# Community Participation > Mapping Challenge Archive >  *** September-October Super Challenge: Mapping the Big Apple ***

## torstan

For the next two months we'll be doing something a little different.

The Cartographers' Guild, in partnership with the Soho Gallery for Digital Art, presents Mapping the Big Apple. The challenge is to create a map inspired by New York. From early drafts of the streets of New Amsterdam, to the grid layout of Manhattan when Central Park was first proposed to the iconic New Yorker cover from March 29th, 1976 - New York has always inspired cartographers and artists with its streets and avenues. And not just cartographers. Manhattan has been destroyed in more ways that any other city. From the monster of Cloverfield to the ice age of The Day After Tomorrow - New York has taken it all. Now it's your task to take this iconic skyline and represent it in your own way.

In this challenge you must create a map inspired by New York. It must be letter sized (11" by 8.5") or larger and a minimum of 150dpi. Beyond that, your imagination can be your guide. It can be anything from an ant colony in central park to an airship shipping lane map with a terminus on top of the Empire State. As long as New York is involved in some way, your map will be eligible.

The contest will run until the 31st of October, after which there will be a round of public voting. The top 45 maps will be included in an exhibition at the Soho Gallery for Digital Art that will run in Manhattan from the 16th of November until the 12th of December. As part of the exhibition, the gallery will sell prints of the maps to the public, with 70% of the price after print costs going to the artists. The top three entries will get pride of place at the center of the gallery.

All successful entrants will get a special badge as recognition of their work being in the show. The artists who have the top three maps will get a golden compass. There will be more prizes during the two months that will be announced as we go forward - so keep an eye on this forum for other opportunities!

In contrast to previous challenges, each artist may submit *up to three pieces*.

If you're new to the site, each challenge entry must have it's own thread in this forum.
• The thread title should start "September-October Challenge: <Your map name here>"
• More WIPs generally make for more votes - don't be shy about putting up early sketches
• Use the attachment manager to put up WIP images (the paperclip at the top of the advanced editing window).
• Put ### Latest WIP ### before every thumbnail so that the thumbnail scraper can put together a thumbs page for the challenge.

A few other notes about the contest:
• All entries must be submitted on the Cartographers' Guild before the 31st of October.
• Ranking of the entries will be by public vote on the Cartographers' Guild.
• Each artist can enter up to three pieces
• To enter a piece you must be willing to sign a contract with the gallery that certifies that you are the copyright owner for the map, or that you have the right to show it and sell copies.
• The gallery show is conditional upon more than 45 entries. If fewer than 45 maps are entered into the competition the show will be dependent upon agreement of the gallery - so encourage your friends to enter. Please feel free to post this around the internet at other art sites you frequent. The more the merrier.

Good luck and happy mapping!

Here are 2 banners that you can use to promote the challenge around the internet. They are CC-NC-SA licensed, so that you can resize them and modify them for best use.

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## mearrin69

Oh, yeah. I am SO doing this.  :Smile:  Nice idea!
M

Edit: This struck me the first time through but, after reading it again, I have to wonder if we can really get the 45+ entries needed to have 45 winning maps to display. I'll certainly try to do more than one and I'm sure others will too but schedules are tight and, man, that's a lot of maps  :Smile:  Will try to spread the word if I can.

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## torstan

I'm pretty confident We've got a lot of members, and this is a great opportunity to get people to pull out some lovely work.

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## mearrin69

Well, I for one am starting on map #1 tonight. I've always wanted to blow up New York (in fiction only, so calm down DHS) so that's what I'm gonna do.
M

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## Jaxilon

I'm going out of town this weekend but I am so going to be brainstorming on this. I may even pull out of the lite challenge for this because I would really like to get more than one map done and I want whatever I get done to be as good as I can make it. Very cool opportunity!

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## tilt

sounds like a cool challenge - pulling out the big guns .. gotta buy a bigger computer for this - any limits on size upwards?   :Wink:

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## geamon

You wanna buy me a new one while you're at it Tilt so I can handle mapping with anything above 4000 pixels?  :Very Happy:  Awesome challenge I wish i could participate.

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## RjBeals

wow. this is the real deal - very cool. I wish there were more hours in the day (damn that corporate america) - I may have to try this one out myself. I have family up in Northern Jersey, so I could possibly see a map of mine in a gallery !! Surely I can make the top 45 ?

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## mearrin69

Hmm. 8.5" x 11" at 150 dpi is 1,200 x 1,650 pixels. That's nowhere *near* 4,000 pixels. So. You're in! In fact, you *must* participate. You've been drafted. Didn't you hear the man? We need 45 gallery-quality maps ready in just a few weeks. Get mapping, bub.  :Smile:  

Just kidding....but you really should give it a go!
M

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## geamon

I was over exaggerating but ya I know what you mean. It's that I don't have enough RAM I know it's the cause. I may in fact dabble. But I don't have any ideas yet.

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## torstan

Yep, the lower pixel limit is relatively low on purpose to give everyone a fighting chance at this. In the previous show I was amazed at how lovely some of the smaller maps looked - and the printers actively prefer 150dpi for their printing on canvas or art paper.

As for upper iimits, there are none. The only question you might want to think about is print sizes if you're looking to sell prints through the show.

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## Juggernaut1981

Wow... this is an awesome looking show.

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## Coyotemax

I tried to rep, but I can't, still gotta spread more around.

I know that a lot of people put a lot of work into maintaining this site and keeping things going, both from a technical end and a front-end (moderators, admins, you name it).  I want to take a moment to thank the entire mod/admin crew in general, but ESPECIALLY Torstan - you've not only put work into the site and encouraged people, but you've taken it to the next level - the guild is no longer only a digital entity..  first a gallery show, and now we're looking at another??  

You really do rock this world!

I've been going through a rough time at home and at work, some of you know I have a physical injury situation that involves lots of pain and meds..  I'm back on fulltime work now, and things are settling into a routine.  I have to take care of a commission that's been waiting on the backburner, and once that's out of the way I'm gonna jump in with *something*.  How can i not??

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## mmmmmpig

This is a kick ass challenge.... bad ass indeed

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## tilt

> Hmm. 8.5" x 11" at 150 dpi is 1,200 x 1,650 pixels. That's nowhere *near* 4,000 pixels. So. You're in! In fact, you *must* participate. You've been drafted. Didn't you hear the man? We need 45 gallery-quality maps ready in just a few weeks. Get mapping, bub.  
> Just kidding....but you really should give it a go!


Yeah.. drop down and give me 20 ... maps *lol*




> I know that a lot of people put a lot of work into maintaining this site and keeping things going, both from a technical end and a front-end (moderators, admins, you name it). I want to take a moment to thank the entire mod/admin crew in general, but ESPECIALLY Torstan - you've not only put work into the site and encouraged people, but you've taken it to the next level - the guild is no longer only a digital entity.. first a gallery show, and now we're looking at another?? 
> 
> You really do rock this world!


Yes, thats some great work admins - and especially you Torstan for taking all that time out to work for the guild. 




> I've been going through a rough time at home and at work, some of you know I have a physical injury situation that involves lots of pain and meds.. I'm back on fulltime work now, and things are settling into a routine. I have to take care of a commission that's been waiting on the backburner, and once that's out of the way I'm gonna jump in with *something*. How can i not??


You gotta be in the challenge coyote - love your maps  :Smile:

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## Sapiento

Jon is once again presenting a great opportunity. Fantastic!

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## torstan

Great so see such a good response to this. The guild has so much amazing art on it and its a shame to see it confined to an internet forum. The digital art gallery is the perfect way to pull this out and give the wider public a chance to see the work that goes on here. It seems a ridiculously good match.

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## Ramah

I'd love to join in with this but commission commitments and my general lack of pace when it comes to mapping will almost certainly rule me out of it. Maybe if you get another chance for a contest like this one in the future you can run it behind the scenes as it were, a long-term contest that runs for longer, six months or so, while the other contests run as normal.

Still, whether I get to join in or not, you're really performing for the guild here, Torstan. Great stuff. And let me be the one to take you over 1k rep.  :Smile:

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## mearrin69

That's a good idea. Thanks for helping get mapping on the map! Now my entire neighborhood knows about my hobby (apparently they all take the local paper...lol)
M

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## Ascension

Heh heh, welcome to the 1k club, bro   :Smile:

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## Redrobes

Yeah, awesome challenge and what an awesome opportunity. Just got to be in the top 45... maybe I stand a chance now  :Wink:   I'd like to program my app but I will put that on hold for a while or at least send some hours into a map. Dunno what the 'eck ill do but count me in.

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## Diamond

Hmm... I really wanted to do a post-apocalyptic NY, but it looks like that front's already been nailed down.  What to do, what to do...

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## mearrin69

Ah. There's room for more P-A. C'mon. You know you want to. Hmmm...wonder if we're going to disturb the gallery-goers with all this destruction of their city?  :Smile: 
M

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## Gallifreyan

Okay, I think that this is a stupid question, but is 2400x3600 px at 100 ppi a good size? I am not exactly sure what dpi is, but doesn't it have to do with the printing resolution?

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## mearrin69

The minimum for entries is 8.5" x 11" at 150ppi. That works out to 1275 x 1650. If you're above that you're fine. Might as well set your ppi at 150, though, since that's what the contest specifies. That would make your map 16" x 24"...plenty of room to play. Or you could go smaller if you're having performance issues.
M

Edit: And, don't stress it too much. As long as you've got *more* than you need you can always go down on the output...can't go up though.

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## Diamond

> Ah. There's room for more P-A. C'mon. You know you want to. Hmmm...wonder if we're going to disturb the gallery-goers with all this destruction of their city? 
> M


Okay, you convinced me.   :Very Happy:

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## tilt

> I'd love to join in with this but commission commitments and my general lack of pace when it comes to mapping will almost certainly rule me out of it.


you gotta be in this Ramah so we can show them New York'rs what the guild is made off... just make a small map  :Smile:

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## ravells

A quick bit of help for everyone. You can download a complete map of New York as it is now using 'Open Street Map' in the following formats: pdf, svg, jpg, png and postscript. You need to be patient though as the server is forever 'busy' , but it can be done. I've done it for London but catching the server when it wasn't busy took ages. Downloading in a vector format is especially useful if you want to do an 'alternate  modern' new york theme, but all the heavy lifting will have been done for you in terms of mapping the city. All I would ask is that if anyone does download the data please can you post the file here for others to use as well.

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## tilt

> A quick bit of help for everyone. You can download a complete map of New York as it is now using 'Open Street Map' in the following formats: pdf, svg, jpg, png and postscript. You need to be patient though as the server is forever 'busy' , but it can be done. I've done it for London but catching the server when it wasn't busy took ages. Downloading in a vector format is especially useful if you want to do an 'alternate modern' new york theme, but all the heavy lifting will have been done for you in terms of mapping the city. All I would ask is that if anyone does download the data please can you post the file here for others to use as well.


)

eh... where?  :Smile:

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## ravells

Oops sorry, here! http://www.openstreetmap.org/

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## tilt

well- here's a slice (I have no idea what constitutes NY so I just centered on manhattan) unfortunatly it has names on it. Tried to fetch an svg version, but that didn't work when I downloaded it.

“© OpenStreetMap contributors, CC-BY-SA”.  http://www.openstreetmap.org

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## torstan

Good resource Ravells - thanks.

I've also updated the first post with some banners that can be used to publicise the show. You should see them appearing around the web in the coming days. This is a great opportunity to give the Guild some publicity - so post this around on other art sites you frequent.

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## mearrin69

Those banners are great. Snagged them for my site (which is beginning to get some decent traffic). I also "tweeted" (to my 0 followers on Twitter) and posted a discussion (on my little-visited Facebook page). LOL. I'm going to promote this a lot...to not many people!  :Smile: 
M

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## moutarde

Managed to get a good detailed pdf of lower manhattan out of openstreetmap.

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## tilt

nice pdf... to bad it isn't layered so one could turn off the names - that would be perfect  :Smile:

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## ravells

When I import the pdf into Serif Drawplus, it's all on one layer (pity) but you can identify the text objects.

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## tilt

here is a version with the text removed  :Smile:

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## ravells

Thanks Tilt, I'm sure it will come in handy for lots of folks!

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## Juggernaut1981

I'm seriously thinking that I need to put something up for this... I just have no idea what...
*confuzzled*

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## ravells

I'm really scratching my head too...

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## ravells

I've put up a thread on 'Cartotalk' with information about the competition.

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## Steel General

If I can ever get my commission map done, I may just try and do something for this.

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## raejekii

I'm definatly doing this. I've been needing something else to do for a while. Already have two ideas for it, and since I have nothing else to do, should be awesome

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

When they're all stitched up and finished, it would also be awesome if you could put all the maps together in an "Atlas of Parallel Earths: New York" book. I can't wait to see what people will come up with... and I only just noticed the part where it said we can enter up to three maps! I already have trouble focusing on one thing at a time, and now I'm considering doing two more...

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## torstan

You want to kill me don't you  :Smile:  I had a quick look into that - but the price of POD is prohibitive for glossy full colour books (>$100 a book for something nice). That leaves us with the challenge of finding a friendly publisher instead ...

@Ravells Thanks. I've done the CG on deviantArt, and the Artorder community site. I'll do a more general round of the internet after we're out of the quiet of Labor Day.

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## Jaxilon

I also want to state my thanks Torstan, for helping to put this all together. Once again you show yourself to be a huge promoter of the community and a genuine supporter of not just yourself but all of us. Thanks for pushing me out of my comfort zone with this and forcing me to get into the arena and swing!

I hope we come up with the 45 maps. I think we will. I have ideas for 3 already. Finding the detailed information I need is turning out to be a pain in the rear though. I may be spending an evening at the Library...hopefully what I want to use for my map is information that has been recorded somewhere but I'm not saying what it is yet  :Smile: 

I'm glad we have a little while to work on this but I'm also a bit jealous of those of us who have already posted WIPs and are on the move. I am still in the fact finding stage and trying to decide how I can best accomplish my goal. It makes me feel like I'm behind already  :Feeling sick:

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## tilt

I'll gladly look into printing prices should it come to that - have a few connections in that business  :Wink:   but I'd propose a "kickstarter" in the guild first so we know if we're funded  :Smile:  ... the dtp I'll do for free  :Smile:

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## Diamond

> I also want to state my thanks Torstan, for helping to put this all together. Once again you show yourself to be a huge promoter of the community and a genuine supporter of not just yourself but all of us. Thanks for pushing me out of my comfort zone with this and forcing me to get into the arena and swing!


Quoted for truth.




> I'm glad we have a little while to work on this but I'm also a bit jealous of those of us who have already posted WIPs and are on the move. I am still in the fact finding stage and trying to decide how I can best accomplish my goal. It makes me feel like I'm behind already


Tell me about it; I'm still puzzling out the style I want to do for my map; haven't even posted a WIP yet.  As for two more... man, I don't know.

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## torstan

Thanks guys - happy to help  :Smile: 

Just wanted to say that we got a mention in the Kobold Courier - the newsletter from the Ennie award winning Kobold Quarterly. They put it under the headline Big Mapple, which I rather liked  :Smile:  I didn't even ask them for that mention.

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## Djekspek

Thanks for setting up this great challenge! I will try my best to make time to put in one or more entries .... and I love your new avatar  :Very Happy:  cheers!

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## Juggernaut1981

Have you looked into things like the Lulu Online Publishing options?

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## torstan

Yep, Lulu's not cheap unless you can order a chunk at once. And then they all get sent to one place and would have to be distributed. That's something to be tackled in November realistically, but if there's a will to do this I guess we can find a means of creating something affordable. Tilt - I'll send you a pm and chat. I'd forgotten that this is more i your line of work.

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## Jaxilon

Lest anyone wishing to join the challenge is scared off by the various comments about staking a claim regarding what map they plan to make: You can create any type of map you want. It is no problem if you happen to map a similar idea as someone else as long as it is your own work. So, if you want to map Godzilla taking over then go ahead, we can have as many Godzilla maps as we can enter.

I only mention this because it seems like we have a lot of of us making preemptive posts about what we plan to do and I want to make sure anyone new to the sight isn't scared off by that. It's more of a fun thing to let others know what we plan to do and it kind of motivates us to get our gears moving. It is entirely OK if you had the same idea. It's not going to be the same anyway. 

I personally have not posted anything on what my thoughts are for a map but when I get around to doing it, I won't really care if someone else had the same idea. Mine will still be mine.

Happy mapping everyone!

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## Coyotemax

That's a good point Jax.  I realize one of my comments in one of the many threads may have come off that way, so i apologize to everyone in general if I left that impression.  

And yeah, with all the original ideas coming out, there's going to be a point where it'll be hard to do something totally unique in concept anyhow, so just do what you do to the best of your ability  :Smile:

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## Jaxilon

I don't think it's any problem for any of us who are here all the time because we've seen it before. I wasn't trying to point any fingers at you or anyone else so don't feel bad. I know I even posted a similar type of thing on the last lite challenge. I think it's just our way of sticking a flag in the ground to say what we plan to do. But then I got to thinking about the possible new people coming in to join us for this and wanted to make sure they understood what was what.

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## tilt

its a good point Jax - and we do allready have a lot of Post Apocalysm maps on the way ... but they are a bit more exiting than just mapping NY as it is *lol*

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## Jaxilon

I *was* kind of wanting to do a map of the State of New York but I expect after thinking about it some more that they really only want the City of New York, am I correct in this?

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## tilt

what I gather is that the CITY is the main focus - but you can do the state as well... Coyotemax is doing the whole state..

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## Hai-Etlik

Destroyed in more ways than any other city?  I've got to think Tokyo has New York beaten there.

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## torstan

Yep, you're right about Tokyo - there are more weird and wonderful creature to have taken that city apart than any other.

As for the focus - as long as New York City appears on the map you're fine - so a state map with New York labeled would be eligible.

And yes, just because one person has 'staked a claim' in no way precludes anyone else from doing the same thing.

I'd just like to note - front page of ArtOrder today! We got our very own post from the Wizards Art Director all to ourselves for this challenge so welcome to all Artorder readers that have found your way over here!

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## Jaxilon

Well I updated my avatar, it's a little hard to see due to smallish size but I think you can make out the Apple stuffed in his mouth  :Smile:

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## mearrin69

LOL. Great one.
M

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## tilt

nice jax .. and bon appetite  :Smile:

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## Gallifreyan

> Well I updated my avatar, it's a little hard to see due to smallish size but I think you can make out the Apple stuffed in his mouth


I didn't notice the apple until a few days ago. 

Your new avatar looks great Jaxilon! His new coat goes with your bars of rep and "Gracious Donor" title.

EDIT: And while we are on the topics of avatars, I updated my avatar this morning. I have been meaning to put an image of the TARDIS as my avatar for some cause it seemed to go more with my username, but I didn't get around to changing the image until now.

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## Jaxilon

Thanks all. I changed the coat so the apple would stand out better. Green just seemed appropriate. Now I just need to get on the ball with my entry.

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## Immolate

What's going on here?

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## torstan

Very nice  :Smile:

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## mearrin69

Heh. I'm loving the NYC avatars...never really altered my avatar for special events but I might start.
M

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## Diamond

I have bowed to peer pressure and changed my avatar.   :Very Happy:

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## Juggernaut1981

Woot the masses have won! Yay!

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## moutarde

Well, I though I might give the mustard bottle a torch, book and crown, but instead I decided that the Statue of Liberty really didn't need a torch anymore  :Wink:

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## Juggernaut1981

Awwwwesome.  I love it Moutarde.  I'd like a 14ft bronze hotdog for the Lady with the Pointy Crown...

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## Redrobes

Love it. You gotta get your Santa hats out at Xmas too. That one always makes me laugh - like Steel General with his Santa hat...

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## Steel General

Nice one Moutarde... If I get a chance to work on a NY map I'll have to update my Avatar pic as well.

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## tilt

nice diamond and moutarde - looking good  :Smile:

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

So we are fifteen days in and have eighteen maps started. We need... twenty seven more entries in about forty-five days? I wonder, are most participants planning to do more than one?

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## mearrin69

I'd love to do three but I'm wondering if I'm even going to have time to finish the one I've started.
M

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## Steel General

I have yet to start on one (not sure I will or not), but I'm gonna try.

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## Juggernaut1981

I was thinking of a second one.  Something very different.  I'm not sure what, I feel like the "Hidden NYC" has been done.  I might do a non-moderned NYC... or maybe just completely restructure NYC so that little is recognisable beyond the coastline.

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## Ramah

I really doubt I'm going to have the time to do one, even though I have semi-formed ideas for two. Like I said in my previous post, a contest like this would be better run over a longer period of time. Maybe future contests.

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## tilt

I have an idea for a second one, but first with my tradeshow and then with my toothache and now with my after tooth getting pulled ache I'm suddenly way behind in my real job... dammit  :Frown:

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

Darn, It would be a shame to miss this opportunity by falling short on the number of maps... I'll try my best to do the maximum (3). I think I need to focus on clearing my plate of my current comissions, then I can throw me weight behind map #2 and #3....

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## Ramah

But then, would you feel great having rushed two maps to get the quota up and having sub-standard work displayed? I'm not saying that if you did three maps any of them would be sub-standard but it would be a worry of mine. I'd hate to rush an entry knowing that it would get in the display and then lower the tone of the whole exhibition by having a steaming pile of rubbish displayed. :S

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## Diamond

> But then, would you feel great having rushed two maps to get the quota up and having sub-standard work displayed? I'm not saying that if you did three maps any of them would be sub-standard but it would be a worry of mine. I'd hate to rush an entry knowing that it would get in the display and then lower the tone of the whole exhibition by having a steaming pile of rubbish displayed. :S


Yeah, that's my worry too.  I think I'm just going to concentrate on doing the best job I can for my first entry, and if I run out of time for more, then so be it.  I agree that we should've run this over a longer period.

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## Ascension

I've got an idea just no motivation right now.  I'm turning the subway system into a dungeon map, woo.

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## Jaxilon

Whoa! I think I typed up a whole deal and it just poofed on me. I thought I posted it here but maybe it was in another thread (in which case I'm sorry for the ID-10-T error and thanks for deleting it). My back is killing me today and I may be a little off my game.

My question was how do you determine how you use reference material for something like this? Can you just copy in a street map and trace over it creating your own layer or do you draw each street by eye? I see a number of really cool looking maps with all the streets and I'm thinking I would go cross eyed if I did that all by eye. I believe it's the artist style for the map that makes it worth looking at and why these may be headed for SOHO but I was curious about this point.

I'm always worried about using something someone else did but really there isn't a lot of art to drawing street lines unless that's what you are after (the line work). The streets of NY are exactly where they are and the outline of the landmasses isn't going to change any time soon so how much  do we have to draw by hand for this to be legit? Obviously, if I traced this from google maps or something it's not like it would be perfect or that anyone could even challenge it but what's the thought on this?

/* Man I'm really worried I might have posted this in someone's thread. If so, just so I'm clear, the question isn't one that came up because of one person's map and as far as I can see all the maps  we have already are looking awesome. I hope to get my junk together and get a decent entry in as well but I keep changing my mind  :Smile:  */

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## tilt

I've posted a street map somewhere earlier in this thread that you can use, it from some open source thingy  :Smile:

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## torstan

As long as you're not copying and pasting other people's copyrighted work and claiming it as your own I'm sure it's fine. So Tilt's open source street plan is a great starting point. The question then is what you do with it.

As for the times - this was the first ever challenge to run over more than 1 month - so 2 months felt like a good length to use to feel it out. I certainly appreciate the feedback that people would prefer to have longer, and if we do this style of challenge again then we'll take that into account.

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

> I've got an idea just no motivation right now.  I'm turning the subway system into a dungeon map, woo.


I thought of doing something similar with either the subway or the sewer system: they are sort of the real-life Underdark of NYC.




> But then, would you feel great having rushed two maps to get the quota up and having sub-standard work displayed? I'm not saying that if you did three maps any of them would be sub-standard but it would be a worry of mine. I'd hate to rush an entry knowing that it would get in the display and then lower the tone of the whole exhibition by having a steaming pile of rubbish displayed. :S


Let's be honest, Ramah--compared to your amazing skillz, anything I make is going to comparatively look pretty rubbish.  :Smile: 

----

I have another slightly off-track idea: York, England was founded by the romans in 71 A.D., so what would have happened if their empire had never fallen and it had been they who colonized the west, centuries before Spain, England and France otherwise would have? I postulate a 'York Nova.' 

Rethinking the statue of liberty will be the most fun, and I somehow think Central Park will become the Colosseum Centricum.

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## tilt

sounds cool...  I'll think I'll make myself a used chariot shop then  :Wink:

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## Diamond

> I I have another slightly off-track idea: York, England was founded by the romans in 71 A.D., so what would have happened if their empire had never fallen and it had been they who colonized the west, centuries before Spain, England and France otherwise would have? I postulate a 'York Nova.' 
> 
> Rethinking the statue of liberty will be the most fun, and I somehow think Central Park will become the Colosseum Centricum.


Oooh, that's a good idea too.  Maybe for my second one I'll do the Spanish Imperial colony of Nueva Jork (after a successful invasion by the Armada of England...).   :Very Happy:

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## Jaxilon

Man, am I the only one who can't seem to really find something I'm happy with? For some reason I seem to be suffering from block on this. I get an idea, I mock it up, and then I think it's just crap. I've got several in my head but none of them make me really happy yet. I have one that I may just go with but man, it's like pulling teeth in that I have to force myself to inch forward. It is very unlike me because typically I get an idea and then I can't sleep I'm so sucked in. Maybe it's just that procrastination part of my brain that says, "Nah, you work best under pressure so keep farting around until you have no hope and then you will really burn the oil and get it done"?  Whatever I feel bleh about it. I keep waiting for the lightning to strike but so far there aren't many clouds in the sky.

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## Redrobes

No I am struggling with this one too. Mapping a city is a difficult thing generally then this one is unfamiliar to me. All of the ideas I come up with would take a significant amount of time which to be honest I don't have. I really want to enter something special but I don't see it happening.

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## Ascension

I've got ideas but no time and little motivation.  I made up my mind long ago that I would not be sticking with the current street layout so that freed me up a lot.  The only thing that I'm dithering about is whether or not to use current geography.  I'm thinking of just taking an outline of the landmass, doing my thing, and slapping a title on it.  Lots of freedom that way.  Take Immolates zombies in Central Park thing...take out the streets, put in my own, and call it ogres in the park.  The freer you make it the easier it will go.

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## torstan

I'm going to do one that's based on a specific neighbourhood of New York rather than mapping the whole thing. Streetview is a wonderful thing for this so you can get an idea of what the city looks like at ground level. Now mapping Soho might not be a bad idea given the location of the gallery...

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## tilt

totally agree - although a bit easier if you've ever been to New York  :Smile:

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## jbgibson

Yeah, the sheer size and complexity of NYC keeps stunting my motivation.   But RecklessEnthusiasm's phrase "...Coloseum Centricum" makes me rethink: what if I just do some recognizable fragment of the whole?   A-Z and other publishers make a mint off of city atlases; maybe I can get away with an outline of the whole city's landforms with a locator box, and just "page 117" of detail.

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

Glad to provide inspiration. I'll probably keep mentioning any ideas I come up with here: if I don't get to them, others are welcome to steal some! 

I am hoping to do a map of just the Soho area as well. As soon as I figure out what I want to to with it, I'll have three ideas and I'll be rearing to go. Now, as I said, I just need to clear my plate of my commissions so I can really focus--I wish doing part-time graphic work prompted the same kind of speedy responses from contractors that professional graphic design contracts did!

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## tilt

Don't count on contractors being fast in any business - except when they are running from the bill  :Smile:

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## RjBeals

i'm doing one, just haven't posted yet. Still in the research development phase really.

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

> i'm doing one, just haven't posted yet. Still in the research development phase really.


After your amazing showing in the challenge, I really can't wait to see what you come up with!

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## Diamond

> After your amazing showing in the challenge, I really can't wait to see what you come up with!


I second that.

As for mine, I'm stuck.  I know where I want to go, but I can't figure out how to get there.

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## RjBeals

curious about maps for sale - will these maps actually be available for sale from the gallery? It appears so - but for how much? And did any maps from the last showing sell? I'm surely not in this for the money, but if I make a few bucks, it would be nice  :Smile:

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## RecklessEnthusiasm

I was going to ask about sales figures too, just for the sake of curiosity, but thought it might have not been mentioned intentionally. I was also wondering about how much foot traffic the gallery got for the first show, too.

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## torstan

We had lots of foot traffic for the first show but only a couple of sales. I have my own ideas why - the pricing was high ($90 for a letter page print, $125 for 11 by 17) and the maos themselves were not of places that peope had a personal connection to. So the question was - why would somebody buy this map to hang on their wall? This time round the prices will be a little lower - around $50-60 for letter, $80 for 11 by 17. These are not fixed now, but will be closer to the time. I have a list of prices from the printer which determines the cost of the raw print on which the profit to artist and gallery is added. This should be helped by the addition of local interest (maps of New York on sale in New York) and the fact that it will be in the holiday shopping season. However I'd definitely not jump on this as a reliable scheme for making a ton of cash - it's an opportunity to get your work in a gallery, and add a fun notch to your CV. I'll be working hard to see that the gallery publicises it well in New York and organise a launch party with wine to get people in and see if we can't sell a few prints.

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## RjBeals

I'll be in Jersey for the Thanksgiving and hope to make it to the gallery. It's just I only have a few days and tons of family stuff packed in. Thanks for the info torstan.

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## Juggernaut1981

> This time round the prices will be a little lower - around $50-60 for letter, $80 for 11 by 17. These are not fixed now, but will be closer to the time. I have a list of prices from the printer which determines the cost of the raw print on which the profit to artist and gallery is added. ... However I'd definitely not jump on this as a reliable scheme for making a ton of cash - it's an opportunity to get your work in a gallery, and add a fun notch to your CV. I'll be working hard to see that the gallery publicises it well in New York and organise a launch party with wine to get people in and see if we can't sell a few prints.


For my part Torstan, consider any profits from my works to be automatic donations to CGs Ongoing Support Fund.
Just felt it was worth saying.

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## Jaxilon

Wow, we need to have 45 maps and we have not quite half of that right now. Do we need to promote this more or something? I know I have a couple ideas still, one of which I hope to get done. This has been a tough one for me though. Maybe it's because I'm a West coaster and never been overly enamored of NY. Nothing against it really but nothing really for it either. I have been there a couple times and actually spent about 3 weeks in Manhattan for work. The main thing I found there was too many people. The density was just ridiculous. I'm used to wide open spaces where I can swing my elbows and not knock someone's teeth out. So maybe my problem here is in the heart? I guess I don't have art if it's not in my heart. I'm still working on it though and if I can get a finger on my lightning rod I will get fired up and burn a ton of midnight oil. 

Still, though, we do need a lot more entries.

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## tilt

I had planned to do at least 2 maps, but with my work taking up a lot of time, I'm just hoping to finish the one. I've posted the competiion on facebook, but not many friends of mine maps..

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## RjBeals

you all could ask the admin over at ConquerClub.com to post a headline. There's a lot of beginner carto's over there - it's where I started as well. You may get a few more entries from it.

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## RjBeals

I was hoping we would have like 100 maps to choose from  :Smile:

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## Avengeil

That would be so nice to have 100 maps to pick from :Smile: ...

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## Immolate

More mapping, less ya.... err... more mapping!

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## torstan

Indeed  :Smile: 

Oh, and one for all you Post Apocalyptic fans today: http://gizmodo.com/5652348/new-yorks...l-storm-nicole

Aquatic New York...

I've been offline for the last couple of weeks on a visa run and it's been manic. I'll be around a lot more from now on (and I have a few NYC WIPs to add to the mix!)

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## mearrin69

Pretty cool story. I guess that's what happens when you build something underground...on an island...that used to be really marshy.  :Smile: 
M

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## Aval Penworth

Hey! Does anyone know how far under water Manhattan would be if the polar caps melted?   I had an idea for mappping the city if the seas were higher and the buildings became islands. Probably done before, but could make for an interesting picture.

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## Avengeil

> Hey! Does anyone know how far under water Manhattan would be if the polar caps melted?   I had an idea for mappping the city if the seas were higher and the buildings became islands. Probably done before, but could make for an interesting picture.


I remember reading somewhere over here a post of a site which calculates the rise in water level. I'll try to find and I'll post the link later in the evening cause I don't have enough time know.

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## Steel General

Here's one: http://flood.firetree.net/

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## Avengeil

> Here's one: http://flood.firetree.net/


Yep, that's the one I was talking about.

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## mearrin69

That's cool. Only 14m though? I want it deeper!  :Smile: 
M

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## waldronate

Fire up Wilbur, load the DEM of your choice, and use Texture>>Other Maps>>World Flood.

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## Aval Penworth

> Fire up Wilbur, load the DEM of your choice, and use Texture>>Other Maps>>World Flood.


Is there a Wilbur user out there who wants to take this on or collaborate?

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## Larb

Ok, I thought I'd enter, although I have only just now read about the contest. I have no idea what I'm going to do yet though but then there is still plenty of time!

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## Crayons

Don'tcha just hate it when someone's already done it!!!  :Crying or Very sad: 
A Google Earth map of New Amsterdam by the New Amsterdam History Center
http://www.newamsterdamhistorycenter...m/Exhibit.html
and follow the login instructions...
bah.
Anyway - I'm still enjoying doing my own POVRay version and I can release it under CC so... we'll see if it's any good, assuming I finish it.

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## tilt

30 entries, so 2 thirds of what is needed, and at least one wont finish, in my opinion we should postpone the challenge to the new year - Make a deadline in january and move the potential exibition to february (or what ever is possible).
Arguments:
- its is much better to postpone to get good entries instead of hurried entries
- NY maps won't be time critical - an exibition would work just as well later as now
- we will be more "serious" when we won't make a bad exhibit but actually want to be presented best possible. 
- we'll never hit 45 maps in 5 days
- by expanding the timelimit some people (like me) might do more than one map  :Smile: 

in addition to expanding the deadline, I think it would be prudent to run new challenges as well, so the NY challenge will be a "side-challenge".

what do you guys think? 
@Torstan - what will the gallery think?

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## Jaxilon

We have 12 days don't we? Not sure I can finish mine in 5 days. The rules did say if we didn't have the full number of maps the show would run at a later date. At this point I'm guessing it's doubtful that we will have 45 maps by the end of month.

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## tilt

its the 19th here - and the challenges usually end on the 25th (in theory) - so I rounded down I guess  :Wink:

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## torstan

This one runs to the 31st so, 12 days still. I'll chat to the gallery and see. The advantage of running it through the end of November and early December is the holiday season when the gallery will get good audiences and potential customers for prints, whereas the new year is notoriously quiet as people get back from holiday and are head down at work.

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## Jaxilon

So what exactly happens if we don't get the maps we need? I'm thinking if this thing gets bumped for a couple months I may just jump back to square one and do the map I really wanted to do all along.

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## tilt

> So what exactly happens if we don't get the maps we need?


that means we have to sacrifice a cartographer to the mapping gods to appease them  :Wink:

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## Diamond

Well obviously I'm not going to be able to finish my entry.  Sorry guys; it just wasn't happening.  A mapping disaster.   :Frown: 

But if my blood will appease the mapping gods, you can have a pint or so.   :Very Happy:

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## Jaxilon

I think I'm with Diamond in that I'm not going to get mine finished by the end of the day either. It's rather uncharacteristic of me though. I'm usually such a follow through kind of person. I was the kid that ALWAYS did his homework. As I have gotten older I have learned to let a few things go because they are just not that important thank goodness. As for this challenge I really wanted to do a map but was never truly satisfied with the ideas I had. Well, I had one that would have been awesome but I felt it was not focused enough on New York as specifically requested. So anyway, in the end it looks like I am going to have to take a fail on this, or at least a postponement. It feels like I let everyone down and I hate that. I had high hopes but the engine just never ran smoothly and that is just disappointing. :-/

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## moutarde

Does the challenge close tonight, or at the end of the day on the 31st?

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## tilt

I think we will go to the last minute of the 31st  :Smile:

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## moutarde

That's a relief  :Smile:

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## porkenbeans

I am new here, so not really sure if I am doing this correct or not. 
I was working on an idea about Sully the hero pilot, that landed that jet in the Hudson, It was turning out to be more difficult than I thought it would be, so yesterday I changed gears and put this together. It is a novelty "gag" item that might sell.    ...Well I can only hope.

edit- It seems that Photobucket has re-sized my image. It is blurry as a result. What to do ?

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## torstan

You can start a new thread in the forum here and add the file as an attachment. Have a look at the other threads to see how it's done. You can use the Go Advanced button and then hit the Paperclip to attach an image. Good luck in the competition!

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