# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Regional/World Mapping >  Mars Map (redone)

## Ilanthar

I'm a bit scattered I'm afraid, but I really want to redo my old map of Mars for my Elzevir world. I'm going with a very huge base from USGS for this, in order to work out the details...
Just testing right now, so every comment is welcome!

This is approximately a quarter of the map (without the poles), and sadly, I already had to split it in two...  :Confused:

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## ChickPea

I can't fault you for ambition!  :Smile:  Watching this one develop with interest. 

(PS did you happen to see this Mars map that was all over the web the other day?)

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## Ilanthar

Thanks a lot for the comment and the link ChickPea. It's a great map that goes right in my inspiration folder!

I was thinking of doing something more close of my Elzevir Geopolitics map, with a painting that indicates the biomes... I'm doing a few tests actually, as you can see below.

It's gonna be a long run anyway, and I'm not sure of what I want exactly (except that I want to put a lot of informations on it), so every idea is very welcome!

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## Caenwyr

Cool, it looks like an interesting project! A suggestion (and your free to take it or leave it or do anything you want with it): if your aim is to make it look like a habitable world with seas and rivers, you might wanna try eroding the landscape a bit before you start colouring it in (Wilbur might help there). At the moment it looks like a parched, pockmarked world someone just dumped a few billion gallons of water on. Everything is filled in nicely, but there's no sign of a history of sedimentation, erosion, ... as you would have in an actual river-and-ocean world. 

Also, if you squint real hard, the image starts to look a bit like a blond poodle  :Very Happy:

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## Ilanthar

Thanks Caenwyr!

I like your suggestion, but I'm not likely to do drastic changes from the original map. I could do things though and interested in the idea. How would you do it with Wilbur? I'm afraid the size of the map and the not-so-great abilities of my computer will make it quite impossible to handle...
Maybe I could erode some craters?

And yeah, after the bloated pelican, it's hard for me to not see the blond poodle  :Razz: !

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## Wired

> I'm a bit scattered I'm afraid, but I really want to redo my old map of Mars for my Elzevir world. I'm going with a very huge base from USGS for this, in order to work out the details...
> Just testing right now, so every comment is welcome!
> 
> This is approximately a quarter of the map (without the poles), and sadly, I already had to split it in two...


Uh, could you link me to the USGS database you're using? 'cause it seems I'm too dull to find it myself on the USGS site...  :Frown:

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## johnvanvliet

in the PDS ( Planetary Data System ) archive 

the MOLA  (Mars Orbital Laser Altimeter ) data is here
http://pds-geosciences.wustl.edu/mis...mgs/megdr.html

The laser died VERY early in the mission so the laser count if very LOW 
90+% of the data is interpreted 


MSSS processed the MOC data
the old almost full map of mars 

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/...las/index.html
the data
http://www.msss.com/mgcwg/mgm/



for the old files at the USGS 
the viking MDIM2.1 data 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/search/...lobal_232m/cub


also other grided data
http://www.mars.asu.edu/data/

you can also use "map-a-planet "
http://www.mapaplanet.org/


or one of the search tools
http://ode.rsl.wustl.edu/mars/

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## Ilanthar

Oups, sorry, I assumed it was from the USGS site (I found this a while ago). After a new search, I found it here.
It's under Creative Commons.

Appears to be the work of Daniel Machacek, based on the MOLA data. Hey, he did great topo maps of Venus and Titan too!

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## Wired

Thank you!

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## Lingon

> And yeah, after the bloated pelican, it's hard for me to not see the blond poodle !


Lol Ilanthar  :Laughing:  We should do a challenge of that, maps that look like animals…
This looks really cool! Maybe I'm slow though, but I don't quite understand how much of it that is the base map, and how much is your work. Possibly just because I'm not familiar with the technique... A before/after comparison would be interesting for me!

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## jshoer

> A suggestion (and your free to take it or leave it or do anything you want with it): if your aim is to make it look like a habitable world with seas and rivers, you might wanna try eroding the landscape a bit before you start colouring it in (Wilbur might help there). At the moment it looks like a parched, pockmarked world someone just dumped a few billion gallons of water on. Everything is filled in nicely, but there's no sign of a history of sedimentation, erosion, ... as you would have in an actual river-and-ocean world.


The scientific consensus at this point is that Mars _was_ once a river-and-ocean world. It _does_ have a history of sedimentation, erosion, and so on. The Mars Science Laboratory Curiosity rover has provided pretty unequivocal evidence for lots of water-influenced features. If Ilanthar used DEM data, then he's got those features already!

I think the issue you're seeing is that those features are difficult to see at the global scale of Ilanthar's map. And, in fact, every time NASA puts out a concept image of Mars in its primordial oceanic state, it looks kind of like a "pockmarked world someone just dumped a few billions gallons of water on."

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## johnvanvliet

> . If Ilanthar used DEM data, then he's got those features already!


the problem is with the MOLA data 

it is inferred from VERY sparse data using a spline curve fit ( i have work extensively with this data )
the hirise stereo dems and stereo pairs of CTX images is needed 
this will be a while before it is near being done 

the river flows and flood plains seen in the imaging data is really not in the mola dem

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## Ilanthar

> *By Lingon*
> Lol Ilanthar We should do a challenge of that, maps that look like animals


Something like "there's an animal hidden in this map, would you find it?"  :Very Happy: ?




> A before/after comparison would be interesting for me!


Sure, here's a quick explanation of my current work : 
A piece of the base map

I just want the topography, so I removed the rest

I turn it in grayscale

Then a layer for the color of the water, and three other for the coastlines... My current test on a eighth of the map  :Smile: !

What do you think of the coastlines?

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## Ilanthar

I expand the colors and tried a few things. And I'm partly satisfied, the desert is probably too blank and to bright and I don't know if this is really working without getting further in the details anyway.

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## Ilanthar

Many things are posing problems right now with this map... First, the source map is not using a gradiant from dark to bright for the altitude, hence a problem. Second, with this level of details, I realize than many rivers are just having impossible paths...
My first try, with no corrections.

Then I tried to correct the first issue by almost eliminating the constrast of the different colors, in PSP7.

An other try with a comparable Inkscape filter.

Which one do you find better?

Concerning the second problem, I think I'll probably change as much as I can the course of the problematic rivers...
And I know I need to rework the snow. It's not at all what I want.

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## Lingon

> Something like "there's an animal hidden in this map, would you find it?" ?


Hehehe, exactly  :Laughing:  Thanks for the explanation! I like to see other people's processes, there's always something to pick up, and understanding what you're doing makes it easier to comment too! I love the colors you're putting on this, very Ilanthar-esque  :Smile:  Regarding the three versions, I like the last one, it's subtler in the shading which I think is what a map of this size and detail level needs. Will be very interesting to see the rivers placed.

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## Ilanthar

Thanks! The third had my preference too, but I wasn't sure if it wasn't too much.
I reworked the snow and think it's better now.
I've also done a few tests about rivers, cities and borders. The placements aren't correct, I'm just testing to see how it looks. I think I'll need the details and infos from the original map to do it right anyway.

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## Ilanthar

Some more tests about fonts/labels, an exploration camp (hedekas, near mount olympus) and a portal in the "mist" (SE of Sayansk).

I'm currently preparing the rest of the base map.

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## smiler127

As always you never fail to inspire! I can't wait to see how this project unfolds and learn from it!

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## Lingon

Östersund  :Laughing:  The new additions look great, nice fonts, lovely borders, cool symbols. The city dots could perhaps be a touch bigger, and less 3D-ish to fit more with the style of the borders? I'd also prefer less faint rivers, closer to the coastlines in thickness, though I guess that depends on how much other stuff you're going to put into the map and how important the rivers are.

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## Ilanthar

Thanks Smiler! I plan to do what work for this portion on the entire map.

I don't exactly recall where I found or how I choose the names, except that it had to be related to their country. The Vesterhaven Concordate being a sort of alliance between Scandinavia, Netherlands, South Africa and Indonesia, I have some swedish names. Google T says "is in good health", is that correct?
A big thanks for your good counsels, I tried to do less 3Dish and bigger cities, and change the set for the rivers. I think it does look better.

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## Lingon

Haha, no problem  :Very Happy:  The changes are spot on, small tweaks can make a big difference sometimes! And that alliance sounds… interesting  :Idea:  Which bit is the Google translation referring to? Östersund means "Eastern Strait", but I think you meant something else!

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## Ilanthar

> *By Lingon*
>  interesting Which bit is the Google translation referring to? Östersund means "Eastern Strait", but I think you meant something else!


Google T didn't really translate this. My mistake. Doesn't matters anyway, and Eastern Strait is fine, it's geographic at least  :Wink: !

Ok, some more tests. I've placed "correctly" the rivers and others elements (summits & altitudes, cities, etc.) I haven't placed all the cities yet, nor the labels and the grid lines is incomplete.

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## Ilanthar

Working slowly on this... I've the "base map" for a bit more than the half and I'm having hard time to do the coastlines. I think I'll have a salutary break with the Community Challenge!

Just to give you a view that I've been working on it  :Razz:

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## Lingon

Oh you tease, cropping it _just_ above Mars's best feature  :Wink:  Those archipelagos are awesome too, though. The coastline looks great. Looking forward to seeing what you do with your part of the Guild World  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

Yes, this is coming along nicely Ilanthar  :Smile: 
I think this will be spectacular when complete.

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## Ilanthar

OK, I haven't much time lately and I'm doing small progress on different projects. I just wanted to say I haven't completey abandon this one. The making of Ersïa and the Atlas award was reminders for this one.
So, I think I'm not going to do a "gigantic" map, but different regional maps for the different parts of Mars. Here's a start with the Valles Marineris Territories (grouping the Valles Marineris, Ophir and Bosporos Counties), a colony of the American Alliance.

I used some new things and techniques I've developed for Ersïa on this. The big labels (and some other stuffs) are just place holders. Colors aren't finished...

Thoughts?

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## Francissimo

Really cool project you have here Ilanthar :Smile: 
I see you are using something like an hillshade for topography, it works well!

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## Mouse

Looking at Mars maps is always fascinating - all those 'can't be natural' straight lines that run for thousands of miles, and an impossibly large volcano... but when you map it Ilanthar it literally comes to life!  :Very Happy:

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## johnvanvliet

if you want lines 

i cleaned up / repaired some old maps and remapped to simple cylindrical 
-- 1800+ to current

https://goo.gl/photos/NeoGiDq7z3KvvddS8

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## Ilanthar

Thanks guys!




> *By Francissimo*
>  I see you are using something like an hillshade for topography, it works well!


That's a desaturate/contrasted combination of layers. Same "basis" as before, but with different effects.




> *By Mouse*
> Looking at Mars maps is always fascinating - all those 'can't be natural' straight lines that run for thousands of miles, and an impossibly large volcano... but when you map it Ilanthar it literally comes to life!


Well, I agree that Mars has very interesting features! If I find a good method, I'll have all Venus & Moon in the same setting to do...




> *By Johnvanvliet*
> if you want lines
> i cleaned up / repaired some old maps and remapped to simple cylindrical
> -- 1600+ to current


Thanks for the ressources. I'm gonna keep the same basis as it is very big and detailed.

I reworked it to center it more .
Not sure about the layout... Else I keep only the Valles Marineris Territory or the whole thing. I will add some details in the bottom right, surely.
 & 
Which one do you prefer?
I'm also thinking about adding some contour lines to indicate topography.

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## Diamond

I'm so glad you came back to this!  It's looking fantastic; the colors seem just right to me, and I think I prefer the one on the left.  The other one is just too bare.

This makes me want to rework one of my oldest maps, a hand-drawn Mars map I did wayyyyyyyy long ago...

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## Mouse

I too prefer the one on the left, unless you are planning on adding a fair amount of information to the map in terms of notes, but you could always add words in boxes of plain background if you need them over the top of the land detail on the map on the left.  With the one on the right It would be difficult to fill that large blank area with notes if it turned out you didn't have enough notes to fill that space after all  :Smile:

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## Falconius

This is cool, very cool.  Definitely the one on the left.

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## Ilanthar

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys!

I haven't done much more on the map itself since I've lost a lot of time on different things... Among them, to do some "climatic diagrams".
I'm probably gonna do 2 maps, this one with climatic datas, a view of New Denver and some datas about sea/air travels. Another one with population density/economic activity.




> *By Diamond*
>  This makes me want to rework one of my oldest maps, a hand-drawn Mars map I did wayyyyyyyy long ago...


Oh, please, just do it!

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## Wired

This looks great. I really like the rather subtle colors you've put in place so far.  :Smile:

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## Ilanthar

Thanks, Wired!

I did a bit of contour lines (in the north part), but I'm not that sure it's worth the effort, to be honest.
I also reworked a bit the flags. All in all, just small progress...

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## Lucifer

Amazing map, truly. I really like how it captures the "red planet" vibe of Mars while adding vegetation and water. You also did a great job on the flags. Are they done through a program, or completely self-made? 
I must say I also adore the climate diagrams. It seems like such a perfect feature to have for a Mars map. And they also look quite cool.  :Wink:  

I am wondering: What scale is the map? Very curious about that. 

All in all, a great job once again Ilanthar! Right now, I cannot find anything I could complain about.  :Smile:

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## Ilanthar

Thanks, Lucifer  :Smile:  (It feels a bit odd to say that  :Surprised: )!




> *By Lucifer*
> Are they done through a program, or completely self-made?


It's self-made, but with the use of some resources.




> I am wondering: What scale is the map? Very curious about that.


Well, actually, I discovered that the scale on my old mars map is totally wrong... I added the correct one on the update.
It's a mercator projection, so I placed a scale each 10°. Not sure it's a good idea, though.

And I'm still not completely sold on the contour lines... I added a few more data and some more cities.
### Latest WIP ###

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## Ilanthar

Just a small update with more labels.

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## Mouse

This is coming on very nicely indeed.  It looks nearly finished  :Very Happy: 

You and Francissimo have just given me another challenge idea.  Thanks  :Smile:

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## Pixie

Despite the 5 pages of comments, I had missed this one completely! I guess I haven't noticed before who was the cartographer, Ilanthar, because your name is a guarantee-of-quality for me.

This map is looking great! I like the insets with information and I _love_ the multiple scales. You know, I'm the guy always caring for accuracy, and that level of detail is right-on!

Can't Rep you now, but this is rep-worthy!

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## kacey

Love it !!!

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## Ilanthar

Thank you guys  :Smile: !




> *By Mouse*
>  It looks nearly finished


If only...

I think I'll have to put the scale bars together in order to free more space for the other inserts... So, title and key for the main map are missing, same for the Key of the New Denver insert (which is unfinished) and I have the main travels by water to add.
Plus a whole bunch of labels and contour lines... so, still a lot to do!
### Latest WIP ###

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## Ilanthar

Small update.

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## Ilanthar

And another update, with a bit more contour lines (and a few summits), the inserts done.

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## Mouse

Airships and seaplanes... its like a map that's slipped through a wormhole in the space-time continuum from a parallel reality, where we colonised Mars in the 1940's, and very convincing  :Very Happy:

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## ChickPea

This is looking amazing! I love how you've done the terrain and the new additions look great.

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## Meshon

This is so good Ilanthar, it makes me think of the Nile, civilization clustered around the water in an otherwise inhospitable landscape.

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## Diamond

Ahhhhh, Ilanthar.  My faith as your fanboy is justified once again.  This is f*****g gorgeous, man.

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## Ilanthar

Thanks a lot guys  :Smile: !

I won't have the time to work on this again soon and since it's more or less the case, I turned this on into a finished map here.
This thread is not necessarily dead, though. I may need other parts of Mars for my game later.

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## Ilanthar

OK, time to resurrect this thread I guess (among the many I left aside...).
I recently started again to work on this mars map in my elzevir setting. Tired of the work on the nasa base map, I simply decided to try to do the shaded relief myself to win time and "adjust" things to my taste (less craters, more "common" topography).
I started with the Phlegra region and I'm pretty happy where this is going.

The funny thing is that I think I found what I was looking for my Osininka map...


I hope the labels are legible.

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## Ilanthar

Still on this. A test on a political map. I took some time to do the waters on the whole mars.

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## Ilanthar

This is going somewhere, I guess. I'm gonna do some infographics/map about each region (ressources, population, etc.).

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## Ilanthar

I've started the infographics.

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## MistyBeee

Damn ! How did I miss this thread ?!
I'm absolutely in love with your work on the relief here. Splendid !

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## Sandman01086

Really like this, especially love the infographics on there. Not seen it on many maps on here before so really makes yours stand out!

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## Ilanthar

> *By MistyBeee*
>  Damn ! How did I miss this thread ?!
> I'm absolutely in love with your work on the relief here. Splendid !


Summer  :Very Happy: ? I'm probably missing a lot of things, too.
Thanks a lot for the praise  :Smile: . It's very time consuming, though. Here's a bit more  :Wink: .




> *By Sandman01086*
> Really like this, especially love the infographics on there. Not seen it on many maps on here before so really makes yours stand out!


Thanks  :Smile: ! I'm still unsure about what to place on the second (right) map... Maybe a strategic map. If you have ideas, don't hesitate.

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## ThomasR

Told it already but it looks wonderful ! You are brave, Julien, very brave !

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## Ilanthar

> *By ThomasR*
> Told it already but it looks wonderful ! You are brave, Julien, very brave !


Or batsh*t crazy ! Thanks a lot, my friend.

Some more work on this part of the planet.

And about the thematic maps... I couldn't get something I like, so maybe just more data. Wadayathink?

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## MapMappingMapped

Wow Ilanthar, je kiffe! Really looking forward to a finished map baked and ready to eat!

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## Ilanthar

> *By MapMappingMapped*
> Wow Ilanthar, je kiffe! Really looking forward to a finished map baked and ready to eat!


 :Very Happy:  Thanks! Well, I finally placed a climatic map. I think it works. I guess it's close of a finished map of this region.

I still have to do a lot on the general map...

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## Ilanthar

OK guys, I think the map of New Hokkaido/Phlegra Region is done... unless you see something to change/add/correct?


And still more work on the general beastie.

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## Ilanthar

I added a few thing and posted the finished map of New Hokkaido/Phlegra here.

Still working on the rest!

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## Jean-Abdel

"New Carcassonne" and "Quissac" XD, I think I spotted where you are from ! Maybe more cities would have names of already existing cities on earth, or names given by the first colonists.

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## Ilanthar

> *By Jean-Abdel*
> "New Carcassonne" and "Quissac" XD, I think I spotted where you are from ! Maybe more cities would have names of already existing cities on earth, or names given by the first colonists.


Actually, I'm from Champagne  :Very Happy: ...
But since the coasts of the French Mars colonies have a mediterranean-like climate, I liked the idea  :Wink: . You should find both already. I often choose small towns on Earth, though.

Some more work on the south.

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## Ilanthar

For those interested, a quick show of the process.

"Main drawing layer", with the more details (Krita brush : basic-6 details).

General shading, underlying the main plateaus, mountain ranges, etc. large brush with a low opacity, with a lot of smudge/blur.

Additional topography (same basic-6 brush, double size) to reinforce some elements and add others. Gentle moves with less pressure.

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## MistyBeee

Interesting !  :Smile:

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## -K2-

I noticed a bot checking out this thread title. Wow, what fantastic work. I'd really like to see a collection of finished maps, where might I look?

Great job on all of this, it looks awesome!

K2

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## Ilanthar

> I noticed a bot checking out this thread title. Wow, what fantastic work. I'd really like to see a collection of finished maps, where might I look?
> 
> Great job on all of this, it looks awesome!
> 
> K2


Thanks a lot !

Here are links to the finished maps done so far : 
New Hokkaido
Elysium Territory
French Colonies of Mars
Orcus Territory
Indian Colonies of Mars
New Moravia
Olympus Territory
New Siberia
Elbenheim
Hohenberg
Aurora Territory
Valles Marineris Territories

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## -K2-

Well, since they're each posted in their own thread, I'll say it here. Fantastic work with not only the map itself, yet all the peripheral information, crests and so on. The best part is like any good map, it all makes me want to learn the story behind the places, people, cultures, and conflicts they represent. And the publishing date of 1949 makes me even more curious. Wonderful work that's impressive in all regards.

K2

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## Ilanthar

> Well, since they're each posted in their own thread, I'll say it here. Fantastic work with not only the map itself, yet all the peripheral information, crests and so on. The best part is like any good map, it all makes me want to learn the story behind the places, people, cultures, and conflicts they represent. And the publishing date of 1949 makes me even more curious. Wonderful work that's impressive in all regards.
> 
> K2


Thanks again, K2! 
Really glad you like those  :Smile: , it's one of my two big projetcs. Reading your comment, I realize I forgot to mention a few things & links.
First, you'll be able to find a map of Earth here, 
I've also plans for doing Venus & Moon maps in the same setting, with some tests here.
And some tests about historic map to go with the martian atlas here.

My plan is to get done at least the regional maps of Mars and maybe some full Mars Map at the end of this year. Though, I'm a bit late on schedule right now.

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## -K2-

> Thanks again, K2! 
> Really glad you like those , it's one of my two big projetcs. Reading your comment, I realize I forgot to mention a few things & links.
> First, you'll be able to find a map of Earth here, 
> I've also plans for doing Venus & Moon maps in the same setting, with some tests here.
> And some tests about historic map to go with the martian atlas here.
> 
> My plan is to get done at least the regional maps of Mars and maybe some full Mars Map at the end of this year. Though, I'm a bit late on schedule right now.


There is only one word for it...Spectacular!

I don't know if you're also a writer, but -"I"- am a firm believer that detailed world-building (not as literally as you've done with planets, hehe) goes a long way toward not only making a story concise but plausible. If you are--a writer--I hope you publish whatever this all goes with in English as well. If you're not, it might be well worth your while to find yourself a good one, and considering how developed your map work is, get them moving on your vision.

My Husband--who is a massive Edgar Rice Burroughs fan--really loved perusing the images. I could see the wheels turning into his mind as to what sort of story these all went with. When I point out that Venus, the Moon, and Earth are a part of the project, I expect he'll be even more excited at what might come.

Fantastic stuff!

K2

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## Ilanthar

> *By -K2-* 
> I don't know if you're also a writer, but -"I"- am a firm believer that detailed world-building (not as literally as you've done with planets, hehe) goes a long way toward not only making a story concise but plausible. If you are--a writer--I hope you publish whatever this all goes with in English as well. If you're not, it might be well worth your while to find yourself a good one, and considering how developed your map work is, get them moving on your vision.
> 
> My Husband--who is a massive Edgar Rice Burroughs fan--really loved perusing the images. I could see the wheels turning into his mind as to what sort of story these all went with. When I point out that Venus, the Moon, and Earth are a part of the project, I expect he'll be even more excited at what might come.


I'm no writer, just a table-top rpg game master who like to develop his own worlds. I do cherish the idea thath I'll be able to do a martian atlas in this setting (and possibly a venusian one) though.
Glad your husband like them too. I think my setting is more modern than E.R. Burroughs Mars since it's dated on an alternate 1948/1949. And my Mars is rather a cold world. But I can see there are some common things, and truth be told, the orignal idea for the whole setting was inspired by a picture of a WW2 planes dofight over the surface of another planet.

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## -K2-

> I'm no writer, just a table-top rpg game master who like to develop his own worlds. I do cherish the idea thath I'll be able to do a martian atlas in this setting (and possibly a venusian one) though.
> Glad your husband like them too. I think my setting is more modern than E.R. Burroughs Mars since it's dated on an alternate 1948/1949. And my Mars is rather a cold world. But I can see there are some common things, and truth be told, the orignal idea for the whole setting was inspired by a picture of a WW2 planes dofight over the surface of another planet.


Well, I don't think that an addition to or continuation of ERB's work is what he found so intriguing. It's the possibilities that arise from placing a story on another world. In such tales all bets are off. The best and worst of man's morality and motivations become un-tethered to the mindsets and politics of Earth. They might still have ties, but if the powers at be back on Terra attempt to exert too much influence, they risk rebellion and secession.

Your choice of dates--post-WWII--makes it equally interesting in that the alternate history coupled to limited advancements allows for more room to play and imagine.

Whether through intent or resulting circumstance, you've built quite a bit more world than just a map. The possibilities only limited by imagination.

Great work!

K2

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## KMAlexander

Fantastic work as always. Didn't realize you work in Krita.

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## Ilanthar

> Well, I don't think that an addition to or continuation of ERB's work is what he found so intriguing. It's the possibilities that arise from placing a story on another world. In such tales all bets are off. The best and worst of man's morality and motivations become un-tethered to the mindsets and politics of Earth. They might still have ties, but if the powers at be back on Terra attempt to exert too much influence, they risk rebellion and secession.
> 
> Your choice of dates--post-WWII--makes it equally interesting in that the alternate history coupled to limited advancements allows for more room to play and imagine.
> 
> Whether through intent or resulting circumstance, you've built quite a bit more world than just a map. The possibilities only limited by imagination.
> 
> Great work!
> 
> K2


For now, It's more colonies and the new place of competition for powers (there had been no world war in my setting, yet, but wars here & there, including on Mars). And yes, I'm clearly imagining that there will be a decolonization a bit everywhere at some point. My version of the LoN is also quite different since it has an army force and a lot more power and independence, mainly on the "other worlds".




> Fantastic work as always. Didn't realize you work in Krita.


Thank you very much! Yes, Krita became my main tool for almost everything since I bought a tablet.

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## Ilanthar

And by the way, I'm still working on the topography East of the Sea of Acidalia and the Lake of Argyre.
And on this view of Argentières....
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## MistyBeee

Oooh, nice view !!

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## Ilanthar

> Oooh, nice view !!


Thanks a lot. I think I'm gonna do this city smaller than I first intended though... Or more sparsely builded in the outer parts.
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## Ilanthar

Some more. I might add an airport close to the viewer's point.
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## Ilanthar

Still spreading the city on my spare time.
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## Ilanthar

What do you think of the airport? believable?
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## QED42

I know nothing about airports but would they have the runway on an axis that is facing into all the buildings of the town? If you have something flying over the town/city when it is taking off/landing doesn't that make it a lot more likely for someone to crash into the buildings? I would have thought it would be turned to be a bit more parallel to the buildings if that makes sense.

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## Tom

This is awesome!!! your illustration and concepts are amazing Ilanthar!
As for the airport question: it's a bit smaller to me.. runaways are miles longer, expecially near cliffs like those. Make the runaway proceede to the right and disappear "behind" the rock.

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## Arimel

I was wondering which thread this map disappeared too! I am glad I found it again (and now I subscribe here as well). The airport scale seems a bit small to me as well. Just looking at the town-building sizes as compared to the plane sizes the planes seem a bit small (although I know you have your own homebrew airship styles which very well could be smaller than the planes I know).

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## Ilanthar

> I know nothing about airports but would they have the runway on an axis that is facing into all the buildings of the town? If you have something flying over the town/city when it is taking off/landing doesn't that make it a lot more likely for someone to crash into the buildings? I would have thought it would be turned to be a bit more parallel to the buildings if that makes sense.


Yeah, that's a concern. I won't add many buildings in this area tough. The rest of the city will spread around the port, the rest will be more likely sparsed farms and crops.




> This is awesome!!! your illustration and concepts are amazing Ilanthar!
> As for the airport question: it's a bit smaller to me.. runaways are miles longer, expecially near cliffs like those. Make the runaway proceede to the right and disappear "behind" the rock.


Thanks a lot, Tom! Yeah the size and general view were my main concerns. I didn't really found precise data about the required length for planes of that time era. Seems that it's around 1,5-2 km, probably (smaller than today with the big airplanes).




> I was wondering which thread this map disappeared too! I am glad I found it again (and now I subscribe here as well). The airport scale seems a bit small to me as well. Just looking at the town-building sizes as compared to the plane sizes the planes seem a bit small (although I know you have your own homebrew airship styles which very well could be smaller than the planes I know).


héhé, yes, I thought it would be a way to maintain this thread active while I'm still doing topography around Argyre... Looks like you're already both to think I should expand the runaways. So, I'm gonna do that.
The planes are matching a late 40's period, so, there not so big.

Thanks for the helpful comments, guys!

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## Greason Wolfe

My only thoughts on the airport would be the physics of flight. Having not read through the entire thread for any details on atmospheric density or gravity....

If both are the same as Earth, the runways and minimum flight speeds would be the same as for Earth. Likely true if both are equally less than or greater than Earth.

If the atmosphere is thinner but gravity is still the same as Earth, you would probably want longer runways and need faster air speed to fly. Conversely, if the atmosphere is thicker and gravity is less than Earth, your runways wouldn't need to be as long, and you might be able to get away with a lower air speed.

Not being a physicist or aeronautical engineer, however, I can't say with absolute certainty whether or not that is the actual case. Just seems to make sense to me.

On another note, you continue to blow me away with this work. Every time I see an update, I just have to take a few minutes to drink in all the yummy details.

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## Ilanthar

> My only thoughts on the airport would be the physics of flight. Having not read through the entire thread for any details on atmospheric density or gravity....
> 
> If both are the same as Earth, the runways and minimum flight speeds would be the same as for Earth. Likely true if both are equally less than or greater than Earth.
> 
> If the atmosphere is thinner but gravity is still the same as Earth, you would probably want longer runways and need faster air speed to fly. Conversely, if the atmosphere is thicker and gravity is less than Earth, your runways wouldn't need to be as long, and you might be able to get away with a lower air speed.
> 
> Not being a physicist or aeronautical engineer, however, I can't say with absolute certainty whether or not that is the actual case. Just seems to make sense to me.
> 
> On another note, you continue to blow me away with this work. Every time I see an update, I just have to take a few minutes to drink in all the yummy details.


Thanks a lot, GW  :Smile: ! Well, despite its smaller size, "my" elzevir Mars has the same gravity and atmospheric pressure than Earth. Something only a handful of scientists (in the setting) are pointing as "weird" and "illogical" (even more for the moon...). But, as the Gates made things quite easy to go to those other worlds, I considered that nobody really cared about such things and the astrophysics and rocket sciences were less developed compared at our own history.

I increased the length of the airport runways, and I'm moving toward the port. Wadayathink  :Wink: ?

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## Ilanthar

Been some time, so, small update on this one.
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## Ilanthar

It's unfinished (missing labels in the Eastern part and the data under the map), but I'm wondering if it's a good thing to resize the Imperial Provinces at 75% to get them on one page. Readable? What do you think?
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## Ilanthar

So, finally, I'm gonna do the provinces on different pages at full size. This would be the size/look for the southern province of Malacandra. I think it's indeed better. Now I have to think If I split data between the provinces or not.
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## Ilanthar

The advices of Vorropohaiah about my Eldoran world map made me think about my Elzevir martian atlas... I will rework/replace the labels, & I'm wondering if I should place resources/additional data on the main map.
A bit like this test
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Thoughts?

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## Ilanthar

After many tests, I'll probably go with something close to that: map on one page, text/infographics on the opposite page.
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## Ilanthar

For those who might wonder... I've covered this part of the planet.
And I've still some hope to finish the base map before 2022... The hardest part will be the big area with no water bodies. Really glad there's the Hellas Sea in the South East.
It is at 25%.
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## Arimel

A giant project indeed. Glad to see you are keeping your motivation because this is a really impressive piece (or impressive pieces? Not certain whether singular or plural is correct here).

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## Ilanthar

> *By Arimel*
> A giant project indeed. Glad to see you are keeping your motivation because this is a really impressive piece (or impressive pieces? Not certain whether singular or plural is correct here).


Thank you very much Arimel. Well, Motivation come and goes, but I try to do a little every day if not every week.

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## Ilanthar

Still experimenting for my future elzévir martian atlas. First one is the basic version, second with enhance topo, third with enhanced topo & colors. Which one do you prefer?
Base

Enhanced topo (not everywhere though)

Enhanced topo and colors

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## Antoine.L

My preference goes to the third one: enhanced topo and colors. I found it more vibrant and the contrast makes the relief more readable.

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## Ilanthar

Merci Antoine  :Smile: !
Looks like you're not the only one, considering the answers I had on twitter.

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