couple expermients I always tend to go back to that even tiling style. I erased some of them at the end to break that evenness a little.
Btw. I finished the illustration. You can see in in the Finished Map section. Thank you all for comments.

----------


## Voolf

It is been a while since i posted anything here, so i thought i will share couple of wips of the newest dungeon map I am making right now.
Hope you like it.











Last step - shading! Will be sharing this in the Finished Map section when done.

Cheers

----------


## Falconius

Interesting dungeon.  I always appreciate when dungeons have alignment variations.  Looks great.

----------


## LunaticDesign

Really nice maps! I like how you separate natural stone walls a great deal

----------


## Voolf

> Interesting dungeon.  I always appreciate when dungeons have alignment variations.  Looks great.





> Really nice maps! I like how you separate natural stone walls a great deal


Thank you guys. Always appreciate your comments.



This year I am going to do another Guild City district, but before that, here is a little warm up before that.







The sketch design looked nice, but as I am filling in more buildings i like it less and less for some reason. 
This suppose to be much bigger map, but i have decided to cut it in half now and do something bigger for the actual guild ward.

----------


## Adfor

Oh I love this Voolf, I have such admiration for your clean style and the way you vary building structures. I often get stuck in a rut of using the same building style without much variance, which is a problem area I've been working on.

What's your secret?  :Question: 

IR

----------


## Voolf

> Oh I love this Voolf, I have such admiration for your clean style and the way you vary building structures. I often get stuck in a rut of using the same building style without much variance, which is a problem area I've been working on.
> 
> What's your secret? 
> 
> IR


Hey Adfor

This style is going back a few years when we have started GuildCity Community project and J.E. was doing this zoom in beautiful buildings and many of us were inspired by him back then. He is the master of those  :Smile: 
I like this zoom in city roofs, but they take much time because you need to draw a lot of details to make it look nice.

As for the variety, I do too struggle a lot to come up with something nice. That is why i do not do many city maps to begin with. One great advice i can pass along (also from J.E. is to use google satelite maps and look on the real city layouts and roofs. That is a good reference, but it takes practice to start throwing different buildings on your own on fly, unfortunately.

----------


## Voolf

Almost finished with the buildings. Next some vegetation here and there, then colouring and shading.

----------


## Voolf

Finished lines for this little town, now time for colours and shades.

----------


## Voolf

Most of the shades is done. I have to add a bit of texture to the roof now. Just started it. I also want to redo the crest a little, because i dont like it so much  :Razz:

----------


## Mouse

Pop!  And there it is.

Your shadows are excellent, Voolf  :Very Happy:

----------


## Voolf

> Pop!  And there it is.
> 
> Your shadows are excellent, Voolf


Thank you very much Mouse. Good to see you on CG. You seem to be very busy lately.

----------


## Mouse

Thank you  :Smile: 

I'm about to start a new job next week - nothing to do with mapping but never mind, eh.  Strangely, it means that I won't have to be spending 35 hours a week job searching any more and may actually have more time on my hands to do what I love.  Odd how that happens isn't it.

----------


## Voolf

> Thank you 
> 
> I'm about to start a new job next week - nothing to do with mapping but never mind, eh.  Strangely, it means that I won't have to be spending 35 hours a week job searching any more and may actually have more time on my hands to do what I love.  Odd how that happens isn't it.


That's nice. I am glad things will get better for you  :Smile:

----------


## Jaxilon

Looking good Voolf.

@Mouse congrats on the new job. It sounds like you were seriously looking hard so glad you got something lined up.  As far as it NOT being map related I wouldn't sweat that. I heard an artist talking about how he'd rather have a job that didn't burn out his creative side so he could use it when he got home. So maybe not so bad of a thing.

----------


## Voolf

> Looking good Voolf.


Thanks Jax. I missed your post :/

Finished map is here btw  :Wink: 


After many updates the Affinity Photo seems to be working well now with my tablet now. So I am thinking of giving it a test ride.
I have started some regional map thowing stuff randomly here and there. The linework is going fine. Not much difference from workin in Krita.
The shading and coouring part may be much more interesting as Affinity Photo has some really interesting brushes I am eager to try out.

----------


## Voolf

Here is something i am working on now. It's kinda big and is going so slowly.... ;(

----------


## Arimel

The map is looking great already but due to its size I can imagine it progressing slowly. The annotations were fun to read though! Now if only there was a way to find the border...

----------


## Voolf

Thanks Arimel.
I posted this map previusly with border on my Twitter acc.
Here are the rest of the wips i have posted so far.

----------


## Voolf

It's been some time since i posted here.
I thought I will put some WIPs of my latest personal project. 
It's going to be a regional map. I am still undecided whether i will colour it or not.
Not sute about the border too. Probably i will leave it as a simple parchment map, unless i got some nice border idea. It is not my forte though.

Full map


And 2 close ups

----------


## Ilanthar

You have such an efficiency to depict the lands, and those forests...

----------

