# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  The Caverns of the Deepening Doom

## Tom_Cardin

I give you: The Caverns of the Deepening Doom

This is a map I kinda doodled together. I was really just working on a crosshatch fill pattern to use and it lead to actually putting a map together for it.

I had fun coming up with names in the map key, I hope they let peoples imaginations run wild. Feel free to interpret them as you will and use this in your game of choice.

Though it is very usable right now, it is still a WIP, I want to put details in some of the rooms that call for it.

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## töff

It's pretty!

Have you thought about a depth indicator?

I was considering a starmap that uses colors as the Z dimension. It might work for you here. Color works well as elevations on surface terrain maps, like in wargames.

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## Steel General

Nice! I especially like the background.

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## torstan

Looks great, though I have to say that I am allergic to that particular font!

It's a great and simple style. I may just have to steal that idea...

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## Tom_Cardin

toff - thanks! I was going for a mix of hand drawn and archaic style with functional. If I could figure out a depth cueing device that would mix well with this I think it would be great. I tend to see things in 3D space when I am imagining them so it would be really good to come up with a method to show depth well without it overwelming the look of the piece.

Steel General - Thank you! The parchment texure is a piece I just googled for and did some overlaying on it to lighten it up some where the actual caverns are.

torstan - Glad you like it. I will try to find more hypoallergenic fonts, but this one worked for me. hehe.

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## torstan

:Smile:  Not just me:

http://www.papyruswatch.com/

I love your water. What brush did you use for that? It looks almost like watercolour.

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## Steel General

But, but, but...I like the Papyrus font!  :Frown:

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## Ascension

If churches are finally using Papyrus, then they're probably just getting to the point where they use tentacles in all of their designs as well.  Damned trend whores finally making their way to the backwoods of culture.  I wonder how long it will take them to start putting vines and squiggly things on everything with retro grunge fonts.

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## torstan

SG then the mouseover text on this will warm your heart - but believe me, now you've seen it here you're going to start seeing it everywhere....

http://www.xkcd.com/590/

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## thebax2k

Very nice and simple map.  It reminds me of Phineas Crow's maps that he used to post on ENWorld.  Hope you do more.

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## Tom_Cardin

torstan - for the water I just used a plain round brush at about 60% hardness with wet edges turned on. Used a couple shades of blue at about 30% transparency, then hit it with the watercolor filter then faded the filter effect 50%. Lastly set the whole layer to normal and 40% opacity.

Steel General -  thanks for backing me up =)

thebax2k - Thank you!

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## rdanhenry

Nice. And not so overly specific that I couldn't use it, but with enough flavor it practically writes the adventure for me. I especially like the "Cave of Weeping Echoes".

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## Tom_Cardin

update - added shrooms to The Fungus Grotto and Vileslime Chamber - got rid of that nasty papyrus font.

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## Coyotemax

nice!  i like the mushrooms.  And good choice on the font..  it gives the same kind of look/feel without you having to dodge rotten fruit  :Razz:

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## töff

> If I could figure out a depth cueing device that would mix well with this  ... really good to come up with a method to show depth well without it overwelming the look of the piece.


A subtle color gradation might do it. Nothing rainbow .. just ... like a pale yellow for the highest, shading through to a gray-turquoise for the lowest. If you want a lot of depth, go three colors, maybe a washed-out sienna for whatever's really really low. Should be pretty easy to test out, and if you hate it, ditch it.

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## torstan

Like it a lot. And that's certainly a little easier on the eyes!

Those mushrooms are great.

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## töff

> got rid of that nasty papyrus font.


We all have our pet peeves, and familiar/overused fonts is certainly going to be one of them, for any group of people who are using fonts the way we do.

However, I think we need to keep a smidgeon of objectivity, and remember that -- other than some really bad kerning -- there's nothing that awful about Papyrus. In fact, for this image, I think it's better than the one you changed to.

*TECHNIQUE:* You know what I do, is, every time I need a "new" font, I get on those free font sites and find one I've never seen before. Sure, a lot of them are just renamed bootlegs ... but I can't tell the difference, and I often find a unique font, with lots of novelty value, to avoid the "omg not THAT font again" syndrome. Plus, because it's for a specific project whose flavor I kinda have in my head, it's not so difficult to find one that matches the overall feel I am going for.

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## torstan

I agree entirely. The papyrus comment was a little tongue in cheek, but it's got a bit of a reputation for itself and I think that's worth being aware of if you are interested in sending a map around.

I agree about the font websites. They are a brilliant source of inspiration and I've never failed to find something good with a little hunting. It certainly makes a difference to get the font bang on in a map.

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## töff

> the font websites. They are a brilliant source of inspiration


Of course, for a true creative type, the thing to do is make your own font. However, that's almost never practical because of the time it takes to make a font.

I once long ago had a nifty proggy that takes two fonts and "morphs" them together ... mixing a serif with a sans-serif generated some neat results. Oh, I remember the name: Font Chameleon! probably extinct.

You can also fudge existing fonts by converting them to outlines and applying various effects, especially distresses. Papyrus is distressed, which I think is its primary appeal, because the lettershapes themselves are less than unique.

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## Ascension

In PS, if you rasterize your type layer and then put a mask on it then you can do all sorts of fun things to the edges...cracks, blobs, bloats, drips, grunge, spikes, custom swashes, etc.  I do it frequently on large text, like for "Wanted" posters.

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## Steel General

> I once long ago had a nifty proggy that takes two fonts and "morphs" them together ... mixing a serif with a sans-serif generated some neat results. Oh, I remember the name: Font Chameleon! probably extinct.


Had a little time at work and exercised my so-so Google-Fu technique. Ares (the creator of Font Chameleon) was bought by Adobe and the software discontinued.

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## Tom_Cardin

coyotemax - Thank you!

toff - Good thinking. This update has some simple shading elevation to it. Let me know what you think.

torstan - Thank you! Another big font change. Now I am really happy with it.

Ascension - Yeah I work with type all the time and have a large collection of fonts. I was just lazy and threw something in there. This update has the benefit of me taking more time and finding one I was pleased with. I want to thank all of you for your suggestions because I often get lazy with things and call them done. Well not lazy but my focus is definitely on other bits, you guys help me look at all the aspects.

Steel General - Thanks for finding that out, I was tempted to go hunt for it.

And now my update: I changed the fonts again. Added elevation shading. Deepened the crosshatch pattern some and really worked up room 8. More still to do especially the Crystalline Vault. I may even revisit the mushrooms and give them more love.

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## Coyotemax

The crosshatching change is subtle but very worth it.

Eventually you'll settle on a font, I suppose (if yo haven't already, lol)

And remember - it's okay to love your mushrooms, but don't *LOVE* your mushrooms.

 :Very Happy:

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## torstan

Nice work. Perhaps a little drop shadow on all those elevations in room 8? At the moment they're a little bare as lines in contrast to some of the lovely subtle colours and shades elsewhere in the map.

And you might want to look at the errant label in room 5. I think one of your old fonts is trying to sneak back in...

The crosshatching is lovely. Is it a repeating pattern you created?

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## Tom_Cardin

coyotemax - Thank you!

torstan - Thank you! Some shading in room 8 will definitely help and thanks for spotting my errant font in room 5 (nearly impossible to proof my own writing)

Here is the pattern I made for the crosshatching:

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## torstan

Good grief - how long did that take you?

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## Tom_Cardin

about 15 minutes. 

I just made a 20 by 20 square with a 2 pixel wide line ever 2 pixels, added a slight amount of ripple to it. 

Then I took the square and cut it into an irregular shape and made it a smart object so I could rotate it all I wanted without loss. 

When I layed down a roughly 100 by 100 pixel patch of these shapes I merged them and made them a new smart object then did the same thing with the group until I had covered a 1000 x 1000 canvas. 

flattened that out. Put it in the top corner of a 2k by 2k canvas and laid out 3 more so that it was a 2 by 2 of the big patch. 

Used the clone stamp tool to get rid of the seams and then cropped the canvas down to the center 1000 x 1000...poof repeating pattern.

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## torstan

Okay, that's a handy little method. I might just have to walk myself through that. Looks like a very neat workflow to use. Don't think I can rep you again s soon, but I'll definitely try.

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## Tom_Cardin

Ok this might be final....let me know what ya'all think.

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## Ashenvale

Beautiful map!  I'm late to the thread, and being a lazy bastard, haven't read everything, so if you've already addressed this, just tell me to shut up.

I'm not in love with the periods after the numbers on the map itself.  Perhaps those would better fit in the key alone, not in the map rooms.

I'm also a tad confused by the capitalization in the key.  It's probably just me, but I'm not sure I understand why some words are capitalized while others are not.  Are they proper names?  If so, why are some descriptions proper names while others are not?  Because other viewers may be as obtuse as me, I'd be inclined to fall back on the usual title capitalization rules throughout your key (capitalizing all first words, nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, relative pronouns over four letters in length, and all other pronouns, but not conjunctions, prepositions, articles and the like).

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## töff

That elevation shading gives a whole new life to area #8. I flippin' love it.

This is a beautiful map and I rep thee!

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## Tom_Cardin

Ashenvale - The items in the key are capitalized or not to add some flavor and elicit some creativity by the reader. I wanted to make some places sound important and others more subdued or mundane. I just got creative with the names and wanted them to build upon the atmosphere of the dungeon for the dungeon master. Give him more fuel to breath life into the adventure...they are not meant to be an explicit description of each encounter in the rooms, just flavor and direction for the dungeon master to build upon. Glad you like the map.

toff - Thanks! Thank you for your suggestions and opinions! Helped me with the creative process a great deal.

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## töff

> the usual title capitalization rules throughout your key (capitalizing all first words, nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, relative pronouns over four letters in length, and all other pronouns, but not conjunctions, prepositions, articles and the like).


I've never been a fan of NOT capitalizing those small words in titles. I have been capitalizing all words in a title. I find it unambiguous and pleasing.

While I'm up on my bitchbox  :Twisted:  .... I'm not a great fan of the numbered areas with an associated key, either. Titles on the actual sites themselves is far easier to read; it is also, however, usually far more difficult to achieve. I ight have to number-0key Woadsbury as the labels pile on. I'ma try not to.

Back on topic ...

Hey Tom_Cardin, you should consider a DEPTH GAUGE now: just a little bar on the side, graded with the same shades you used in the map, and marked numerically for vertical distance. I mean, entering #8 (from #6), you come to a dropoff; how far down is it? At 10 feet to a square, I'm guessing no more than about 10 feet of drop ... but it might be 5, or 25 ... we don't know.

And yeh wow @ the cross hatching. I'ma steal that technique (if I can find a place to use it!)

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## Coyotemax

Another thought about the elevation - perhaps mark in the legend that each elevation level is a standard depth (5' or 10' or whatever) unless listed otherwise on the elevation itself? Then you could put in the same elevation marker but toss in a little 25' mark in with it for example.

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## töff

> put in the same elevation marker but toss in a little 25' mark in with it for example.


That's my plan for Woadsbury also: a graded elevation scale (which doesn't appear on the challenge entry, but earlier in the WIP), plus numeric elevation lines like the British Geological Survey.

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## RobA

> coyotemax - Thank you!
> 
> torstan - Thank you! Some shading in room 8 will definitely help and thanks for spotting my errant font in room 5 (nearly impossible to proof my own writing)
> 
> Here is the pattern I made for the crosshatching:


Here is another one from a way back - variety is always good  :Wink: 

P.S. Tom, can you please post your hatch pattern to the Mapping Resource forum, too?  This will make it easier to find....along with adding a tag.

Thanks,

-Rob A>

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## Tom_Cardin

toff - oh wow I didn't even think of having a key with a depth guage, that's a great idea. My thought is to have each shade represent a 5 foot depth, so that drop-off there would be 35 feet.

coyotemax - yup yup yup. What I said to toff. Good suggestion. Thanks.

RobA - Right O! I will put my quick description of how I made it in there as well. I hope there is an equivalent method in GIMP but I just don't know.

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## Tom_Cardin

Thanks all for your input and critique it was most helpful. Here is my final

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## Coyotemax

I like your shading/legend idea better than mine.  less clutter, and looks dangfine.

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## Steel General

Cool stuff!!  :Smile:

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## smyrin

Very nice work!  I like this style a lot!

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## Boric G

I'm a newbie, just starting to learn GIMP. Can anyone give me advice on how to get use the cross-hatch image in the same way the OP did, especially with the fade-in effect?

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## geamon

Download said hatching on page 3 to your GIMP patterns directory, create new layer, fill with pattern of hatching, set layer mode to multiply, add a layer mask to the layer in question and paint it and blur it appropriately until hatching is adequately applied. That's my quick explanation. 

P.S. Thanks for making that hatching Tom Cardin very much appreciated.

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## Aegeri

I would absolutely love an untagged (well un-numbered) version of this map. It's great!

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## DungeonMaster

Very Nice! Now all I have to do is throw some goblins and an ogre or two in there and I have an adventure!

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