# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Software Discussion >  GIMP 2.10 vs Krita vs ???

## Gidde

Turns out that after 6 years of not drawing, I'm completely out of touch on software (hence my recent posts being entirely analog).

Adobe has made me beyond angry by not offering Photoshop in any way other than a cloud solution with storage I don't need and other software I don't want, so that one's right out.

Gimp 2.10 is ..... WEIRD. Is it worth getting used to? Has anyone else upgraded from 2.8? Can I just install 2.10 or should I remove 2.8 first?

What is this Krita I keep hearing about? Their website isn't very descriptive, other than saying hey look these people used it to paint these pictures.

Is there something else I should be looking at? I don't mind paying -- if it's reasonable.

I do like to actually draw stuff with a tablet, so I'm not really interested in CC3 etc., and wow I'm horrible with vectors, so I need something raster-based.

What does everyone suggest?

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## AzureWings

Regarding GIMP 2.10: I've found it to be functionally fairly similar to 2.8 in usage in most ways. I always had the occasional bugs using 2.8 and the biggest change is that 2.10 has _different_ (but about the same in terms of obnoxiousness) bugs. I went ahead and just installed it right next to 2.8 myself; didn't bother removing the older version though doing so shouldn't cause any trouble.

I can't speak to Krita or other raster-based options, since for raster art GIMP is the only thing I've really used heavily. I've seen a lot of folks here and elsewhere cite Krita as a relatively comparable free raster art tool to GIMP though, with its strengths in slightly different areas. I recall specific praise about Krita concerning custom brush composition or something like that?

I agree about Adobe's Creative Cloud too; while software-as-a-service is an excellent model for enterprise clients, as a consumer I find it offensive when presented as the sole option.

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## Gidde

Thanks for the info, AzureWings! Have you noticed any tablet lag? It took forever messing with settings to get rid of it in 2.8.

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## Azélor

I've heard about Krita too but have yet to see a map made with it. 

I know Gameprinter uses Xara.

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## Sam101

Krita has nicer brush engines (more than one!)than Gimp and non-destructive filter layers (like PS adjustment layers).

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## kacey

I prefer Krita for free software, I think it has allot more going for it then gimp though I cant speak to the newest version of Gimp since all it wants to do is crash on my computer... and forgive me if Im wrong but I believe Voolf uses Krita for his maps and he creates some of the nicest work on the forum so I think its worth a try. If I absolutely could not afford to keep up with my photoshop subscription (which is only 20 dollars a month Canadian) then I would shell out a few bucks for clip studio, and they have sales often enough so you can get it pretty cheaply if youre patient.

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## AzureWings

Hearing all this is making me want to give Krita a try myself...

Regarding tablet lag Gidde, I haven't really noticed any significant tablet lag with either GIMP version (using a rather old Wacom Intuos Pro), except for whenever I move the pen from distant to close proximity with the tablet surface, or vice-versa (I got so used to keeping the tip near the surface at all times when drawing because of this that I almost forgot about it). I don't think that experience differed for me between 2.8 and 2.10 either.

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## Tenia

I have to have a look on Krita. I switched from Gimp to Artrage (pro) more than one year ago, I've never regretted my money and I mainly use it, except for some little annoying things (see below) I was at the beginning attracted by the paint tube and knife tool, but now I mostly use watercolors and ink pen. Concerning the feeling of drawing or painting, compared with Gimp, it is day and night. Beware however that, if Artrage rocks at digital painting it is not specially friendly for some mapmaking features: For example there is no mask layer (althought the stencil tool can be used at), the selection tool really s.cks (the selection "dots" can not be hidden, you can not extend or reduce the selection, etc.) and it has a very limited number of filters (but you can import some photoshop ones)

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## KCRileyGyer

While I do have Gimp 2.10, I'm also a beginner and know next to nothing about the program. I also used a new basic Wacom tablet with it and have no lag with it. The only issue is to make sure the tablet is turned on before opening Gimp. When compared to older Gimp tutorials, it is obvious there are some changes to the new version but the only thing I truly find as different (based on the tutorial that's a few years old) is the way the multiply in the layer mode behaves. I haven't had a chance to work out a workaround to that.

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## MapMappingMapped

I do believe I was told Krita is better for use with a tablet, but I haven't used it and very rarely use gimp too.

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## Gidde

> I know Gameprinter uses Xara.


Yes, he gets amazing results with it, but I checked it out years ago and it was a few miles out of my price range  :Frown: 




> Krita has nicer brush engines (more than one!)than Gimp and non-destructive filter layers (like PS adjustment layers).


That is really helpful info! Thanks!




> I prefer Krita for free software, I think it has allot more going for it then gimp though I can’t speak to the newest version of Gimp since all it wants to do is crash on my computer... and forgive me if I’m wrong but I believe Voolf uses Krita for his maps and he creates some of the nicest work on the forum so I think it’s worth a try. If I absolutely could not afford to keep up with my photoshop subscription (which is only 20 dollars a month Canadian) then I would shell out a few bucks for clip studio, and they have sales often enough so you can get it pretty cheaply if you’re patient.


Thanks! Yeah, the photoshop subscription isn't that *expensive* it's just that they won't unbundle it (I asked) and that ticks me off.  :Wink: 




> Hearing all this is making me want to give Krita a try myself...
> 
> Regarding tablet lag Gidde, I haven't really noticed any significant tablet lag with either GIMP version (using a rather old Wacom Intuos Pro), except for whenever I move the pen from distant to close proximity with the tablet surface, or vice-versa (I got so used to keeping the tip near the surface at all times when drawing because of this that I almost forgot about it). I don't think that experience differed for me between 2.8 and 2.10 either.


Thanks! That tells me my lag issues are *me* not Gimp, which is valuable info  :Smile: 




> I have to have a look on Krita. I switched from Gimp to Artrage (pro) more than one year ago, I've never regretted my money and I mainly use it, except for some little annoying things (see below) I was at the beginning attracted by the paint tube and knife tool, but now I mostly use watercolors and ink pen. Concerning the feeling of drawing or painting, compared with Gimp, it is day and night. Beware however that, if Artrage rocks at digital painting it is not specially friendly for some mapmaking features: For example there is no mask layer (althought the stencil tool can be used at), the selection tool really s.cks (the selection "dots" can not be hidden, you can not extend or reduce the selection, etc.) and it has a very limited number of filters (but you can import some photoshop ones)


Oooooh, that sounds awesome! As a bonus, Artrage is on sale right now AND has an unlimited demo! Downloaded. Thanks!!





> The only issue is to make sure the tablet is turned on before opening Gimp. When compared to older Gimp tutorials, it is obvious there are some changes to the new version but the only thing I truly find as different (based on the tutorial that's a few years old) is the way the multiply in the layer mode behaves. I haven't had a chance to work out a workaround to that.


You know, that may be the key to the lag I had/have with Gimp! Thanks!!! I'll see what I can do about updating that old tut.




> I do believe I was told Krita is better for use with a tablet, but I haven't used it and very rarely use gimp too.


Thanks! 

Well after all this fantastic info, I have decided to download Gimp, Krita AND Artrage (at least the demo for now). Thank you so much everyone!!

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## Redrobes

> Yes, he gets amazing results with it, but I checked it out years ago and it was a few miles out of my price range


Its free for linux:
http://xaraxtreme.org/download.html
You could run that from windows via a virtual box.

I use Gimp and Krita and a few other programs. Gimps bugs are annoying but not bad enough to warrent not using it. But some aspects of the UI are better doing on other programs - like placing text for example. Gimp is not so good at that. Otherwise its a farly good raster package and has good import and export abilities.

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## Voolf

Giddie, Krita is by far the best free alternative to PS out there. IMHO it is even better than PS regarding drawing (not photo edditing).
It has options to set shortcuts simillar to PS (there are still some differences, but not as many and weird as Gimp). 
If you used PS so far, it may be hard to switch to Kita at first, but once you get familiar to it, it's really great tool.

Worth checking out:
Affinity Photo - I own a copy. You buy it once and you get all updates, no subscription. It is as awesome as PS, though may still have some bugs. I bought it last year, but not use it due to Wacom lag input bug. it's been fixed some months ago and it works like a charm, but for some reason i grow too fond of Krita, and just don't feel like switching to Affinity. Still poweful tool, if developed right way, may beat PS in near future.

Paint Tool Sai - also great tool for digital drawing. Usually used by comic/manga artist, but can be used for maps as well.

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## Texas Jake

Another program to throw in for consideration is Autodesk SketchBook which is now a free program. I use it and it is my preferred drawing program. There are a fair amount of brushes that are available for it that are also free for download.

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## Straf

> While I do have Gimp 2.10, I'm also a beginner and know next to nothing about the program. I also used a new basic Wacom tablet with it and have no lag with it. The only issue is to make sure the tablet is turned on before opening Gimp. When compared to older Gimp tutorials, it is obvious there are some changes to the new version but the only thing I truly find as different (based on the tutorial that's a few years old) is the way the multiply in the layer mode behaves. I haven't had a chance to work out a workaround to that.


If you set the layer modes to legacy then they'll behave like in the olden days  :Wink:

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## Gidde

> Its free for linux:
> http://xaraxtreme.org/download.html
> You could run that from windows via a virtual box.
> 
> I use Gimp and Krita and a few other programs. Gimps bugs are annoying but not bad enough to warrent not using it. But some aspects of the UI are better doing on other programs - like placing text for example. Gimp is not so good at that. Otherwise its a farly good raster package and has good import and export abilities.


Yeah, text on Gimp has always been icky. I was hoping that had been resolved in 2.10 >.< 




> Giddie, Krita is by far the best free alternative to PS out there. IMHO it is even better than PS regarding drawing (not photo edditing).
> It has options to set shortcuts simillar to PS (there are still some differences, but not as many and weird as Gimp). 
> If you used PS so far, it may be hard to switch to Kita at first, but once you get familiar to it, it's really great tool.


I used both (old) Photoshop and Gimp 2.8, so yeah, Krita is a little weird, but I'm starting to get somewhat used to it. I may have questions for you!




> Another program to throw in for consideration is Autodesk SketchBook which is now a free program. I use it and it is my preferred drawing program. There are a fair amount of brushes that are available for it that are also free for download.


I may give that a try once my brain stops hurting from trying to learn these ones  :Wink: 




> If you set the layer modes to legacy then they'll behave like in the olden days


Good info!!


Well, after fighting with Gimp 2.10 to recognize my tablet (it won't, no matter what I do), I've been playing with Krita and ArtRage all day. I am REALLY liking ArtRage, but I'll probably keep messing with all 3 and switch stuff back and forth like I used to with Gimp and PS. I wish I'd have had ArtRage for when I was planning out that photo challenge; the "reference" feature is REALLY cool and would have helped!

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## Voolf

> I used both (old) Photoshop and Gimp 2.8, so yeah, Krita is a little weird, but I'm starting to get somewhat used to it. I may have questions for you!


Sure, but better send me a PM here, or email. I don't browse forum as often as before and i may easily miss your questions.




> I wish I'd have had ArtRage for when I was planning out that photo challenge; the "reference" feature is REALLY cool and would have helped!


I am not familiar with reference in ArtRage. But if it's just adding a refference image to the side of canvas, Krita also has that option  :Wink:

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## Gidde

Really? I haven't found it. I'll have to dig more.

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## Voolf

When you drop image directly on the canvas, you will get a pop up menu with options like

insert as New Layer
Insert as a File Layer
Open in New Document
Open as Reference Image 

You can also select tool called "Reference Images Tool" and then in tool options docker (or toolbar, depending on Krita configurations) you have options to add/delete reference images and change their opacities and saturation.

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## Gidde

Thanks! I'll look into that  :Smile:

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## kinwolf

Is there any basic tutorial on how to use krita to make maps?

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## Falconius

GDQuest on Youtube has a lot of tutorials about how to use Krita.  I don't know of any specific mapping tutorials for Krita, but if you use the program you'll start to learn it, and really any of the raster based tutorials will work on Krita as well.  The difficulties would occur more in the tool heavy tutorials where they are using random noise and gradients and filters etc. because the access to those tools will be different and in some cases Krita may not have them (though it'd be fairly rare I think for that to happen).  So my suggestion would be to use that channel on Youtube to learn the basics of Krita, and then you can use the tuts here and be strong enough in Krita to translate them effectively for use.

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## kinwolf

Indeed, while waiting for the moderator to approve my post above, I fired up krita with a photoshop tutorial and I wasn't -too much- lost  :Smile:   Relatively easy to find the equivalent way to do stuff.

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