# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Regional/World Mapping >  World of Thra (Dark Crystal): WIP

## Marc

I have been a fan of the Dark Crystal universe since I first saw the movie back in the 80s.
The conceptual artwork by Brian Froud inspired me more than a few times in the past for drawings and paintings. 
I have been tinkering with the idea to create a Worldmap of Thra since I started drawing maps a few weeks ago and I have finally taken the big leap  :Smile: 
I bought myself a nice new sheet of beige A2 hotpressed paper, cranked up the Dark Crystal OST and went on a new adventure.

First phase of sketching the layout. I tried to stay as close to existing maps as possible without giving up on my own style. Luckily...reference material is very rare and most of the layout and POI are found by reading lore and info.


Tinkering with mountain styles and inks. Im trying to stay as close as possible to the concept arts colours.


Inking the first elements (Mmmyes...I work outside in :-/ )




All in all its a fantastic project to work on and a nice learning curve  :Very Happy:

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## DrWho42

i love _dark crystal_. so far, i appreciate the detail on the mountain peaks!

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## Kisachik the Wanderer

Yes! Finally a new map from you. I'm unfamiliar with what this is based on, but I like hearing about things like A2 pieces of hot pressed paper, and seeing art supplies laying around.  :Very Happy:  Are you using a small set of fine line prismacolor markers as well?

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## Marc

> i love _dark crystal_. so far, i appreciate the detail on the mountain peaks!


Thanks Doc  :Smile: 




> Yes! Finally a new map from you. I'm unfamiliar with what this is based on, but I like hearing about things like A2 pieces of hot pressed paper, and seeing art supplies laying around.  Are you using a small set of fine line prismacolor markers as well?


Hi Kis, for reference here is a little info: http://www.darkcrystal.com/index.php

I am currently discovering the Faber Castell art suplies, not the cheapest around, but I love them nonetheless  :Razz: 

As for the prisma's I think you are refering to the red roll-up case on the mountain photo. That used to contain a set of Stabilo coloured fineliners and is now home for my Action (dollarstore equivallent here in the Netherlands) Fineliners I wanted to try since they where very cheap  :Very Happy: 
They're certainly not bad at all, but I still prefer my Faber Pitt Artist Pens (the Action and Stabilo pens tend to leave 'dots' on the paper when pulling of the tip).

Thanks again for the lovely comment and I might post a new progress photo later today  :Smile:

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## Marc

Made a slight error a few days ago by missing a letter in the map’s name...



And without the magic of digital ink I had to make a fresh start.
Took lesson from mistakes made, bought a new sheet of paper and made a fresh start.
The restart also allowed me to make some changes.

Here’s the result thusfar:

Comparison of the old and new map.


And a small piece of detail.

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## arsheesh

Just saw this over on Insta earlier this morning and it blew me away.  Can't wait to see more of this project.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Adfor

Killer work so far! Your line and color work is top notch.

Your persistence to keep going when you've made critical error is really commendable, I've had this happen to me a few times while working with pen and paper, and it can be really disheartening, so kudos to you for that!

I hope to see more of this in the future, cheers!

IR

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## Tiana

Yeah, that's why I don't work in ink! Eek! I always have typos. o_x I suppose it's not always bad to get a chance to make some changes, but boy is it scary to do traditional inking. The art is lovely so far.

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## Marc

> Just saw this over on Insta earlier this morning and it blew me away.  Can't wait to see more of this project.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Arsheesh


Thank you so much Iconic! And yes, I've been posting most of the progress photo's on Instagram, it's a bit easier  :Smile: 





> Killer work so far! Your line and color work is top notch.
> 
> Your persistence to keep going when you've made critical error is really commendable, I've had this happen to me a few times while working with pen and paper, and it can be really disheartening, so kudos to you for that!
> 
> I hope to see more of this in the future, cheers!
> 
> IR


Thank you for the kind comment Adfor! It was disheartening when it happened, but I did not want to throw in the towel that soon  :Smile: 




> Yeah, that's why I don't work in ink! Eek! I always have typos. o_x I suppose it's not always bad to get a chance to make some changes, but boy is it scary to do traditional inking. The art is lovely so far.


Thank you Tiana! I might try digital mapping in the future, but without some fundings to set things up, I'll stick to traditional and hope mistakes won't knock on the door to often  :Very Happy: 

Here are a few of the latest progress photo’s:

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## Redrobes

Anyone who does the lettering and border to this level of detail and precision before the map is even started is one who is very confident that the map is going to look mighty good. Look forward to seeing this progress. I envy people with this level of skill and confidence.

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## Adfor

If you don't mind me asking, what colored pencils are you using? I've been on the Prismacolor train for a very long time, and seeing your recent update has me curious.

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## Marc

> If you don't mind me asking, what colored pencils are you using? I've been on the Prismacolor train for a very long time, and seeing your recent update has me curious.


I am using Faber Castell’s Polychromos. After trying a few other brands over the last couple of years, from cheaper (Bruynzeel) to expensive (Caran d’Ache), I am really sattisfied with these. And a big plus for me is that I can buy each color seperately at my favorite shop.
For me ‘try before I buy’ is a rule of thumb when selecting/buying my pencils, liners and paints. Prismacolor is not availlable in a shop where I live so never tried those  :Smile:

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## Adfor

> I am using Faber Castell’s Polychromos. After trying a few other brands over the last couple of years, from cheaper (Bruynzeel) to expensive (Caran d’Ache), I am really sattisfied with these. And a big plus for me is that I can buy each color seperately at my favorite shop.
> For me ‘try before I buy’ is a rule of thumb when selecting/buying my pencils, liners and paints. Prismacolor is not availlable in a shop where I live so never tried those


I'll have to give them a try then, they look like they lay down very smoothly. I'm just starting to really expand my horizons on mediums, so I try to let my curiosity run free, thanks for the reply.  :Smile:

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## Marc

A few new WIP photo’s.

The last bit of the North-Western area was created on pure speculation and an ounce of artistic freedom.
There isn’t that much information about the area the Sifa clan lives in other than a tiny tiny corner on the Productionmap. It’s showing some yellow, indicating a ‘desertlike’ environment (I assume since it’s also used to indicate other desserts) and one scene in the series showing the Northern coast with some boats and low grasslike vegetation on the shore. 











I did not post this on my instagram but I want to share it here.
(Been having having the feeling of doing something ‘wrong’ by making this fanart map for a couple of days. I contacted the Hensoncomp. to ask if I needed permission but didn’t get any answers yet)
A photo of the whole WIP map thusfar:

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## Marc

Latest update and hopefully a better picture.
Added the Silver Sea and the Legend which will be used to explain certain areas:

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## Chashio

That is beautiful, Marc  :Smile:

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## Adfor

You're going to have a masterpiece here if you keep this up, extravagant skills!

Cheers!

IR

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## Redrobes

Very cool indeed. Not sure if you might have answered this already but with those coloured pencils, are you able to rub them out and are you able to add water too them to turn them into water colour paints ?

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## Bogie

Beautiful work!!

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## Marc

> That is beautiful, Marc


Thank you Chas!




> You're going to have a masterpiece here if you keep this up, extravagant skills!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> IR


Thank you, doing my best to keep it up  :Smile: 




> Very cool indeed. Not sure if you might have answered this already but with those coloured pencils, are you able to rub them out and are you able to add water too them to turn them into water colour paints ?


Thanks Red  :Smile:  I think you need the acquarel version of the pencils to work with water, I am pretty sure you can use a medium(terpentine, thinnner etc.) with any kind of pencils though.




> Beautiful work!!


Thank you kindly Bogie  :Smile:

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## arsheesh

I'm really loving this!  Can't wait to see the finished map.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## MistyBeee

'saw parts of this one on IG, but it's always better to have the full version, especially for this one. What an amazing work already ! Those colors...!!

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## Kellerica

If this ain't a CC map in the making, I don't know what is.

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## Marc

> I'm really loving this!  Can't wait to see the finished map.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Arsheesh


Thanks alot Arsheesh  :Smile: 




> 'saw parts of this one on IG, but it's always better to have the full version, especially for this one. What an amazing work already ! Those colors...!!


Thank you so much Beee  :Very Happy: 




> If this ain't a CC map in the making, I don't know what is.


Thanks for the boost in confidence, I hope it's not misplaced Kel!  :Very Happy:

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## AP.

This is beautiful work!! Absolutely love it. Have you been watching the new series on Netflix? I've only just seen the first episode then went back to watch the movie as couldn't remember it haha.

Can't wait to see the final piece!

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## Ilanthar

I'm joining the choir. This is splendid. The lineart is great and I'm very impressed by your coloring.

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## Marc

> This is beautiful work!! Absolutely love it. Have you been watching the new series on Netflix? I've only just seen the first episode then went back to watch the movie as couldn't remember it haha.
> 
> Can't wait to see the final piece!


Thanks for your kind comment AP  :Smile:  Yes I binged the whole show the day it came out and I loved it so much!





> I'm joining the choir. This is splendid. The lineart is great and I'm very impressed by your coloring.



Thank you so much Ilanthar!


Apologies for the late response everyone and also for being absent for a while.
I love working on this map very much, but the chance on making a booboo is kind of stressing me out while I am progressing. That is one of the reasons I decided to buy myself a smal Wacom Intuos and started on digitalising the map.
New respect for the other artists working digitally!
I’ll post a new update later today!

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## Marc

A bit later but here is the result of the digital version thusfar:



As far as results go...I'm about as far as day 3 on the handdrawn version, but I think this looks alot better  :Smile:

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## Marc

I completed my version of the Claw Mountains last week, but didn't post an update yet...
I should have, because while watching 'The Making of' episode for Age of Resistance a new version of the map appeared on screen.
It was only a split second but I could see clearly that my shape of the Claw Mountains was off.
So I started over (love digital mapping for that!)
Here's the latest update:



Still need to figure out the colour of the rivers (Lore mentions it appearing blackish) and smooth the transitions from the mountains to the surrounding areas.

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## Redrobes

Are you telling me this is your first digital map ? Damn there's a lot of artistic talent going on here.

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## Marc

> Are you telling me this is your first digital map ? Damn there's a lot of artistic talent going on here.


It is, Redrobes, thank you for the compliment!


Latest update: Added the vegetation of the Spriton Plains and roughly placed the frames for the POI's.

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## swiss

I have to say I like the hand-drawn one better. The digital one is coming along nicely so it's not a knock on that version. You're just really, really good at hand-drawing.

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## jshoer

I second that comment - for me, there is a lot more texture and character to the traditional media. I'd love to see that one finished!

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## Marc

> I have to say I like the hand-drawn one better. The digital one is coming along nicely so it's not a knock on that version. You're just really, really good at hand-drawing.





> I second that comment - for me, there is a lot more texture and character to the traditional media. I'd love to see that one finished!


Thank you very much for your feedback Swiss and Jshoer!
I agree with the both of you.

The process of digital drawing is very different then doing it with more traditional means and I prefer the traditional way of creating a map over digital when it comes to smaller sized maps not based on an existing Lore, but...

This map is so very complex and huge (I needed to do so many overhauls since I started) I am glad I can do it digitally and allow myself to experiment with different styles, layouts and colours without ruining what I allready completed.

Also, my biggest dissapointment when it comes to traditional maps is presenting it online. There is such a big loss in quality and colour when posting a picture I feel it is a letdown to the final product. That being said, I will reddraw the whole map again by hand once I finished the digital one (Will take some time and I'll probably do a few other maps in between  :Razz: )

To me, both traditional and digital are mere mediums to create a product and I will keep practising with both of them  :Smile:

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## Kellerica

While I agree that the traditional version you were working on was insanely beautiful, I'm actually one of those weirdos who prefers digital media over traditional. *hides under the table to escape the angry traditional artists*
I just love the kind of color work you can only produce digitally, where you fill large areas with smooth, undisturbed color surfaces, and are able to tweak the tones as much as you like relatively easily. 

Of course I will admit to being heavily biased as someone who has worked exclusively digital for all their adult life...  :Very Happy: 

So I am enjoying the digital version of this too. One thing that I think it could benefit from is heavier texturing, and lots of it (I'm a huge texture slut, mind you, so do take this with a grain of salt - I don't call a map done until it has at least 10 texture layers on it...). What software are you using, just out of curiosity?

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## arsheesh

Man this is looking really good so far.  I think this is a really fun idea for a project, and you are doing an admirable job with it.  Looking forward to the next stage of development.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Marc

> While I agree that the traditional version you were working on was insanely beautiful, I'm actually one of those weirdos who prefers digital media over traditional. *hides under the table to escape the angry traditional artists*
> I just love the kind of color work you can only produce digitally, where you fill large areas with smooth, undisturbed color surfaces, and are able to tweak the tones as much as you like relatively easily. 
> 
> Of course I will admit to being heavily biased as someone who has worked exclusively digital for all their adult life... 
> 
> So I am enjoying the digital version of this too. One thing that I think it could benefit from is heavier texturing, and lots of it (I'm a huge texture slut, mind you, so do take this with a grain of salt - I don't call a map done until it has at least 10 texture layers on it...). What software are you using, just out of curiosity?


Thank you for the compliment regarding the handdrawn map Kellerica  :Very Happy: 

I'm currently on 92 layers thusfar and working on the base of the map still...I am planning to apply more textures when I completed the whole map to give it that "traditional handdrawn feeling" but with my current rate that's probably a few weeks away  :Razz: 

I am working in GIMP which is still my go to software for about 12-ish years now (Made a few websites and other digital thingamadjingies but this is the first time I use it to draw maps).




> Man this is looking really good so far.  I think this is a really fun idea for a project, and you are doing an admirable job with it.  Looking forward to the next stage of development.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Arsheesh


Thank you so much Arsheesh, all these awsome feedbacks keep filling me with positive energy and joy to keep working on this big project!

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## jshoer

> While I agree that the traditional version you were working on was insanely beautiful, I'm actually one of those weirdos who prefers digital media over traditional. *hides under the table to escape the angry traditional artists*


No slight to the digital artists intended - I'm totally in awe of what many of you do here, especially because every time I try to go all-digital I end up with something that looks like a sloppy cartoon!

Marc, you're doing great work with that digital map. I just can't help but feel that I'm going to miss all the beautiful progress you made on the ink version.  :Smile:

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## Marc

> No slight to the digital artists intended - I'm totally in awe of what many of you do here, especially because every time I try to go all-digital I end up with something that looks like a sloppy cartoon!


I just looked at both your digital and traditional maps and neither of them look "sloppy" to me. 
If you refer to clear lines and bright colours as 'cartoonish' than I guess that is my style and I learned to embrase it with both hands and give it a big hug long ago. 
I admire alot of artists here (Misty Beee, Thomas Rey, Iconic, Josh Stolarz to name but a few) in the guild and on other media. I look at what they make but I know I would never be able to addapt to their style and still feel happy while mapping or illustrating while not doing my thing.
So if cartoonish is your style...embrace it!   :Smile: 




> Marc, you're doing great work with that digital map. I just can't help but feel that I'm going to miss all the beautiful progress you made on the ink version.


There will be other Pen & Ink maps  :Wink:  But thank you for the compliment!

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## Ilanthar

To be honest, I also have a preference for the traditional version at this point (it just looks soooo good, and now I'm wondering how it is without being digitalized).
That being said, the digital version is interesting and very nice too...

And you are talking about people who are crazy about maps, so why not doing both versions  :Wink: ?

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## Marc

> To be honest, I also have a preference for the traditional version at this point (it just looks soooo good, and now I'm wondering how it is without being digitalized).
> That being said, the digital version is interesting and very nice too...
> 
> And you are talking about people who are crazy about maps, so why not doing both versions ?


I'm sure I will do both versions....eventually  :Razz: 

When I look at the traditional version, here at home, it's all vibrant and all the colours look good....but when I look at the picture of the map it just feels bland in comparisson to the digital one  :Frown: 

Here's the traditional version:



And the latest update:

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## jshoer

I love what you did with the purples in colored pencil. The crystal and the title text look translucent and glowing - as they should! (Don't look into the beams for too long, though.) It looks like you got a pretty good scan/photo, too, so I don't think you have an issue with lighting. To punch it up, you might just apply more pressure for deeper saturation in the greens, browns, and tans.

You could also always manipulate the hand-colored photo in Gimp, to add saturation, modify hue, or even brush in more bright colors.

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## Ilanthar

Joseph is right, once scanned you can certainly use some filters in a software like Gimp to adjust the colors the way you like.

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## Marc

I'll take your advises with me for the next one guys, thank you so much!

But first I'll keep on working on this one...digitally  :Wink: 

Latest update:
Been working all over the map lately, adjusting, changing and adding.
Currently the title box has gotten my attention, it's not done but I really wanted to share it:

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## jshoer

Nice addition of Lore! I also really like the little Gelflings holding all the clan markers.

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## ThomasR

I love what you have here but I cannot shake the feeling that you had better lighting on the pencil piece... have you tried using different brushes for the rendering ?

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## Marc

> I love what you have here but I cannot shake the feeling that you had better lighting on the pencil piece... have you tried using different brushes for the rendering ?


This was my first digital map and I started with the basic big solid circle brush GIMP has in its arsenal.
I am still using it because I don’t want to do all the linework again in this stage but I know there are alot more interesting brushes out there  :Frown: 
Any advice on brushes and their particular use Thomas? (And where to get them)

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## ThomasR

For the Gimp, unfortunately I have no precise advice nor place to get them but you should search for Grunge Brush or watercolor brushes and use them at a lower opacity. Playing with color jitter or size and angle variation has good results too (to avoid similar shapes). Also, dunno if Gimp has those, but overlay layers and such give good results for texture when used with low opacity brushes. I hope this helps.

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## Marc

Thanks Thomas! Will step on the search wagon today and see what I can find  :Smile: 
Still alot of work on this map so I think I can put some new brushes to good work before the end!

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## ThomasR

Maybe a pencil brush with a setting like the Wet brush in Photoshop (bords humides in French) will get you the same effect as your hand drawn map because the ornaments on that piece really look awesome (if I were you I'd do a mixed version, scan and digital add-ons with traditional looking brushes but ones gotta do what ones gotta do  :Wink: ).

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## Marc

> Maybe a pencil brush with a setting like the Wet brush in Photoshop (bords humides in French) will get you the same effect as your hand drawn map because the ornaments on that piece really look awesome (if I were you I'd do a mixed version, scan and digital add-ons with traditional looking brushes but ones gotta do what ones gotta do ).


Your suggestion of the 'wetpalette' made me wonder and I went and took a closer look at the picture I took of the handdrawn map.
I never noticed it before due to my diplopia but now I actively examined the picture I saw that there is a slight 'oilpaintish' filter over the picture. I probably did that by accident while trying to enhance the lighting and colouring to get the picture closer to the original : /
It will probably also be the cause of it appearing to have better lighting then the digital version, something I clearly do not recognise when looking at the original here on my desk.

I will try and make some comparison pictures (handdrawn and current digital) without changing anything to the picture as soon as I got some time to do so.

On a side note...I went on a google tour and got myself about 40-50 new brushes to experiment with!

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