# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Building/Structure Mapping >  Nubian Kings

## snodsy

starting a new map using Illustrator, Sketchup, and Photoshop - Going to use this thread to also remember myself of what I did  :Smile: 

Been doing research for a couple days two area of Nubian Kings during the time of Rome along the Nile River between the 4th & 6th cataracts. 
   Meroe - has a lot of great pyramids, different than Giza, smaller and narrower.
   Naqa - Temple of Amun at Jebel Barkal (at base of mountain)



Found a plan of the excavation of Naqa with a scale, showing the buildings.  Also found a few illustrations and some great photos of the two temple that are in relatively good shape there. Plus plenty of photos of the Pyramids.


Took the scaled jpeg into Adobe Illustrator and redrew the lines to scale.  Turned all the lines into shapes (outlines) and then used the pathfinder tool to combine all the linework.  



Then saved as a DWF file and placed into Sketchup.  With just a little work did a first PUSH/PULL upward of all the wall to one height for now.



Will fill in the city and add the pyramids - planning on using sketch up for the perspective and layout - 

not sure if I'll do all the linework in Sketchup or just rough it in and redraw in Photoshop would love to hear your THOUGHTS on this matter???? 

Hope if come out ok, first attempt with this methods.

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## ThomasR

The first result is already outstanding ! I knew I had to dive more into sketch up ! I'll follow this thread with interest. Go snodsy !

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## Runninghead

Hey Snodsy- just stumbled on this and had to say "Great work!".
I love SketchUp (though I've only got the free version).
Looking forward to seeing the next stage.

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## Abu Lafia

Another very interesting project snodsy! Looking really good so far, and i can imagine it both ways (entirely made in sketchup, or redrawing it by hand in photoshop). I only think it should be consistent, so if you plan to do depict the terrain around the buildings for example, you might need to find a way to do it in sketchup too or some other way computer generated... On the other hand i'd love to see another hand drawn map of yours...  :Smile:  Looking forward to see this unfold!

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## snodsy

Here is a test for the larger city plan.  The full will have two temples (Including this one), 5-6 pyramids, mountain in background with city wall and city.  All linework in sketch up except artwork and sculptures and mountains.  Font - Lithos.  Border will be two columns with carved embossed artwork .  Comments Welcome.

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## Mouse

Wow!  You're going all technical on me, and the map is magnificent already  :Smile: 

Are you going to map the entire city this way, or just the key points you have already identified?  It sounds more like a project involving several maps, rather than all this effort for just one map.

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## Voolf

This looks awesome snodsy. I double the Mouse question. Are you gonna map all of it this way?

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## Danielle Antenucci

Nice!  I have nothing to add other than I love ancient Egypt works. 🙋🏾

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## snodsy

Yeah ancient Egyptian history is alway intriguing, was interesting to find out there are more pyramids in current day Sudan than Egypt, although smaller. I'd also love to do the area of PUNT someday as well, which is still under debate as to it's actual location.

Yeah the plan is to do one map with this Temple as a main element but will have the city surrounding it. This may take the rest of the year to finish, but looking forward to learning Sketchup more and combining with Photoshop.  Here goes!

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## Mouse

Looking forward to the progress  :Smile: 

Is Sketchup really difficult to learn?

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## ThomasR

What can I say besides that I love it ?

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## Falconius

Oh I love it, this is great.

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## snodsy

> Looking forward to the progress 
> 
> Is Sketchup really difficult to learn?



Hey Mouse,

Sketchup is pretty easy to get started, but it qwerky to some degree, the complex shapes can get tricky, but there are plenty of tutorials, You Tube Videos and a good community.  There are also a lot of plugins that help make some of the more complex shape creation easier.

You can get the free version and play with it immediately and make house, walls.  It will take some time to get comfortable with it, I've been using it off and on for about 3-4 years now and feel pretty comfortable at it, but still get bogged down at times with the geometry.  Knowing what angle you want to show helps, in that you don't' have to put all the detail in that you would need if you were going to build from it or show a fly through.

It is another good tool to have in the toolbox though and can really help to get the perspective view of thing, even with simple box, you tilt and spin to get the perspective you might want.

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## Mouse

Thanks snodsy  :Very Happy: 

When I become rich and famous I'm going to buy all these pieces of software I've been hankering after (and probably a bigger machine to put them all on)

I half suspect, however, that in many cases with your maps its not so much the software you are using, but the skill you apply to using it - and that is something that I can hardly expect to emulate  :Wink:

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## Greg

Oh, how on earth did I miss this thread? Everybody loves snodsy historical maps!  :Very Happy: 

What you've got planned looks good so far and thanks for also sharing some of your processes. I've only ever used Photoshop (and a little GIMP) for my maps so far, so it's always interesting to see how the other programmes can work compliment each other.  :Smile: 

Anywho, I like what I see so far and can't wait to see more!  :Smile:

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## Bogie

The building looks great!

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## Ilanthar

So, do you have fun with Sketchup, Snodsy  :Razz:  :Wink: ?
Another very interesting project and it looks really great already. If I understand well, you kept the lines of SK and added the details like the wall paintings with another software?
I tried to draw everything using SK as a base and just keep shadows, but found it quite difficult (and just get a messy thing).

Anyhow, I'm definitely keeping an eye on this thread!

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## snodsy

> So, do you have fun with Sketchup, Snodsy ?
> Another very interesting project and it looks really great already. If I understand well, you kept the lines of SK and added the details like the wall paintings with another software?
> I tried to draw everything using SK as a base and just keep shadows, but found it quite difficult (and just get a messy thing).
> 
> Anyhow, I'm definitely keeping an eye on this thread!



Fun is such a relative word  :Smile:   fun at times, frustrating at times, but trying it in sketchup will benefit me learning sketchup. I thought you had done Seyasade map in Sketchup? That turned out really well. The Fairy Lutece was in sketchup too?? These were inspirations for me to try this technique, along with a few others who have done maps this way.

Here is a wider view of the perimeters of the city, back wall is just a placeholder for the mountain. Lots of buildings still to add, I plan on doing the trees, fields and mountain in Photoshop.

To your point Ilanthar, hopefully it doesn't turn out a big mess, we'll see.  I save the SketchUp file as EXPORT 2D graphic as a JPEG and click the OPTION button to set the PPI at 300, that's what the attached is saved as (although) at this point not EDGES ONLY.  I will save two files - EDGES ONLY and SHADOWS, that's how I did the Test one.  I would hate to do all this work and it turn out poorly, so I may test this a little more before moving full steam ahead.

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## Straf

This is looking promising  :Smile:  The test you made a few posts in has a real 1970s 'look and learn' book feel to it but not at all dated - illustrations that would be perfectly at home in books today. It makes me all nostalgic for those evenings where I'd read history books before going to sleep. I hated history in school but in more recent years I've become quite interested in it and wondered where it came from. I now realise that it's a rekindling of the enjoyment I got as a kid, before school spoilt it all for me. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished article. 

I tried Sketchup some time ago (I won't make any 'but I prefer Smustard' jokes, honest!) when I was renovating a house and wanted to plan the kitchen refit. I didn't quite get the hang of it though, I just managed to get a few cuboids floating in space with some random and weird shapes sticking out from them. Is it still free?


BTW looking at your location, I had a few cracking days in Covington in 2008. I was there when Obama won his first election and the bar I was in (Cock and Bull I think) erupted into rapture when he won the Ohio vote. I then wandered off and found a place with a live bluegrass band. Everyone seemed super friendly, event the vagrants called me sir!  :Very Happy:  I did do some personal research (scientific you know) on the flavour of bourbons and I decided that Knob Creek was my favourite. It's on sale at my local supermarket now but it's a little out of my price range. It's the equivalent of $40 for a 70cl bottle, whereas I got a quart there for around $25 ish. Anyway I had a great time in your part of the world  :Smile:

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## snodsy

> This is looking promising  The test you made a few posts in has a real 1970s 'look and learn' book feel to it but not at all dated - illustrations that would be perfectly at home in books today. It makes me all nostalgic for those evenings where I'd read history books before going to sleep. I hated history in school but in more recent years I've become quite interested in it and wondered where it came from. I now realise that it's a rekindling of the enjoyment I got as a kid, before school spoilt it all for me. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished article. 
> 
> I tried Sketchup some time ago (I won't make any 'but I prefer Smustard' jokes, honest!) when I was renovating a house and wanted to plan the kitchen refit. I didn't quite get the hang of it though, I just managed to get a few cuboids floating in space with some random and weird shapes sticking out from them. Is it still free?
> 
> 
> BTW looking at your location, I had a few cracking days in Covington in 2008. I was there when Obama won his first election and the bar I was in (Cock and Bull I think) erupted into rapture when he won the Ohio vote. I then wandered off and found a place with a live bluegrass band. Everyone seemed super friendly, event the vagrants called me sir!  I did do some personal research (scientific you know) on the flavour of bourbons and I decided that Knob Creek was my favourite. It's on sale at my local supermarket now but it's a little out of my price range. It's the equivalent of $40 for a 70cl bottle, whereas I got a quart there for around $25 ish. Anyway I had a great time in your part of the world



Hey Straf;
Glad you had a good time in Bourbon Country! I do enjoy Knob Creek, but I'd say Buffalo Trace is a really good one as well. There as well as Woodford Reserve, if you make it back try to do the Bourbon Trail, there are many distillers here due to the limestone and underwater springs.

Sketchup is quirky one of the may things is after making a cube, you have to GROUP it so it doesn't stick to other elements that you don't want it do, this project has already help me hone my skills in it some.

I notice that as I get older I like history more, maybe because I'm now part of it  :Smile: . There are so many cool places in the world and great stories of ancient history that it is a treasure trove of info for me to develop map based on.  Also I admire all the folks here who are so much better at developing storylines for fantasy worlds than I, but have welcomed me to their world and allow me to participate while doing these more Historic Maps.  Sorry for the long post, thanks for the comments.

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## snodsy

Just testing some line weights comments welcome

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## Abu Lafia

I love these nested(?) compounds of houses beside the temple area. Great job!  :Smile:  The lineweight seems fine to me. Only three of the pyramids detached themselves from their shadows and started to float away  :Very Happy:  Really looking forward to the next uploads...

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## Straf

This is looking really great snodsy. I wouldn't have noticed the hovering pyramids if Abu hadn't mentioned them as I was ogling the rest of the details, but yes I do see them as trying to escape.

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## snodsy

Thanks for that catch Abu on the shadow, I have those elevated so when I add the mountain, they sit on a slightly raised plateau up the mountain, I'll have to remember to erase it when I bring it into Photoshop to start drawing, which looks like another week off at this rate. It's been fun doing the nested compounds, although alot may go unnoticed, but oh well, helps learning sketchup better by doing the details. Thanks for the comments guys.

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## DanielHasenbos

Wow great work snodsy! Can't wait to see what this looks like when it's finished. 

-Dan

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## Voolf

Great work with sketchup snodsy !

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## Ilanthar

> *By Snodsy*
> Fun is such a relative word fun at times, frustrating at times, but trying it in sketchup will benefit me learning sketchup. I thought you had done Seyasade map in Sketchup? That turned out really well. The Fairy Lutece was in sketchup too?? These were inspirations for me to try this technique, along with a few others who have done maps this way.
> 
> Here is a wider view of the perimeters of the city, back wall is just a placeholder for the mountain. Lots of buildings still to add, I plan on doing the trees, fields and mountain in Photoshop.
> 
> To your point Ilanthar, hopefully it doesn't turn out a big mess, we'll see. I save the SketchUp file as EXPORT 2D graphic as a JPEG and click the OPTION button to set the PPI at 300, that's what the attached is saved as (although) at this point not EDGES ONLY. I will save two files - EDGES ONLY and SHADOWS, that's how I did the Test one. I would hate to do all this work and it turn out poorly, so I may test this a little more before moving full steam ahead.


I agree, it's often fun and frustrating to use Sketchup. I did Seyazade in SK, but not Fairy lutece. This last one was drawn with my good old PSP7 (I didn't have a tablet at that time).
Thanks a lot for the explanations. I suspected you used different exported views, but it will definitely help me when I'll do some other tests for Argona.

Now, this is just looking excellent and give me the itch to return to SK again. I'm always hesiting about the columns/domes/round chimneys, I mean I never know if its better to make the lines invisible or not. On your present work, I think the columns would be better with a a line on each side. But I suppose you could do this in the end, when you've chosen your view(s).

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## snodsy

I actually have the column lines drawn but they don't show when I choose edges, I can click profiles but it makes every line heavier, same with the dome cap, I guess I'll have to put them in on photoshop, thanks for the comments

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## Straf

This may, or may not, be of interest to you snodsy. A 5,000 year old city discovered in upper Egypt:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38084391

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## BlindBlake

Really interresting subject and great rendering! 
Are you planning on creating the city at a given date in history ? Because some buildings may have not been present at the same time. Well I'm sure you already did plenty of research on the subject, but this is something important according to me so I had to ask you  :Very Happy: 
Anyway I love the idea and I can't wait to see the final city

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## Warlin

I always keep an eye at your work, Snodsy, even if I don't post every time. This work with SK is really nice and I find interesting the variety of your building architecture. You'll soon have a great portfolio of historical map : Hannibal march, el dorado city, Egyptian tombs... keep up this wonderfull work. Cheers.

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## snodsy

Thanks for the comments. Straf, that was a good site, and it also led to some interesting other sites, notably the two cities discovered underwater on the Nile Delta (Thonis-Heracleion and Canopus) which would make a great map depicting them during their reign.

The setting isn't a specific time period, nor is this an exact depiction of a location, but the time frame is during the Nubian Kings reign - during the Roman Empire (200 BC-200AD), this is the main Temple of Apedemak pictured.  I've also taken some liberties and used the Pyramids from nearby Meroe, which was also a Nubian (Ku****ic Kingdom) 

Here's an update on the Sketchup map.  Unfornately curves don't show up unless you check profiles, which then male all the lines too thick, I'll had to redraw these in photoshop

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## Straf

I thought you might like that. I saw it and thought of you and your map straight away.

Maybe I need to change some settings but it seems that the middle four letters of the particular kingdom have been asterisked out for me haha!

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## RedKettle

> ...Unfornately curves don't show up unless you check profiles, which then male all the lines too thick, I'll had to redraw these in photoshop...


If there is a number next to the "profiles" box that you check, try changing that number to "1". I think the default is "2", which is twice as thick as the "edges" default (which should be "1"). Also, another way to play with lineweights in Sketchup is to export the image at a different resolution (higher resolutions make all lines relatively thinner, lower resolutions make all lines relatively thicker).

Very cool model so far!

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## snodsy

> If there is a number next to the "profiles" box that you check, try changing that number to "1". I think the default is "2", which is twice as thick as the "edges" default (which should be "1"). Also, another way to play with lineweights in Sketchup is to export the image at a different resolution (higher resolutions make all lines relatively thinner, lower resolutions make all lines relatively thicker).
> 
> Very cool model so far!


Thanks red kettle that worked, profile at 1, 300 resolution at 5000 pixel wide, will update later image

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## snodsy

Color added, comments welcome. Plenty still to color and then details of stone carving on main temples and others. Mountain still to do.

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## Mouse

The drawing is looking great, snodsy  :Smile: 

I'm not very keen on that yellow, but I'm not sure why.  Normally I would be able to say 'its too green', or 'its too saturated', or something like that, but I just can't seem to put my finger on it right now.  It could be that the yellow is fine, but it just happens to clash very slightly with the much less saturated colours of that speckled background you've got going there.  Yellow and 'sort of brown-grey' is always a tricky one.  Its much easier to match yellows with pale silver-blue-green greys (like daffodil leaves), or extremely weak and very pale indigo-greys.

Mind you, I might be the only person on Earth that doesn't like it - so it is only an opinion and _not_ a criticism  :Wink:

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## Straf

This is looking really neat snodsy  :Smile:  It's got that fun history book look to it. What is the entrance's orientation?

Mouse, it could be that there was a medicine that colour that tasted awful? I can remember it when I was a kid and that colour reminds me of it. An almost fluorescent yellow.

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## Mouse

Don't know that one, Straf.  It was the fluorescent orange one that I remember - kiddies Penicillin.

I might not like the yellow right now, snodsy, but I have faith in you to make it work - even without ever changing the yellow  :Wink:

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## arsheesh

Ooh, I like it!  This really makes me want to learn sketchup.  Looking forward to seeing the completed piece.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## J.Edward

Hey Snodsy.. An FB member saw a discrepancy with the screen cap that I posted to FB earlier today - looks like some of the pyramids are a bit off the ground.

This was their image posted on FB Guild page.
oh, and this is looking good sir  :Very Happy:

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## snodsy

Thanks JE, I do know about this, I will be moving the shadows for these, once I put the plateau in, this will be sitting higher up, but I appreciate the FB guild post and your repost.
Also thanks for posting on Facebook.

Straf - not sure if this answers your question, but the Pyramids are facing East, which I read doing research for the project, let me know if you know of an issue with this, but I probably wont change it at this point if the Temples were to be pointed in another direction.

Mouse, I see what you mean and I can easily change that color, I typically make all my colors an layer effect so that I can tweak them as I build the file.

Asheesh, would love to see what you could do in sketchup, I'm sure it would be outstanding, lots on tutorials on the web for it.

Thanks for the comments guys  :Smile:

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## Straf

OK if the gate is due east then the shadow lengths and direction suggest that it's around 5 hours after sunrise on Beltane when you took that picture.

Do I win a cigar?  :Wink:

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## snodsy

Wow you thought about those shadows more than I did, how about a free critique of your next post  :Smile: .

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## M3woods

> Hey Snodsy.. An FB member saw a discrepancy with the screen cap that I posted to FB earlier today - looks like some of the pyramids are a bit off the ground.
> 
> This was their image posted on FB Guild page.
> oh, and this is looking good sir


Looking at that image, only one thing came to mind: Madeline Kahn as Queen Nympho, "no, no, no, no, yes, no, no, yes..." No derailment meant, simply commenting on the history of the world.*


*part 1

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

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## Ilanthar

Wow, definitely an impressive map! The colors adds a lot to it. You're using a "perspective view", right? I'm often finding hard to chose a view and angle that allow to have a good view of a big area in SK. You managed that with brio!

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## snodsy

Thanks for the comments, heres an update, the building are all colored in except the roof tops will get a slightly lighter shade. Working on the mountain ---- not sure if it's properly scaled?  There's gold in them hills. What about those trees?  Will put in more details on the temple walls and crops in the fields, the copy is only a start, will rewrite.  Comments welcome.

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## Mouse

You see?  I knew you would tame that yellow just right  :Smile: 

Excellent work, Snodsy  :Very Happy: 

I can't say 'breathtaking' yet because you haven't finished it (even though it already _is_ breathtaking!)

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## DanielHasenbos

It's looking great snodsy. I don't know if I have already commented on this thread, but I have been keeping an eye on this one and it just keeps getting better. The houses seem a bit uniform at the moment, but that might change once you add the lighter color to the roofs. The trees look just fine when zoomed out, but start to look a little odd once you zoom in closer.

Great work, keep it up!

-Dan

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## Voolf

Looking amazing snodsy. Beside the sketchup town, i very much like what you are drawing behind it. The small construction site on the hills is awesome

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## ChickPea

This is looking fantastic! I love what you're doing here, Snodsy  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

Amazing thread ! I'll have to come back and read more carefully but the result is astounding !

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## snodsy

Thanks for the positive comments, I take it the scale of the mountains is working? Trying to come up with a border treatment but haven't been happy with anything yet, I'd like to add the embossed etching that is seen on the Temple of Apedemak, but it keeps taking a way from the map. We'll see.

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## Bogie

Great map!!  Love the detail and the coloring.

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## snodsy

Just an update, shadows and highlights on the mountains, just started adding the fields and a first attempt at the corner icons.  I'll be putting some engravings on the The Amun Temple and Water Tower as well as a couple others. getting there, this is the most I've spent on a project so far. About 50 hours (sketch up takes a lot more time than freehand. The side bar hieroglyphs are a font - "Barmee_Hieroglify" I know a couple labels aren't legible, will work on those at the end.  Critiques welcome.

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## Josiah VE

WOW! I honestly haven't seen this until now. This is very impressive! The perspective is fantastic, and I love the detailed buildings. How did you blend sketch up with photoshop? It looks beautiful!

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## ThomasR

Fantastic and the sightly askew view makes if even more real life !

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## Warlin

Great result, Snodsy. You're the (aegyptian) god of this historical map picture !

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## snodsy

> Wow, definitely an impressive map! The colors adds a lot to it. You're using a "perspective view", right? I'm often finding hard to chose a view and angle that allow to have a good view of a big area in SK. You managed that with brio!


Yes a perspective view, it took a while to get what I wanted, just zooming in and out and rotating till I got something, then saves as jpeg a Edge/Profile jpeg and a Shadow only jpeg as two seperate layers in photoshop.




> It's looking great snodsy. I don't know if I have already commented on this thread, but I have been keeping an eye on this one and it just keeps getting better. The houses seem a bit uniform at the moment, but that might change once you add the lighter color to the roofs. The trees look just fine when zoomed out, but start to look a little odd once you zoom in closer.
> Great work, keep it up!
> 
> -Dan


I'll work on making these non-uniform maybe a slightly different tone?  not sure what to do, don't want to get too wild, maybe a two/three tones?? 





> Looking amazing snodsy. Beside the sketchup town, i very much like what you are drawing behind it. The small construction site on the hills is awesome


Thanks Voolf, I always like to add elements that make it look a little more lived in, like the construction site and the ramp to the under construction Pyramid.  Adding something as the Nile River might be good too.





> WOW! I honestly haven't seen this until now. This is very impressive! The perspective is fantastic, and I love the detailed buildings. How did you blend sketch up with photoshop? It looks beautiful!


I did an early test to make sure the line weight of the Sketchup import would match up with the Photoshop line work, I think that is what makes it hold together.

Here an update, hopefully can finish up tomorrow or early next week.  Not sure about the string bobs on the title piece.  I've thought about making the two square on the border in color, but not sure - thoughts?

Thanks for the comments guys

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## Straf

Wow! You've put a phaorohld load of work into this. It looks fantastic  :Very Happy:

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## Mouse

Its a magnificent map, and the string bobs look fine to me  :Smile: 

Something else caught my eye, though.

I wasn't really looking at the labels until the Amesemi Chapel label caught my eye and jarred a little.  Do you think the labels that are on the built up area would look better if they flowed with the perspective?  By that I mean either lying them on the ground if they overlay ground, or tilting them to match the horizontal lines at the top and bottom of the wall if they overlay a piece of wall - as with the Amesemi Chapel label.

You have probably already tried it, and know better than I do  :Wink:

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