# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  Dragon Lance DL1 Dungeon Map - Old School

## MadCartographer

I have been trying my hand at drawing some "old school blue" maps from torstan's TUT on how to make an old school map.

This map is from the old TSR 9130 Dragon Lance - Dragons of Despair.  
(I also need someone to show me how to do the "thumb" size that links to the large size map).

This map is only the layout.

If this is copyright material, let me know and I'll remove this.  It says "Permission granted to photocopy or print this product for personal use".   (I dont want to do anything illeagle).  

*Ok, I modified the dungeon so as I wont infringe on any copyright stuff.*

Ok this is complete!

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## tilt

looks good  :Smile: 
to create a thumb you click "go advanced", then "manage attachment", "add files", and then just press done - the system will automatically make the thumb.
concerning the copyright of the stuff - I know Wizards have put a lot of old stuff out to free use - so if its amongst that, I'm guessing you're safe. If it's not I'll have to check with the more experienced CL's what the rules are  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

I'll check thier site too, to see if it's on a list somewhere.  And thanks for the info on the thumbs.

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## rdanhenry

Personal use means you can make your own copy to pencil in changes for your campaign or cut up to give your players a room at a time. Putting it on the web is publishing and about as far from private use as you can get. Not that I expect WOTC/Hasbro will really care, but unless it has been specifically released for general use, this is a copyright violation. (Disclaimer: The previous is my own best understanding of copyright law. I am, however, not a lawyer, and this is not intended as legal advice. Should you need legal advice concerning a matter of intellectual property rights, consult a lawyer specializing in intellectual property law.)

"This map is from the old TSR 1931 Dragon Lance - Dragons of Despair. "
Wow, I didn't realize D&D was that old. :-)

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## tilt

lol... yeah.. so I went to wizards homepage to find the scenarios, took some time to find the page cause there navigation really sucks.. .they should hire someone like me to fix it *lol* ... but here it is: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/downloads 
Unfortunatly, the link to the old scenarios leads nowhere, if that is a mistake (which it should be since the link is there) or not I don't know. But nothing is for download at the moment.

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## tilt

The FAQ has some notes on the subject http://www.cartographersguild.com/fa...derivative_use

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## MadCartographer

I posted an email to WotC about this issue, if I get a "it's Copyrighted" back, I'll delete the image.  Actually, what ever they respond with, I'll post here.  Tilt,  should I delete the image until then?  I also dont want to get into trouble here.

Lee

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## tilt

you won't get trouble from us - you're doing the correct thing in asking, and yes please post the reply you get what ever it is  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

Here is thier reply:

Lee,

Thank you for contacting Wizards of the Coast regarding the usage of its intellectual property. Unfortunately, Wizards is unable to grant you permission to use its intellectual property in the manner you have requested.

Please let us know if you have any more questions!


I'll remove the image right now.

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## tilt

to bad, but good thing you asked  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

Yea, I'm going to make a nice map for this too.... so I can play it.  Oh well.

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## tilt

but if you wanna pratice the style and get critique, just make a similar map so you don't mess with any copyright - we'll all be glad to critique that  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

Good idea.   :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

Ok, I added an extra part in the dungeon.  I still need to add the doors.

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## MadCartographer

Ok, this version is comlete.

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## MadCartographer

Here is the 1st part as a BattleMap.  (EDIT I added the grid).

Comments are welcome.

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## MadCartographer

Added yet another section.

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## tilt

Your textures are tiling like crazy  :Smile:  ... try changing the scale on them to look like real floors etc  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

> Your textures are tiling like crazy  ... try changing the scale on them to look like real floors etc


I see what you mean... How's this look?

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## tilt

MUCH better  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

I added another section.

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## MadCartographer

Updated... Added a few more rooms etc...

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## MadCartographer

Updated pic.... Still a WIP.  

I need to finish the cavern on the right, and the lower section of the dungeon.
But now you can see the entire dungeon.

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## Jaxilon

I have to say it is looking very nice!

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## MadCartographer

> I have to say it is looking very nice!


Thanks Jaxilon, this is my 1st dungeon.  I'm a bit nervious about it.  But seems to be turning out ok.

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## tilt

looking good - strangly enough I can't see the last picture - it just loads as a white page, the one before that loads fine, the one before that is just white again... very strange. Haven't checked on my pc, but the mac is defintly having trouble... hmmm - can't figure out what should be wrong as they are both jpg's ?  but looking good  :Smile:

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## MadCartographer

Sorry I haven't updated this in a while.  New job and I'm in training.  Next 2 weeks schedule is:
start 2am, get back home around 6pm.  I'm tired just thinking about it!  I'll try to update it this weekend though.

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## MadCartographer

Updated, did not do much, but we still have the weekend.

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## MadCartographer

I forgot to turn on the effects!  DOH!

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## MadCartographer

UPDATED!  I did some work on the lower section... still have a long way to go, but it's getting there.
Sorry updates have been very slow but, work is crazy right now.... 2am - 6pm.... I get very tired.

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## MadCartographer

Almost done, I updated the dungeon today.  Hopefully I'll get it done in the next day or so.

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## Ascension

I really like what you've got going on here but the giant shadow sort of dominates everything to me.  Not sure what I'd do about that, though  :Blush:

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## MadCartographer

> I really like what you've got going on here but the giant shadow sort of dominates everything to me.  Not sure what I'd do about that, though


I agree, I havent found the right combination to do a shadow to make the map "dark" like a dungeon.... I'll keep trying though.

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## NeonKnight

Ok, so what exactly, are you trying to accomplish, and I will help you achieve the effect through manipulation of the sheet effects.

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## MadCartographer

> Ok, so what exactly, are you trying to accomplish, and I will help you achieve the effect through manipulation of the sheet effects.


I'm trying to make shadows on the entire map.... not like I currently have.  (looks like it's a castle and the shadows are displaying that way.  

This is a dungeon, and should be dark (shadows all over the place, .... then I can add torches and their effects.)  If you want me to send you the file, what email do you want me to send it too?

-lee

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## JDCt

Looking good, what are you using to make this map?

PS... I <3 the dragon  :Smile:

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## NeonKnight

to email me click on my name and choose email (should be able to attach I believe, if not I'll reply).

At the moment I am reinstalling CC3 (did a laptop reimage two days ago, still reloading software), but if you want to make the map look dark (two dark and it is difficult for a GM to use), your best bet is to make a layer that covers the map as a whole and fill it black and then set transparency to say 75% or there abouts.

Now, to NOT have this dark transperency show for the entire page (the white areas), your best method is to to make either the DARK TRANSPERENCY the same shape as the outer walls of the dungeon, or make a top sheet that is a multipoly with a 'hole' the same shap as the dungeon (this then 'covers' the area you wish to be white.

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## MadCartographer

Thanks JDCT, I'm using CC3.  I also love the dragon, I'm a big fan of dragons.

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## MadCartographer

Neon Knight, Message sent, and I'll try your ideas.... thanks!

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## MadCartographer

> your best bet is to make a layer that covers the map as a whole and fill it black and then set transparency to say 75% or there abouts.


This will work great! Thanks NeonKnight, I appreaciate your help. I'll post it when I can so you can see it.

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## MadCartographer

This is what I'm looking for, thanks NeonKnight for the help.

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## NeonKnight

Glad it worked out. After finally getting all the software installed (wasted a day with the old DD3 install because it wanted .NET Frameworks installed and did not recognise I already had it before I finally found out there is a NEW version of DD3 free for download for registered users that does NOT require .NET), I loaded your map to only find it would not locate your fill styles  :Frown: 

But, Yes I see you have found the fix.

Are you using the LINDA KEKUMU aditional BMP files?

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## MadCartographer

> Are you using the LINDA KEKUMU aditional BMP files?


No, I forget the name of the file but it's like the CSUAC file.  Lots of PNG files.  Wish I could remember the name of it.

But thanks NK for the help.
-lee

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## NeonKnight

Hmm...can't find them anymore online to download them.

Thank GOD I still have the zip file from WAAAAAAAY back when. 64 megs, should see if the guild'll let us host them.

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## Gamerprinter

Personally, while I like the idea of Dragonlance, and the map of the lands - that was the 'Mother of all Railroaded' adventures. Your character couldn't die until the adventure said so, and if you didn't want to die, there was no choice. While I loved the various DL books, they were great reads, the conversion to a D&D system for the storyline was in my mind, the worst adventure series ever in D&D history, due to its forced railroad structure.

Show me the map, and I'll enjoy it, but keep all thoughts of an RPG version of Dragonlance as far as you can from me - I literally hate that idea, that much. I hope to never see an adventure like DL ever again.

YMMV

GP

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## MadCartographer

> Personally, while I like the idea of Dragonlance, and the map of the lands - that was the 'Mother of all Railroaded' adventures. Your character couldn't die until the adventure said so, and if you didn't want to die, there was no choice. While I loved the various DL books, they were great reads, the conversion to a D&D system for the storyline was in my mind, the worst adventure series ever in D&D history, due to its forced railroad structure.
> 
> Show me the map, and I'll enjoy it, but keep all thoughts of an RPG version of Dragonlance as far as you can from me - I literally hate that idea, that much. I hope to never see an adventure like DL ever again.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> GP


I agree, but the map is just to cool, I had to make it.

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## MadCartographer

I am finished with this map. COMPLETE!

Now back to my Star Trek Deck Plans.

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## Jaxilon

Yep, that turned out really nice....the white is a bit blinding but if you were to drop it on a parchment type paper I don't think it would hurt any. Repped

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## MadCartographer

Ok I did as you suggested and put in a parchment paper type background.  Much better, thanks Jaxilon, great idea.

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