# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  [WIP] Kirkbride Insane Asylum 3d Level Design for Mystery Game in Blender.

## Robbie

I'm picking up where I left off in my WIP mapping thread since the 3d modeling has begun. Figured I'd post model work here and map work there. Here's an update to the modeling.  This is the work ward on the male side with windows and doors properly cut out/in.  It was another great learning experience, and I'm really picking up this blender thing.  Unfortunately, the quickest way i could discover to do the windows was to use a boolean operation, which means I'll have my work cut out for me when I work on the full wards and admin levels and such. Boolean requires quite a bit of clean up after the fact, but nothing I can't handle.



So, even though this is a small section and only used in one other place (the female side) it was a good test, which I'll probably keep.  I'll do an actual ward next since I have a process.  That part can be re-used 16 times (8 normal, 8 mirrored).

Edit: Bonus test image of work ward duplicated to three stories. This ward will only be on the ground story though...there will be another slightly different layout of this on 2 and 3 but it shows the scale of the ward with the windows and doors in.  No ceilings or floors yet.

----------


## Mouse

That's looking great Robbie  :Smile: 

I don't know anything about how game engines work at all.  What level of detail do you have to get down to with the 3D model - can a lot of the detail be created with the textures and normal maps, or does the model have to be complicated enough to show door handles etc?

----------


## Robbie

I'll be modeling a detailed door and window and lots of detailed furniture objects and props but they'll all be instanced and placed in the model in the game engine. Other than visualization purposes there's really no need to duplicate the door and window models in blender. Model once and reuse. I can use shaders in the game engine to make randomized wear and tear on instanced geometry. Pretty cool I think. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Mouse

The more you say, the more it fires my imagination, and the more eager I become to see the finished game  :Smile:

----------


## Robbie

Me too! The idea I think is going to be amazing if I can pull it off. Thanks for saying that! 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Redrobes

I dont know which game engine your targetting or in fact much specific knowledge about game engines but I wondered about something which may be relevant here. I did work on 3D video drivers for a while tho so it may be pertinent. In most video engine optimizations its possible to work out that some polygons cannot be visible quite quickly without having to go through the per pixel depth cull. So is it necessary to break up long walls into shorter sections ? I wondered this because if its possible that a bit of a large polygon may be visible then it does not get culled quickly and the whole thing may need to be rasterized and then each pixel tested for visibility in the shader. If you break up a long wall or a long ceiling into parts then maybe most room walls and ceilings get culled leaving only the ones which may possibily be visible. Is that something that may help ? I wonder this at this point in case it means that your model could be done differently. I dont know the answer to this and I suspect you would need to ask someone who has a lot of experience with them. But I guess you could test if the engine renders it faster to find out.

I do know quite a bit about boolen cleanup since I wrote an implementation of an algorithm to do that some time ago. Writing 3D boolean is a lot tougher than it appears in case anyone is wondering. Tough to the point of you just want to brain yourself on a hard surface come the end. Anyway... if you have a complex window recess that you want to boolean into the wall then its probably easier if you do the boolean once into a local bit of wall and clean all that up leaving you with a nice rectangular piece of wall around the window then use that as your boolean object for more windows. The nice clean bit of wall is a lot easier to clean up than complex bits of window frames. Also, the boolean algorithms work better when there is nice clean orthogonal bits of polygon to do intersection calculations with compared to shards of rounded polygon bits etc.

----------


## Robbie

Redrobes, turns out Blender's boolean is actually quite clean.  There's two solvers in the modifier, bmesh and carve...I got better results using carve, which only disrupted visible edges. I cut all the windows in one single operation and spent about ten minutes cleaning up errant vertices by snapping them to their most logical neighbor in the topology and running a remove duplicate vertices operation, which welds them cleanly.

Once I detach the exterior walls from the interior walls, I'll be doing some smart subdividing in order to get nice clean even spread of polygons to prevent long range culling issues, but I believe the engine handles culling pretty well...I'll definitely be discussing it with the Godot community for sure though.  Thanks for the breakdown!

I didn't get as much time to work tonight as I would have liked, but here's an updated.  I only really modeled one ward, but it was easy to duplicate it and get almost this whole end of the building.



And in order to see the character of the building start to take shape, here's a duplicated wing section up.



Once I add floors and ceilings, and of course the space between them, there'll be a bit more space between the levels vertically. Moving right along though!!!

----------


## Robbie

Just got a few minutes to throw in some floors and ceilings. Keep in mind, I'm doing this work on just one story and duplicating it before rendering these out. Before doing a proper topology consideration of the walls and all the cuts, one story of one ward is 704 faces.  Not too bad.  I'm shooting for about 1000 faces per ward for walls/ceilings/floors only.  Poly count will of course go up once decorations are considered.

----------


## Mouse

You have cavities in the floors and the walls.  Is that so the game engine can keep each room in its memory as a separate entity, or is it more to do with being authentic?

Its looking very impressive.  I can almost see the textures and the landscape around it  :Smile:

----------


## Robbie

From what I've seen, with global illumination, the floors and ceilings need to not be continuous. It creates unrealistic light leaks as the resolution of the baked illumination may vary from system to system. If each surface is non continuous then the light will terminate on the edges as well. I'm not 100 percent sure though, but I'm hoping I'm planning it correctly. It is more authentic that way and I get texture space for each room if I want it. I'm really liking the character of the building though as it's coming through. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Mouse

It has an unbelievable amount of character.  I've never seen an un-textured model with so much atmosphere  :Smile: 

Knowing what a wiz you are with all things digital, you've probably got it just right  :Wink:

----------


## Robbie

Awww thanks! I'm pretty amazed by how good it looks untextured too. It's probably a testament to kirkbrides vision. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Mouse

More a testament to your extreme patience, I think  :Razz: 

Maybe its because I've watched so many YouTube videos about Kirkbride hospitals, but I can almost see ghostly faces at those windows.  

I can't wait to see it with all the details added in as well - stone mullions and all  :Smile:

----------


## Robbie

I've got a long way to go before I get to stone mullions. But I'm very pleased with my progress this weekend. I'm hoping I'll still be able to throw some weeknights at it this week.

Here's where I got this evening.  I've created the primary stories of the entire male wing, including the exclusion ward at the end.  The character of this building is really starting to show now.

----------


## Mouse

The roof is going to be pretty difficult!  Is there any hint of how its supposed to go in the plans you have?

I think I remember you saying something about domes and spires - or I remember seeing domes and spires in the photo's I've looked at...

----------


## Robbie

Roof shouldn't be too difficult. The ward extensions have a 4th floor so it's pretty simplistic roof segments to implement. 

And yeah there's a dome with a main water storage tank in admin building and hot water tanks in spires in ward extensions. I won't have to do too much roof detailing because there probably won't be too many detail shots of the upper outside like that. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Robbie

I dunno what happened, but I suddenly found myself with a reasonable workflow on this thing and I'm enjoying working with Blender so much, that I just couldn't stop...next thing you know I almost have the whole building plan laid out!



I've mirrored the male side of the building to the female side...Keep in mind this is for visualization only...I'll only model one ward for the engine and it will get instanced there in the same way I've done here. I've begun the admin building.  Ground floor column plinths and portico porch basically done.  I'm going the Trenton State Hospital route for porch, leaving room underneath for carriages in the rain. I also still have to split up the landing on the second floor and cut out stairwells for the admin building.  That landing is going to be tricky, but I have a feel for how it should look now and you may be able to tell that the second story of the admin building is 16 feet instead of 12 like the second story of the wards. Third story of the admin building will be 14' Ceiling if I remember correctly.

SO MUCH FUN!!!

----------


## Mouse

Me-oh-my!  LOL!

At this rate it will be all finished, done and dusted by Christmas  :Smile:

----------


## DanielHasenbos

Just stopping by to say that this is amazing work Robbie! I have no knowledge about 3D tools, and everything that comes with it. But I enjoy following what you're doing here very much. Keep it up!

----------


## Robbie

Awesome. Glad you guys like it. Can't wait for the actual walk around to happen! 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Robbie

Not quite as much progress this evening, but I did manage to make the third story of the admin building and I also set up the fourth story, though I still don't know what it's floorplan will look like other than the chapel/auditorium extension in the back.  I may gut it and just make it an "attic" space until I find otherwise information. I know there needs to be floor space for the 20,000 gallon water tank that extends up into the dome. If anyone wants to shmooze up someone in New Jersey and get the blueprints for the original trenton state hospital 4th floor layout, that'd be awesome.

Tomorrow I'll make the 4th floor of the ward extensions and probably setup the rest of the portico.

----------


## Mouse

I can't wait to see the spires and the domes  :Smile: 

I've no idea how you are managing to get your head wrapped around all those different level dimensions.  I'm getting confused just trying to think in American storeys instead of English ones!  LOL! 

Attic space might have been stuffed full of archived patient records to keep them out of the damp in the basement levels, and out of the way of the active parts of the hospital.  Either that or scrupulously empty to prevent fire risks?

Working at a care home, we used to end up with a lot of property left behind by residents and no longer wanted or never picked up by relatives.  H&S laws and Infection Control Policies meant that we couldn't give these things to other residents or even sell them, so we had to dispose of them.  There were certain things that tended to be saved and used in the lounges after professional cleaning, though, so I imagine there might be quite a hotch potch of ex-personal belongings up there.

----------


## Robbie

I was thinking the attic would be dusty and "unfinished" but I'm not sure...if you read Kirkbride's book he actually mentions the stairs have access to the dome for visitors...I dunno about that...if the dome is the home of a huge water tank, then what are visitors going to get out of it?  Oh well.

In the meantime, I've wrapped my head around a few more bits and pieces.  I've added the 4th story of the admin building and the ward projections. That was fun. I've also added some of the beginning structure and columns of the portico entrance.  I still need to do steps, but the basic portico structure is in place and it's looking pretty sweet.  The render doesn't do it any justice though because there's actually space under the projection behind the columns with window on the 4th story up there overlooking the porch. Maybe if you adjust levels on the image they'll show up.

Any feedback?




Edit:  I looked closer and the second image did not show the underside of the porch at all, so I did a closer view from the ground looking up at the porch.



One more update before bed. STAIRS!

----------


## Arc Futahito

Good stuff. blender has a learning curve of mt Everest and pushing through the first model is very hard. Congrats on seeing the Matrix

P. S. Also, hey there, it's me  :Very Happy:

----------


## Mouse

This is looking magnificent, Robbie  :Smile: 

I'm even more convinced you are pushing for a Christmas finish with the entire game!

Maybe it was just the domes that the visitors were invited to inspect - which would mean stairs to a gallery around the base - inside and out?  At a guess, the domes would have been like miniature St Pauls Cathedral in London - no ceiling in the level below, so that the dome was more of a bubble upwards from the floor below?  I really am guessing, but the only point of building a dome is to show it off, since they are not the most practical shape for functional rooms.  But like I say - I'm only guessing.

----------


## Azélor

It looks better when you add these details.

----------


## Robbie

I kinda figured that the dome would actually house the tank. Maybe not though...we'll see whether or not it fits into my storyline as to whether or not I make it fully explorable. I spent a little time working on detailing and getting more accurate steps and shrinking up the portico overhang, because I didn't like it being so deep.  I also began the process of designing a basic rooftop for the admin building and the ward extensions...I imagine they'll be similar, just smaller. I'm REALLY liking the look of this architecture though.

----------


## Mouse

It looks more impressive each time you do an update  :Smile: 

Are the roofs on the wings going to be flat - except for the spires and domes?

----------


## Robbie

Nope, they'll be pitched as well the long way with what I think is called a dormer projection sticking out over the bay window section. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Robbie

Rather than explain and probably get it wrong above, here's a demonstration.  Here's my current roof layout without dome and spires. The exterior of this building is starting to be quite handsome, and yet again I am in awe at the speed with which the blender workflow has allowed me to put this together.  I can only hope the mesh is as clean as I think it is.  It probably isn't though.  But there's so much duplication in the model that you don't really see how it's segmented that's going to make this "level" come together much quicker than you may imagine. Once I start doing interior stuff, that's when it's going to get more time consuming, but I only have to really model one ward, and some general admin areas.

Anyways...Rooftops laid out, next will probably be either a general extrusion of the cellar, or I'll probably do some more segmentation to make texturing and performance management easier (such as having exterior objects (outside walls, columns, steps, etc) and interior objects (floors, ceilings, interior walls).

I also need to build the interior stairwells and cut the weird landing on the second/third floor of the admin building we talked about in the other thread.

----------


## Azélor

This belongs to neoclassical architecture? 
I think all the roofs sections should have a facade like the main one.

----------


## Robbie

> This belongs to neoclassical architecture? 
> I think all the roofs sections should have a facade like the main one.


Ooooh! That's a good point! I'm honestly not sure because I'm doing a hybrid Kirkbride plan based on photos from multiple hospitals of this style. I based that ward extension roof style off the Dayton hospital which was remodeled in the 80s, probably to include a modernized rooftop. 

Thanks for pointing that out! I'll make the change today. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

----------


## Robbie

I've made the adjustment to the facades of the roofs...Looks better actually. Good call azelor!

I've also cut one of the weird non-aligning staircases, and will possibly show that off tomorrow or tonight. It makes sense now to me, but isn't visible in this image. Also, color changed, lol.

----------


## Mouse

Its looking really cool, Robbie  :Smile:

----------


## Robbie

Haven't updated this thread in a while, but not for lack of progress.  Been doing some engine work...here's what it looks like currently with really poorly executed global illumination and temporary textures.




I'm going to hold off on exterior shots until I fix some of the issues I caused which made me need to recreate the entire in-game structure to handle object inheritance and asset re-use properly.

----------


## Mouse

OMG - sounds like a bit of a nightmare!

Its still looking really cool.

I only have one suggestion atm.  Those arches are a tiny bit on the blocky side.  Maybe... if it doesn't mess everything up too much... there could be more polygons to smooth the curves just a bit?

Other than that it all looks very realistic, and with the right lighting and textures could end up looking real enough to mimic a photograph  :Smile:

----------


## Robbie

Yeah, After porting to the game engine I realized how many more subdivisions those arches need...and of course the walls need trim for baseboards and crown moulding and such, maybe even a chair rail.  I have a long ways to go with figuring out lighting in Godot before I can truly achieve the right ambience.  I managed to find a project done by some folks at an art school that never got finished.  Their project was much more specific than mine, based on Buffalo State Hospital, with lots of actual reference material they were local to, but it's still served as sort of an inspiration for me: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zKR5Q  If I can get that level of ambience, I'm winning.

----------


## Mouse

Wow - they really know their stuff about lighting, don't they!

I was gazing at it, though, and it does seem a little bit too... atmospheric.  There's a definite haze between the observer and the far window at the other end of the corridor...

The lighting is helped a lot by the slightly undulating cream gloss finish to the walls, which throws back a lot more light than matte walls.

The planks on the floor are very narrow compared to yours - narrower than modern floorboards.

In the photo they're also extremely shiny, despite being dark wood, which again adds to the pool of indirect lighting.

There are a lot more ceiling plaster mould things in the two photos than there are in the model they made, but you don't really notice the lack of them so much because of all the additional details they have added lower down on the walls in their model - details that aren't necessarily there in the photos.  Its a clever distraction technique, pulling the eye away from the lack of ceiling structures by adding texture details lower down - textures costing less to process in a game machine than extra structural polygons do, I presume...

----------


## Ilanthar

WOW!! That's very impressive Robbie! Almost like a photograph (as the other ones you posted in Discord).
Does it take long to go from the 3D model to those final pictures?

----------


## Robbie

Hey everyone!  Time for some thread Necromancy!  I've revived this project because it really had held my interest in the background for a while.  I started working with Unreal Engine at my day job and so I decided to pull this up and bring it in. I'm keeping a little miniature dev blog at my website here: https://fantaseum.com/category/proje...bride-project/

I figured I'd post some pics here and just kinda say Hi and start discussing if anyone wants to discuss my progress...I still have a lot of planning to do and obviously modeling too.  But it's come along a LOT in the past couple of weeks.

----------


## Josiah VE

Great to see you back. This is looking amazing. The lighting in the hallway image is really evocative, and kinda spooky even though it's day time. 
Looking forward to seeing more  :Very Happy:

----------


## Robbie

I'm hoping to release a downloadable virtual tour mid-year.  The doors will be modified to open inward because the current method is not accurate to the actual hospitals. It is cool to be back on here! I need to spend more time.

----------


## Redrobes

Yeah, lighting is amazing. It appears like it has HDR and doing some radiosity for the walls - or perhaps some visually close cheat of it. The doors looked great. I thought they might have been premade objects but looking back through the thread they are clearly your modelling and I noted that the doorknobs have switched sides on some of them. The texturing of dirt on them makes them look well used - and abused. The walls look a bit clean in comparison. If you do a virtual tour do you think you will have sound ? Or is it intended to be a tour of the defunct building. My brain is overlaying wild tormented screams and other asylum troped sounds into this.

----------


## Robbie

I'm using the built in Unreal Engine 5 Lumen raytracing, so yeah it's all ray traced with global illumination and final gather handled in real time.  Yes I made the doors have some wear and tear and I do need to go back and work on my hallway trim texture...I'm actually going to create a trim sheet to make it look better. I also need to modify the doors to open inward because the patients often sat in chairs outside of their rooms, and the doors are crowding the hallway.

----------


## Robbie

I just posted a video to my Dev Blog...it's a very early walkaround if you're interested in seeing the lighting and such.

https://fantaseum.com/a-little-walkaround-early/

https://youtu.be/V_Pe9aI9qzk

----------


## Ilanthar

That's a good use of necromancy  :Very Happy: .
Looking great!

----------


## Redrobes

The walk around is very cool. The building & the modelling that you have done is just great. The unreal engine is pretty darn great as well. Its coming along real well though its going to be a lot of work to fill up that place as its really huge !

----------

