# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  D&D style maps of actual dungeons, keeps, and castles?

## Bumberbog

I'm a big fan of Turgenev's old school D&D style maps.

I'm inspired to make some of my own, but as I look through some of my creations from Middle School, they strike me as preposterous.  There are, for example, no bathroom facilities.  Where did all those demon lords and goblins go to the bathroom?  Not to mention eat, get fresh water, etc.

So I would like to try my hand at making a slightly more sophisticated dungeon, one in which the floor plan makes sense.  You know, instead of opening this door and there's a room with two goblins in it, you get the part where the goblins slept, ate, stored their weapons, etc.  I think this would be cool.

But my imagination fails me.  

So does anybody know of maps like those old D&D style maps, but rendered of actual dugeons, keeps, and castles?  Anybody know where I can get some of those?  I think studying them would be very instructive, and the dungeons you could make as a result of this study much more believable.

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## Ascension

Fantasy demon lords don't poop...they just rip heads off.   :Smile:   The best resource that I came across for realistic floor plans was at the bookstore...so I bought a whole bunch of castle and medieval books.  Never found one for dungeons.

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## Sigurd

Lots of buildings can be like dungeons but the classic 'dungeon' in the adventure sense almost doesn't exist. Buildings are very very expensive in labour and materials. Tombs exist - usually intended to be fully occupied. Some royal residences serve as prisons for noble captives - Tower of London, see the imprisonment of Mary Queen of Scots. Some buried temples and ruins exist - barrows, perhaps the palace at Knossus. 

Most medieval prisons were small by rpg standards - often a room or two, maybe a set of pits. I suspect this was because they were expensive and perhaps unsightly. Work houses were bigger because they actually produced something.

Modern buildings - Schools not in use, Chernobyl - vacated town, and many modern prisons are far closer to 'dungeons' on the grand RPG scale of things. 


btw Here's a cool blog entry with lots of real images and evocative talk about themes etc...

http://thestygianport.blogspot.com/2...yrinth_21.html

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## Fransie

I remember playing a TSR dungeon a long time ago where a fair part of the story took place in the attic of a manor. The manor, including the attic, was nicely mapped, but they forgot to include some stairs or a ladder to actually reach that attic. Also, while there was a bathroom (or several) included, the bathtub measured 5x10 feet, and the (single) beds were even bigger...

To be honest, these were the least of the problems we had with that adventure (it went from hilarious to downright sad), and since then we have never played another ready-made dungeon again.

Edit: It was TSR #2509 "Night of the Vampire" for those interested.

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## sigurdbjohansson

try this one for some inspiration...

http://freak.minimanga.com/maps/UAFTUNNELMAP.jpg

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