# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Town/City Mapping >  WIP: Fallen Shore

## Sharpsmile

Hello all,

This is my first effort at a city map in Photoshop, and only my second Photoshop project.  This area is a zoomed in section of the Hot Gate map I am working on. 

The idea of the map was a flotilla/dock town that was built around giant ships that are now permanently docked and are used as major hubs in the town.  I struggled with the dock design around the ships, trying to figure out how the docks might grow around them as they were retired for service.

I don't like the castle looking building on the land, that is going bye bye.


Hopefully the map is interesting, any advice or feedback is always welcome.

Started off with the land (still figuring out my line work).



Started messing with docks, ships, and added in some border elements from The Hot Gate map to help me hold it all together.




So I started adding in buildings and some district details, working on shade/shadow with the buildings around the largest ship.
- took out the paper banner at the bottom
- added in the pirate icon in the upper left (all of the corner icons represent different pirate factions that operate in the area)
- The giant gear/cog is a water pool for a dwarven submarine to come up in (dwarves like caves, subs are like caves, lets roll with it)
update 03/17/15 - this one is a jpeg *Thanks Azelor for the tip* lets see how it goes =)





So I went in and modified a bunch of the docking in the North East section of the map as well as a bunch of small dock tweaks throughout, mainly putting in boat access to some of the buildings.
- Modified Docking (really tried to take the advice about putting buildings over the edge to heart and see if I could make it work with what I had goin on, I hope it looks ok).
- Started some light/shadow work on the roof pitches
- started doing some drop shadow work, still plenty of that left
- I did go through and I started labeling the waterways, docks, piers, etc... that's hiding on a separate layer....I could post that if anyone thought it might be interesting to look at.
- tweaked some of the primary dock color patterns, I was trying to make the edge of the docks look salted, the rest of the wood is old and a grey/brown.
Update 03/19/15




Thanks all!


~Sharpie

----------


## Sharpsmile

Oh no, I meant to post this under City/Town forum.  Is there any way I can move it?

Sorry about that

~Sharpie

----------


## Domino44

Very interesting idea! I will be watching this thread.

----------


## Azélor

You map is looking good  :Smile:  I really like that style. 

About your question: 

The maximum number of pixels the image can contain is a little above 30 millions. Something like 5500x5500 px. So you can make the image larger if you want.

You almost at the maximum size (bytes) allowed for a file. You can see the limit in my signature as explained by the administrator a long time ago. 

If you want to reduce the size of the file, you can export the file in jpg instead. Yes you do lose a little of quality technically, but unless your zooming at the maximum, it's almost identical. 
Saving in jpeg at the best quality possible, the file is 2,33 mb instead of 4,66 mb. 

Just make sure you keep the original file in psd uncompressed or whatever file extension your using.


Edit: PNG can make files smaller than Jpeg sometimes. It depend on several factors.

----------


## arsheesh

Ooh, this is looking promising.  I love the concept behind this piece as well.  Look forward to watching it develop.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

----------


## - Max -

> Oh no, I meant to post this under City/Town forum.  Is there any way I can move it?
> 
> Sorry about that
> 
> ~Sharpie


Moved it for you.

----------


## Ilanthar

Good concept, make me think of a novel with a great floating city made of a lot of boats. Good start, I like the way you did the water!

----------


## J.Edward

Again, nice style to start this one sharpie. It will be interesting to see how you do all the docks and buildings here.
I will enjoy seeing this unfold.  :Smile:

----------


## Sharpsmile

> Moved it for you.



Thanks Max.

----------


## J.Edward

Hey sharpie, don't be afraid to have some of the buildings extending out over the water. A lot of wharf/waterfront/dock areas do have buildings where the roof line and the actual building is cantilevered out over the water. Sometimes it's for loading/unloading from boats using a pulley system up in the building.
I think it could add a lot to this piece since it is all docks.

----------


## Sharpsmile

> Hey sharpie, don't be afraid to have some of the buildings extending out over the water. A lot of wharf/waterfront/dock areas do have buildings where the roof line and the actual building is cantilevered out over the water. Sometimes it's for loading/unloading from boats using a pulley system up in the building.
> I think it could add a lot to this piece since it is all docks.



You sir have just helped me big time, I was struggling with some areas that I am only so so about, but you are right about the function of those extended structures on docks.  Also, I was thinking about Venice and there are many buildings where smaller boats will park under them, like a garage, I am going to make some cool changes I hope, thank you again!

~Sharpie

----------


## lostatsea

Like the Looks of it so far. really like the Cornices !  :Laughing:

----------


## J.Edward

My pleasure sir.  :Wink:  Looking forward to the next update.

----------


## Sharpsmile

Having fun with doing a town so far, still trying to develop my own style and make my work pleasing to the eye...what do you all think?
- working on roof highlights
- starting to add in drop shadows for structures

- Updated the foot paths.

- I have one of the notes layers on in this one, just showing some name ideas.

My brain seems to be broken with some of my shading for the breaks in the raised paths....




Hope you like =)

~Sharpie

----------


## Domino44

Well I like it.  :Smile:

----------


## J.Edward

Well, for the raised paths, you could do some steps. Those are much easier to convey change of height.
It's looking pretty good so far.

----------


## Ilanthar

It's progressing nicely, Sharpsmile!

----------


## zeichen

I love the tonal qualities. Really interesting feel and mood. I am not sure what the black 4 corner things are, they kind of look cool but not really sure what they are. 
I like the raised textures really nice. 

Why is the largest ship totally locked in?  If it is a dry dock and the surrounding structures will be destroyed, it makes sense but otherwise really strange not to have an area that the ship can actually get out of.
Overall, I am very impressed.  You also can have floating houses that extend out further from the docks.  Where I live many houses are built that way especially shrimp farms.

----------


## Meshon

This is looking great! I'm really impressed with the shading on that rock outcrop that's just north of centre. I'm excited to see that applied to the mainland too, although I gotta say it's looking good just as lines. Actually, you know, I really like your sketch style. The peninsula at the top is really lively even without colour or shade. I would love to see an entire map done by you just as a sketch, you manage to say a lot with simple lines.

I think what I'm hoping for is a little more character on the buildings. This is funny for me to say, because the last town map I made has very flat shading, so feel free to ignore that; I certainly haven't taken my own advice! But some hints at roof textures would be good to see. You may be on that already. I'm not saying you need to sketch in every shingle, but a few marks on the roofs will liven the town up I think. Like maybe less than -Max- might do but more than you have currently? (Edit: I just spotted Larb's map here that has some nice examples too)

I also love Dead Man's Breach and I know I would like to see a couple other spots where large shoals poke up in little spikes above the water. The fact that you have taken the time to add formations under the surface adds a huge amount of depth. Literally I guess!

This is really nice work.

Cheers,
Meshon

----------


## ascanius

One question, how do the ships get out, those waterways look much to narrow for them to pass.  Sorry if this was already answered.  Other than that it's a very interesting map, it remindes me of lake Town in the Hobbit.

----------


## J.Edward

ascanius - he stated at the beginning why the boats were locked into place. It had to do with the backstory. I initially thought the same thing.

----------


## Sharpsmile

Hi all, had to replace my tablet pen (my three year old thought it was super neat), got the new one today!

Thanks for the feedback so far all!

Almost done with the buildings, I am messing around with adding in some detail on a separate layer (should have that mocked up soon).

Next week its back to working on land and underwater features.

This project has been very fun and I have learned a ton about Photoshop in the process (having never used it before working on this map and The Hot Gate map, so about three months of total PS time so far), you might see weird irregularities in some elements on the map, these are reflective of my learning process, hopefully as I get better I will settle in on my core workflow for future projects.

Current update below:  I know that the boats look like they are floating over the water, I will fix that =)



For whatever reason I wanted to see what the map would look like at night, below is a proof of concept for that idea, this is what I have so far, any thoughts?



I am not super great at quoting others posts, but I did read them all and would like to comment on some:

- For the detail on the roofs comment: I am messing around with roof detail on a separate layer and will share what that looks like soon.  I have looked at Max's map and I love his art style and well as J.Edwards and Larbs town maps that all have roof detail.  I love how those artists used roof detail in their maps, however when I first was thinking of Fallen Shore, my focus was trying to develop my own digital art style while trying to teach myself Photoshop.  I will say this, I have started a village that is on the same island as Fallen Shore, and it does have roof details and I think a cleaner look, hopefully I can post that soon to show.

- For the comments on tonal qualities as well as general appreciation of the work done so far:  Thanks!  I have always drawn and painted in a softer style and do tend to lean more towards neutral tones, I hope to continue to hone my skills and share with you all.

- As for the massive ship locked into the docks:  Those ships are retired and the docks literally grew around them, or at least that was the design philosophy. I wanted to try and work out what that would even look like. Think of them like any major part of a city, a capitol building, a massive market place, an arena, and so on....I will have details on them when I put the Key together.

- As for the corner symbols:  Fallen Shore was founded by pirates at first and has always been used as a black market that lies well outside of any established shipping/trade routes.  Currently there are four pirate captains that hold major influence here, those are their symbols.  Would you guys like a write up on lore/history, or is that not super useful here?


Anyways thank you all and as always feedback is good, for instance I sort of think my buildings look blobby, but that's just me.

~ Sharpie

----------


## J.Edward

I really like the night scene. That looks really good.

----------


## Larb

I agree - I love nighttime maps even if they are not always practical.

----------


## gilgamec

> As for the massive ship locked into the docks:  Those ships are retired and the docks literally grew around them, or at least that was the design philosophy. I wanted to try and work out what that would even look like. Think of them like any major part of a city, a capitol building, a massive market place, an arena, and so on....I will have details on them when I put the Key together.


That's cool, but they don't seem to be built to at all; they don't even touch the piers! For something the town's grown up around, I'd expect more-or-less permanent structures connecting them to the rest of the town.

----------


## Ilanthar

Nice work on the lights in your night version!

----------


## Corilliant

That looks lovely! Someday I'm going to have to find out how on earth you guys make those lovely textures, heheh.

Looking forward to the next one.

----------


## Sharpsmile

Heya all,

Here is my most recent update, I finally had some time to just relax and work on this piece today =)

Working on some shading and color for the land/forests


As always comments are welcome =)  have a great weekend all!



Oh and the night map is almost done, I will get that updated tomorrow.


~ Sharpie

----------


## Larb

Those trees are really nice.

----------


## Sapiento

> Those trees are really nice.


I second that.

----------


## Ilanthar

Thirded  :Wink: ! Those trees are gorgeous.

----------


## Sharpsmile

Thanks guys!

Here is another update:

-- more tree work
-- some water work
-- some land shading





~ Sharpie

----------


## a.coldyham

I'd like to know more about the gear shaped gap in the walkways mid right. It looks interesting

----------


## Chashio

That's looking nice Sharpie! How close do you think you are to finished at this point? (Just curious.)

----------


## Sharpsmile

Thanks Chashio, I am not sure how much longer I have on this map, I am still teaching myself the ins and outs to of Photoshop and I have never attempted a map like this before.  I would say maybe  a couple of more updates and around 10 hours or so, I could be way off tho  :Smile: . Every time I look at the map I see things that I want to do better or change, but I am sure that is a feeling that most of you have felt on your projects right?

~ Sharpie

----------


## J.Edward

It's looking really good Sharpie. I really like how you've rendered things.  :Smile:

----------


## Sharpsmile

Thanks J. it's been a fun process so far. 

 one thing that I am finding is that I am having hand fatigue during my shading process.  On my next map I need to figure out how to achieve a clean shading workflow, I know I must be doing something wrong, I might be just over doing it on the shading.  I have my pen settings set to pressure sensitive, between 10% - 20% so that I can layer my shading.  I know that when I draw on paper I apply varying levels of pressure with my pencils to achieve a feather and then I will blend to eliminate hard edges. One of the things that I love about your maps and Larbs maps is that you guys just have a single shade tone and it's super freaking clean looking, I actually tried to emulate that on the building roofs on the land area, anyways thanks for the feedback and I will continue to try to elevate my skills.

as for an update, here you go, I think I might be done on the land stuff, well I might need to do some work on the road.  Time for the water work, both surface and underneath the surface.

Feed back is always appreciated.




~ Sharpie

----------


## Chashio

> Every time I look at the map I see things that I want to do better or change, but I am sure that is a feeling that most of you have felt on your projects right?


Absolutely.  :Smile:

----------


## J.Edward

Hey Sharpie, how are you doing the shading? I do it several different ways depending on the style of map I'm doing.
But one way that may be easier for you is to create a layer and set it to multiply. Then use a mid to light grey and paint in all the shaded areas.
Once done, use a good smudge brush and blend/fade the edges of the shadows, except where they come close to a hard structure.

That's one way. I do a number of different ones. Sometimes I'll have several different multiply layers with differing tones of grey.
I'll add that my hands do hurt some after drawing for a number of hours. I grip too tight when I work. It's a bad habit.

----------


## Meriba

Very cool idea!

----------


## Domino44

It keeps looking better and better! I really love everything about it!

----------


## Francissimo

What you've done with trees is really amazing, the sense of depth is perfect!

----------


## Sharpsmile

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to touch base with the community, I know I have not updated this map in a month.  I am between homes right now and Have not had any time to draw, but I should be settled into a new place soon.

Thank you for all of your support!


~Sharpie

----------


## a.coldyham

Good luck with your current situation. If your moving skills are anywhere near as good as the drawing, you probably won't need it. 

Sent from my SM-G357FZ using Tapatalk

----------


## J.Edward

Hey Sharpie, I hope you found somewhere.
I also hope to see more of this map sometime.  :Smile: 
Look forward to seeing you back around the guild. Cheers.

----------


## Sharpsmile

Hi everyone,  well I must say it took me far longer to find a home to move my family back to, but we finally got settled =)

A.Cold, I think my art skills were better than my moving skills =P

J.E, Thank you for posting so recently, and yes now that I have dusted off my computer and tablet, I can get back to some artwork.  It's weird being away from it all for so long, I am looking at this map and feel pretty good about it....what do you think I should tidy up? 


Will be posting new maps soon...

~ Sharpie

----------


## Teferi

I really like your ocean and colour, the effect you achieved is great!  :Smile: 
As for the Docks and Walkways, I think they feel a bit too... polygonial? Not quite natural, but quite obviously an aggregation of geometrical shapes, hard and straight edges with harsh corners - wich stands in opposition to the vibe of a "forgotten coast" "treasure island" "lawless shipyard" vibe I seem to be getting from the map in it's general look and feel  :Smile:

----------


## Sharpsmile

I appreciate the feedback about the polygonal line work with the docks.  In truth I am still trying to get the hang of using Photoshop to do maps, however with practice I should be able to do better on the next map!  I am a big fan of What's done is done, but I do think that with this I may be able to go back and rough out the dock edges.  

In further Sharpsmile news, I rebuilt my PC, so I am back up and running as of about a month ago, and I have started a few new maps.  I will wrap up the Fallen Shore map and have it completed in a week or two ( time permitting).

Thanks again!

----------


## J.Edward

> I appreciate the feedback about the polygonal line work with the docks.  In truth I am still trying to get the hang of using Photoshop to do maps, however with practice I should be able to do better on the next map!  I am a big fan of What's done is done, but I do think that with this I may be able to go back and rough out the dock edges.  
> 
> In further Sharpsmile news, I rebuilt my PC, so I am back up and running as of about a month ago, and I have started a few new maps.  I will wrap up the Fallen Shore map and have it completed in a week or two ( time permitting).
> 
> Thanks again!


Awesome. Glad to have you back Sharpie.  :Very Happy: 
Makes corrections if it feels right.
Move on if that feels right.
Sometimes trying to make something right, especially after a long break, is less productive than moving forward.
I struggle to complete maps that have sat for a while.  :Confused: 

Glad your pc situation is back in order.

----------


## Sharpsmile

Thanks J.E., glad to be back!

I am going to be working on this map live via Twitch on Sunday night, so if you or anyone is interested in chatting about maps and stuff while I work, feel free to join in the fun!

See you all real soon!

----------

