# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  Kobold Hall

## stuamn

Hi, after playing our first 4e adventure last week, it was clear to me that both me (DM) and the players need some practice.  None of us have played DnD since school - a long time ago, we think the edition was Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.

Therefore I decided to run the short adventure in the back of the Dungeon Masters Guide - Kobold Hall, and integrate it into the overall campaign.  I have been mucking about in GIMP trying to throw together the four main rooms so that we can use them this weekend (we use Gametable).  This is the first room.  It's not meant to be pretty  :Very Happy:  (I just noticed when uploading it that the bevel in the floor tiles is the wrong way round) but functional.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...artamn/kr1.jpg

Stuamn

p.s. I know i've added a little bit of corridor but i want the players just to concentrate on the room they are in and by adding the extra corridor means i can "join up" the rooms in gametable as the players get to them

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## torstan

That's a good start. Note that you can attach an image directly to a post rather than having to host the image on a 3rd party site. To do this make sure you are using the advanced editing window for posting (by clicking the reply button, or hitting the Go Advanced button from the quick reply window). Then click the paper-clip icon in the tools above the reply box. This opens up the attachment manager. There you can upload an image from your computer.

When you are back in the message editor, get the cursor to the place where you want to insert the image. Click the paper clip again and you will see the name of your image in a drop down. Click the name of the image you want to insert there and a thumbnail of the image will get included in the text. Any attachments you don't add in this way will be included at the bottom in a separate box.

As for the map, looks good so far. you are right about the bevel on the floor. How are you using the map in a game? Is it for use with a virtual tabletop program?

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## jfrazierjr

> Hi, after playing our first 4e adventure last week, it was clear to me that both me (DM) and the players need some practice.  None of us have played DnD since school - a long time ago, we think the edition was Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
> 
> Therefore I decided to run the short adventure in the back of the Dungeon Masters Guide - Kobold Hall, and integrate it into the overall campaign.  I have been mucking about in GIMP trying to throw together the four main rooms so that we can use them this weekend (we use Gametable).  This is the first room.  It's not meant to be pretty  (I just noticed when uploading it that the bevel in the floor tiles is the wrong way round) but functional.
> 
> http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...artamn/kr1.jpg
> 
> Stuamn
> 
> p.s. I know i've added a little bit of corridor but i want the players just to concentrate on the room they are in and by adding the extra corridor means i can "join up" the rooms in gametable as the players get to them


That's rather pretty stuamn.   You may want to consider over top of the floor adding a noise layer set to overlay to vary the floor up a bit, but that's not 100% necessary.

My only "complaint" is that I think the pit looks a bit odd.   To me, it looks like a huge emerald set into the floor instead of a pit full of slime.  Not sure if it is the color or texture or what.  Other than that, I think it's rather nice and I was going to do this myself.  If you don't mind, I will grab this (and any other one you do up) and use for my own game.

Joe

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## stuamn

@torstan , thanks - i was wondering how to attach an image.  The map is to be used in a program called Gametable http://gametable.galactanet.com/. The program is similar to OpenRPG in that it allows the players to connect remotely, see the map, roll dice and move their characters.

@jfrasierjr - thanks, I don't like the slime either but it was the only texture ii had at the time.  I need to find an ice texture for the last encounter so I'll probably look for a slime one at the same time (and re-bevel the floor).

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## jfrazierjr

> @torstan , thanks - i was wondering how to attach an image.  The map is to be used in a program called Gametable http://gametable.galactanet.com/. The program is similar to OpenRPG in that it allows the players to connect remotely, see the map, roll dice and move their characters.
> 
> @jfrasierjr - thanks, I don't like the slime either but it was the only texture ii had at the time.  I need to find an ice texture for the last encounter so I'll probably look for a slime one at the same time (and re-bevel the floor).


Cool.   

If your not 100% sold on Gametable, you might want to check out Maptool (RPTools.net), which is what Torstan and I (along with goobs of others here) both use.   It has a few features that are fairly unseen in most VTT software and it's free.   One big benefit is that Maptool is under active development, with a dev release with bug fixes and new features every 2-3 weeks (sometimes less) and the developers are very active on the forums.  
Heh... I would "guess" that RPMiller (who is a mod here and also active on the RPTools forums) has probably gotten 200 or more people to sign up at the CG from over there.   If you decide to give it a look over, we will be glad to answer any questions you have.  One big thing to note is that the 1.3 version is under development and close to switching over to 1.4, but the documentation is still most likely on the old 1.2 version.   This is important as there have been TONS of new features put into the Maptool since the documentation was last updated.


Also, just to show impartiality, Redrobes develops and sells a very nice VTT named Viewingdale which has some extremely cool features also.  He has a link to his site in his signature.  



Joe

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## torstan

Edit: no surpises that Joe said exactly the same thing but faster  :Smile: 

 :Smile:  You might like to have a look over at maptool - it's also a java app that works as a shared map for people with dice and chat built in.... and macros, and dynamic light and vision and quite a lot more. You can find it over here:

www.rptools.net

The forums are the best documentation. There's a new build out every week or so at the moment and the dev version is now very stable as they are approaching the end of the 1.3 cycle. There's a fair amount of cross-over between these forums and the maptool ones so you'll see some familiar names over there.

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## Sigurd

If you're not too attached to Game Table, *and* you've already looked at maptool (Its free after all) try looking at Fantasy Grounds....


http://forums.fantasygrounds.com/home/

It's not free but I like it a lot. After a little playing the one time $35 ish price tag is well deserved.


Sigurd

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## stuamn

@ torstan, jfrazierjr and sigurd - I'm downloading maptool to have a look. I just used gametable as a test.  I don't think the party would mind swapping from gametable as during the last adventure I published a very large tile and everyone else's computers rebooted.  They didn't see the funny side.

@ sigurd I agree, fantasy grounds looks fantastic, however - I'm assuming that everyone else would have to buy at least a lite licence to connect. Believe me the party I'm DMing for are cheap  :Wink: 

BTW new slime in kobold hall 1, and I posted a WIP of kobold hall 2, I don't particularly like the coffins, the statues or the altar but time is short.

EDIT: I also added a noise layer (render>clouds>plasma>desaturate) as suggested, and once again the maps are not 100% the same as the DMC, this is due to me moving/adding link up corridors

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## torstan

Now that's a serious improvement. Good work. I like the heavier shadows.

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## Steel General

Cool, I like it. You may want to consider one of the textures on this page for your current (or any upcoming) slime pools.

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## Hawke

Nice! If you're all done by next week chances are I'll be using this for my one shot group... Very cool.

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## jfrazierjr

> Cool, I like it. You may want to consider one of the textures on this page for your current (or any upcoming) slime pools.




That site rocks.   Some really nice textures.  I really like the Egg Veins one...

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## jfrazierjr

> @ torstan, jfrazierjr and sigurd - I'm downloading maptool to have a look. I just used gametable as a test.  I don't think the party would mind swapping from gametable as during the last adventure I published a very large tile and everyone else's computers rebooted.  They didn't see the funny side.


Yea, I like free also.  If you have any questions on Maptool, like I said earlier, feel free to ask over there or in this thread.   Also, be sure to check out the tutorials on http://rptoolstutorials.net, and you can get plenty of good ideas from there alone.   There is even a tutorial specifically for those who just play and not set up maps.   Again, one thing to remember is that these tutorials were made 6+ months ago (most of them) and there has been a huge amount of dev work and Maptools has changed quite a bit in that time.   New tutorials will be coming as soon as this version has locked down and dev starts on the 1.4 branch.




> EDIT: I also added a noise layer (render>clouds>plasma>desaturate) as suggested, and once again the maps are not 100% the same as the DMC, this is due to me moving/adding link up corridors


Much nicer.   The floor looks a lot more random now with the noise layer over top.

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## stuamn

@torstan - thanks, it was jfrazierjr who suggested the noise layer (its what added most of the shadows

@steel general  - thanks, I've bookmarked that site, one of the later rooms has a frozen pool.  That site has some excellent textures, a couple of which will be perfect for the pool.

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## stuamn

rooms three and four - these are all WIP and I may update them before the end of the week, it's just I have free time today, something that I will be lacking for the next few days.  The last room (behind a secret door on the left) I have 50% done.  

@ Hawke - I need to get them finished for a game on Saturday, so the latest I'll have them finished is Friday night.  I would rather get them out of the way before then  :Wink:

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## Midgardsormr

> I don't think the party would mind swapping from gametable as during the last adventure I published a very large tile and everyone else's computers rebooted.  They didn't see the funny side.


Wow.  That's quite a bug!  

A suggestion for your slime: reduce the saturation and brightness a bit--that should help it sit better in the image and not look quite so phosphorescent.  Unless you _want_ it to glow in the dark, which might also be a cool effect.

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## stuamn

@ Midgardsormr - you are correct about the slime, it was originally meant to glow (the XCF Gimp file still had some redundant hidden glow layers) however getting the glow to look right proved too difficult to pull off.  

If anyone knows of any tutorials on general lighting or glows i would be interested to read them. I have no problem getting objects to glow, its the effects the glow has on other objects, walls, stairs that gives me a headache.

@ Everyone that suggested Maptool.  Thanks! While this weekends game will be run in gametable, I think that after that the maps I'll have to make will cause problems if I use Gametable.  It's not a problem with memory, but a problem of logistics and it looks like maptools would solve that.

here are updated maps for kr1 and kr3, kr5 to follow

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## stuamn

Oh here is the last room (it connects to kr4 via a secret door).  I would have posted it with the last two but GIMP seems to randomly reverse the bevel in the floor during editing and I only just noticed while posting so a quick fix later...


stuamn

p.s.  I've said it before but - these maps are not 100% faithful to the ones in the DMG - I've added, shortened and otherwise moved some connecting corridors so i could use the maps in Gametable.

EDIT:  oops I forgot to include the rock for the trap in kr4

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## jfrazierjr

> Oh here is the last room (it connects to kr4 via a secret door).  I would have posted it with the last two but GIMP seems to randomly reverse the bevel in the floor during editing and I only just noticed while posting so a quick fix later...
> 
> 
> stuamn
> 
> p.s.  I've said it before but - these maps are not 100% faithful to the ones in the DMG - I've added, shortened and otherwise moved some connecting corridors so i could use the maps in Gametable.
> 
> EDIT:  oops I forgot to include the rock for the trap in kr4


Cool... would you mind either posting up your psd file or making a copy of this last room without the ice in it?  I plan to run my players though this in a week or two and have swapped out the white dragon for green.   Mainly, I needed a hook and since whites tend to be brutes, I switched to a green in this final room as a conniver.

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## stuamn

not a problem, it looks slightly different as some of the noise layers had holes cut in them for the pool, so i had to redo them.  The image is done in GIMP so it would be an XCF which the file manager doesn't allow (it's also 50MB due to some uneconomical practices, 33Mb Zipped).

 also... why the heck did i name them kr1, kr2, kr3 etc. where did the r come from??   :Wink:  surely it should have been kb1......



stuamn

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## Ascension

The slime pool looks a thousand percent better with the new duller greens and the floor is splendid also.  Still, the background looks kinda like brown fur but maybe it's just me.  It's cool looking don't get me wrong, and I'd like to maybe use the idea for something, I just think it's furry and not rocky but que sera, sera.

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## stuamn

@ ascension - hehehehehe  I see what you mean about the "brown fur".  The thing is i chose the texture as it was all i had at the time.  I produced a base image 20 sq x 20sq (on a 64px by 64px grid i think its 1280x1280) and just resized canvas for each room and then "cut out" the walls from the brown fur texture, it's not really brown fur but i like the description  :Wink:  , this revealed the floor underneath. I then just added an edge bevel and drop shadow (then other assorted details).  I may yet change it but i'm not finding anything i like enough.


stuamn (i use too many brackets)

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## Ascension

I do too (I think)...and too many of these lil thingies...  :Smile:

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## Hawke

Awesome... will be using these tomorrow in my one-shot!

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## torstan

They look great. Good job.

You can attach an xcf file if you zip it first (probably a good idea anyway given the file-size). You'll probably still need to drop the resolution to get it to fit under the upload limits. However I know that I would still be interested in seeing the root file for this.

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## jfrazierjr

> They look great. Good job.
> 
> You can attach an xcf file if you zip it first (probably a good idea anyway given the file-size). You'll probably still need to drop the resolution to get it to fit under the upload limits. However I know that I would still be interested in seeing the root file for this.


I second that 100%!

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## crazymike

I really want to thank you for these maps. I am using Kobold Hall to teach some new players how play and these maps will go over really well.

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## stuamn

been busy trying to throw together some kots maps (in Maptool with some GIMP).  I'll try to find somewhere to post the XCF file tomorrow (those i didn't delete)  I think i still have the base file and the second slime room.



stuamn

EDIT:  ok i uploaded them to 4shared.com, they seem very slow but free, a friend suggested them. 
files are: the base map, a 20x20 64px grid - no walls and slime room 2 (i think i called it kr3.jpg)

http://www.4shared.com/file/58057824...29c/kbase.html

and

http://www.4shared.com/file/58060427...b/kobold3.html

I can't guarantee the others will come as i have deleted them, these two were in a separate folder

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## stuamn

I don't want to edit the last post twice so


the files are 30Mb each

and i renamed most (all of the layers) 

because 1 layer called background, 14 layers called Newlayer#1.......14 and 6 layers called Pasted Layer#1......6, does not make for easy viewing.



stuamn

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## jfrazierjr

Thanks for all the work done on these.   You should consider entering this months challenge.   Also, please keep posting your files!

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## stuamn

thanks - been working on some maptool/GIMP maps of Keep on the Shadowfell

this is room 18 so far

as to the challenge - i might enter it later, it depends how time allows.

stuamn

p.s. i know that the floor is meant to have a giant Orcus head instead of the sword/hammers but i'm using a different demon

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## Torq

Great work in this thread Stuamn. Also nice to see a fellow Gimp user in action. I love the last map to for KoSF. Just a suggestion regarding shadows. I think you have used Gimp's drop shadow function. The only problem with this is that it tends to give the impression that the foreground items (walls and pillars in this case) are flat items floating above the surface rather than solid items rooted to it. As an alternative you may want to consider creating a duplicate of your black foreground layer and shifting it slightly and applying a gaussian blur. Then place the blurred layer below the foreground one. Another shadow effect that I really enjoy is to use the motion blur function. This, to my mind, looks the most realsitic for slightly diffuse shadows.

Keep up the great work.

Torq

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## torstan

Hey, that looks great. That's some serious gore going on there.

You can also change the shadow layer to multiply, it tends to belnd it in well with the background. Thanks for posting the .xcf files. I'll have a look at them.

Good work, and repped for sharing.

Edit: Will rep after giving a bit more out. Clearly not been around here for way too long...  :Smile:

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## stuamn

@ Torq and torstan - thanks, i've always had problems with "floating walls" and the shadows i'll try your suggestions out


stuamn

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## stuamn

hi been mucking around with your suggestions - i used the motion blur for the main shadows,it took a bit of getting used after so long just using drop shadows. i darkened the edges of the wall and applied a 5px Gaussian blur to a copy of the walls i painted black. I think next time i'll round the edges of the walls somehow.  I also added the painted stripes because..........i um kinda felt like it   :Wink: . i also put a brown colour layer over the top (set to 15% transparent and overlay)


stuamn

not 100% happy yet, but getting there

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## torstan

That's a lot better! It's often worth making sure the shadow is deepest right by the object casting it. I do this by hand, but I'm sure there must be a stroke or similar that would allow you to do this automatically.

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## stuamn

thanks torstan, i always like tips as i had never really used gimp before i came to this forum, it was really the necessity of making some maps for a D&D 4e campaign that brought me here.  I had thought about copying the shadow and offsetting it so that the shadow was darker near the wall (deleting any spill over) however the adding by hand suggestion is one i had never thought about, and since i use it to add the side shadow on stairs, i think i'll try both and see which one is easier and/or better



stuamn

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## Torq

I agree that your new shadow looks more realistic. Keep experimenting. I second Torstan's suggestions too. I cant wait to see what you come up with.

Torq

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## RobA

I posted this once, but can't find it, so I'll put it here again....



-Rob A>

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## Dalcane

Thank you verry much for posting this! This really helped my first time as a DM.  :Smile:

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## JustPlainEvil

Nice maps! I will be teaching some new players how to play and these maps will be really useful. Thanks for posting these!

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## Lomex

Just wanted to say thanks for posting the maps! Great work and they are really helping to get our group started on 4e. 

John

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