# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > 3D modeling (map elements and height maps) >  Goal: Medieval city block

## Katto

Oh no, not now. It took a long time for me to find a suitable 3D program. After testing a lot of programs I've spent some time with Wings3D, until I've discovered Silo3D.
Finally I've finished my first little project. These are the barrels you can see in the picture with complete UV mapping, rendered in Bryce.
Motivated by that I want to create a medieval like city block, consisting of randomly placed buildings. To keep things simple at first and to learn more I started to create a well-house. Here is a first draft. I will add a suitable entrance and a few windows in the next post.

----------


## Ascension

I always wanted to do this as well but never had the patience to stick with it.  I hope you make some really cool houses so that I can use them   :Smile:   So far it looks good.

----------


## ravells

Glad you went with Silo, I think it's wonderful! Those barrels look great! Are you using a normal map? I didn't realise that Bryce supported normal maps.. Looking great so far Katto!

----------


## Katto

Thanks guys! Silo is indeed a wonderful program, easy to learn and very intuitive to work with. I use Bryce since 6.3 and I think the option to use normal maps was implemented there.

----------


## su_liam

A bump map is a little different and slightly less effective than a normal map. A normal map uses values of red, green and blue to denote slope components along three directions spread 120º apart. a bump map is essentially just a greyscale map showing displacement relative to the basic surface of the model object. These both merely alter the texture of the surface by adding the appearance of variations in light and shadow. A displacement map is similar to the terrain maps in Bryce, it actually alters the geometry of the object by displacing points in the surface through space. Bryce lacks normal mapping and, except for terrain and symmetry objects, displacement. I'm not sure if 7 has added to either of these capabilities.

----------


## ravells

Ah, yes, as Su Liam says, that's a bump map, not quite as good as a normal map. Anyway, if it's any help, here's an .sib file of a house I made.

Best

Ravs

----------


## Katto

Thanks for the explanation su_liam! I didn't thought there is a difference between normal and bump maps, now I know. Displacement is supported with Bryce 7 Pro, but I haven't tried it yet. It was quite buggy in the initial release.
Btw, a little progress with the wellhouse.

----------


## Katto

I think I have the final shape.

----------


## Katto

I finished the UV mapping, but won't do any texturing until I have created a few buildings. There this is my first more "complex" model I will share it. Feel free to misuse and texture it as you like (as long as you will show the results here  :Smile: ).
Oh, it is a *.obj file.

----------


## Katto

Damn, that will be a lot of work. I hope I will finish it.

----------


## ravells

And that's just one building.....best of luck Katto!!

----------


## Gidde

Wow, that is incredibly cool! I've always wanted to try some 3d modeling, but I have enough trouble with 2d lol.

----------


## Katto

Thanks Ravs and Gidde. At the moment I think of 5 different buildings, each with a few variations. Then I will see what I can do with them.
Gidde: The key to 3d modeling is an easy to use, but also powerful tool. Silo is fantastic.
Here is a small variation of the first house.

----------


## ravells

I did a model of a church a while back...it may be handy ? I've zipped the .sib file for you and attached it.

Don't laugh too much at my horrible mesh!

Best

Ravs

----------


## Katto

Thanks for sharing Ravs. I will add it when I have enough buildings, then we'll see how it fits. Hey, the mesh is not that bad, let's call it pre-optimization phase  :Wink:  Sometimes its impossible to remove all tris and n-gons.

----------


## jtougas

looks awesome  :Smile:  makes me want to go back to 3d modeling.  :Smile:

----------


## Katto

Thanks JT! It is much work, but I think the result will be worth it. Here is another preview.

----------


## Gidde

This project is just inspiring. You're making me want to have another go (and probably another failure) at 3d modeling!

----------


## Steel General

Neat, looks like something out of the movie "A Knight's Tale"

----------


## Katto

Thanks Steel, never seen the movie. I think this is the shape I will work with.

----------


## ravells

This is looking fantastic, Katto!!!!

----------


## ravells

Hey Katto, I ordered the new Silo reference guide book: 3D Modelling in Silo: the Official Guide. It arrived today and it's pretty good. 2/3rds of it is on organic modelling and 1/3 on hard surface modelling. I've flipped though it and am pretty impressed. Check it out!

----------


## Katto

Thanks ravells, hope you bought the ebook version. I ordered the book in December, because I thought it was perfect to learn Silo's interface. And it was. The book is really good, easy to follow, BUT I hope you also ordered a magnifier, because the selected edges are often hard to recognise. Don't forget to download the bonus chapters. 
Oh and save OFTEN, best to note the filename next to the paragraph, because you always notice a few pages further, that you have made a mistake  :Wink:

----------


## ravells

I'm old fashion and bought the dead tree....I'll just have to use a magnifying glass! Where do I get the bonus chapters from?

----------


## Katto

As noted in the introduction chapter or here. Just scroll down, you will find links to the WIP's and bonus chapters.

----------


## ravells

Brilliant, thanks Katto. The book only arrived today and it will be awhile before I can read it while working through the examples. 

I just don't know how some people who retire say that they are bored and don't know what to do with themselves. I'd be able to fill my day and more. I just need to be able to retire!!!

----------


## Katto

I tested a lot of textures and that's the style that I like most. Of course, I will try a few variations also, what do you think?

----------


## ravells

I think it looks great, looks really natural. This is a bit of poetry you're doing here, katto!

----------


## jtougas

Incredible. Those textures are right on  :Smile:

----------


## Gidde

Fantastic, Katto!

----------


## Katto

Thanks Gidde, ravells and jtougas for your support so far! I need a break from this project, started to mix shortcuts from PS and Silo, bored to make the same steps in PS etc. I promise that this will be finished, but it's not a kind of poetry. Just hard work  :Smile:

----------


## Gidde

Maybe, but it's work I couldn't dream of doing at the moment, so it is indeed poetry  :Smile:  That looks so awesome. Take your break, but I'm dying to see this finished.

----------


## ravells

Hey Katto, have you got CS4 extended? That allows you to 'paint' directly onto .obj models which is pretty cool. you can look at your texture maps in real time as well.

----------


## Katto

I use the extended version of PS4, but the painting option is not helpful for anorganic meshes (horizontal/vertical alignment). I can't keep my hands off it and textured the last remaining buildings. The last thing to do are the doors and windows. I've tried one building so far, but I am not happy with the result yet. I'll keep trying to achieve what I have in mind.
On the right you can see the building with applied bump maps.

----------


## Gidde

Wow. Just, wow. And I really don't see what the problem is with the door and windows, I love them.

----------


## jtougas

> Thanks Gidde, ravells and jtougas for your support so far! I need a break from this project, started to mix shortcuts from PS and Silo, bored to make the same steps in PS etc. I promise that this will be finished, but it's not a kind of poetry. Just hard work


Your right it's not poetry its MAGIC..Just incredible. I feel like I could walk down that street. I think I can smell bread baking.  :Smile:

----------


## arsheesh

Wow Katto, that is really something!  Keep up the good work man, this is looking fantastic.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

----------


## Aval Penworth

Impressive. 
 :Smile:

----------


## monks

Cool project Katto. Keep it up and enjoy it!  :Wink: 

 If you want some inspiration check out Sven Dannart's website: http://www.svenart.de/

monks

----------


## Katto

Thanks a lot for the link monks. Awesome stuff there.

----------


## Katto

> I feel like I could walk down that street. I think I can smell bread baking.


How did you know JT !?

----------


## ravells

Bloody hell, katto! Stick some proper glass texture in that window and I'll jump into the picture to say hello!

fantastic!!!! I mean really fantastic!

----------


## ravells

Sorry, Katto, couldn't resist. 

If I can't live in a fantasy world, then I'll let my daughter to do.....Hmm must buy her some D&D clothes so the images would go better!

----------


## ravells

> Cool project Katto. Keep it up and enjoy it! 
> 
>  If you want some inspiration check out Sven Dannart's website: http://www.svenart.de/
> 
> monks


monks, that is some of the best 3d work I've ever seen. Thanks for posting

----------


## Katto

Lol, I think she wants a cookie. I know the baker, he's generous. Thanks, Ravs.

----------


## ravells

lol...heh 'Daddy, I want a biscuit' and 'Daddy I need a biscuit' are two of her favourite sentences.

----------


## Katto

I've decided to finish this project and moved the final pictures here. Thank you all for the support to motivate me for 1.5 months !!!

----------


## Katto

I've started to work with City Engine and try to adapt my medieval houses to this program as a rule. It is quite amazing what you can build in a few hours if you know the commands and syntax of course.
This is what I have so far.

----------


## tilt

wow.. missed this thread first time around - great work Katto ... don't know city engine, but still looking forward to seing what you do. Have never gotte around to learn 3D myself, I guess I'll wait till I can upload the skills to my brain  :Wink:

----------


## ravells

This is going to be wonderously cool! Go Katto!!!!

----------


## Katto

Hey tilt, 3D isn't an enigma if you know what are vertices, edges and shapes and what you can do with them. I've had an understanding problem of the "split.index" command this evening, but this is solved. I wish the language would be more like programming. Anyway, here is the next update. I've added four "ornament styles" and the rule file for you ravells, just rename the extension to *.cga.

----------


## tilt

no, I understand how 3D works, even took a class once - but what I got from that was basically that the amount of time I had to use to be good at it were to high  :Wink:  ... that was 3D Studio Max. Also learned that in the pro 3D world people didn't even do all of it them selves, some built models, some textured, some set lighting, some animated. Perhaps I'll get the time to learn more some day  :Smile:

----------


## ravells

Thanks for the cga file, katto, having a play with it now.

----------


## Katto

A minor update: Finished the roof level, next I'll have to split the roof itself and adjust a few things. Finally the ground level needs to be done and windows will be added.

I couldn't resist to export a few buildings and do a quick render with preliminary textures.

----------


## ravells

Katto! That looks stunning! Be sure to post your results on the Procedural boards too!!!

----------


## Ascension

Looks like a small training yard there...pretty cool.

----------


## Katto

Thanks, the rendered picture shows just the backyard of a lot, because I have not designed any rules for streets yet.  :Smile: 
I have a big problem now which I won't solve this evening. Nearly everything is driven by random numbers. Now I want to add exactly one door randomly to the front- and backside. In a programming language it would be no problem, but in a scripting language like CE it is. Perhaps I missed a command, so I'll add the rule file. Perhaps anycone can help?
Oh yes, if it is finished I'll post a pic to the Procedural forums, good idea Ravs!

----------


## ravells

You're way ahead of me on the programming now, Katto. I've had to relearn programming from scratch with CE (the last time I did anything similar was when I was using BASIC aged circa 18, I'm now 46).  I think you might be able to make some sort of ' variable flag' using the 'case' command (which is like an 'If' statement in BASIC), and getting one door randomly placed in a wall was on my list as well. You can specify walls that face the street and walls that do not face the street.  It might be worth asking the question on the procedural forums. Matthias Bueller who is the guru there may be able to help by writing a code snippet for you.

I've been dragged away from CE by R/L (moving house and work) and by the last comp and I've forgotten a lot of what I learnt when playing with CE earlier, so I'll have to get back to it again.

----------


## Katto

After a long night I've learnt that it is not possible to change attribute values. It is also not possible to define local attributes. This makes the language quite unflexible, because it is not possible to get min-max values etc.
I've found a solution, but I am not happy with it at all. The next update will follow soon.

----------


## Katto

My first rule file is finished. Unfortunately there was bad weather in Little Housington.

----------


## anonymousfromyou

Simply amazing

----------


## Katto

Thank you, Sir!

----------


## Telarus

Going to go back and read this from the beginning, this is quite cool.

----------


## ravells

Looking real good katto!

----------


## Katto

My final rule file and WIP post. I've added dormers and an overhang to the first floor, all randomly of course. Hope you enjoyed this thread!

----------


## ravells

That is absolutely beautiful, katto. I never even got to putting dormers in. We have been moving house this week and then we are away on holiday next week, but when things have settled down I'd love to look at your cga code and maybe we can do something together with CE.

----------


## Ascension

They look like clones but, dude, it still kicks much booty so my hat goes off to you.

----------


## ravells

He's done the hard part....putting in random textures to get variable buildings gets easier after one has got this far.

----------


## Katto

Thanks guys. It would be nice working together on a project, send a mail when you are ready and have a nice holiday ravs  :Smile:

----------


## Aval Penworth

I too, am filled with admiration.

----------


## arsheesh

Wonderful stuff Katto, I'm really impressed.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

----------

