# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Town/City Mapping >  Galastan - hand-drawn city on a mountain

## Blaidd Drwg

Here's my latest project. My previous ones have all stalled somewhere and it took some time to build up the courage to try another one.
It's similar to my Val Nevan map style-wise (because I'm just not quite done with doing parallel projections just yet) but a lot less realistic and more fantasy-like.

This is what I've got after 8 hours or so. Most of that time was spent sketching and erasing again, but I'm having fun  :Smile:

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## Galendae

OK, So that has the potential to be the greatest city/castle i have ever seen here!

Keep going!  I am drooling!

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## torstan

Very pretty! That's coming along nicely.

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## arsheesh

Wow!  I am _really_ looking forward to seeing this map progress.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Blaidd Drwg

Latest update.

Progress is very slow. I spend most of the time thinking about what I'm going to do next. Then I draw a bit, erase it, draw again, then maybe ink a little.
I see some problems coming up. As I go along, I'm trying to bring more detail into it and to draw even finer lines. But at first I really only wanted to use the very fine lines for things in the background. Since this isn't in proper perspective, things don't get smaller when they're farther away, so this harms a sense of depth. I hope I can correct this once I've scanned it. Maybe lighten some lines, and use less saturated colours.

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## Schwarzkreuz

To define the angle of the buildings alone would kill my nerves. Gosh, how you doing this? Or is it 'just' intuitive?

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## Chashio

That's_ Impressive!_

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## kenny3

:O

I wanna see the final piece so bad!!!!
it looks amazing!!!
Hurry up  :Razz:

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## veracusse

Amazing.  Great detail in this map.  I can't wait to see the final project.

Are you drawing this in an oblique perspective?  I ask since I see the ruler and protractor out.   :Wink:

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## Lukc

It looks very nice! Going very well ... I admire how you're doing it! Personally, I don't think it harms the image if it doesn't fade towards the back ... it's simply a different style of work & a masterful example thereof!

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## Lalaithion

Majestic. This looks like it could be one of the coolest things i've seen here.

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## dasneviano

I wish I had the discipline to finish something like that!
Or the skills...

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## Gluhoded

Amazing! keep going! :-]

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## GrimFinger

My God, but isn't that a magnificent thing taking shape?

Something as grand as that couldn't have been built in a day - and hopefully, the end result will underscore that specific point. I wonder what architectural changes occurred, over the life of that collective construction project?

What is that on the right? A dam or an aqueduct of some sort? There's water flowing out of it. Where's it coming from? A river? A lake? An underground spring?

Where are the gates of this walled city? I'll be that they are truly something to behold?

I like the irregularity of the trees on the right near the water, more than I do the regularity of the houses within the walls. Were there building codes in those days? Were there housing subdivisions? Was the project one grand design, like a blueprint drawn well ahead of time and thought out in a very detailed manner? Who built it, and why?

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## jtougas

Amazing. Just amazing  :Smile:

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## Lyandra

I so love the way you draw cities! Please let us see more soon!  :Smile:

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## Blaidd Drwg

Well, I'm a bit stuck at the moment, because I'm yet sure how to proceed. Also a rather busy with other stuff.
But let's answer a few questions  :Smile: 




> To define the angle of the buildings alone would kill my nerves. Gosh, how you doing this? Or is it 'just' intuitive?





> Are you drawing this in an oblique perspective? I ask since I see the ruler and protractor out.


I don't really know all that much about the differences between the various types of parallel projections. I saw a wikipedia article once, but didn't get the gist of it  :Wink:  I suppose if it's any kind of projection, then oblique is probably closest, but I don't really bother much with working out angles and line lengths. Basically, I just draw the footprint intuitively and then I draw the vertical lines going up. If I'm happy with it, I ad a few details. The ruler/protractor I mostly use for drawing good parallel or perpendicular lines.




> (1) Something as grand as that couldn't have been built in a day - and hopefully, the end result will underscore that specific point. I wonder what architectural changes occurred, over the life of that collective construction project?
> 
> (2) What is that on the right? A dam or an aqueduct of some sort? There's water flowing out of it. Where's it coming from? A river? A lake? An underground spring?
> 
> (3) Where are the gates of this walled city? I'll be that they are truly something to behold?
> 
> (4) I like the irregularity of the trees on the right near the water, more than I do the regularity of the houses within the walls. Were there building codes in those days? Were there housing subdivisions? Was the project one grand design, like a blueprint drawn well ahead of time and thought out in a very detailed manner? Who built it, and why?


Wow, lot's of good questions. Thanks for taking the time to think about it and ask  :Smile: 
Ad 1) It certainly wasn't built in one day. My idea of its history are very sketchy. It was originally built by something of a lost civilization. The Roman-like buildings are all that is left of what these people once built and these currently house government and courts of law. The first humans to settle the remains built the walls and large square towers, ever expanding as the population grew. Eventually there wasn't enough room to expand even further so the rich and powerful started expanding up, building taller towers to outdo the others. This was during the heyday of this city, when it was the capital of a rich and powerful kingdom, called Firin-Iradas. In time, every square foot of ground was occupied and the city relied on its surrounding lands for food. At that time, the city was pretty much an impregnable fortress. Eventually, the power of the kingdom waned, and other kingdoms conquered the surrounding lands. In the end, Galastan was conquered not so much by siege or direct assault as by starvation. The city's isolated position meant it was completely cut off from its food supply and its king had no choice but to surrender.
Later a huge fire devastated much of the 'normal' houses in the city. They rebuilt, but the style is more in keeping with the architecture in the rest of the kingdom (the smaller houses with the pointy roofs).
Nowadays the city has lost most of it's military relevance. It's location in the nation is not of strategic importance and defense is no longer as important as it used to be. A lot of the towers have been converted to housing, with the rich renting them out to the lower classes.

Ad 2) nope, it's more of an outcrop with walls on three sides. I hope to make that more obvious when I work on it in photoshop. The water comes fromn a spring higher up the mountain and is led through an aquaduct to a cistern behind the row of houses on the top (not visible). After that it pours out into the park below.

Ad 3) there already are three  :Smile:  One is in the lower left corner (in pencil). The other two are on the inner ring. One on the left, still mostly in pencil, with a causeway leading up to the gate. The other one is the double tower in the center. Most of these gates are huge towers with very narrow entrances. The gate to the castle (not yet drawn) is going to be a lot larger, but that's one of the things I'm still not sure how to do.

Ad 4) the parks are meant to break that monotony up a bit. I don't know of any housing codes or blueprints  :Razz: 
This is quite a tricky bit. I wanted to have some distinctively different style for the older buildings in the city, but that kind of architectural awesomeness is quite beyond my skills, so I decided to keep it simple and square. And BIG.

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## Dream3r

Dear god, this is amazing! This is... this is... this is fantastic! Can't wait for the finished product!

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## Larb

I don't have a great deal to say on this but it's looking to be as potentially grand as your last one so I'm just going to wait and see. =P

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## Lorgath

This is looking very promising, I can't wait to see it develop.

How ARE you getting all the perspectives set out in your head? It would doubtless send me running off screaming about the angles.

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## kestrelgrey

Love this; just picked up a new fountain pen, and wasn't really sure what to try with it first. This is definitely impressive, and very inspiring. Looking forward to watch it develop!

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## Blaidd Drwg

Latest update.

It's been a while. I got stuck with this one, did some "work" finishing up older projects, private life got stuck, did nothing. But now I'm finally getting somewhere again  :Razz:

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## Vellum

Have a little rep, I think these 3d maps are pretty cool. Very nice job here.

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## - Max -

Really nice!

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## Larb

Oh I love that aqueduct leading to those man made "falls". That is wonderful - a really characterful feature of the city for sure.

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## arsheesh

This is another featured map in the making.  I'm loving where this is going!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Lukc

Yup, it looks absolutely lovely!

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## Freehand 5.5

That's a fine piece.

What thickness does the lines have?

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## Blaidd Drwg

@Freehand 5.5: I use a micron 005. But line thickness varies a bit. Sometimes by accident, sometimes by design  :Razz: 

Here's a new update. The city and castle/palace are finally done (and thank goodness for that. I've sort of had it with this map). I'm sure it'll become fun again once I get to the colouring part.  :Smile:

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## - Max -

Really like it. Can't wait to see it colored :-)

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## mearrin69

Wow. Reminds me of David Macaulay. I smell Featured Map!
M

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## Jaxilon

Awesome job on this. I look forward to seeing it completed keep up the good work. Looks like it took some patience.

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## Jordan A. Dunham

The first thing i have to say is "Wow"!

I've rarely seen a such detailed city on several levels with such perfect uniformity! I try to draw like that for more than three months but all i can produce is crap!
My deepest respect for that wonderful peace of art!

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## vorropohaiah

this really is shaping up to be a gorgeous map. I've been wanting to try my hand at something like this for ages now, though always get discouraged - it seems like so much hard work! 

how do you plan on colouring it (if at all) and if So, in what style?

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## Blaidd Drwg

WIP
Time to add some colour  :Smile: 



@Vorropohaiah: yes, I'm going to colour it. Roughly the same style as with Val Nevan, I think, but I'm not sure yet. 
@Jordan: just keep at it! And don't rush anything  :Wink:  Did you post any of your work on this forum?

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## vorropohaiah

That's really glorious! Create a dozen more, add a few thousand words of history to each one, maybe some filler pictures, and you've got yourself a lovely book you can publish through createspace or Lulu. 

Amazing stuff, really. I have to try something like this (albeit much worse!)

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## - Max -

Awesome city, really!  :Smile:

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## Clercon

That is a fantastic map! Looking forward to see it coloured.

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## Freehand 5.5

Oh, Blaidd Drwg!
Your ideas are a flowery meadow full of butterflies.
Your pencil is the sledge of map forging.
Your colors shall be the vision of cartographer's paradise.

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## Vellum

Awesome!! I'd give you more rep but I gotta spread it around  :Frown:   this will look mighty fine once you start putting the color to it for sure.  So how's the color gonna work, you using hardware (ink / paint / etc) or software (PS / Gimp)?

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## arsheesh

Damn.  I think you sir may be in store for another featured map award.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## dasneviano

Wow!! This is the most inspiring work I've seen in a good while! If you color it like Val Nevan (one of my favorites ever), my monitor will probably just explode in excitement! Can't wait to see it finished!

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## Wingshaw

Spectacular.

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## Blaidd Drwg

Latest versions.

I'm having some trouble with the colour of the walls. It's used to be more yellowish, but it was either too overpowering (if warm), or too much like vanilla pudding (if cool). I changed it something grey, but now it looks drab. 
Any suggestions?

#1

#2

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## - Max -

Hard to say without  shading/lightning work. Imho the yellow dont work very well and yea grey is greenish on the second one. You could maybe try rather a desturated light brown or a grey blue?

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## torstan

How about a desaturated blue set to overlay? That should colour shift the background a little and keep it nice and saturated (might be a little purple, but a second layer set to colour at low opacity should help balance that out).

Looking really gorgeous.

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## feanaaro

I'd say that #2 is perfect as it is. The wall should not pop-out too much, so a grey-ish colour is good.

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## Wingshaw

Looking great, so far. I agree that the walls on the two examples don't work perfectly at the moment, and I think Max might be right about the light and shadows. Just to be different, though, as a suggestion what about toning up the red as a low opacity overlay; it might result in lower contrast with the building roofs, which might be what is needed.

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## Blaidd Drwg

Thanks for your suggestions, people! I'll give them a try.

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## Freehand 5.5

I'd say it would make sense to give the walls a colour similar to the mountain, because that was most likely the building material for the walls.  :Wink: 
The grey tone seems to fit better in my opinion.
Shadows may be nice but you should keep it very subtle because after all the drawing has its emphasis on mapping and not on illustrating.

And: Wow!

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## Lyandra

That city looks amazing! I already cannot wait to see another one by you.  :Wink:

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## Beoner

Now that is something I'll have to try one day, yet I doubt I have the ability to do so.

A really beatiful map and piece of art, the same must be said about Val Nevan. I hope you can post more of your work, as it is a grea inspiration - at least for me.  :Wink:

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## WhiteAcre

I like the gray walls better, but I'm interested in how some of the suggestions would alter the color.  Awesome work!  This is probably an inappropriate thing to ask in a thread (or maybe at all), but do you take commissions?

Chris

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## rotti

I advice you just leave the sepia colour! Don't use any unnatural colours like red, blue, green. They make your art plastic and false. If you just make it sepia brown - you'll see - the effect will be stunning!!

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## - Max -

> I advice you just leave the sepia colour! Don't use any unnatural colours like red, blue, green. They make your art plastic and false. If you just make it sepia brown - you'll see - the effect will be stunning!!


I disagree with this. Red, blue , green, unnatural colours? well, go outside and look around you  :Wink:

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## mearrin69

I think the colors are appropriate. Looks as if this was hand-inked on parchment and then colored with natural ink wash. Looks very nice!
M

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## vorropohaiah

> I advice you just leave the sepia colour! Don't use any unnatural colours like red, blue, green. They make your art plastic and false. If you just make it sepia brown - you'll see - the effect will be stunning!!


I know others have beaten me to it but... Those are the most common pigments! The style of map this emulates uses just those sorts of colours!

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## rotti

Eventually colours like blue, green and red are obviously natural. Like pink. Still, you won't make your old style map inked pink. A piece of art that we definietely have here, is supposed to pretend it's made by some medieval scribe. How lovely would be to see it made in sepia brown and yellow - kind of da vinci style.

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## rotti

As I can see - your awarded map (The High-empire of Korachan and the Inner Sea by vorropohaiah) is made in... guess what! In sepia. Why? Because this way it looks incredible.

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## - Max -

> Eventually colours like blue, green and red are obviously natural. Like pink. Still, you won't make your old style map inked pink. A piece of art that we definietely have here, is supposed to pretend it's made by some medieval scribe. How lovely would be to see it made in sepia brown and yellow - kind of da vinci style.


Medieval scribes used a lot of colored pigments in illuminated books. And you can find same kind of colors on some city or town maps from 14th to 17th century aswell. Take a look at Goa's Braun Hogenberg for example, who used a lot of green, rend and orange on it.

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## Gamerprinter

Really sepia tones on a map means it's aged, which also means fading, yellowing and loss of color. So many maps that are supposed to depict new locations seem to require hundred year old maps because of an over reliance on sepia tone colors. Regarding colors on illuminated documents, check out the Book of Kells. If you want traditional illuminated maps, you definitely want colors. If you want your map to look old, then, and only then consider using sepia tones.

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## rotti

I already gave you my opinion. I respect yours. I just see that an author of the picture feels he must have missed something. And keeps asking what it is. I just gave my advice.

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## Blaidd Drwg

Rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated ... Back again.  :Razz: 

I took a break from this map and did some stuff in the real world and a different, smaller map to take my mind off this one.
Old maps can be coloured quite beautifully, actually. I don't think those vibrant colours and some kind of ageing are mutually exclusive, provided the aging is very subtle. Without, say, an aged paper background, I can't get it to look as if it was drawn on something other than modern paper. If you have the time, take a look at this video, about a reproduction of an Atlas by Frederick de Wit. I'm afraid it's all in Dutch, but the maps speak for themselves. They look very warm and vibrant, but the paper is a bit yellow-y, nonetheless. (the book by the way, also has text in English. I've pre-ordered one immediately).

But I think the problem with this map was the shading. Well, that and the fact I wasn't really sure where I wanted to take it. As someone pointed out earlier, it's hard to see what the problem is, because the map wasn't shaded yet. So I went back to the original drawing and did just that. I wouldn't be surprised if the colours look much better now.

Thanks again for all your input! You've been a great help  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

great vid, and looking forward to seeing more from this and other maps in the future - love you maps very much

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## - Max -

I hope this will help you with colours but at least it's some improvments :-D keep up the great job

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## Freehand 5.5

I like the black and white map more than the coloured ones.

The Atlas de Wit is a precious jewel. Thanks for that one.

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## arsheesh

Beautiful work on the shading!  This is an inspirational piece. 

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Counlin

WOW!!! This forum is full of epic pieces of art, and this is one of them in my opinion. Just beatiful so far, can't wait to see it finished. If it helps at all, I think that coloured versions were pretty nice.

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## Lyandra

That looks so much better! And I thought the previous version was awesome.  :Smile:

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## Blaidd Drwg

Well, the actual analog stuff is finally done. I'm not sure if I even want to colour it anymore.
I'll put together a quick coloured version later, just to give myself (and you) an idea of what it might look like.

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## vorropohaiah

gorgeous  :Smile:  though the text looks somewhat wobbly

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## - Max -

Great job, even without colours....seems very inspiring to colour it up though  :Wink:

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## Ramah

Wonderful stuff! Absolutely gorgeous.  :Smile: 

Not sure if it bothers you or not but there is a tree located at  no. 7 where you can see the wall through it. Also, I may be reading it wrong but there is a diagonal line that doesn't look like it's supposed to be there just up and to the right of no. 18 going through the aquaduct. Nitpickers ahoy!

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## Aredhel

This map is awesome!

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## Lyandra

Beautiful!  :Very Happy:

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## Lukc

Gorgeous! Though I admit to finding the plain version even better than the coloured one! Have a bunny star!

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## Blaidd Drwg

> gorgeous  though the text looks somewhat wobbly


It does, doesn't it? My dip pen decided to go blotty on me when I started writing and couldn't seem to clean it well enough. I've replaced the writing now with something digital. Looks better, I think, even though the kerning is a bit off at times.




> Not sure if it bothers you or not but there is a tree located at no. 7 where you can see the wall through it. Also, I may be reading it wrong but there is a diagonal line that doesn't look like it's supposed to be there just up and to the right of no. 18 going through the aquaduct. Nitpickers ahoy!


Haha, nice how people look that closely.  :Razz:  Yes, they did bother me. They're gone now. As are a few others you didn't find. Thanks  :Wink: 

Anyways, it's done!  I decided against colouring it, in the end. It didn't work. I think that's because the walls are the most common element in the drawing (as opposed to the red roofs and green fields in Val Nevan) and the yellow/grey makes the map look kind of boring and drab. I might one day find a better way of colouring it, but I'm calling it a day now.

Thanks again for all your thoughts, input and support. You've been a great help!

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## - Max -

This font is kinda overused but well it fits the map  :Smile:

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## Blaidd Drwg

True. I've been looking for something else, but I can't seem to find one I like. That's why I tried to do the lettering myself, first.

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## - Max -

You're looking for a handwriting one right? around which century style?

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## feanaaro

These are probably the best city map around. However, I have an unfulfilled dream, which would be to see the technique applied to proper "cities" (this, as well as Val Nevan, is more of a town). Surely, it would be an incredible amount of work to do a big city in this way, but the result would be astounding!

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## vorropohaiah

> These are probably the best city map around. However, I have an unfulfilled dream, which would be to see the technique applied to proper "cities" (this, as well as Val Nevan, is more of a town). Surely, it would be an incredible amount of work to do a big city in this way, but the result would be astounding!


Eeeexcelent... i concur!

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## Blaidd Drwg

> However, I have an unfulfilled dream, which would be to see the technique applied to proper "cities" (this, as well as Val Nevan, is more of a town). Surely, it would be an incredible amount of work to do a big city in this way, but the result would be astounding!


I know, right! These are essentialy 'practice' maps for when I do the capital of the country my previous two cities are in. But the prospect of all that work ... I'll need to buy bigger paper  :Razz: 




> You're looking for a handwriting one right? around which century style?


Not sure, I'll know it when I see it. 15th-16 century cursives are nice, expecially the English ones. But it'd be nice to have a good number of all kinds of old fonts.

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## vorropohaiah

> I know, right! These are essentialy 'practice' maps for when I do the capital of the country my previous two cities are in. But the prospect of all that work ... I'll need to buy bigger paper


you could always draw them on multiple papers of the same size you've been using and then stitch them together after scanning (you'll have a problem scanning them anyway if you use much bigger paper

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## Blaidd Drwg

Hmm, I've thought of that, but I think drawing a large map on several loose sheets of paper will make it very hard to get everything to line up. Not that it's always very easy with two scans of an A3 sheet, but with some fiddling I usually get it done. A2 should  be possible: four scans, one for each corner.

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## darkseed2012

Actually, you can get over sized scans done at Konkos.  I've used them for scans when I used to do single large maps.  Konko's can scan up to 600 dpi in color.  That's what is available in San Francisco.  I've always had trouble stitching images back together digitally.  I've done it once where the map came out looking good at a distance, but close it looked like Frankenstein monster.  Konkos charges per square foot, but it's worth it.  Some places will really make sure it comes out good.  Personally I would look for an copy store or some kind of print shop to scan your work in.  If one place can't do it, they often know of a place that have a scanner big enough.

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## rotti

> Anyways, it's done!  I decided against colouring it, in the end. It didn't work. I think that's because the walls are the most common element in the drawing (as opposed to the red roofs and green fields in Val Nevan) and the yellow/grey makes the map look kind of boring and drab. I might one day find a better way of colouring it, but I'm calling it a day now.
> 
> Attachment 52909


This is exactly what i was talking about from the very beginning. Uncolouring it - was the best thing you could do. Truly simple but still magnificent effect.

Respects.

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## dasneviano

Oh man, I was really looking forward for the coloured version! 
But it does look great as it is, and you have your reasons!
Congratulations and I can't wait to see more of your work!

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## mystic badger

Now if you could do a tutorial, it would be terrific ! the pointers you've given in this thread are very helpful, but I have difficulties with the isometric construction, especially the basics (and my dream would be to make something less "straight"). Or do you have some quick tips/links ?

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## Blaidd Drwg

Hmm, I don't know if I have the time to do a tutorial. But if you could be a bit more specific, I might be able to help (because I'm not quite sure what you mean with 'the basics' and 'less straight')  :Smile:

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## Aralan

Blown away. Thank you this is breathtaking.

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## Hatann

I love it so far. Incredible attention to detail. And even the name is great!

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