# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  Hand-drawn WIP: Braid

## jshoer

I'm starting a quick little project: a village centered in and around a braided river. I'm doing this by hand with pens, and will color it in pencil.

On the actual piece, so far I have nothing but a border and a title!


...but I will also share my initial attempt to scratch this out, which should give some idea of the style I'm going for. (You can see that I already changed the name.)


The idea is to have some more cartoony representations of forests, buildings, bridges, etc all around and in the braided river bed, right near where the river flows out into a larger body of water. That sketch river bed is, I think, too symmetric, so I'll be paying close attention to aerial photos of braided rivers. (Some of the best references for what I want, so far, seem to be the Platte River in Nebraska.) I will probably also plop a small delta at the outflow.

Clearly, I am also studying how to draw cartoony buildings on pylons. I was trying to play with a very oblique angle and exaggerate the perspective, as well as doing some attempts to make the roof more bowed, but I think that was probably biting off more than I should have. The uppermost building seems like the best idea so far.

I'm also trying new forest styles; in particular, I am doing something that I think will allow me to differentiate deeper forests and jungles by adding under- and over-growth.

Finally, I promise to post more! Really!

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## Greg

I always seem to like your work jshoer! You always seem to try new things and experiment, which I want to do more (though to be fair I've only just started).  :Smile: 

I definitely agree with you about the nailing that perspective because looking at the moment, it seems a little varying which certainly gives it an interesting style (though as you say, this is just experimentation). It's good you've chosen a house you like to work from and I look forward to seeing this develop as with all your pieces!  :Smile:

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## jshoer

I do like experimenting! My feeling is that the more I can add to my repertoire, the more I can draw from later.

I think maybe perspective is going to be a challenge here. I'm thinking about whether I should add more perspective to the forest to fit better with the buildings, or tone down the perspective on the latter. I'm going to keep playing with ideas.

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## Greg

Yeah, keep it fluid for now and see where it takes you!  :Smile: 
Experimenting is always great fun and totally agree about adding to your skills and repertoire!

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## jshoer

Here's where my experiments are going now:
I've reworked the forest a little (especially the treetops, but also to make the contours of the canopy match up with where I placed the trunks).I have basically abandoned the idea of exaggerated perspective on buildings. That was just too much at once, and it didn't match up with the forest. Still working a bit on their style.I tried building up the river in a new way: instead of drawing a wide, meandering river and putting islands in it to create the braid, I took a pencil and interwove three or four meandering river courses, then filled in all the outlines with my pen. I like this much better. I may need to tweak some island shapes, but I think this comes pretty close to what I want. What do you think?I am playing with hatching to give depth to the braid islands. I tried three different styles on this river (bottom: small, quick hatching; center: regularly spaced, wide hatching; top: hatching on the far side of the islands). I think I like the middle one best...thoughts?

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## jshoer

Here is the final river form. The little rectangles are planks laid across as small bridges. Breaks in the line indicate where full-sized bridges will appear.

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## ChickPea

This is looking really cool! My initial thought after a half second glance was 'celtic knot' so you've definitely pulled off the 'braid' aspect. Looking forward to seeing you fill out the other areas.  :Smile:

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## Greg

Sorry jshoer I missed your update. I think you've definitely made a great choice with your river, making it unique, pretty and also living up to the title.  :Smile: 

I agree that that with the buildings it would be hard to make it fit in with a forest of that style, but hey that's what experimenting is for. Look forwards to seeing more of this! I also agree on the centre shading choice for the islands, though the bottom one with the quick strokes is also nice.

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## jshoer

Thanks for the comments - right now I am thinking of going with the usual isometric view of the buildings; that should be okay with the forest style.

ChickPea, I'm glad your thought went in the direction I was trying to suggest! How do you think the river looks realism-wise?

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## Greg

The one in your experiments looks more realistic at the moment, but that's in part because you've got the island shading and the final one has bridge gaps. I assume the river shape you were after in your final one is where an oxbow lake is starting to form. Either way, I think it finds itself inbetween realism and stylistic at a place where it happily balances both at the same time.  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Here's what we've got now: I'm roughing in where to put the buildings, roads, and dirt tracks. Roads will be textured in ink, and tracks will just be colored brown in pencil. Thinking a little bit about whether it's going to be too crowded, but I believe it's OK. Once I get all that stuff laid out, I will figure out where to put labels and then start inking.


On the scratch side of things, here are a few ideas for bridges, flagstone roads, and some playing around for the compass (which will go in the lower left of the map). I'm going off of ChickPea's idea of celtic knots - that wasn't actually what I originally thought of for the river, but that idea seems perfect! I should look at pictures of actual celtic knots instead of trying to invent something, though.

I am thinking of taking the bridges on the right - probably the arched one - and making sure that the posts look more vertical and isometric; then I will pair that with the isometric houses and the forest that I was looking at before.

I'm a little annoyed at this pad of paper. It's not my usual brand and I think the ink is bleeding too much.

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## Greg

Looking really good on both sides of things jshoer. Really loving that compass design and your bridges and pathways look like they'll fit in fine! That pencil sketch really does help start to visulaise Braid a lot better and I look forwards to seeing those details grow and your experiments with them!  :Smile: 

On a different note, as I'm sure you will do, I'd leave colouring in the dirt tracks until last just in case you decide they'd look better just in ink (since the rest of the map, at the moment anyway, doesn't have any coloured pencil).

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## ChickPea

I have to echo GLS that it's looking great. I like the first and third bridges. Either would look good, I think. And I'm thrilled you're expanding the celtic knot theme! The compass looks fantastic. Really interested to see where you go with this next.  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Don't worry, GLS, I will be coloring the whole thing. I picture a lot of browns and greens.

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## Greg

I thought as much, you seem to know exactly what you're doing, jshoer! I look forwards to seeing more updates!  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Well, that's good, because I want to post what I've done today in order to ask for some opinions!

First of all, here are some Celtic knot ideas.

On the right is the first doodle I tried - don't think I'll use that. The other four are designs I found on the Internet. I think I like the third one the best. I would love to hear suggestions for the design, if anybody knows some good ones out there I can look at.

Second thing: I'm done roughing in where I want the buildings. I blocked out their positions as 3D isometric shapes so I can see how they layer together. My current plan is to basically fill in those shapes, putting in peaked roofs at the time I do. Here's a photo with significantly punched-up contrast to make my pencil lines more apparent:

My question for the Guild is this: how should I label the buildings, if at all? I don't think I want to leave space for me to label by hand when I ink in the buildings, because it'll end up looking disproportionately like labels. Another option would be to put in numbers of letters and them have a key - but where do I put the key? The upper right is an obvious choice but I haven't really left myself all that much space, and I kind of want that forest to show through. 

Right now I'm kind of leaning toward labeling it digitally, where I can put glows around the text. That might be a little separated for the rest of the style of the map, but it leaves me the option to have it just be a top-down view of the town and river. I think I kind of like the idea of leaving it sparse in terms of text.

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## Greg

I quite like the first compass doodle you did in the somewhat sword shape as it mixes the definitive points and curves of a celtic knot to good effect. Out of your new ones, I agree that the third one along is the best. I don't really knows where you can look for designs, but I'm sure you can tweak a few designs together into a completely original one!  :Smile: 

On your second point, I definitely see your dilemma and agree a key would be the best solution to it, though there is no space. Are all the buildings of equal value? Perhaps the map could just label the key ones e.g. the smithy, the inn, the chieftain's hut, etc? That way the labels wouldn't dominate the map so much even if it didn't give full understanding of the map. It's up to you if you choose to label them digitally or not (personally I always like doing all the text and what not by hand and then only use digital to tweak and correct bits and pieces, but that's just me  :Wink:  ). Digital is always good though if you're not happy and then can change to a key or a couple of labels or whatnot, so it's got a lot of room for flexibility to suit your needs.

I hope this helps in some way or another and I am sure whatever you end up choosing it will look great!  :Smile:

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## jshoer

I decided to do the hand-drawn part without any labels in the town, and I will add the labels digitally later. I'm working in the buildings from the bottom up. Some not shaded yet, and I may add more hatching to the ones you see. I also intend to do some doors, windows, and other features on the buildings.

Compass is in place now, too. Considering options for a design in the middle. I'm going to put at least a big "N" in the font style you see for the word "Braid," maybe also the other letters but maybe not. I probably got carried away and made that compass too big.  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Buildings placed! Bridges done! Compass has an "N!"

I'm starting to detail the buildings, starting from the lower-right. You can see there how I think they will all look when finished. I am beginning to regret closing up the coastline, because now I would love to put a dock in! I may hold that thought.

Here are some sketches for cobblestone-y road textures. The preview image below is about actual size on my 1920x1280 monitor.



I intend this map to have a lot of hatching and small details. I'll be coloring the thing in softer browns and greens, I think.

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## Lingon

Lovely drawing, great attention to detail. The river has a bit too many islands and too even width everywhere to look natural to me though, I must say!

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## jshoer

Hey Lingon, thanks! 

I was trying to go for a braided river system like this http://www.geocoops.com/uploads/2/4/...66539_orig.jpg but I see what you mean; I could have gone for more variation in the river widths and island sizes.

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## Lingon

Yup, that's a really cool terrain type and not often depicted in maps, so that's a nice choice! But yes, some more variation would make it more interesting and realistic  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Hmm, maybe I can add some more small islands to get that variation. I will have to avoid going too small for the hatching.

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## Ilanthar

Nice work, I love the bridges! I would go for an intermediate paving to avoid a "too dark" feeling and still get details.

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## ChickPea

It's looking fantastic, jshoer. Bridges look great.  :Smile:

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## jshoer

I've got the buildings just about done! Now they all have hatching, doors, and are standing on pylons. I realized that I forgot to put chimneys on the buildings, so I added many behind the buildings you see.

I have also tried to address Lingon's comment about variation by adding some small islands in the northeast. Did it work? See any other places where I could do the same if it helps?

Coming next: those buildings probably need windows. The roads need paving. The trees will be soon. And I'm thinking of adding little texture marks to the river around the leading edges of the islands, like around the rock in the lake in Gallaston in this map.

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## arsheesh

Off to a great start jshoer.  Look forward to seeing the finished image.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## jshoer

Here is my latest! I paved most of the roads, added some more details to the buildings, and started in on the forests. The forest to the SE is done; the one in the NW is in progress. The town sure looks more crowded now, with the roads inked in - but I plan on coloring them gray, the buildings brown, and the surrounding turf green, so they should all stand out from each other.



I am going to finish blocking out all the tree shading and then outline the forest boundary; I will also try and match that up with the road cutting through. In that forest, you will see the trunks below the canopy as in my test back here.

So far, I'm pleased with where this is going!

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## ChickPea

Looking great! Trees are gorgeous.

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## Lingon

The smaller islands look nice, and the roads and trees are great! Will be interesting to see it with color  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Most of the line art is now done, and I think this is really coming together! There are lots of little details that have changed since the previous update, beside the major stuff like finishing the trees and roads. I'm quite happy with how the north road goes behind the densest part of the forest.



I started to add some little details in the town - boats, a well, and a pile of logs. I'm thinking that might not have been the best idea, because of the scale. But if it works, I could always add some more things here and there.

Also, I plan to do this around the border:


Comments welcome! After the border, whatever I decide to do in the middle of the compass, and whatever other details I add, I will start coloring.

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## Greg

I don't really have much to say jshoer. This project has come on so far and it has been a pleasure to watch it develop along the way!  :Smile: 

I'm trying to visualise that pattern around the edge and I think it would work well and be congrous with the rest of the map. It's a nice simple style to use and would make for a clear dark outline to the map.

Also, have you finished shading under the trees? I know it's much too easy to overdo these things, but I think in a few places a _very tiny_ bit of shading where there isn't currently would work.

Anyway, nice to see an update on this and good luck with whatever you choose to next!  :Smile:

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## jshoer

Thanks! 

That's a good thought about under the trees. Like you say, I'm wary of overdoing it!

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## Ilanthar

Very nice job! About the trees, they work very well, except for the trunks, that I would't have drawn at all.

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## jshoer

Thanks! What do you think I could do to make it look better? I think my study beforehand maybe came out closer to what I wanted...

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## jshoer

I need some advice. I drew in the borders and started hatching them in a way that's consistent with the light coming directly from the right side. On the left and right borders, this works quite nicely. However, I am not really happy with the top border. Before I do the bottom one, I want to ask what you all think of it and how I might improve it. I was thinking of maybe extending the hatch lines all the way across the rope to give it a more uniform texture and differentiate it from the background, or I could try and make the hatches on the top and bottom borders run vertically. Any suggestions?

I'm also looking for ideas to add punch to the compass, because right now I think the border out-embellished it and it definitely needs some more texture.



GLS, I tried putting a tiny bit of shading under the trees. I've also cleaned up some of the pencil construction lines that were still hanging around.

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## J.Edward

I think it looks consistent on the top.
It's one of the problems with doing shading - once you pick a light direction, the shading doesn't always look good in every situation.
It's just a part of shading. I've had this happen to me numerous times. Sometimes you just have to roll with it.
The map looks good though  :Smile: 

edit - oh, are you still wanting to get in on the Guild World?

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## FranCobasGC

Nice drawing, a good village to live in!

I think that it lose some realism with the bridges! some of them don't have sense, think that people will never construct bridges like this...
I send you the bridges that i think u need to change...
In my opinion there are two choices 
delete them if they only comunicate small portions
add more terrain in that bigger transition areas, with some small building of interest (a small tower, a fountain, a bench xd...)

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## jshoer

Hi FranCobas,

First of all, thank you very much for considering my map and providing feedback! I am happy to read ideas for improvement.

My original idea was to be somewhat whimsical with the bridge placement. I think I see what you mean, though - why build two bridges in series when one bridge would easily span the entire river a little further along the bank? (I'm assuming you meant to remove the bridges highlighted in brown and add ones in the places highlighted in blue.)

Deleting bridges is going to be difficult now that the ink is good and dry. But I can certainly add some points of interest on the smaller islands to make a reason to put bridges there.

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## Josiah VE

You've made some good points Fran, but as he said, he won't be able to change it now as it's not digital.

I was thinking one reason they have bridges across several islands instead of across one longer point; maybe they are very poor at building architecture and it's harder for them to build a bridge along a larger span of water. As for the smaller bridges leading to random small islands, I was thinking maybe they're just planks kids put there just for fun (I mean, who wouldn't want to live in a town like that and jump from island to island???). Or maybe the adults like to have some alone time on a not-so-isolated island.  :Wink:

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## jshoer

Well, now that my Guild World distraction is done, it's back to this map! I'm starting to color. I'm going for a muted palette which ought to have a lot of greens and browns when finished. One new element came in, as now you can see some footpaths that previously were indicated only in pencil.

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## Josiah VE

Very, very nice.

Border and everything is great.

Title is appropriate for that knot of a river.  :Wink:

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## ChickPea

It's looking fantastic, Joseph. I really like this a lot.  :Smile:

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## Elterio Delgard

Mmmmm.... Cartoony... I have to admit that it does give a warm atmosphere. I like it!

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## Ilanthar

Very nice and original. Great job on the bridges!

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## tilt

Looks really good, nice little houses and lovely trees - nice idea with the island/flakes of land  :Smile:

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## DerekMiller

Yep, well done, Joseph. Nice try.

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## jshoer

Thanks, everyone! Don't worry, even though the Lite Challenge is distracting me, I haven't forgotten this map. I did a bunch more coloring yesterday.

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## J.Edward

That is looking wonderful jshoer  :Smile: 
Looking forward to the next update.

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## Josiah VE

Looking forward to the update.

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## jshoer

Well, since you say so...


I actually kind of wish I had made some different choices on the shades of brown, but I'm hoping that after I paint it it will come out better. That's *usually* the case!

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## J.Edward

If you should find that once done, that you want the colors changed some - you can always make a selection in PS and use hue/saturation to change just the roof color.
I've done that before with a colored pencil drawn map.

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## jshoer

That's a good thing for me to keep in mind!

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## jshoer

So @CartoGuild prodded me about this today, and I dug into my files to see that - yes, I had an updated scan of "Braid" not yet posted to the Guild!



I think my plan had been to put labels on digitally, but this project has sat in a folder for some time and so I'm just glad to see that I finished coloring it.

Thanks to Chick, right?

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## XCali

Nice going! I like where you are going with this.  :Wink:  Your trees and houses are really nice. Well done.

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## ChickPea

Glad to see you working on this again, Joseph. It looks fantastic!  :Very Happy:

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## Chashio

Very nice!  :Smile:

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## FORGE

Awesome job on this map! I always love to see the little details in hand-drawn maps like this! It hearkens back to the times of old . . .  :Smile:

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