# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  Principal Areas of Interest in an especially boring location

## Chashio

This was fun. Hand drawn with an old quill-type lettering pen and india ink on printer paper (8.5 x 11 inches). I may be done with it... at least I've run out of steam for the meantime and I'm horribly busy with tons of other things to do. Been working on a commission for almost three weeks now and it just felt good to take an evening off.  :Smile:

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## Lyandra

Nice one Chashio. Certainly looks like it was fun to draw.  :Razz:

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## Chashio

Here's another fun little map that I couldn't bring myself to put in its own thread but wanted to share for your amusement. It's pencil on note paper (4 x 5 inches-ish).

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## Lingon

Made my day, thanks for putting a smile on my face  :Very Happy:

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## Chashio

You know what, I am going to turn this into my dumping-place-for-random-map-style-experiments thread, because I really don't want to start a new thread for each little scrap of paper with slightly off-kilter mapping scribbles on them. So hang on to your britches, people.



Oops, I forgot. This one's on the back of an old business card. Sort of.

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## Schwarzkreuz

Indeed, i did the same. Better to collect stuff than having to many unfunished WIPs and Tests.

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## Gamerprinter

I find when I participate in monthly challenges, that's when I do most of my experiments. I really don't doodle small maps on my own as experiments (at least not in 10 years). In fact regarding hand-drawn maps, I tend to avoid letter size and smaller pieces of paper because of the lack of space to draw larger areas, and I find the pen lines too thick at that scale. I prefer hand-drawing to nothing smaller than an 18" x 24" piece of paper, and more often 24" x 36" and larger. Of course, because I have access to large format scanners (42" wide by any reasonable length), drawing on large sheets makes more sense for me.

Really, I trust my hand-drawing skills enough, and my cartography/geology/geography knowledge well enough, that I often experiment on a map intended to be a finished piece as a professional commission or for a map I intend to publish myself. I don't doodle, I generally only work on maps that I intend to be finished and used - not put in some doodle pile.

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## priggs

Nice drawings! I especially liked that first one. It has tons of texture.

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## Chashio

A couple of sketchbook maps I drew this morning during breakfast. Both of them are pencil on paper that have been photographed with likely the poorest quality phone camera in use today  :Very Happy:  and fiddled with in photoshop. That's actually a good way to start a map; I've done it more than once before. 

The only thing that didn't originate as pencil is the red mark in the corner of the oriental-esk one, which I happily made up on the spot. It's partially based off of an anchor. I'm definitely going to do a future map based off the oriental-esk style... I like that one quite a bit. The other one is simply play, eventually I'll draw something in a style somewhere between a panorama and a Redwall map. Yep, that'll be fun too.

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## Chashio

Style sketches from the graph book. I don't do much with graph paper these days, so figured I'd put it to experimental use.

pic #1: pen and single-color wash (inktense pencils applied with brush) And, yes, I'm aware of the cruddy labeling.
pic #2: color wash
pic #3: pen and color wash
pic #4: pencil, pen, color wash. Random fragments that eventually ran into each other.

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## Chashio

The end. No more in this thread.

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## Lingon

What!? No more of your awesome experiments? Now I'm sad…

Nah, do what you feel like of course. But I like your sketches a lot  :Smile:

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## Chashio

> What!? No more of your awesome experiments? Now I'm sad…
> 
> Nah, do what you feel like of course. But I like your sketches a lot


Thanks, but they take too much time to photo and edit into a viewable quality and I'm usually putting less effort into the quality of the sketches themselves.

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## Lingon

Yeah, I can understand that. Thanks for taking that time with the pieces you posted  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

What's up with this thread? Will we see some new stuff, maybe?

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## Chashio

Okay, okay... 
I know I've been horribly inactive for a while. Understatement.
To compensate for this terribly despicable habit, without further ado...
Here's a small collection of some of the map stuffs I did in 2016.
These are just the digital ones. Some are based on Challenge ideas.
They are all unfinished. Many are just sketches... unfinished.  :Neutral:

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## J.Edward

Excellent stuff Chashio  :Smile: 
I love the one with Bunnicula  :Very Happy: 
And the greyscale one to his right.
Oh, and the one diagonally up to the left... sort of cream and blue. Yes, that is nice.  :Smile: 

You have got some wonderful skillz  :Wink: 
Wish we got to see more of this splendid stuff more often [hint hint]  :Wink:

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## Voolf

Those are gorgeous. Even if some are unfinished, i love the style without lines, just colour. Splendid, thank you for uploading those.

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## Chashio

Thank you John  :Smile:   and Voolf  :Very Happy: 

Hehe, Bunnicula was fun. And the Isle/Island of Greyscale. Well, probably all of 'em. I will try to be more active in the future.  :Wink:  Drawing/painting maps is fun.

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## ThomasR

These are very promising and in some cases simply awesome sketches !

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## snodsy

Love the title of the tread!  Also love the "year in review" - the bottom left with the skeletal dragons is awesome, do you have a separate thread for this one or a higher RES.  Some of the others ones are also awesome. You are a true artist, wish I had that talent.  Thanks for sharing.

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## Chashio

Thank you thomrey  and snodsy  :Smile: 
The dragon piece  :Very Happy:  from the July random generator challenge. 'Obsidian outcrop in a verdant forest, smoke hanging in the air.' Addicting thing, that generator. I did a whole bunch of sketches from such tidbits, but most were just scene-type illustrations.
None of these have their own threads yet. As I do more with them I will likely post higher res versions in new threads, but I'm not sure when that'll be.

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## ChickPea

Some lovely stuff here. I particularly like the bottom left pic. I think it's the grey skies. Reminds me of home!  :Razz:  With my first quick glance at this image, I thought the green bones were landscaping or maybe ferns or something like that. Then I looked again and realised they were lizard skeleton monsters. Terrifying! And awesome!  :Very Happy: 

Don't wait till this time next year to share your work!! I'd love to see more of your WIPs as you develop them.

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## Chashio

Thanks ChickPea!  :Very Happy:  
I thought you live in Sunny Scotland?  :Razz: 

I know, I have been bad about not posting new stuffs. [Hangs head] 
2016 was not a great year for me as far as progressing beyond the early sketch and concept phase. Although it did somewhat help me to get a better handle on scratching down ideas more quickly. I will try to work on follow-through and finishing in 2017.

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## Chashio

> ... You are a true artist, wish I had that talent.  Thanks for sharing.


Oh, snodsy, I forgot to say... there really isn't any artistic talent involved; it is simply spending a large amount of time mucking about and experimenting with stuff until it starts to look halfway decent.  :Wink:   ... And scaling stuff down so the other half is less apparent.  :Razz:

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## Ilanthar

Wow, great work Chashio! I love your painterly style and sense of perspective. My favorites would be the bottom left, the gray to the right of the vampire bunny and the more pastel mini-map top left to it.

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## Chashio

> Wow, great work Chashio! I love your painterly style and sense of perspective. My favorites would be the bottom left, the gray to the right of the vampire bunny and the more pastel mini-map top left to it.


Thanks Ilanthar! I appreciate the feedback and comments.  :Smile: 
It is fun to hear which bits people like best. Hmm... Might end up having a semi-subconscious part in which ones get finished first. Maybe.

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## Chashio

Here's a fun little exercise...
Good practice for improving clarity and efficiency of initial-idea-onto-paper. With the timer running, you can't allow getting sidetracked and nit-picky in the early stages... which is often a problem for me and leads me into difficulties and feeling frustrated, etc. 


This is about 2x the size of the original sketch on paper [across the top of an 8.5 x 11 printer page] so no asking for larger.  :Wink: 

I spent 5 minutes sketching each view with a mechanical pencil, then scanned them at hi-res into the computer and applied 7 minutes of rough coloring without much zooming [about what you see here].

I then enlarged each view and did a 20 minute redraw to clarify, a bit, the roughness of the thumbnail sketches so that later I would have a chance of recalling the details of my original intentions of tiny sketchy marks and blobs of color notes.  :Wink:  Also an issue for me.
These did not come out cleanly; they're still just a rough layout of ideas and composition for later development. 
With 20 minutes I did find myself getting more sidetracked on unimportant detailing... I'd start trying to refine stuff before I should and have to reset my focus... kinda like meditation [never been good at that either].  :Razz:  

  

I started with the Mtn/Forest Valley view, with a pencil brush that was too light and thin and was paying too much attention to certain details... so at 20 minutes I hadn't accomplished much. I adjusted things for the other two.

Hope you find this helpful or interesting.  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

This is an excellent kind of thing to challenge yourself at speed and actually also at the basics of composition and thumbnailing.
As always, these are very cool, even small and not fully done. And of course, you always brings fun and creative ideas with you. ;P

I need to try this myself at some point.  :Smile:

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## Mouse

These are beautiful!

(not that the statement really needs an exclamation mark, since I've never seen you do a bad one  :Wink:  )

You have to develop them - all of them.... Pleeeeeease?

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## tilt

whoa.. map overload... what a great bunch of maps - lovely that you take time to doodle - I gotta do that more  :Smile:

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## Chashio

> whoa.. map overload... what a great bunch of maps - lovely that you take time to doodle - I gotta do that more


Hehe, I know, right? Any more and I'll be smothering y'all with maps.  :Razz:   I'm glad you like them tilt  :Smile:  [ I spend a very large amount of time doodling. I have piles of doodled maps lying around and more in sketchbooks and more in the studio. ... at some point I'll share them  :Wink:  ]




> These are beautiful!
> 
> (not that the statement really needs an exclamation mark, since I've never seen you do a bad one  )
> 
> You have to develop them - all of them.... Pleeeeeease?


These ones came off pretty well and I like them a lot. [I have a bunch of bad ones as well  :Wink:  ] I had lost these for a while... the files got screwed up a bit and I couldn't open them until today. I will develop them at some point, definitely.




> This is an excellent kind of thing to challenge yourself at speed and actually also at the basics of composition and thumbnailing.
> As always, these are very cool, even small and not fully done. And of course, you always brings fun and creative ideas with you. ;P
> 
> I need to try this myself at some point.


Yes indeed. Sometimes I think... well... most of the time I think I'm probably better at sketching stuff than bringing it to completion.  :Surprised:  I need to practice more on all fronts. Lots of practice. Yes. 

How about now?  :Razz:

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## J.Edward

Hehe, yes, now would be an ideal time... 
If only I could get Steam to update properly, then I could sketch too.  :Wink:

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## Chashio

I had a bit of fun sketching some more timed thumbnail maps this evening [on the back of some scrap paper] and I added some color notes to one of them [not timed, because I totally forgot]. Here ya go...

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## J.Edward

Ooooh, I like those.  :Smile: 
The first and third ones are my faves.
You capture a wonderful bird's eye view and have such splendid waterways, something I need to work on.
You are also a wiz with color too. ;P

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## Josiah VE

Really nice sketches!

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## Chashio

> Ooooh, I like those. 
> The first and third ones are my faves.
> You capture a wonderful bird's eye view and have such splendid waterways, something I need to work on.
> You are also a wiz with color too. ;P


 :Smile:  Thanks J. That is nice to hear, though I feel like I more often I miss on those things.




> Really nice sketches!


Thanks Josiah  :Smile:  Glad you enjoy them.

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## Chashio

I took the first 5min sketch from yesterday and loosely interpreted it into a slightly larger color sketch, which i scanned and then warped/fixed the horizon line some. 
I didn't define as much of the foreground [or anything else] while painting because the wrongness of the horizon was throwing off my visualization. 
I'll likely do more with this piece in PS at some point... got a hi-res scan so I can play with it about 3x larger and turn it into a print if anyone's interested.  :Very Happy: 

pencil and acrylic on watercolor paper, 3 x 4 inches
small bit of photoshop fixing



oh yeah, here's the original sketch it was based on, for reference...

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## ThomasR

*rubs his gollummy hands together* "Printsssss you said ?"

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## Chashio

> *rubs his gollummy hands together* "Printsssss you said ?"


Haha  :Very Happy:  Yes. 
My brother gave me his printer since he had another (free) option at his workplace art department.
I've been figuring it out and running tests for a bit and will soon be able to offer fine art quality prints up to 13" wide... which is not really that large, I know, but a lot of my painting works are between small and tiny so it's a great starting point.  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

That's great news !

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## J.Edward

Nice work Chashio  :Smile: 
I like the oblique land there.
Might have to make a little world based on that bit.  :Razz: 

I need to do prints, but it feels daunting.
Complicated and frustrating too.  :Surprised:

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## Chashio

> That's great news !


Yes indeed. Hopefully ...




> Nice work Chashio 
> I like the oblique land there.
> Might have to make a little world based on that bit. 
> 
> I need to do prints, but it feels daunting.
> Complicated and frustrating too.


Ya already started it, eh? And probably adding the final touches as you were typing that too.  :Razz: 

You should definitely do prints  :Very Happy:   ... and yes... it can be all of those things.  :Confused: 

I'm glad you like my lil bit of world.  :Smile:  and thank you for your comments - they're always appreciated.

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## Chashio

Here's some progress on sketch #5 from this post.

I started adding color [just painting over the original sketch in PS] and then decided to expand the canvas a good bit. It's turning into a very painterly landscape view, and I'll probably end up with two versions - one labeled, one not.

The current WIP and original sketch for reference...  
I did ultimately decide to include the Falls, though it's not very visible/finished atm.

 

Hope you like it  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

Oooooh, I quite like what you are doing with this one.  :Very Happy: 
The color choices are very appealing here.
I'm glad you opened it out... made it a broader view.
That expansion really adds a lot to this one.

I'll look forward to seeing what you do with this Chashio.  :Wink:

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## Mouse

Oh I love the composition, and especially the colours.  That sea!  I love it!  I love it!  :Very Happy:

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## Chashio

> Oooooh, I quite like what you are doing with this one. 
> The color choices are very appealing here.
> I'm glad you opened it out... made it a broader view.
> That expansion really adds a lot to this one.
> 
> I'll look forward to seeing what you do with this Chashio.





> Oh I love the composition, and especially the colours.  That sea!  I love it!  I love it!


Thank you J. and Mouse!  :Very Happy:  I'm having a ton of fun with this one [well, all of these sketches, actually] and trying some new things so I'm really glad for your comments and feedback.  :Smile:  Very much appreciated.

On the composition: I kept adding another bit and another bit, etc to the right edge of the canvas and slapping the water color around until i got that rough composition of the rocks/sea, then added some more on the bottom to make the final dimensions 12x18 [which is about as large as I can print on my new printer  :Wink: ]. 

For the colors, I am taking inspiration from a bunch of landscape paintings, illustrations and aerial photos.

I'm quite pleased with how this one is coming out.  :Smile:

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## Chashio

Something I started last night. Just roughing in some stuff atm. Painted in ArtRage.

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## Meshon

So I decided to try one of these 5/7 landscape things... and discovered I have no idea how to make landscapes! Do you work from reference photos? Expert imagination? I am now visiting the Rocky Mountains for three days with the intention of sketching some mountains from life.

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## Chashio

> So I decided to try one of these 5/7 landscape things... and discovered I have no idea how to make landscapes! Do you work from reference photos? Expert imagination? I am now visiting the Rocky Mountains for three days with the intention of sketching some mountains from life.


Haha  :Very Happy:  I'm glad you're getting in on that - it's lots of fun, etc. 

It helps if you start very loose and don't try to refine anything... they're just quick visual notes... and then just keep doing them... whip one out, when the timer goes off, start right into the next. Maybe try approaching it in a different way for each or every two/three. Do a page like that, and then look back and see which ones felt easiest/most natural, and what bits you like best. Try another page in the next day or two.

I use both, reference and imagination, but the expert part of the imagination requires looking at a ton of reference photos and other things to build up a memory bank to help with getting it to look right, and loads of practice sketching.  :Wink: 

I love google image search and pinterest for browsing a ton of landscape and aerial photography [pinterest is great for being able to save reference you like in an easy-to-find spot for later]
 [Edit: and Paintings! Really useful to look at how artists paint/render landscapes with light and shadow and shapes] 
And also... look up Berann; he is one of my favorite inspirations for panoramic maps.

Other than pictures, I also sometimes pan through Google Earth, either the online version (I like my smartphone screen because the app is really simple to pan/zoom/rotate) or with the downloadable desktop version. Google Earth/Maps also has a bunch of photos at various locations that people have put on the map, so you can see how it looks in person as well as the digital 3d render, which is often not as great for detail and the landforms can be quite rough/ill-defined. Photos can help more with lighting and color as well, etc.
Bing also has a sort of similar thing to Earth, with its Aerial View, and I've used that sometimes as well.

Three days in the Rockies :O that sounds awesome! Take pictures too  :Wink:  they make excellent reference for later use, especially when paired with memories.

Hopefully that helps and if you have any other questions about it or feel like you're getting stuck/frustrated with some point, I'll be happy to answer more and/or help as I can.  :Smile:  
Have fun in the mountains!  :Very Happy:

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## J.Edward

Love that oblique view Chashio  :Very Happy: 
Looks great so far. 
That dramatic sky gives it a real feel of panorama  :Wink:

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## Chashio

Thank you J!
Yeah... was having some fun with the sky  :Very Happy: 
Glad you like it  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

This thread is a blast, Chashio !

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## Chashio

> This thread is a blast, Chashio !


Thank you so much Thomas! I'm glad you are enjoying it  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

Not only enjoying, it's a goldmine of informations and inspirations !

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## Chashio

> Not only enjoying, it's a goldmine of informations and inspirations !


[very big grin]  :Very Happy:

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## Mouse

I've been umming and ahing about Artrage for a long time now - not enough space in my head to store so much learning all at once with all the other apps I've been trying at the same time, but if you keep on drawing stuff like this, then I'm just going to have to dive in myself.

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## Chashio

> I've been umming and ahing about Artrage for a long time now - not enough space in my head to store so much learning all at once with all the other apps I've been trying at the same time, but if you keep on drawing stuff like this, then I'm just going to have to dive in myself.


I hope you pick it up.  :Smile:  ArtRage is actually really easy to learn, and a lot of fun to use... they did a pretty good job of making the interface with artists in mind.

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## kacey

I think you'll find Mouse that Artrage is more freindly then some other programmes, it's definitely easier then Gimp or PhotoShop and gives nice results. Their natural media brushes are top notch and very realistic, the only programme that I've found that can beat it in that department is Corel Painter which is wildly expensive and difficult to learn but only because there brush system is so robust. I haven't tried making maps with either of them because they don't play as well with my surface tablet as PhotoShop, but the water colour simulation in both programs is very promising.

I wonder if Artrage has a free trial...

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## Mouse

Hey Chashio, Kacey  :Smile: 

I'm an impulse buyer.  Its got me into all kinds of trouble when I was younger, but the way I control it now is to deny myself the trial version until I already have the money to buy the app without doing myself any financial harm - just in case I fall in love with it and can't resist the temptation.  The only recent exception to that rule has been Sketchup - but you can carry on using the free version if you can't afford the pro  :Wink: 

Reality, though, has left me penniless for a while yet, so it may be a few months before you see me experimenting  :Wink:

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## Chashio

I had to go look up on their website about demos... they have an awesome one  :Exclamation:  https://www.artrage.com/demos/  I guess you can't save, export, or record scripts [I suppose you could screen capture if you wanted to keep a record or play with it as a layer in another program; just maybe don't share such around publicly unless you buy the full license version  :Wink:  ] but everything else is fully functional and there is no time limit.  :Surprised: 

I tried Corel Painter back when the wet oils and real watercolors were new... and I think I was still using my old laptop. They froze and crashed the program because they were so heavy/powerful but, wow, they were gorgeous. 
I think ArtRage is acceptably comparable [or as kacey said it above] for quality results, and surpasses it for processing lightness and ease of use/learning curve, and definitely on cost.  :Smile:

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## AaronSchmidt

I am just starting to poke my nose around the forums after I found this site last week. I really like your work. It has a loose playful spirit that I resonate with. I will look forward to seeing more of your stuff!

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## Chashio

> I am just starting to poke my nose around the forums after I found this site last week. I really like your work. It has a loose playful spirit that I resonate with. I will look forward to seeing more of your stuff!


Thank you Aaron, and welcome to the guild!  :Very Happy:  I'm trying to do more with the loose playfulness lately/moving forward so I'm really happy to hear that people enjoy it.  :Smile:

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## Mouse

Thanks Chashio  :Smile: 

I have the demo, but like you say I can't show anything - not even here - till I get around to buying the thing!  LOL!

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## Chashio

Just curious which version people like better? Dark or light water? [the colors are just basic for clarity] And what type of setting does each put you in mind of? Thanks  :Smile: 

 

Couldn't really focus on anything else last night so, surprise  :Razz:  I started something new.  :Very Happy: 




> Thanks Chashio 
> 
> I have the demo, but like you say I can't show anything - not even here - till I get around to buying the thing!  LOL!


Glad you're playing with it  :Smile:

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## Mouse

Darker  :Smile: 

The paler one looks a bit washed out to me (but you know me well enough by now to bear in mind that I'm a full rainbow sort of person  :Razz: )

And I'm still playing - between all these cities I'm working on!  LOL!

EDIT: as for setting I'd say the paler one is a bit too modern school atlas for my taste, while the darker one seems to promise more secrets - ideal for a fantasy map  :Wink:

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## Chashio

> Darker 
> 
> The paler one looks a bit washed out to me (but you know me well enough by now to bear in mind that I'm a full rainbow sort of person )
> 
> And I'm still playing - between all these cities I'm working on!  LOL!
> 
> EDIT: as for setting I'd say the paler one is a bit too modern school atlas for my taste, while the darker one seems to promise more secrets - ideal for a fantasy map


Thanks Mouse  :Smile: 

Yeah, I agree the light one is a bit washy as is. As happens, I just picked up a picture of a peacock and was thinking.. hmm, that'd be an interesting, colorful scheme to try. It has greens and blues and lighter greys for the larger parts of it so it could be tweaked for the darker one without a lot of trouble.

... 'darker one seems to promise more secrets' makes me want to challenge myself to make the light one full of mysteries. But maybe one thing at a time?  :Question:   .... Nah. [this is why I have so much trouble deciding  :Razz:  ]
I could go either route and have fun messing about.  :Confused:

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## Mouse

You could use the light one to do an ISO mountainous icebound continent - adding the missing contrast by having little bits of really dark rock showing through?

EDIT: I bet you could make full use of your colour sense to make that ice look really cool... oops!  No pun intended!  Really!

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## Chashio

Hahaha  :Very Happy:  

Good ideas, thank you  :Smile:

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## Chashio

Did a bit more with the dark-water version.
The terrain light and shade are just roughed in on normal-blend layers using a hard round brush with pressure size+opacity and a bit of smudging and erasing. Did the highlights first, then a darker blue-green shadow, then the violet on top of that. That's as far as I've gotten.

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## J.Edward

Oh, that looks cool  :Smile: 
I like the terrain your creating there.
The oblique view is quite nice.
I look forward to seeing this one progress.  :Smile:

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## Voolf

This looks great Kaitlin. I like the perspective and shape of the land. Looking forward to see it developed more.

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## kacey

oooh! Really cool, this looks like the view from a spaceship at this angle, nice job so far.

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## Chashio

> Oh, that looks cool 
> I like the terrain your creating there.
> The oblique view is quite nice.
> I look forward to seeing this one progress.


Thanks J!
The terrain took a bit of fiddling and a lot of erasing to get something half decent. Hadn't made up my mind on what scale to make it, and I'm still not entirely sure what it's representing  :Question:  but I like the feel of it.  :Smile: 




> This looks great Kaitlin. I like the perspective and shape of the land. Looking forward to see it developed more.


Thank you  :Smile:  The landmass was carved with a hard round brush with size pressure turned on, mostly just on a single layer and switching between foreground and background colors. Will probably still tweak a few bits, but I'm glad you like it.




> oooh! Really cool, this looks like the view from a spaceship at this angle, nice job so far.


Hehe, it does, yes. Or from the back of a dragon.  :Very Happy:  
I love working with this type of perspective; just feels really natural to me... but I have a ton of sketches like it that have not turned out so well. It can be challenging to get the proper angle on everything... mostly I just try it and hit or miss... and missing tends to snag up further progress.  :Confused:  But I keep practicing.


Don't know when I will do more with this... going out of town for a bit... but I might bring some WIPs with me.  :Smile:  One does not visit a cartographer without bringing mapping supplies. ;P

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## Chashio

I made my first ever video this weekend!  :Surprised:  It's a condensed version of me rough-sketching a random little map, if you're interested in seeing a bit of my sketching process... this link should get you there...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BaSRRrMFfbR/

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## ChickPea

Oooh, nice drawing! Always great to see how others work.  :Very Happy:

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