# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  The Road to Tiamis

## Mouse

This is my first attempt to complete a hand drawn map - pencil on paper style.

Not much can be seen right now, since I have a habit of starting at the top and working down the page, so the clouds are fairly well finished.

The central mountains are based on a photo I found online showing a place in the Dolomites - name not given, and the road in question is between Merrow and Tiamis, which are purely fictional places.



EDIT:  Sorry about the bleached out centre - the flash went off, and without it I couldn't hold the camera still enough!  LOL!

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## Matthew VE

Wow! I love it already! Those are some epic mountains! Awesome sky too!

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## Mouse

And heaven only knows how I'm going to shade them!  LOL!

Thanks Matthew - and so that you know I'm not actually exaggerating anything, here is the original I found  :Smile: 



Maybe someone in our multi-national community can tell me where this is, since if I ever have enough money to go on a holiday, I'd really like to go there.  Its just so surreal with all those fields going right up to the edge of the world like that.

EDIT:  From JPStod's UTube links (several comments below) I've managed to snatch the name from a very similar picture.  This, I think, is probably Geisler... or then again from ChickPea's _and_ Josiah VE's research its probably Val Gardena in the Tyrol  :Smile:

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## Straf

I think they might be in Europe somewhere Mouse, perhaps Italy, I'm thinking in the region of Val Gardena in the Tyrol.

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## Tonnichiwa

This looks interesting. I can't wait to see what you do with what you've learned...I'm sure it will be great!

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## Mouse

Hmmn... 

I have a feeling this is going to end up being more like a landscape - my principle painting theme in days of old.  But it will show where my imaginary road goes - and that at least is still a kind of map.

This is 30 year old (UK art school) style tonal drawing, but the reason I say I'm not very good at it is that you aren't supposed to actually draw any guide lines at all - just.... shade.  My old tutors - Garth especially - will be rolling their eyes in despair at me!

@ Straf - I was hoping someone would know the actual name of the place from the photo.  It appears many times over if you google "Dolomite Mountain range" images, but it was quite late after a testy day, and I didn't see any particular place name, other than "Dolomite".

@ Tonnichiwa - thanks for the encouragement  :Wink:   I think this is going to be about me re-learning how to shade things - particularly mountains.  I'm hoping to acquire a mountain drawing style all of my own that is somewhere between Johnathon Roberts and "Mouse landscape painting", so it won't actually be as complicated as the photograph.  I'm just trying to... 'get the mountain thing'  :Wink:

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## Voolf

Hey Mouse,
To get you an idea of how to shade with pencil, it is good to tilt it to diagonal position (so you use flat part of a grafite) and gently move up and down. It can't be done with sharp pen  :Razz: . Make a subtle layer of shade and the smudge it with your finger, it will make the lines dissapear.

I upload 2 of my old old drawings with pencil. They are not so great (and quality also bad, page behind bleeds through paper) but you will get the idea how shade looks with pencil.




Hope this will help in some way.

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## Mouse

Oh nice - the trees especially!

Thanks, Voolf  :Smile: 

I knew about the pencil thing.  Trouble is all I've got to my name right now is a 0.5 lead HB Pentel - one of those leaded pen type pencil things.  I've been so wrapped up in mapping these last few months that I've sadly neglected the state of my study area, and now have no idea where the chest I keep all my art stuff in is buried.  Maybe I should do a dungeon style map of this place with the chest as the hidden treasure?  LOL!

I will smudge things later if my hatching looks a bit too rough, but I am hoping to achieve the near impossible and stay faithful to my training - hatching without the smudging.

Next WIP may be a few hours away.  Neighbour deliberately slams his door at 5.30 am every morning because I once asked him to stop playing squash against my outside wall (its incredibly irritating after the first hour or so), so I have to snooze for a couple of hours once he's gone each time.

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## Mouse

Snoozing done, I nearly didn't wake up in time for the day proper to begin - its extremely dark outside at the moment - grismal in fact.

I didn't get much done and I've had to give up for today - its that dark.  I also had so much trouble trying to get a shot of the thing without any camera shake that I gave up and scanned the bit I was working on, which means this is only half the map.

I'm hoping that I'm sort of getting the shadow and light idea on more realistic looking mountains by ignoring the reference photo and making it up as I go along.  As a bonus I'm also hoping that the trees are looking ok.

(Also, I am beginning to hate them now - stonework is far faster to do than little scribbly trees!)



EDIT: And yes - that's real rust on the spiral of my sketch pad.  The first sketch in it is dated '92.  The age is probably why the paper isn't really that white any more, and also why I'm having such a problem taking photos in the semi darkness of a northern hemisphere dreary winter day.

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## ChickPea

Firstly, I'm so happy that you're actually doing this! It's looking great so far. Maybe a little more 'landscape' but, if you include labels and a compass, it's a map! I presume it's just going to be a pencil drawing, or will you colour it?

Also, I think Straf has the correct location. My google-fu also says the mountain resort of Val Gardena in the Tyrol.

Looking forward to your next update.  :Smile:

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## Mouse

Aw thanks ChickPea  :Smile: 

I started this with reservations about the low angle of the perspective, but after a while I realised the perspective wasn't an issue, since I was learning quite a lot (or re-learning it) about the way stone looks and how to shade it more intelligently than those mountains I did on the other thread.  Back there I hadn't shown any of the blocky structure of the slabs of stone, or drawn any crevasses.  There wasn't enough detail to make them look really rocky.

Thanks for checking up on the location - and sorry, Straf - just goes to show how ignorant I am about places not in Dorset that I didn't recognise what Straf was saying.

Definitely going for a holiday there one day!

I think I may need to draw my compass in perspective - pointing into the drawing because the perspective of the drawing is so flat.

EDIT:  Don't know if I'm going to colour it yet.

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## Greg

Really cool to see you doing this Mouse! I honestly have no clue why you always put your work down either, because I think this is looking pretty great already!  :Very Happy: 

I like the low perspective too and it's not something you often see.  :Smile: 

I'll do my best to keep track of your progress on this Mouse, mostly to see how it's progressing, but also to see if I can pick up any more useful tips (thanks already Voolf  :Smile: ).

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## Mouse

Thanks GLS  :Very Happy: 

I was once a very arrogant and opinionated young thing, who thought that because she was best at art in her entire school, she was naturally going to be the next Da Vinci, or Michelangelo.  I soon learned the error of my ways at Art College - where I was actually the worst in my year!  LOL!  I even failed to get into a degree course because I was just so dreadfully bad.  The only thing I did really well in was colour theory. 

However, having explained myself and how bad my drawing is by art college standards, I still see a value in this exercise, as it will undoubtedly help me to get my head around what to aim for when I have my next go at the job in GIMP.

It would be great if this little exercise were also to become a source of useful tips  :Smile:

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## Josiah VE

Wow! You're really good at drawing (waaay better than me). I can't wait to see more of this!! 





> Thanks Matthew - and so that you know I'm not actually exaggerating anything, here is the original I found 
> Maybe someone in our multi-national community can tell me where this is, since if I ever have enough money to go on a holiday, I'd really like to go there.  Its just so surreal with all those fields going right up to the edge of the world like that.


That was actually me that commented, it was logged into his account at the time and I didn't notice.  :Smile: 
I also did a google image search (it's actually really good!) and it also came up with Val Gardena.

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## ThomasR

That's a nice set of drawing skills indeed !

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## Straf

I used witchcraft. 


OK, Google image search, but it's witchcraft really.

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## Mouse

> Wow! You're really good at drawing (waaay better than me). I can't wait to see more of this!! 
> 
> That was actually me that commented, it was logged into his account at the time and I didn't notice. 
> I also did a google image search (it's actually really good!) and it also came up with Val Gardena.


LOL!  I'm totally out of my comfort zone as it is without you two playing switch the VE on me!  LOL!

Thanks Josiah  :Smile:   But I'm absolutely certain it will be at least a couple of months before I can draw proper map mountains the way you do them  :Wink: 




> That's a nice set of drawing skills indeed !


Thanks thomrey  :Very Happy: 




> I used witchcraft. 
> 
> OK, Google image search, but it's witchcraft really.


Oh Straf!  LOL!


Just in case you're wondering where the next update is - I can't see the drawing enough to be able to work on it in this gloom, or I might have had another update for you today.  I find that artificial light reflects too much off the graphite to be able to see the differences in tone in the darker areas of the drawing, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow and hope the sky isn't quite so overcast.

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## Mouse

Mouse fights back against the growing darkness... and a serious case of boredom and impatience!

I went and bought myself a daylight bulb from Asda.

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## Tonnichiwa

Awesome! I love it! Great job on this Mouse!

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## Josiah VE

......I'm speechless.... I am really stunned.
Just.... just... wow...

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## Voolf

Exellent drawing Mouse, i guess i did not have to give you any advices, you already know what you are doing  :Wink:  This image is worth a rep, i will just wait to see it's done.

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## kacey

Very nice! I love seeing all this hand drawn work on the forum lately. Don't take this the wrong way, you create excellent maps with cc3, but I think you can do a better job doing it by hand. I really hope you're able some day to get you're hands on a graphics tablet, I would send you one if I could. I think this is only the beginning of the calibre of work that were going to see from you.

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## ThomasR

It's coming along wonderfully !

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## jpstod

Take a Gander 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QAzmne85Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gegTMCqF-M0

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## Mouse

> Awesome! I love it! Great job on this Mouse!


Thanks Tonnichiwa  :Very Happy:  

I'm still trying to work out how to get myself into proper ISO mode to draw things like this from the sky looking down, and with just the right amount of detail, for a new set of mountains for CC3  :Wink: 




> ......I'm speechless.... I am really stunned.
> Just.... just... wow...


Aw thanks Josiah  :Very Happy: 




> Exellent drawing Mouse, i guess i did not have to give you any advices, you already know what you are doing  This image is worth a rep, i will just wait to see it's done.


Oh no not at all, Voolf.  Your techniques are every bit as valid.  We just have different styles.  What's more, I suspect your technique is probably more sensible where drawing mountains in GIMP or on a continental map is concerned, so don't you go away thinking you were wrong.  Far from it! I can't imagine using my own style for a proper ISO map, and will probably adopt your ideas when I get to that stage.  I draw like this because it is the way I was taught to draw at art school... though I admit I seemed to have spent most of my drawing hours depicting various nude models in the Life Drawing class for some unfathomable reason.




> Very nice! I love seeing all this hand drawn work on the forum lately. Don't take this the wrong way, you create excellent maps with cc3, but I think you can do a better job doing it by hand. I really hope you're able some day to get you're hands on a graphics tablet, I would send you one if I could. I think this is only the beginning of the calibre of work that were going to see from you.


Aw Kacey that is very sweet of you.  You have a kind and generous heart, but I really couldn't accept it.  My vestigial pride gets in the way!  LOL!

I have a feeling that now I know I can get a Wacom for £50 its only going to be 2-3 months before I have one  :Wink:  




> It's coming along wonderfully !


Thank you thomrey  :Very Happy: 




> Take a Gander 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QAzmne85Q
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gegTMCqF-M0


And these are superb contributions to the thread John Paul  :Very Happy:   Even more material to seek inspiration from in the future.

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## ChickPea

It's looking gorgeous, Mouse! I couldn't draw like this if my life depended on it!!  :Very Happy:

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## Mouse

Aw thanks ChickPea  :Very Happy: 

I just hope I can successfully translate the landscape perspective to ISO perspective one day!  LOL!

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## Straf

Wow Mouse! This is great work. It looks like a photograph has been put through one of those fancy image processing things that can make them look like drawings. A sort of A-Ha's-Take-On-Me-arised.

Your talents are truly enormouse!

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## Mouse

LOL!  Straf.  I take it the play on mouse words was intentional?

Thanks for the compliment  :Smile: 

I was feeling a bit groggy yesterday in the continued gloom, so didn't do any drawing in case I messed up what I'd already done - having no undo button is just the pits!

Today is brighter though, so I'm hoping to wake up enough to get another quarter of it done  :Wink:

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## Straf

The undo button has replaced the eraser, or Tippex.

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## Mouse

This paper is at least 24 years old and very yellow (even though my dirt cheap scanner rather conveniently bleaches out the age stain).  If I use the eraser too much I leave a whiter-than-white mark on the sheet, so I'm being very careful about the sketching, and I'm having to do the shading absolutely right first time.

If I'd thought about this properly before I began, I would have gone and bought myself a brand new sketch pad  :Wink:

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## Ilanthar

Gorgeous work, Mouse  :Smile: ! You are very talented with a pencil. I'm waiting eagerly for more  :Wink: .

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## Mouse

Aw thanks Ilanthar  :Very Happy: 

The weather went dark again almost as soon as I mentioned how it was so much brighter today ( I should have kept quiet, I know), so I'd best get that daylight bulb out and work a bit more this evening  :Wink:

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## Mouse

This is the bit more I did - starting to add the all important road.  I've yet to work out how to turn it around, and have erased the initial sketch line to make room for thought.



I'm reaching the limit of being able to scan the worked area in one on my A4 scanner, and the daylight has been too bad for photographs for the last couple of days, with no sign of improvement, so it may be another couple of days yet before I do another update.

C&C welcome  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

Really impressive ! The slight blur of the pencil work gives the whole piece an eerie feeling that I really dig  :Smile:

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## Mouse

Thanks thomrey  :Very Happy: 

The blur is actually unintentional, since I'm being careful to work from the left to the right to try and avoid it on this relatively small piece of paper (A3 - 420mm x 297mm).  I don't know where it's coming from.  It may be the knap of the paper, which is supposed to be fine quality cartridge paper.  It is, however, 24 years old (and showing it in terms of being decidedly cream coloured rather than white).  I suspect that since the sensation of drawing on it is more like drawing on sugar paper, the knap is raised a bit due to having absorbed atmospheric moisture over the years.

Glad you like it, though  :Smile: 

Maybe I should preserve the rest of the pad to be used on special occasions only, since there aren't enough years left in my life for me to age another sketch pad to maturity the way this one has been aged, before I get to the point where I'm probably going to be too old to both see clearly and keep control of a pencil properly!  LOL!

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## - JO -

A magnificent work on this one!

Not only the design, the realization are incredibly realistic, but the imagination is really at the rendezvous to create these mountains. I like the contrast between the "tortured" side of the mountains and the peaceful aspect of the countryside. The location of the village is so conducive to creating stories, that I hope you have already written those stories, and that we will be able to read them!

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## Mouse

Hey Jo  :Smile: 

Kind of you to drop by when you must be really busy with your Challenge entry - which is looking brilliant  :Smile: 

Thanks for the compliments  :Smile: 

There _may_ be a story in the map.  I haven't decided which way to go with it yet.

I've been trying to do more today but I've been a bit distracted, so I decided to do a colour experiment instead.



What do you think?  Should the finished article be colour, or black and white?

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## Warlin

Wow ! Splendid Mouse. With color for me. It will seem even more magical. Your mountains and precipice are epic. Keep an eye on your work.

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## Mouse

Thanks Warlin  :Smile: 

I'll tick your vote for colour then  :Wink:

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## Diamond

That is... staggeringly good.  So many talented newcomers all of a sudden!!

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## Falconius

Wow Mouse this is seriously excellent.  I actually like the transition from colour to pencil on the same page.  The work has a very high fantasy, fairy tale, quality about it and that transition into pencil shades also gives it a tinge of horror and bad things that await around the next bend.  If I had to choose one though... uh... um...

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## zhar2

Woot Woot!

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## ChickPea

Gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous! I love the colour!! 

I'm so happy you decided to do this.  :Very Happy:

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## Straf

This is promising to be another work of art! I didn't favour the addition of colour at first sight but it's growing on me, and it lends the whole picture a sort of mood or an atmosphere or something.

I hope there's a decent pub in that village because there'll be some thirsty rock climbers looking for a pint after a day on those crags!

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## damonjynx

Wow, really nice Mouse and...forbidding? The way you've drawn and shaded it, there is an expectant air about it, that something marvellous or horrific is going to occur.

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## snodsy

This is really beautiful nice setting

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## Mouse

Ok - I'm going to do this without any smileys, because the server just told me off for using 13 'images'  LOL!!!




> That is... staggeringly good.  So many talented newcomers all of a sudden!!


Aw thanks, Diamond (blush)




> Wow Mouse this is seriously excellent.  I actually like the transition from colour to pencil on the same page.  The work has a very high fantasy, fairy tale, quality about it and that transition into pencil shades also gives it a tinge of horror and bad things that await around the next bend.  If I had to choose one though... uh... um...


Thanks Falconius (smiley)  High fantasy eh?  I didn't set out to make it that way, but I suppose the colours I chose are a little on the surreal side (wink smiley)




> Woot Woot!


Thanks zhar2 (smiley)




> Gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous! I love the colour!! 
> 
> I'm so happy you decided to do this.


Aw ChickPea (blush)  I'm really enjoying the old school approach with this map, and I'm glad you suggested it (wink smiley)




> This is promising to be another work of art! I didn't favour the addition of colour at first sight but it's growing on me, and it lends the whole picture a sort of mood or an atmosphere or something.
> 
> I hope there's a decent pub in that village because there'll be some thirsty rock climbers looking for a pint after a day on those crags!


Thanks Straf (smiley)

I'll make sure they build one if they haven't already (wink smiley)




> Wow, really nice Mouse and...forbidding? The way you've drawn and shaded it, there is an expectant air about it, that something marvellous or horrific is going to occur.


Thanks damonjynx (smiley)

In storyland, there is always _something_ about to happen (raz)




> This is really beautiful nice setting


Thanks snodsy (smiley) 

I think this is a little place called Geisler in the Dolomites.  At least the image I mirrored to use as a reference near the beginning of this thread looks a heck of a lot like the one for Geisler I saw in the second of the two Dolomite videos that jpstod linked us to.  I'm going to go there one day.  The way the fields just go right up to the edge of the precipice is just completely surreal (wink smiley)

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## kacey

Wow Mouse! I really like the colour. Did you do the colour part by hand, or is it done digitally?

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## Mouse

> Wow Mouse! I really like the colour. Did you do the colour part by hand, or is it done digitally?


Thanks Kacey  :Smile: 

I opened the most recent scan file in GIMP and played around a bit with all the controls until I stumbled on colour mode .  I had to add another layer between the drawing and the colour mode layer to darken the pencil drawing by using divide mode and adding a whole layer of nothing but black.

There are probably hundreds of better ways of doing it, but that's just the way I accidentally arrived at, all by myself.

EDIT:  if you try this at home you have to place an entirely black filled layer immediately over your scanned in drawing and change the mode of the black layer to 'divide', then add a third layer above that one and change the mode of the third sheet to 'colour'.  You then draw on the topmost colour mode layer in colours that are very low saturation on the palette and which look very nearly black.  This is for GIMP.  Sorry, but I don't know the settings or the equivalent method in PS!

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## Bogie

This is spectacular Mouse!  And I always vote color.

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## Mouse

Aw thanks, Bogie  :Very Happy:   Glad you like it - and I've notched up a majority of votes for colour, so colour it is.

Now I just have to finish drawing it!  LOL!

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## Matthew VE

WOW!! I am just stunned! This is so amazing! I am so jealous of your artistic skill.  :Very Happy:  I really like the color, it really adds to it. Although the mountains in the back are a little (too?) colorful. 

Keep it up, I can't wait till this is done!

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## Mouse

Thanks Matthew  :Smile:  

No need to be jealous.  I've been drawing landscapes with paint on canvas for many, many years - possibly since before you were born (given that I know you are less than half my age).  I'm actually having a serious problem trying to reinterpret my landscape perspective to ISO perspective, which is going to give me no end of problems when I try to do this to a more conventional ISO map.  So you see, I may never be able to draw mountains like yours - but that doesn't mean I won't try  :Wink: 

The colours in the test I did may be a little off in places (quite iridescent in fact), but I'm hoping to spend a lot more time and do the colouring in a lot more detail with greater care when I do the final colouring job.

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## Tonnichiwa

It's beautiful Mouse! Such a great looking map. I knew you were better at art than you were letting on  :Razz:

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## arsheesh

Ooh, this is a very nice illustration.  I'm impressed Mouse!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## Mouse

> It's beautiful Mouse! Such a great looking map. I knew you were better at art than you were letting on


Aw Tonnichiwa, my teacher.  Thank you  :Very Happy: 




> Ooh, this is a very nice illustration.  I'm impressed Mouse!
> 
> Cheers,
> -Arsheesh


Colour me surprised and blushing!  Thank you Arsheesh.  That means a lot coming from you  :Very Happy:

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## AzurePlanet

Wow, you're doing a masterpiece here, Mouse!  :Cool: 
I definitely prefer the colorized choice, and I love that soft "mildness" the envelopes everything in this illustration.

P.S: Maybe I can't find the correct english word to express what I would say in my language, however I'm almost sure you've got the message.

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## Mouse

> Wow, you're doing a masterpiece here, Mouse! 
> I definitely prefer the colorized choice, and I love that soft "mildness" the envelopes everything in this illustration.
> 
> P.S: Maybe I can't find the correct english word to express what I would say in my language, however I'm almost sure you've got the message.


Oh thank you, AzurePlanet  :Very Happy: 

And yes I did get the message - thank you for the compliment  :Very Happy:

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## srt

Looks like it's coming along real nicely. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who takes a long time to fill a sketchbook  :Razz:  The trees look really nice, especially. That shading is great.

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## Mouse

Thank you srt  :Smile: 

I'm experiencing a bit of a drawing block at the moment (I'm probably scared I'm going to spoil it now that so many nice things have been said about it), so progress on the drawing itself is just a bit slow at the moment - never mind progressing through the pad itself!  LOL!

I have however done some fir trees in the middle foreground since the colour experiment, but I'm trying to get a lot more of it done before I upload another WIP, or after the success of the colour test it might look a bit dull and uninteresting!

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## Mouse

Drawing block is loosening its hold over me, so here is a very small update (considering the time that has elapsed).  

I have added my first forest of pine trees at the extreme left hand side, and worked a bit more on the foreground.  the sketchy tree outline is destined to become only the fringe of a tree, since the space inside it is where I intend to put the distances between the places on the map, in lieu of a proper scale.  Haven't decided yet what to do about the compass.

I would like to do all the text digitally once I've finished the drawing (because my own writing is rather too child-like and plain), but I'm having trouble understanding all the mask complications in GIMP/Krita, and may import the GIMP-coloured scan into CC3, where adding text is as simple as typing on a sheet with the right kind of effects - an outer glow (known as a stroke in PS)

The drawing has at least extended far enough down and across the page that I needed to do two scans and stich them together this time.  The join isn't perfect, but I don't think it detracts too badly from the image.

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## Voolf

Ditch the CC3 Mouse, what belong in your hand is a pen, not a mouse  :Razz:

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## Mouse

LOL!  But I like CC3!

Thanks for the compliment  :Smile:

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## Matthew VE

I have to say I sort of agree with Voolf.  :Very Happy: 

This is so incredible. Every time I look at it my jaw just drops (figuratively more than literally).
I think you should do a hand drawn map for the next Challenge or Lite Challenge. I think you would have a good chance of winning.  :Smile:

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## Mouse

Hey Matthew  :Smile: 

Thank you also for your compliment!

I may consider hand drawing an entry at some point in the future - if this one turns out ok when its finished  :Wink:

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## Straf

It's looking really good Mouse. The trees are fantastic  :Smile:  thomrey will throw you out of the gang  :Very Happy:

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## Mouse

Thank you Straf  :Smile: 

I shouldn't worry about the tree hating thing.  I'm sure I've not yet drawn enough to qualify for gang membership anyway, but it will come!

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## kacey

Looks better all the time! Can I suggest tho that if you're going to do the text digitally that you remove what's already there, and the arrow pointing down too. If you're worried about mucking up you're paper with an eraser you can use the healing brush, or clone tool in gimp easily, there's tons of tutorials on YouTube on how to do this just don't be surprised if many of them are on how to remove wrinkles, or blemishes from photos, but it's the same technique. Anyhow, it looks great, can't wait to see this when it's finished.

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## Mouse

Thanks Kacey  :Smile: 

And thanks for the suggestions about the text as well.  I think I will probably try to erase the existing, but with any luck I should be able to repair the shading without too much trouble.  The worst bit is going to be trying not to blur the detail of the drawing under my hand - being right handed  :Wink: 

I went out to try and get hold of some grease-proof paper to rest my hand on, and I couldn't find a single scrap of the stuff anywhere.  Must be Christmas again!

Happy Christmas  :Very Happy:

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## loottheroom

This is great Mouse! I'm very envious of anybody who can draw landscapes and things like that. Abstract lines I'm fine at, but once you get into having to make things look like real things I fall down  :Wink: 

Can't wait to see how this turns out!

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## Mouse

Thanks Loottheroom  :Smile: 

The irony here is that I'm starting with something I know how to do in order to work towards the more abstract lines of the kind of mountains most people hereabouts seem to be able to draw so beautifully on their maps  :Wink:

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## Mouse

Against my better judgement I'm up at 4 am, trying to stich a 3 part scan together.  

Beyond half way - a long way beyond it - I get the urge to just carry on till the end, but I had to stop myself to get some sleep.  More details to go in on the right hand side yet, but this is the whole of the drawing this time .

Was hoping to get it finished by Christmas, but its not going to happen that way.  This is probably the last update now for a couple more days.



Removing the labels has damaged the paper, but I'll put that down to experience.  Should be interesting trying to match the digital labels with the hand drawn style.

Anyone know any good fonts I could use?

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## Tonnichiwa

I gotta tell you Mouse, whenever I look at the title of this thread, before it really clicks as to what I am looking at, I keep thinking that the thread title is "Road to Tiramisu!"  :Razz: 

But seriously, what kind of font were you thinking about using with it? Something bold? something artsy/swirly? something other than comic sans serif? something electronic? something whimsical?

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## Mouse

LOL!  I must have had my 'chocolate head' on when I thought up the name!

Sorry if I'm making anyone feel hungry by way of autosuggestion! 

As for the font...

I'm not really sure (just to be annoying).  Part of me wants to go with whimsical, but part of me wants to go with artsy and swirly but not too difficult to read - especially since I haven't yet figured out how to do a PS style 'stroke' to lift the names out of the darker bits of the background.

I'm going to need something that is suitable to do the title, and maybe a related but more simple font to do the distance chart.  There will be four locations, and so a list of four distances to make in a sort of key thing.  I also need letters for the points of the compass, which I was thinking of drawing as a stylised crow.  Ever heard the phrase "as the crow flies", well I want to make a crow that's pointing north, and have a suitable font to add the "N" for north.

If you could be any help with that I'd be much obliged, but no hurry - since this is Christmas Eve and all  :Wink: 


EDIT:  And now I can't stop thinking of it as Tiramisu either!!!

----------


## - JO -

Fantastic drawing, Mouse !!!
I want to go there !

----------


## Mouse

Hey Jo  :Very Happy: 

Thanks... and you _can_ go there.

Well, sort of.  The middle and foreground mountains are based on a photograph of a little place in the Dolomites that I think is called Geisler, or at least it must be pretty close.  I spotted it in one of the two YouTube videos that JP linked to near the beginning of the thread.

So, lucky for you I based it on a real world place - and one that I think isn't as far for you to go as it would be for me!

All I have done is mirror the image and draw an alternative surround to those interestingly surreal formations.  If you don't believe me the photos are at the beginning of this thread  :Wink:

----------


## Tonnichiwa

Well, I would look at all of the fonts you have in your CC3+ program first to see if there are any in there that you like. If you can't find something then go to a website like Dafont or some other free font site. You can browse their stuff and download anything you like for free usually. But check with the site on licensing requirements. 

If you come up with something though then I may be able to help more than I can now.

----------


## Mouse

Thanks Tonnichiwa  :Smile: 

I'll have a look and see what I can come up with.

----------


## damonjynx

Looking good Mouse!

For the font thing, rather than using a stroke try using an outer glow, I've seen both and I think the glow looks better -depending on the look you're after of course.

----------


## Mouse

Thanks Damonjynx  :Smile: 

I haven't found the GIMP glow button yet, but I don't suppose its as simple as that, is it  :Neutral: 

EDIT: The colouring in a pencil sketch is pretty nice in GIMP, but adding a glow to the text is definitely a CC3 job.  The amount of trouble you have to go through to get anything like it in GIMP is just the pits, and then it isn't adjustable.  You're stuck with what you get unless you do it all over again each time you change your mind about the amount of glow you have.  I'm beginning to understand why non CC3 users seem to find doing text effects such a bind!

----------


## Straf

/me whispers "what is stroke/glow thingies?"

----------


## Mouse

Oh bless!

Here Straf - this is what a black CC3 glow effect looks like on white text (this is only a test plate I did 5 minutes ago to check that CC3 text was the way to go)



The bitmap in the background is the raw scan file, and the hard black and white of the text looks wrong with it in this example (its also clearly the wrong font for the job as well), but when I do the final version of the map I will increase the contrast of the graphite drawing and colour it in GIMP before I bring it into CC3 for the text to be added.

I've watched a couple of videos on how to do a glow of this kind in GIMP on YouTube and quite frankly its a lot of messing around - especially since all you have to do in CC3 is simply click a button to add the effect and its done and dusted  :Smile: 

This is going to be a 3 way hybrid map - Hand drawn in graphite, contrast adjusted and coloured in GIMP, and text added in CC3  :Smile: 

EDIT: I believe the PS users would call the black shading a 'stroke'.  I'm really not sure that its called anything in GIMP, because GIMP doesn't seem to know how to do this without 3 additional layers, a mask, and various degrees of Gaussian blur.  Added to that the GIMP 'glow' is not adjustable, so you have to do it all over again if you change your mind about the width and intensity of the glow.

----------


## Mouse

Ok.  This is NOT the finished article.  The drawing isn't finished, the colouring isn't done, the scan is imperfect, and the compass may need a bit more work (the border too), but while I had it 'on the bench' in CC3 (working on the text) I hit on a different look that I rather liked  :Smile:

----------


## Tonnichiwa

This is awesome mouse! It is darker than I thought it would be though. But I like it!

----------


## Mouse

Thanks Tonnichiwa  :Very Happy: 

Its dark because I wanted it to be dark in its b/w form.  I imported the raw scan into CC3, laid a sheet of Solid Black 30 over it, applied a linear burn blend mode to the Solid Black sheet, then added the text in white with a black glow effect.

All done in 3 sheets, including the Bitmap sheet with the scan on it.

Though its probably down to lack of experience with GIMP, I just couldn't get the text to work with a proper glow until I put it in CC3!

----------


## kacey

In PhotoShop an outer glow is an outer glow, and you can acheive it in several ways. If you double click a layer in the layer panel a box opens where you can add outer glow, inner glow, bevel, and emboss effects and so on, there are several options, but I won't name them all. I wasn't sure about gimp so I did a quick search, and there are plenty of YouTube videos on how to add a plug in to gimp to get PhotoShop like layer styles. A quick Google search should give you plenty of information on the subject, just type in how to get PhotoShop layer styles in gimp.

And by the way, the drawing looks fantastic, and I like the dark effect, but I would lighten the lights a tad if I were you. In PhotoShop you can use levels to adjust the brightness, and darkness of light, dark, and mid tones, it's also a good way to darken the lines on a scanned image. I'm not sure if gimp has a levels adjustment panel, but I'm sure if it doesn't theres probably a plug in for that too.

I also had some luck in gimp long ago by duplicating the text layer, and make the underneath copy white, or whatever colour you choose, and blur that layer, you might have to fiddle with how much blur, but the outside blurry edge goes out past the original text, and makes a glow, you can then adjust the opacity, and blend mode to you're liking giving you allot of control over how the glow looks, so long as the blurred text copy is underneath the original text it should just pop out from under the edges to give a glow effect. And by the way you talk about blend modes in c33 it sounds like there allot the same, I think in general across most graphics programmes the effects are the same, multiply in PhotoShop, and gimp, is the same effect as in Corel painter, so I imagine the blend modes from cc3 would be the same names in gimp.

Edit... Try to find the layer effects plugin on gimp.org
Edit #2 There's a little blurb about it here https://www.smashingmagazine.com/200...ace-photoshop/

----------


## Mouse

Thanks for all that Kacey  :Smile: 

I've never used PS and I'm not likely to (for financial reasons).  I don't know how to steer that software either, so adding PS attributes to GIMP would turn a horrible learning curve into a deadly one from my point of view.  

Besides, if CC3 can do the job to my satisfaction on a single sheet, I'll probably save myself some time by sticking with that for now.

I've decided to make 2 versions of this map - one black and white as above, and the other one colour, using GIMP to colour the scan for the colour version before loading it into the same CC3 map file to impose the text and border.

CC3 is pretty flexible as far as blend modes go, I may play with the highlights a bit, but I'm actually quite happy with the steely look of the one I've just done.  If I keep it that dark I'll probably tone down the text quite a bit in the finished map  :Wink:

----------


## Voolf

Awesome job Mouse.

----------


## kacey

It sounds like the newer version of cc3 is much better then the older version that I have. I've recently been thinking about upgrading, and playing around with it some more so I went over to the profantasy site the other day, and it looks like they have some promising new annuals that weren't there when I was using it. I've been seeing some really nice maps come out of it recently, some I didn't even know were made in cc3 until I saw the new styles on there site.

----------


## Mouse

> Awesome job Mouse.


Thanks Voolf  :Very Happy: 




> It sounds like the newer version of cc3 is much better then the older version that I have. I've recently been thinking about upgrading, and playing around with it some more so I went over to the profantasy site the other day, and it looks like they have some promising new annuals that weren't there when I was using it. I've been seeing some really nice maps come out of it recently, some I didn't even know were made in cc3 until I saw the new styles on there site.


The new version is CC3+, and its a lot faster and more robust than CC3.  I've never used CC3 myself, since I've been able to do all that I've wanted to do with CC3+

The recent annuals are all compatible with CC3+, though it is taking a little time for the older annuals to be converted.  If you want the best of both worlds you can do a home conversion job on the older annuals, although these will all be converted in time.


In my mind there's no such thing as a single ideal piece of mapping software.  They all have their plusses, and they all have their minuses (and with some packages that to me must include the sheer cost).  The trick of it all lies in collecting the tools that will help you to draw all the things that you see in your mind when you think a new map into being... and to constantly experiment in the hope of finding new, different and interesting ways of doing things  :Wink:

----------


## Straf

Mouse, the Layer Effects script adds a new menu under Script-fu called Layer Effects, which expands into a whole lot of different things including glows and stroke - only I don't really know what they do so I've never used them. I used the Bevel and Emboss tool once to make rivers look lower than the land, but that's about it. Anyway here's a page for it: http://registry.gimp.org/node/186

And that map is fantastic  :Very Happy:  Wheel ruts as well  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:

----------


## - JO -

Wow ! A true artist's job, really !!

one little thing about labels : are you gonna keep them white like this ? You did such a good job with the effects on the drawing, like aging. They look brand new, don't they ?

Anyway, it's a really beautiful piece you draw there !

Thanks for sharing it !

----------


## Mouse

> Mouse, the Layer Effects script adds a new menu under Script-fu called Layer Effects, which expands into a whole lot of different things including glows and stroke - only I don't really know what they do so I've never used them. I used the Bevel and Emboss tool once to make rivers look lower than the land, but that's about it. Anyway here's a page for it: http://registry.gimp.org/node/186
> 
> And that map is fantastic  Wheel ruts as well


Thanks Straf  :Smile: 

I had to read that twice.  I can't have slept very well because I thought you said 'wheel nuts', and I was trying to work out where the heck I'd been fly tipping tiny car bits in my map!  LOL!

Thanks also for the link, because I might come back to GIMP with respect to effects one day (I never rule an option out), but right now I'm finding it a lot easier to use the freely adjustable and reusable sheet effects in CC3+  :Wink: 

For anyone interested in how to do this in CC3+ here is a screen shot of a drop shadow effect I'm playing around with instead of the aforementioned CC3+ glow effect:



Open the Sheets and Effects dialogue.  Add a drop shadow effect to the Text sheet using the ADD button, and adjust the numbers to suit - using the APPLY button to update the view in the background so you can see what your doing in real time.

The Drop Shadow Sheet effect does not allow you to change the colour of the 'glow' it produces, but IMHO it looks a bit more even than an actual glow effect when dealing with all the sharp inner angles of lettering.  If I wanted to use the drop shadow effect and change the colour I would just add an HSL Sheet Effect immediately after the Drop Shadow effect on the very same sheet.

So there you go - a fully adjustable one sheet solution to all the necessary text effects  :Smile: 




> Wow ! A true artist's job, really !!
> 
> one little thing about labels : are you gonna keep them white like this ? You did such a good job with the effects on the drawing, like aging. They look brand new, don't they ?
> 
> Anyway, it's a really beautiful piece you draw there !
> 
> Thanks for sharing it !


Thanks Jo  :Smile: 

I did the font white to start with because I thought I might have a bit of trouble making it stand out from the rather busy background in places, but I think what I will probably do is use an HSL Sheet effect to adjust them down a bit towards the brightest colour of the map.  Maybe another CC3 blend effect to pick it up directly from the underlying map - multiply, or soft light perhaps.

EDIT: As you can see from the screen shot above I've already started playing with the possibility of reducing the glare just a bit by adding an HSL Sheet effect just above the drop shadow effect.  The Brightness is currently set to -20, but I might take it a bit darker than that.  These are adjustments I will make closer to the moment when I'm 'polishing' the map ready for the Finished Maps forum  :Smile:

----------


## Mouse

Here is the finished drawing.

Now all I have to do is the two final versions - one done in a similar fashion to the last WIP (effects and text added in CC3+), and one coloured in GIMP and then finished in CC3+



In case anyone is wondering what happened to the paper across the scree slopes in the mid foreground - I put the pad on the floor to go and answer the door, and wheeled my chair over it when I got back to the room - hence the wheel mark tramline wound across the shading.

I wouldn't mind so much if it had been my Wacom delivery!

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## ChickPea

It's absolutely gorgeous, Mouse. Can't wait to see the finished version.  :Smile:

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## Mouse

Aw thanks ChickPea.  I'm so glad you like it - so far  :Smile: 

My only regret (apart from rolling the chair over it and scarring the paper with that horrible line) is that I forgot it was A3, and not a longer rectangle.  I kind of ran out of space on the composition side of things to the right hand side where the edge of the pad caught me slightly unawares, but hey - that's the way it goes with hand drawing things  :Smile:

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## kacey

Beautiful job Mouse, I'm envious of you're skills with a pencil. You could have that wheel mark fixed up in just a few minutes with the healing brush in gimp or PhotoShop, just do it before you're other edits, and colouring, would be like it was never there, tho it really isn't very noticeable.

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## DarkInfinity

Wow, that is amazing Mouse. Simply beautiful.

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## Mouse

> Beautiful job Mouse, I'm envious of you're skills with a pencil. You could have that wheel mark fixed up in just a few minutes with the healing brush in gimp or PhotoShop, just do it before you're other edits, and colouring, would be like it was never there, tho it really isn't very noticeable.


Thanks Kacey  :Smile: 

No need to be envious - I aim to be really quite amusing with my first few attempts in your area of forte - the tablet!  (that's when it arrives, of course!)

Thanks for the tip in healing that wound.  I could have cried when I saw what I'd done to it, but I had to darken that area regardless of the textural rubbing I knew I was going to make of it.  That's why it took me so long.  It doesn't actually look as bad as it is on the page.  Those wheels cut!  I think the first thing I will do if I ever buy an new workstation chair is check how sharp the wheels are - to save my carpet the wear and tear if nothing else.




> Wow, that is amazing Mouse. Simply beautiful.


Thanks, DarkInfinity  :Smile: 

Welcome to the weird and wonderful world of Mouse dreams!

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## J.Edward

This piece is so gorgeous Mouse  :Very Happy: 
I love it. This will be another splendid map. No doubt.
Are there other wonderful sketches and drawings that you are hiding from us?  :Surprised:

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## Mouse

Aw thanks J.Edward  :Blush:   :Smile: 

There are other drawings in this pad, but they are all about 24 years old and really bad compared with this one, and none of them are anything to do with maps.  Its very strange, but I think I have improved a lot with age even though I haven't sat down to do a pencil drawing in all that time.  I've always been a landscape painter - oil on canvas which is more about composition and colour than drawing.  

But... I haven't ruled out doing another hand drawn map one day, maybe for a challenge.  I don't know.  It depends if I feel able to draw something appropriate for the challenge  :Smile:

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## Mouse

This is the bit that I'm still learning - using GIMP to colour things.

My goodness.  Its really difficult to tame the colours down from blindingly luminous!  I take back all those times I've wittered on about other people's maps being a tad on the bright side here and there.  I'm having a hard time with it myself!  LOL!

Well... we have a sky - its a very bright sky, but its a sky  :Smile: 



I like "Overlay", and "Colour", but "Saturation" (which I used to dim down the excessively bright blue of the clear sky just a bit) washes out the paper texture.  I might find another way to do that bit.

EDIT: Incidentally - I've had Debussy's Clair de Lune going on and on in my head all day long, which might explain the rather gushy cloud forms  :Smile:

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## J.Edward

It looks good, though bright.
I don't use GIMP but I assume layer properties may be similar or same...
Thus you might try multiply, using a very light and slightly less saturated blue. There are a lot of thing you can do with that.
Sometimes i do several faint multiply layers to achieve some effects.

Evenso, the clouds look very full and atmospheric. Very nice.  :Smile:

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## Straf

One of the trees in the forest on the right hand side in the middle has a leaf drawn the wrong way round  :Razz: . Apart from that it's breathtaking, although I do agree with the colours being very bright. I don't know enough about layer blend modes - would adjusting the opacity work? Or overlaying a grey layer or something?

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## Mouse

Thanks again for the extra praise and the tips and tricks, John.  

I'm so new to GIMP that it was only this morning I discovered how to change the view to "single window" so that I didn't have all the dockers and toolbars floating all over the place and getting in the way. LOL!

I wish that I had tried this a few weeks ago.  There aren't many maps that require a storm front formation, but now I think about it I could have had a fair try at a floating island.  

Next time....   :Wink: 

EDIT:  Haha - ninjad by Straf!  LOL!

----------


## Mouse

> One of the trees in the forest on the right hand side in the middle has a leaf drawn the wrong way round . Apart from that it's breathtaking, although I do agree with the colours being very bright. I don't know enough about layer blend modes - would adjusting the opacity work? Or overlaying a grey layer or something?


Thanks Straf!  LOL!

I don't know how I'm going to play this from here.  I guess I'll try a bit of everything until I find something that works, but I really am going to stop telling people they've got their greens too green from here on in  :Wink:

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## Straf

I have used colourise to desaturate and things like that but you need to record your settings in case you add something to that layer. It would be nice if GIMP came with a version changelog for drawings, a workflow journal of sorts that logs your every step.

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## Mouse

I'm having a really hard time trying to work without CC3s Sheet effects.  I could have taken the saturation down in a matter of seconds with that, and reversed it later without any harm.

Never mind, eh.  I'm cracking open the cider at this end now, so anything serious or complicated will have to wait until tomorrow  :Smile: 

Happy New Year - one and all  :Smile:

----------


## damonjynx

This is looking sensational Mouse. I really like the colouring as is…

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## Mouse

Thanks damonjynx  :Smile: 

I might still see if I can take the sheer iciness of that sky down just a tiny bit.  I fell like I want to wear sunglasses when I look at it!  LOL!

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## Straf

How much cider did you have, if the glare from your drawing is bothering you?  :Razz:

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## Mouse

Hmmm... not _that_ much!  LOL!

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## kacey

Looks great Mouse, but I'm with you on the brightness, I've never had luck with the colour blend mode, for me it always makes the colours do this so I don't use it. I'm with J Edward, multiply all the way, for me it's the most useful, and sometimes overlay can make things a bit bright too, I find soft light more subtle, even using very thin layers with the normal blend mode can have a nice effect. But even with the over bright sky it still looks good, I don't know if it's possible to ruin this beautiful drawing.

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## Mouse

Thanks Kacey  :Smile: 

I have found overlay useful for adjusting the colour of the actual drawing, but as you and J.Edward suggest, multiply is probably the most useful of the blend modes, and I will probably be adding several more layers to get the effects right.

Thank you again for the tips that helped me to repair the damage to the drawing.  I think its worked a lot better than I expected.  I was even able to mostly repair the score lines where I initially put the text and down arrows, and where I did even more damage by trying to remove them  :Smile: 

Now that I've got my Wacom colouring this in has become a pleasure.  I didn't realise that we had all been trained from birth to draw with rocks in our hands (the trusty computer mouse)

@ Straf - I haven't found 'colourise' just yet, but I will have a play when I do  :Wink:

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## kacey

I'm glad it helped, I use the healing brush all the time, it really works wonders. 

It's nice to see you've finally got you're tablet, and are enjoying it. I can't wait to see what else you do with it, I think you'll be a force to be recond with.

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## Mouse

LOL!  Right now my 'Johnathon Roberts' mountains are more like a comedy act waiting to happen!  I just can't seem to get the down angles right.  It will be a while before I can draw them like you do  :Wink:

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## kacey

I thought the mountain chain you showed in that style earlier last month looked great, and as I recall so did every one else.

Have you tried it with the tablet yet?

And, I don't remember, but are you able to rotate the canvas in gimp? I find, rotating the canvas really helps. I use a surface pro, and draw right on it, sometimes I even turn the entire thing upside down to help get the angles, otherwise I would have a major kink in my arm.

I did like the way you did the down slope in you're example tho, I enjoy the wider bottom, I just happen to suck at doing it that way... And to tell you the truth I was a bit jealous of the job you did, I've been wishing that the mountains I'm currently working on looked more like yours, that you did with a mouse...I guess I'm not the only one who's overly critical of there own work.

----------


## Mouse

I've been colouring this map in most of the day, but I have to go out soon and won't be around much till tomorrow morning but I'll give it a go  :Wink: 

If you can rotate the canvas I wouldn't know.  All this is still so very new to me.  Straf had to tell me how to turn the pressure sensitivity on in GIMP.

_As general information for anyone else working in GIMP with a tablet - you have to go to Edit/Input devices, and set the tablet to 'screen' to tell GIMP that you are using a pressure sensitive tablet, or it won't play ball with anything other than just the basic functions._ - thanks Straf  :Wink: 

If you look closely at that mountainous attempt thread, you may notice that the slope angles turn with the ridge, rather than staying at the same angle all the way down it.  That's what I mean about trouble with the down slope.  I can't seem to get my head around drawing in ISO perspective.  Its all either landscape, or top-down!  LOL!

Anyway - Enjoy your New Year's Day dinner, and I'll catch up with you in the morning  :Smile:

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## ThomasR

This is stunning Mouse !

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## Tonnichiwa

What Thomrey said! This is such a gorgeous piece! And I'm glad you got your tablet in. I can't wait to see what you do with it!

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## Mouse

> This is stunning Mouse !


Thanks thomrey  :Very Happy: 




> What Thomrey said! This is such a gorgeous piece! And I'm glad you got your tablet in. I can't wait to see what you do with it!


Thanks Tonnichiwa - a bit different to the kind of thing I normally do, isn't it!  LOL!

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## Knighthood

Beautiful work, Mouse!

I liked watching the progression from start to finish, this has really helped with perspective. Great job!

----------


## Mouse

Thanks Knighthood  :Smile: 

I haven't finished this one yet, but its nice to know it helped someone  :Wink:

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## Mouse

Here are a few more WIPS.

I thought I'd collect them together for you until I reached a point where I needed some help.  The help I need is this - do you think the grass is too green?  Also, I'm thinking of recolouring the rock in the foreground as it doesn't look right in blue and brown.

There are only three layers right now.  The scanned pencil drawing, an initial colour layer set to overlay, and a second colour layer set to multiply - the one that darkens the colours to something close to real (I hope)  :Smile: 

C&C welcome  :Smile:

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## Matthew VE

WOW! I don't even know what to say. Its just absolutely stunning! I do believe this is my favorite map that has been posted recently.  :Smile:

----------


## kacey

This is where the colour blend mode may come in handy since you already have a deeper base, or even just as an experiment if you want to make the foreground rocks grey you could try picking a grey and just paint over the blue brown in colour mode. I know it goes against what I said earlier but sometimes if the values are already there then it should only change the colour. And just from my own experiments multiply is good for shadows, overlay, soft light, and screen are good for highlights, but be careful with screen it can make things glow.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think that's what the colour mode does, so if you use colour mode over white it's probably why it goes over bright, if you use it over something you already shaded and coloured it should hold on to you're original shaded values, and only change the colours... Hope that helps, if not then hey, at least you what not to do.

And by the way, it looks great just as it is.

----------


## Voolf

I would try to use something between second and third images green. Or leave pale green and deepen it here and there just a touch. Your call in the end, it looks outstanding already.

----------


## Mouse

> WOW! I don't even know what to say. Its just absolutely stunning! I do believe this is my favorite map that has been posted recently.


Thanks Matthew  :Smile: 




> This is where the colour blend mode may come in handy since you already have a deeper base, or even just as an experiment if you want to make the foreground rocks grey you could try picking a grey and just paint over the blue brown in colour mode. I know it goes against what I said earlier but sometimes if the values are already there then it should only change the colour. And just from my own experiments multiply is good for shadows, overlay, soft light, and screen are good for highlights, but be careful with screen it can make things glow.
> 
> Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think that's what the colour mode does, so if you use colour mode over white it's probably why it goes over bright, if you use it over something you already shaded and coloured it should hold on to you're original shaded values, and only change the colours... Hope that helps, if not then hey, at least you what not to do.
> 
> And by the way, it looks great just as it is.


Thanks Kacey  :Smile: 

I've been playing around with all the different blend modes, and I can see what you mean about the colour mode.  I don't know if these modes match up with PS, but there aren't as many here in GIMP as there are in CC3.  GIMP seems to be missing linear light, linear burn, linear dodge... and a fair few others as well, including one that is simply called 'phoenix'. 

I'm going to employ the age old trick of leaving it be for at least 24 hours.  You'd be surprised the way you can immediately see what's wrong with a picture in the very instant you look at it again with fresh eyes the next day, and now that I've figured out what all the GIMP modes actually do, I should be able to put it right and finish up sometime tomorrow  :Wink:  




> I would try to use something between second and third images green. Or leave pale green and deepen it here and there just a touch. Your call in the end, it looks outstanding already.


Thanks Voolf  :Smile: 

I really like the grass the way it is, but I may see it differently in the morning when I come back to it.  Maybe there isn't enough variation in shade and hue, particularly in the immediate foreground.  I'll bear your suggestion in mind, and we'll see what comes of my final adjustments  :Wink:

----------


## - JO -

It's a wonderful illustration! 
The composition is really great, the atmosphere that results is truly surprising.
With regard to the three choices: for me, it is the third that speaks to me the most ... 
A well marked green, as in Scotland or in Ireland. 
But in any case, it's really a true artist's job!

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## Ilanthar

I would vote for the second one, but with the paler green on all the elevated flat lands.
And, it's looking truly fantastic, Mouse.... it's letting me dreamy  :Smile: .

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## Mouse

> It's a wonderful illustration! 
> The composition is really great, the atmosphere that results is truly surprising.
> With regard to the three choices: for me, it is the third that speaks to me the most ... 
> A well marked green, as in Scotland or in Ireland. 
> But in any case, it's really a true artist's job!


Thank you Jo  :Smile: 

I think that now you mention it the colour of the grass is more inspired by the rolling green hills of Dorset where I live, though its probably also combined with childhood memories of the clean iridescent quality of the light in the more northern reaches of Scotland - which, though completely unintentional, is oddly fitting for a map that only exists as a result of ChickPea's friendly suggestion  :Wink: 




> I would vote for the second one, but with the paler green on all the elevated flat lands.
> And, it's looking truly fantastic, Mouse.... it's letting me dreamy .


Aw thanks Ilanthar  :Smile: 

I can see that I might have to do 2 versions of this map in the end - one with darker grass up top, and one with paler grass up top, since not even I can seem to decide which one I prefer  :Wink:

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## Mouse

Ok I've finished this map and put it up in the Finished Maps forum here.

My apologies if this might seem a little rushed, but I feel I have achieved all that I am going to achieve with this particular piece.  

I couldn't have done it without all your help and advice.

Thank you  :Very Happy:

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## Chris Lewis

Beautiful work, Mouse. You have really learned to master GIMP in a short time frame. 

I love all of these renditions and the last one is my favorite because of the great contrast and vividness of the colors. Just beautiful work. I also like the first two iterations in the sense that they have that washed out Tolkien-esque look to them. They look straight out of the Hobbit cartoon books I used to read as a kid.

Thank you for sharing, my friend. You do such beautiful work. Looking forward to more!

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## Mouse

Thank you Chris  :Smile: 

The hardest bit was doing the tonal pencil drawing and getting the overall tonal differences across the drawing about right. Once the pencil drawing was done it was really only a matter of colouring it in GIMP and adding the text, compass and border in CC3+.

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