# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Software Discussion >  Campaign Cartographer Discounted at Bundle of Holding

## whipstache

The RPG bundle site BundleOfHolding.com is currently running a nice discount on CC3 and a couple add-ons.

If you've been contemplating purchasing CC3, now's a great time.


_Note: I'm not affiliated with the site in any way. Just trying to pass along a good deal to fellow mappers._

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## Mouse

LOL! You beat me to it, Whipstache  :Smile: 

Its a great deal  :Wink:

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## Errandir

It looks like a great deal (at least the basic software package, I'm less convinced by the second level). But I'm still conflicted about giving CC3+ a try (I'm starting out with mapping and also have to learn GIMP and give Inkscape a try). Lots of pro's and con's but it's hard to make up my mind. I haven't been able to find detailed info on what is actually included in the basic package in terms of styles and icons.

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## Mouse

The basic package is CC3+ and the Tome of Ultimate Mapping (or 'the Tome', as we tend to refer to it)

CC3 Plus (CC3+) is a vector app built on a FastCAD engine that uses bitmap symbols and vector polygons filled with bitmap textures.  That is a huge simplification, since its an enormously powerful app with hundreds of different tools.  That is where the famous learning curve comes into play - learning how and when to use the tools.  There are three main 'overland' styles built into CC3+.  An overland style is an isometric view style suitable for regional mapping, such as you might use to create a world, continent or region map.  There are a couple of examples here on the Profantasy page , where CC3+ is described in comparison with the older CC3 app.

CC3+ comes with a user manual that will get you started on the learning curve.  This is great for beginners, but if you wish to become really proficient with the software the Tome is the answer.  It has over 600 pages of brilliantly written and illustrated methods and is regarded as something of a bible among CC3ers.

I hope that helps a bit  :Smile:

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## Tonnichiwa

If you are wondering what the different overland mapping styles are for CC3+, I've made video's about the different overland styles so you can take a look at them. Sorry, my video's are not professionally done. And they are kind of boring but at least it lets you see what you get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwMb...P3qEoxAG6oQlQN

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## LordEntrails

> It looks like a great deal (at least the basic software package, I'm less convinced by the second level). But I'm still conflicted about giving CC3+ a try (I'm starting out with mapping and also have to learn GIMP and give Inkscape a try). Lots of pro's and con's but it's hard to make up my mind. I haven't been able to find detailed info on what is actually included in the basic package in terms of styles and icons.


If you let us know the types of maps you are interested in making, we can help let you know how CC3+ handles them.

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## Errandir

> If you are wondering what the different overland mapping styles are for CC3+, I've made video's about the different overland styles so you can take a look at them. Sorry, my video's are not professionally done. And they are kind of boring but at least it lets you see what you get.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwMb...P3qEoxAG6oQlQN


Thanks a lot Tonnichiwa, I hadn’t come across those videos yet. Very helpful. Sadly the standard styles aren’t completely my thing it seems. I’m hoping to make Tolkien/medieval styled fantasy maps which have elements of the following examples:

https://goo.gl/images/f8S4bm
https://www.cartographersguild.com/a...6&d=1522058182
https://goo.gl/images/5LKkGB
The maps from Jonathan Roberts are in a similar style I’d like to mimic: http://www.fantasticmaps.com/regional-maps/

There are a few Annuals with a nice similar style, like Pär Lindstrom’s B&W Overland one, but they are spread over several Annuals so it quickly adds up. I also want to improve my own drawing skill, so basically I want to use CC3+ as well as Gimp and Inkscape. In a way that should already answer my own question, as I cannot have the cake and eat it as well. But still I’m torn on whether or not to give CC3+ a try since it’s discounted.

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## Mouse

I use a combination of CC3, GIMP and Krita, with the odd dash of Sketchup, Blender and any other app I feel is the right tool for the job.

CC3+ makes it very easy to create your own style, with your own fills and symbols, but if this is not what you want maybe it would be a nice present for someone, since the price has been well and truly slashed  :Smile: 

Here are some of the hybrid maps I've made using my own fills and symbols in CC3+, and with additional work in a range of other apps.  Only 2 of the maps in this album never saw the inside of a CC3+ working window  :Wink: 

Although my styles don't go anywhere near the style of the maps you have chosen as examples, that is only because my preference is for powerful colours and semi-realism.

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## Errandir

Those are some amazing maps Sue! Indeed not all in my prefered style, but the combination with other elements such as lore, drawings, 3D elements, etc. is beautiful to see. I especially like the hanging gardens.

Perhaps there’s no fixed process you used, but may I ask how your workflow is when combining the different software packages? Like using Gimp/Krita to create custom symbols & distinctive elements like trees, and CC3 for the landscaping, roads and rivers etc.? A hybrid combination of handdrawing my ‘library’ in the raster and vector tools and using CC3+ for the placement and landscaping (perhaps with colour touch-ups in the other software) could be interesting. I’m not experienced enough yet to know if it’s going to be easier for me to do the creation of the lands etc. in the raster/vector tools or in CAD tools. Only one way to find out I guess.

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## Mouse

Thank you, Errandir  :Smile: 

The Hanging Gardens was completed entirely in GIMP using a method I call 'texture painting' involving lots of layer masks.  It is one of the two maps that never saw the inside of a CC3+ window.  _While I think of it - some of the textures I used in that map (notably the rock of the cliffs) are part of one of the vast collections of third party art supplied free at Vintyri which can be downloaded and installed on CC3+, but which may also be used in lots of different apps, not just CC3+.  The advantage of using the building symbols in those free sets in CC3+, however, is that the rooftops are automatically shaded according to the height and angle of CC3s global sun - cutting out a lot of hard work in other apps.
_
Possibly the best illustration of my method when using CC3+ in combination with GIMP is Scribble Rock.  The background of that map was done in GIMP - the ocean and the background grass (meaning the background was drawn in GIMP but using fills borrowed from CC3+).  I then imported the image into CC3 and did the rest of the mapping there - buildings, paths, trees, flowering shrubs, boats, text, labels, title, scale bar, frame and compass rose (a CC3+ symbol from the Herwin Wielink Style).  The buildings, trees and flowering shrubs are all my own home made symbol sets, which I created in GIMP and Blender (Blender trees), and imported to CC3+ in such a way as to make it possible to re-use them in any of my CC3 maps.

Gymnopus P was done entirely in CC3+, using no add ons or extras with only the addition of a home made forest texture, and a wood texture I made for the frame.

So to try and sum up my rather wordy comment:

My home made symbols are mostly created as drawings in GIMP and imported to CC3+, where I create catalogues of them for use in all my maps.The seamless textures I create in apps like GIMP, Krita (both free), and Genetica (not so free) are similarly imported and incorporated into my CC3+ softwareI often paint backgrounds in GIMP and import them into CC3+, where the important detail is added using vector drawing tools and symbols - some of them my own.

I can't tell you whether this would be the best way for anyone else to do their mapping - only that it works for me  :Smile:

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## waldronate

I recommend taking a look at some of the other annuals available from ProFantasy. https://www.profantasy.com/annual/2008/august08.html and https://www.profantasy.com/annual/2013/july13.html and https://www.profantasy.com/annual/2010/august10.html might be of interest to you. I'm particularly fond of the last one, but the second one is more likely to be closer to what you described.
I also recommend just browsing through the annuals catalog at the ProFantasy website for a little bit because they have a whole lot of style variations, especially for fantasy and overland mappers.

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## Errandir

Thanks for the tip Waldronate. I had a look at each Annual earlier this week and those particular months are indeed close to what I like. It's just a pity you have to get the entire Annual at 40$ to get the single style I'm after. I don't want to sound cheap, CC3+ is great and it makes sense that there's a cost, but to get just a few styles it adds up quickly. Being able to buy each seperate month for 8$ or so would be better for me, as I'm still trying out several types of workflow/software.

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## Mouse

There have been suggestions along that line before.

Maybe PF might do it that way one day?

I really don't know, since I'm only a user.

What I do know, however, is that the extremely beautiful Herwin Wielink style started off as an annual, but was eventually included in the basic CC3+ package in response to popular demand.  That is what I really like about Profantasy - they are far more responsive than a lot of the bigger software companies.

They are also one of the most generous profit-making companies I've ever known.  I don't think I remember there being a monthly newsletter without a relatively handsome voucher, and the Black Friday sales are just excellent.

EDIT:  No, I'm not being paid to say nice things!  LOL!  Just telling you what I know.

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## Errandir

Don't worry Sue, I'm happy to have your input! Thanks by the way for the description of your workflow, very insightful.
I'm still wavering, but as usual I probably will end up going for the lower tier Bundle of Holding so I at least have CC3+, and perhaps I'll wait for some discounts or Black Friday before getting the Annuals. Got a few days left to decide, who knows what new insights the weekend will bring...

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## Mouse

You're welcome  :Smile: 

I don't believe in being secretive about methods, since two people using exactly the same method will never draw exactly the same map  :Wink: 

If nothing else, take from me the wisdom given to me by Korash, one of our community leaders (in my own words) - that it is good to be able to use one app really well, but even better to master several and use each for their right purpose like the tools in a big mapping toolbox.

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