# Mapping Resources > How Do I ??? >  how to draw in a mountain range in photoshop

## Jaekaido

Hello Cartographers,
            Once again I find my self in need of advice. While I have been using Acsension's atlas style tutorial, I find that the mountains don't look right to me, regarding placement, they look right but are in the wrong places. The map that I am currently making, which starts as a super continent, then breaks apart and collides with another super continent. The problem I am having is while I know where they should be, there is no way for me to make them look like the ones in Acsension's style which I like very much. 

Any advice as to how I can make them look realistic when drawing them in, in photoshop?

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## Azélor

Acsension mountains are neither realistic or drawn. They are generated randomly.

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## Falconius

You can use layer masks and just mask out the areas you don't want to have mountains and still keep the cloud generated look.  But since the look is also a problem you bring up, you might consider instead to make a basic greyscale height map in some painting software and then processing it through Wilbur to add fine detailing.

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## Jaekaido

What is Wilbur and where do i find it

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## Mouse

In a very simple nutshell, Wilbur allows you to apply erosion to a height map.  A height map is a representation of the area drawn in black and white, where black is the lowest point, and white is the highest.

This is Wilbur's page:

http://www.fracterra.com/wilbur.html

You can download the software there, and if you scroll to the bottom of the page you will find all the tutorials.

There are pdf versions available here at the Guild, though I can never find the thread!  Hopefully Waldronate will see this and give you the link  :Smile: 

EDIT: I think the pdf versions are actually available on the Wilbur page, just above the html versions  :Wink:

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## Jaekaido

okay thank you would that help with rivers and lakes as well?

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## Mouse

Rivers - yes  :Smile: 

Lakes?  I think you would be better off adding them after processing the erosion in Wilbur.

Be patient!  Wilbur is a very powerful program, but it can take a bit of application to learn all its tools and how to use them to the best effect  :Wink:

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## waldronate

http://fracterra.com/FunWithWilburVol5/index.html might offer some assistance with lakes (rivers, too) when using Wilbur.

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## Jaekaido

Wilbur and i are having issues i cant understand the tutorials and for that matter i don't know how to import a picture in to it so at this point i am going to try and find another way to do it as this makes no sense to me. sorry for wasting your time. i just wish there was an easy way to make the maps that i want that are not going to cost me 200 dollars a pop.

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## Azélor

Gimp and Krita are free software.

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## Mouse

Oh dear  :Frown: 

Its very hard trying to help you without knowing exactly what it is that's going wrong.  Maybe the next step is to start a WIP thread and show us what you've done - tell us with pictures so we can see exactly what the problem is  :Smile:

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## Falconius

I think you should just take it slow, to me it sounds like you are getting overwhelmed with a lot information by trying to take too big a bite.  Try making a maps just involving one single tutorial first, you will learn some things and understand some other things better, and whilst it may not achieve the exact look you want, it'll be a first step towards achieving your overall goal.  Honestly taking things step by simple step is the only way great things get accomplished.

Edit:  Also Work In Progress (WIP) threads are definitely the best way for people to help you, and useful for many other things besides.  Mouse's advice is, as usual, spot on.

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## Jaekaido

the problem i am having is the fact that i can not draw a mountain range with the same generation like the cloud filter in photoshop. when i run Acsension's tutorial i change the mountains instead of running the difference clouds filter twice i run it once invert the colors then adjust the levels to fit a good range that looks right but it is still a random shape if i could get them a bit straighter and not so circular it would be fine but i can't seem to do that i would show you a picture but i cant give the second picture of what i want

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## Mouse

> I think you should just take it slow, to me it sounds like you are getting overwhelmed with a lot information by trying to take too big a bite.  Try making a maps just involving one single tutorial first, you will learn some things and understand some other things better, and whilst it may not achieve the exact look you want, it'll be a first step towards achieving your overall goal.  Honestly taking things step by simple step is the only way great things get accomplished.
> 
> Edit:  Also Work In Progress (WIP) threads are definitely the best way for people to help you, and useful for many other things besides.  Mouse's advice is, as usual, spot on.


I totally agree with the first part, and thank you - but I have been known to drop really HUGE bloopers before now  :Razz:   :Laughing: 




> the problem i am having is the fact that i can not draw a mountain range with the same generation like the cloud filter in photoshop. when i run Acsension's tutorial i change the mountains instead of running the difference clouds filter twice i run it once invert the colors then adjust the levels to fit a good range that looks right but it is still a random shape if i could get them a bit straighter and not so circular it would be fine but i can't seem to do that i would show you a picture but i cant give the second picture of what i want


Maybe start a WIP thread and show us your picture, then give us a hyperlink to the tutorial you were using, so that we can see what you can see and maybe get a bit closer to a better understanding of the problem?

I've never used either Photoshop or Ascension's Tutorial so I'm completely ignorant of what you mean.  But if you gave me a nice link to the tut I would be more inclined to stop what I'm doing right now (which just happens to be my own first attempt at building an entire world) and go and have a read - see if I can't figure it out for you  :Smile:

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## Jaekaido

https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=18643 
aparently it was redone by Kindari i didn't realize that but that is what i used and tomorrow i will show the differences in the two mountain ranges as i am getting ready for bed. i will show an example of both types of mountains both what Acsension's revised tutorial looks like and what i did, but the problem is being able to draw in a mountain rather than have generated randomly i will post tomorrow thought just so you guys can see

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## Tiana

> i just wish there was an easy way to make the maps that i want that are not going to cost me 200 dollars a pop.


Well, the fact that it's not easy is why map artists charge a lot of money. That said, not every artist does.

It would help us to help you if you show us your WIP.  :Smile:

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## Mouse

> https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=18643 
> aparently it was redone by Kindari i didn't realize that but that is what i used and tomorrow i will show the differences in the two mountain ranges as i am getting ready for bed. i will show an example of both types of mountains both what Acsension's revised tutorial looks like and what i did, but the problem is being able to draw in a mountain rather than have generated randomly i will post tomorrow thought just so you guys can see


I watched some of the videos linked to in that tutorial, since I'm more of a 'watch, listen and learn' person than a 'read and learn' one.  The thing that struck me is that it would be pretty difficult to control mountain placement when you are using a random fill to generate them.

I won't say too much more than that atm, since I've never used PS, and I wouldn't want to clutter your mind with my suggestions when there are hundreds of PS users here who are all far better qualified to help you than I am... but it has occurred to me that you could make a very, very large file (separately) of nothing but mountains and cut and paste from that file into your actual map - like using symbols?  

It's only a suggestion, though.  I've no idea if it would even work that way or how easy/difficult it would be.

EDIT: I think from the kind of map in that tutorial you might want to start a WIP thread here, so that its more about your map, than about a single question to do with it, since you will probably have a whole load more questions as you progress, and its easier to keep track of them if they are all in the WIP thread  :Wink:

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## Jaekaido

well i dont want to break the rules which is why i have posted things in other places. so i should start a WIP and ask my questions in there. that works for me i will get right on that this morning.

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## Mouse

You aren't breaking any rules.  Don't worry.

We _really_ aren't like that around here.  

Its just that when you have such a huge and busy forum to stroll around and only limited time in each day to check up on all the things that are happening that you have an interest in, its easier to keep track of what you're doing (for you as well as for us) if there's just the one main thread that covers the entire development of your map  :Wink: 

If you do make a thread in the wrong place, then all that happens is a kindly Community Leader will quite gently pick it up and put it in the right place for you - all links intact and so on  :Wink: 

It would be really helpful of you if you could just add a link on the end of this thread to take us directly to your new WIP thread, so that people who come looking for you here can find you again.  Thanks  :Smile:

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## Jaekaido

while I appreciate all you guys have done for me and others i think i am just going to give up on this as i can't seem to figure out how to do the pictures of where i need help. so at this point i am just going to leave the community and let you guys do what you do, seen as how i can't do it nearly as nicely as you guys can. i will am pretty tired of not getting this done and may just end up forking out a large sum of money when i can to get maps done. this process has got me all messed up in the head and there doesn't seem to be an answer to my question. the question in its basic form is how do i draw a mountain range in photoshop and i cant find a straight answer to it, though i know that there probably is one i haven't found it and will no longer waste your time with all my problems. thank you all for the help but i think i have reached the limit on this subject

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## Falconius

If you are using Windows you can take screen shots by pressing the Windows Key and the PrintScreen key at the same time, which will put it on your clip board and then you can paste it into a painting program to get a file out of it.  I'm not sure why you think you need to fork out large sums of money, let alone any money, unless you intend to purchase maps.  To help you though we really do need more specifics.  More specific questions, more specific goals, more specific examples etc.  Incidentally just defining your mapping problems more specifically often helps tremendously in and of itself.

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## Mouse

I am sorry to hear that you feel that way.

But you could always come back again in a few weeks time if you change your mind and want to give it another go?

There are many mapping styles that are not so infernally technical and complicated (that one you chose seemed very complicated way of doing things from my point of view as a non-PS user).  Maybe it would be better to start with a more simple or natural approach where things don't rely on knowing how to manipulate textures and blend modes and such.

I'm thinking that it might be easier to start with some of the mapping methods described and demonstrated by Jonathan Roberts at Fantastic Maps?

Here is his top down mountain demo...

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## Azélor

If I understand correctly, you want something random that is not random. Or something were the placement actually make sense.
You could draw the height map (elevation map) instead of generating it.
Or generate some areas and erase/draw those that don't make sense. 

Personally, getting good at making maps can take time, like any skill. 
You get better while doing it.
Your first map is probably not going to be very good unless maybe you already have artistic skills in similar art like drawing. 
You will get better.

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## Jaekaido

@Mouse okay then how would you guys suggest i go about starting, as the way i have been isn't working where should i start? can you give me a link.

@Azelor i want the same effect as the lines that the difference clouds make but in a brush form is that even possible?

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## bkh1914

> i want the same effect as the lines that the difference clouds make but in a brush form is that even possible?


One approach is it draw a gray-scale elevation map of your mountain ranges.
Then use a grunge brush on another layer to add the texture.
I've made grunge brushes from sections of a noise clouds for controlled cloud-like textures.
(I use GIMP, but I'm assuming you can make custom brushes like that in Photoshop.)

But mostly, it comes down to trial and error.  :Frown: 

Remember, separate layers and the undo key are your friends.  :Smile: 

Edit:
Another way is to create your mountain ranges (gray scale height map) and then
put a low opacity noise cloud layer over that to add texture without changing the basic shapes.
I've found that to be easier than drawing in the textures with a brush.

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## Mouse

I am really sorry Jaekaido.  

I've already made the only suggestion I can think of about where to start, and even that might not be right, since Fantastic Maps is all about drawing maps rather than generating them automatically with PS layer effects and filters.  

I really can't do any more to help you until you start your first WIP,  because giving advice about problems I can't see is something I've never managed to master.

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## Jaekaido

sorry for not responding sooner i have had stuff happen with my wife's back recently, while i can draw for some reason i cant draw in photoshop as i don't have a tablet and pen and will not be able to afford one for quite a while but even then i doubt i will be able to draw in photoshop as i don't know photoshop that well and how it works with a tablet. i am not giving up just yet i am going to try and hand draw maps and look for other tutorials here in the guild so i still have fight in me for it. i really do appreciate all the help you guys have given me and i don't want to let goand waste your time as i know there are others who need help too.

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## Falconius

In that case I suggest you go down the vector drawing program route, it works fine with a mouse except for very specialized functions (like calligraphy etc).  It is a little more intensive to start out on than a raster based program but once you climb that hurdle it ain't so bad.

Inkscape is the free one a lot of folks, as well as myself, use for their vector stuff around here.

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## QED42

This tutorial might be what you are looking for to get the mountains how you want https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ight=mountains

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## Kellerica

While I can understand your frustration, the sad truth is that making good maps takes a lot of time and effort. If you could just press a few buttons on PS and end up with a fantastic, ready-to-use map, there would not be a need for this forum to exist. You say that you can't make as nice maps as the people in here, but please take note that most of said people have put many years into learning and practicing. 

With all that being said, this forum is dedicated to trying to figure these things out together. So, I thought I'd share my own method for making those Ascension/Tear type of mountain ranges when I need it done fast. This won't end up looking quite like the Ascension style ones, but maybe it'll help you a bit. Judge for yourself.



1. Start out with bottom layer of whatever you want the color of your ground to be. I'm going with a beige-ish hue in this example.  

2. Next, make another layer on top of this one, this time setting the color to be just a tad darker than the layer below it. Give this layer a mask, and with the mask selected, Render some Clouds. After that, switch to Difference Clouds and repeat it a few times. After that, move back to the layer itself and give it a Bevel & Emboss layer style. Set the Technique to Chisel soft, and play with the numbers until you get something you like. Here, my depth is 115, Size is 35 and Soften is 2. *Set the layer opacity to 25% percent or even lower.* This is not meant to be the mountain layer, this is just a quick method of giving the ground some texture and not have it look all flat and boring. 

3. Now, moving on to the mountains themselves. Make a copy of the previous layer, set the layer opacity to a higher value, and then fill the layer mask with black. For this next step, I have made myself a set of custom brushes (see attachment) that have been made using the Cloud filter and painted into these handy tools. These things mimic the look you get with the cloud filter, but you can have much more control since you're actually painting the mountains where you want them. Set the brush opacity to something between 10-45 %, you'll quickly see what works best for you. Click-click-click away where you want your ranges to rise, and switch back and forth between black and white occasionally - sometimes the ranges end up looking best when you first raise them, and then chop little bits away. The less opacity on the brush, the more easily you can alter the ground on very subtle levels, and have complete control over where you want the lower or higher points to be. 



Feel free to play around with the layer style options when you're working - the great thing about this panel is that you can try different number values and color or pattern overlays and go very easily back if the result is not to your liking. For my example here, I ended up cranking the Bevel's Size up to 55, but left the other values as they were. 

4. If you feel like doing so, consider having a pattern overlaid over this level (and possibly the one below that too). Here I used a wonderful Bloodstone texture made by our very own Mouse, had the opacity set to 35% and then had the original Color Overlay's (the beige one) Mode set from Normal to Color. It is a subtle difference, but I think it benefits the whole.   

And that is pretty much it. With this, I can fairly quickly produce a simple bump map that can be further worked on.

I don't know if this will help at all, but here's hoping. Ask away if there is something I can clarify. 


*
(All of this is pretty much entirely stolen from Ascension and Tear's techniques! I've just put my own twist on things. Credit goes to them.)
*

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## Jaekaido

thank you all for your advice i will be trying them out and see what i can come up with.

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