# Mapping Resources > How Do I ??? >  Clickable province zones with data on regional/political map, Birthright -- GIS?

## Stuart Miller

Hi all!  

I'm looking for suggestions about how best to create a map with clickable regions that can be presented on a web page.  I'd like to bring to life old D&D Birthright maps (and others) by taking their political maps and enabling players to click on a kingdom or province and then have information displayed.  That creates some problematic requirements:

1. Editable layers on top of an overland map (which can be, preferably, an imported base image), with definable borders for provinces and a hierarchy of groupings (provinces within a duchy, duchy within an empire, etc).  These borders should be easy to change.
2. Interactive -- click on a defined region, pull up information, preferably linked to an external data source (because the data would frequently change).
3. Able to be hosted on a web page so that many people can interact with it.

I'd love to have GIS-like capabilities, but what limited experience I have with GIS softwares seem pretty strictly tied to real-world map data and may not allow much free form editing of polygons or borders.  If there is something, please let me know!

I've also considered game engines or map editors, but again, I'm having trouble meeting the requirements above.  It seems like Outerra Anteworld was really heading in this direction, but that project appears abandoned.

The nearest I've considered so far is importing the base image of the overland map into *Visio*, creating layers over it to draw shapes, and planning to create a web drawing that would bring up shape sheets and hyperlinks on clicks.  The data can even be connected to external sources, like Excel, Access, SQL, SharePoint.  All stuff I'm familiar with from the business world.  BUT, I can't seem to figure out how to create a custom stencil with custom shape data that I can easily trace over the provinces and regions.  It seems that a custom stencil creates a single shape and if you want to reuse the data ("Province" with its associated statistics and metadata), you have to reuse the same exact shape, and then painstakingly adjust the shape by all the little control points after (as opposed to just tracing lines in the first place).  I'd considered also creating a tiny hex grid overlay and grouping clusters of hexes as province and kingdom objects, though I would have to find a way of making the outlines of the groups boldly visible.

If there's a better way to make Visio work, I'd love that.  I'm more familiar with it and more sure that it can ultimately handle the web drawing accessibility and data connections that would make it even more useful, but I'm not tied to it necessarily.

A super bonus round for me would be the ability to drop icons for different levels of cities/holdings on the provinces, or army representations, and then easily move the army units across the map like a wargame (Birthright being part war game).  That's one reason I was interested in GIS/Google-maps-like approaches.  But that's definitely secondary to the primary goals above.

And yes, this is basically creating an interactive game map.

I'm a n00b, having played around with fantasy maps for rpgs for years, but not heavily.  I've done many hand drawn and on FractalMapper and such, but have never devoted lots of time to mastering any one software. 

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!

----------


## waldronate

I believe it may have been mentioned before, but http://365daysmasti.blogspot.com/201...p-creator.html shows this sort of thing just using HTML. It's a bit of a bear to maintain these sorts of things long-term, but that's the price you pay for simplicity.

You can also use one of the many display libraries like leaflet.js to handle the display of your base image and then add clickable areas to the image. Same general issues as straight HTML, but you get the fancy and zoomable slippy map as well. If you want to put in some work, you can adjust the tile sets as you zoom in.

If it were me (and it was, back in the days of the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas globe program), I would make an image for the higher level that contained the pretty pictures (perhaps a JPEG) and another image of exactly the same size that contained colors that linked to a description / link file. Then I'd write a little bit of JavaScript (this part's different than what I did way back when) and use the mouse position on the pretty image to read the corresponding pixel in the link image. That color is then used as a lookup and the appropriate action is taken for mouseover and for click. Straightforward to code, fairly easy to use in practice.

----------


## niekell

Hello Stuart,
Welcome to the Guild!

Ah Birthright... you're in my wheelhouse. I've been running BR campaigns since the setting came out. Through AD&D2E, D&D3.0, D&D3.5, and now PathFinder. It is my setting of choice and everything else pales in comparison for me.

The type of interactive map you are describing is something I've already mentioned in two other threads. I put an example up on my personal webspace, and it's still there (for now). The example is the drill-down image-map variety where you can click on a part of the map and it zooms in to the next level down. The example has 5 levels of zoom, ranging from world view down to building floor plan. 
The interesting part for you might be more the "admin" pages I threw up where I have used a jquery library made by someone else (http://iakob.com/canvas-area-draw/demo.html) to outline the clickable areas. This overlays them with colours and allows you to manipulate points on the shape's edge. I think that if it can overlay with one colour (with variable opacity) then it should be possible to do other colours as well and thus you could have countries/duchies each in their own colour. 

As for dropping icons on the map for holdings... interesting idea, I guess you might be able to do it with layers but it might be a bit of a pain to line up with the map layer (or not, as the colour overlay layer is lined up somehow already). I'd have taken the less impressive road and made the province/holding information show up in a panel next to the map.

The original thread was here Jeremy here, and the other interactive mapping thread is here interactive maps.
I'm happy to talk about this more, especially if it is Birthright related!  :Smile: 
Long live The Gorgon's Alliance!

Best wishes, niekell.

----------


## Stuart Miller

Thanks both, for the welcome and replies.  I came across Leaflet.js earlier today, waldronate, and I will definitely have to investigate more.  Little by little, I'm finding the occasion to learn javascript, which I'm sure will give me many options, including connecting to data sources.  Currently it's a bit out of my reach to even do the layering and mouseover summons of data, though I think I know enough to poke at that and work it out eventually.

Niekell, glad to find another BR fan!  I still drive by the fan site (Birthright.net) every now and then, and have been involved in many PBEM/PBP forum games over the years.  I hope to do that again some day, and maybe use this interactive map to facilitate one.

I'll explore those links when I get a chance.  As for the icons for holdings, they could be as simple as normal map icons for buildings or cities that are similarly clickable to bring up a little data.  Something actually a lot like Gorgon's Alliance.  If GA could be easily multiplayer, run on up-to-date systems (I had problems running in even in compatibility mode once you get beyond XP), and be used just as tool alongside a game, and cover all of Cerilia, it would be the solution right there.  In a dreamworld, this would be practically a mini-game, supporting the realm-level actions of players while the role-playing and turn resolution happened off the map, and the map was just used for positioning and helping players visualize and track everything.  The starting point with clickable regions that brings up province stats really goes a long way and I think should be achievable.  I'm not so sure about representing more complex things like the holdings, or player forming of roads, trade routes, or tracking movement of armies (by using banner/token icons or similar).

----------


## niekell

There is a leaflet.js example of political boundaries here http://bsrp.tkunkel.de/maps/regional/. 
(If the political areas aren't showing, click the layers button at the top right and choose "politisch".) 
That map is linked from the ProFantasy forums here http://forum.profantasy.com/comments...cussionID=5696 and has documentation on how to convert a Campaign Cartographer map to a leaflet interactive map. Makes sense since it can leverage the vector nature of CC's CAD system.
I guess which way you go depends upon how fluid you want the zoom. Jumping in gradients is easier, but leaflet.js does the smooth zoom very well.

----------


## Stuart Miller

Interesting.

I came across Hexographer and am considering it, too.  Though I'm not sure how the Notes feature works, which is, I think, a popup feature that would achieve showing info.  Just not with connection to back end data.

BTW, if you like the Birthright maps, these are some blank ones (so you can write in your own names and stats): http://www.birthright.net/forums/dow...do=file&id=162

----------


## niekell

Hi Stuart, 

Here is a *rough* example I threw together using HTML with a handful of Jquery libraries and reading a XML data file for realm description.
Is this somewhat crudely representative of what you're trying to do?
_(Please note that I did not implement every Cerilian country/county/duchy/principality but I did 5 realms in Anuire and Brechtur. I didn't go down to province level but there is nothing stopping further drill downs from being added. This doesn't include holdings or assets such as roads, castles, etc.)_

----------


## Stuart Miller

I like it.  How is the text being retrieved?  Is it in a separate file or database?  I am thinking more and more, though, that to truly make this helpful for an actual game, it would eventually need to tie in to a data source that can be easily edited and return data for players -- like in turn submission forms.  

Also, how easily can borders be changed?

The challenge here is not just a static, clickable map, but making it easy to update and use for a game, which does make this quite a bit more complex an undertaking.  I've been doing some research to see what others in the Birthright gaming community have done before.  I'll share below some things that I've found, that I thought you might catch your interest.

Birthright.net Forum Posts:
Interactive Map
Downloads section for Maps: http://www.birthright.net/forums/dow...hp?do=cat&id=1

An interactive map someone was trying to build to essentially replace Gorgon's Alliance, the old Sierra game: http://www.deismaar.com/cerilia_map2/Map.html.  He had rebuilt much of the functionality, but not released it publicly, because he was still debugging and testing.  And then I think it died as he moved on when he realized he needed to abandon Flash and didn't yet have the skills or plan to convert to a replacement.

Managing Tool for Birthright  This guy created a game tracker.  Would love to integrate something like this into a map, by connecting the data.  Track the data with the tool, display on map, allow to drill into data on the map and link back to the tool.

Currently I'm still keeping in the running the idea about Visio overlays onto the continent map, because I know that I can link Visio shape data to an external data source that I am used to working with and that I know can allow players to interact with forms and reports accessing the same data (Excel, Access, SharePoint, SQL).  It also presents well in a Visio web page.  I'm still stuck with the painful problem right now of possibly needing to rebuild a new shape or stencil for each polygon, or to tug borders of the polygons around if I want to reshape an existing polygon.  Still hoping to find a way around that.

If I can figure out how to use your approach and link to external data sources, I think it could well be cleaner than Visio.

----------


## Stuart Miller

Also these:
Layered map

source data for previous

Blank vector drawing outlines of continent and provinces

It could be really nice to take that blank vector drawing base and layer onto it to recreate the Birthright world map in a different style.  Make it really pretty in a medieval or ancient map world style, or one of the other stylized works of art showcased here.  Using layers, could still add terrain, political boundaries, cities, rivers, roads, etc.

----------


## niekell

Hello Stuart,

_I like it. How is the text being retrieved?_
From the HTML page using a jQuery Ajax "get" call which reads XML.

_Is it in a separate file or database?_
The data is in a separate file. In this case "data.xml". If you want to view that file you can just replace the html page at the end of the URL (address) with the datafile name and most browsers should show the xml.

_I am thinking more and more, though, that to truly make this helpful for an actual game, it would eventually need to tie in to a data source that can be easily edited and return data for players -- like in turn submission forms._
As an expedient example I went for a simple structured external source for the data. XML seemed like the best candidate. I wouldn't use it for the scale you are envisioning where data for whole realms is needed. A database would be best for that, MySQL is free and JQuery can be used to connect to and read from it so that would be my recommendation for a place to start. I didn't mock up an example of that because that involves having a live running mySQL database at an ISP and my webspace is static only at this time.

_Also, how easily can borders be changed?_
Depends how dynamic you want it to be, I could simply remap borders as needed when they change hands from one regent to another, but that would involve firing up a selection page to outline the new country and then I would have to modify the country which lost the province as well. Although quick to do (less than 5 minutes), this would probably become tedious over time. A better way to do it would be to store the imagemap coords of each province in the "data store" (whatever it is) along with the "owning realm". There would have to be some manipulation (in code) to merge all the provinces' coords into a country before returning the imagemap coords for the whole country to the HTML which would then show the country as a whole rather than a grouping of separate bordered provinces. This should be possible but would require precision defined coords so that there was no province overlap or gaps between provinces.

_The challenge here is not just a static, clickable map, but making it easy to update and use for a game, which does make this quite a bit more complex an undertaking._
I realise that is your goal. You said it was to be something like Gorgon's Alliance in the way it handled realm management. I have that game (original box and CD) and have played it a lot (long ago) so I know the extent of what you want. That level of integration and fine detail would basically make this endeavour a whole "web application", not a simple website with some scripts. GA was a retail game... and you're basically looking to recreate ~AND~ extend it... for free. It's an ambitious ask imo.

_I've been doing some research to see what others in the Birthright gaming community have done before._
Thanks for the links, I'd seen some of them before from the birthright.net forums which I visit from time to time, but I appreciate the consolided list you provided.

_Managing Tool for Birthright This guy created a game tracker. Would love to integrate something like this into a map, by connecting the data. Track the data with the tool, display on map, allow to drill into data on the map and link back to the tool._
Yeah, I get the idea. GA (Gorgon's Alliance) level of detail desired... with more (roads, castles, etc).

It sounds like you might be trying to fit a square block into a round hole by going the Visio route. I assume you are looking into it because you are most familiar with it. Let me just say that although I am very familiar with HTML and HTML forms linked to a database back-end, I know/knew little jquery prior to doing the research for the example I put up with the highlighted map areas. It's hard to learn new technologies, but sometimes it is worth taking the plunge as they're a better fit for your goal. 
With Visio, you need a licence from Microsoft to use it right?
Is that really viable for others who want to use the tool?

_If I can figure out how to use your approach and link to external data sources, I think it could well be cleaner than Visio._
My example is already linking to an external data file, as mentioned earlier.
However, I would recommend a database... which requires a specific hosting agreement with your ISP for them to make available that technology. I don't have that with my ISP at this time, though it is available if I wanted to pay the extra for it.
If you want to go into detail about the approach I used send me a private message and we'll arrange some other line of communication for that level of detailed back and forth.

_It could be really nice to take that blank vector drawing base and layer onto it to recreate the Birthright world map in a different style. Make it really pretty in a medieval or ancient map world style, or one of the other stylized works of art showcased here. Using layers, could still add terrain, political boundaries, cities, rivers, roads, etc._
JQuery:Maphilight is already using multiple layers (in this case they are HTML "canvas"es) to provide the "remain selected" functionality of the area selection. So there is nothing stopping other layers being used for roads, cities, holdings, castles, etc. I have no idea how complex it would be at this time, but I believe it would be possible from what little I learned debugging maphilight; which wouldn't work out of the box when multiple maps were on the same webpage. (Yes I had to debug and fix the JQuery pagelet which called maphilight otherwise only one map at a time would do the highlight. It was a scoping problem in the end which was easily solvable.)

On the blank vector drawing base idea... it is backward to my approach. What I did was take an existing map, it could have been ANY map, and overlay the areas onto it. The areas become the vector outlines with coords. You could switch the underlying map easily, especially if it was the same size as the existing one... by that I mean you could use the campaign-stock Cerilia map to set up all your regions (vector coord sets) and then switch out the map with a more artistically rendered one provided it was the same scale and all the provinces etc lined up still.
I could put a Forgotten Realms map down and define political areas on it and it would work exactly the same way. 

I tend to favour making a solution able to support generics so that it isn't locked into one setting... larger target audience that way. Also the user can then load whatever maps they want (which solves licensing issues for this solution) and set up their regions. You could go so far as providing a "pack" for Birthright, or Golarion, or Forgotten Realms, which has all the defaults already set.

As far as I can tell, from the point of view of a web developer with 20+ years experience, it is all possible but would take a significant investment of time and effort (and expertise) to achieve.
It boils down to the fundamental question 'What are you willing to invest to achieve the goal?'.

----------


## Stuart Miller

Thanks for the extended response.  A few thoughts in reply.

Yes, my tendency towards Visio and surrounding technologies is familiarity.  The designer of a drawing needs a license, but the output can be saved as a web page and consumed by anyone.  They would not be able to edit the drawing directly.  However, updates to the source data (through forms) would flow through, changing shape data (like levels) or even shapes (colors, borders, icons) if conditional formulas were set.

I see the more complete freeform control I could have with your approach.  I will need to consider it more.  Adding the learning curve to the time investment is an issue.  I figured I'd scale my approach in phases. 

For the GA comparison, I'm not looking to replace the whole thing.  The game includes a lot more than the map.  But yeah, I need to break down into more achievable chunks.  I can see how redrawing borders automatically would be pretty complex; probably easier to re-shade than change outlines.  Roads, trade routes, ley lines would be similarly so, and holding icons probably not very useful anyway.  Easier to present that stuff in a window or formatted notes area drawing from the database.  The PBEM/PBP games already use some form or other of database and forms, of necessity.

I'll think things over some more and come back to this.

You've said you love the Birthright setting and would like to see more done with it...what would be on your wish list?

----------


## niekell

Hello Stuart,

_Thanks for the extended response._
Verbosity is not something I suffer from a lack of.  :Wink: 
Which is as much a curse as a blessing. I'll try to be more succinct.

_I see the more complete freeform control I could have with your approach. I will need to consider it more. Adding the learning curve to the time investment is an issue. I figured I'd scale my approach in phases._
Well I'd consider myself a beginner with JQuery, but I am willing to try to answer any questions you may have about how I implemented the dual level maps and selection areas. I used maphilight for the heavy lifting work and that is someone else's code library.

_I can see how redrawing borders automatically would be pretty complex;_
I think it could be done without too much pain. Initial setup would be a bit complex, but once defined the coords of a province wouldn't change. If my thinking is correct then to merge provinces into a group (county/duchy/principality) would just be a matter of identifying the shared edges (vectors) and eliminating them from the collection of all the provinces in the group. Then it should be just a matter of outputting what is left as a logical sequence of points to encapsulate one area (i.e. no edge-lines/vectors should cross one another). This would also happily cater for the situation where you nab a province which isn't adjacent to your existing lands.  :Smile: 

_Roads, trade routes, ley lines would be similarly so_
Definitely useful to be able to hide/show these on a map. Layers seems to be the answer here, but I don't have the details on how to achieve that... yet. I was thinking about it and really all you'd need was to identify the middle of a province and use that as an endpoint for the leyline, trade-route, or road. For realm management purposes you don't need to know the exact route of any of those, just that the province is covered.

_...holding icons probably not very useful anyway. Easier to present that stuff in a window or formatted notes area drawing from the database. The PBEM/PBP games already use some form or other of database and forms, of necessity._
Totally do-able, as the example from birthright.net shows already. Simple to throw data up on screen in tables.

_You've said you love the Birthright setting and would like to see more done with it...what would be on your wish list?_
I have done the whole realm management side of things (with Excel mostly) as both Player and DM; though it was enjoyable I found it very disjointed for Players used to RPGs and that it edged away from Role-Playing into War-Gaming. I prefer Role-Playing to War-Gaming so I wasn't entirely happy with the change. Having to take that whole "Adventure" action to do modules and major encounters was quite limiting. 
For the past ten or more years I've been using the setting as the host world to standard adventuring parties and it works very well for that imo. All the realm information provides a wealth of plot ideas and adventure hooks no matter where you go in all Cerilia. Obviously the resulting campaigns are political heavy as the setting encourages that.
My wishlist does contain the realm management tool you describe, but it is below a "campaign tracking tool". I would like a campaign tracker which has a dashboard which shows all the things I might be asked by a Player. Weather, phase of moon, day of week, upcoming holy days (regional or global), route tracking on a map (with customisable historical fade), calendar/journal, PC character sheet, PC relationships to NPCs and Organisations (preferably a diagram format), all this with the ability to make notes onto a zoomable (either transitional layers or smooth zoom) atlas style map to reflect specific campaign notes (non-canon). Now the only part of that related to Cartographer's Guild is the map with route tracking and custom notes. On that map I'd like to be able to drill down to City Designer (Campaign Cartographer terminology) level so I can make notes on buildings if needed. None of that "campaign tracking tool" needs be Birthright specific in itself, but I would end up using it for my Birthright games anyway.
Do I want to see more done with the BR setting? Absolutely! For me it is like Firefly... it was abandoned why? For the love of whatever god you hold dear, WHY!?!? 
I'd love for ALL the domains to have a Player's Secrets booklet done for them. I'd like to see more adventures for the setting. New Awnsheghlien, perhaps evolved from the defeat of old Awnsheghlien such as The Vampire is. The module "Hunt for Bloodsilver" was one of my all-time favourites, and I think it showcased the setting very well. There should be more of that showcasing of why Birthright is such a great setting and what makes it unique/special.

Dang! Succinct... fail! Sorry.

(Oh and don't think I didn't notice you avoided answering my final question!  :Razz:  You didn't have to, of course, as is your prerogative, but I was interested in knowing the amount of investment you envisioned having.) :Smile:

----------


## Stuart Miller

Far from remarking on the length of your post, I was thanking you for your thoroughness and thoughtfulness.   :Smile:   I lack the gift of brevity myself.

*Borders* -- can you define the lines between connection points on each province (an irregular polygon) to be an object of its own?  Would it be easier to manipulate them as objects than as coordinates?  I am not familiar with working with vector coordinates yet.

*Roads* -- yes, most games will just have a generic "Road" asset applied to a province.  I think the GA game had it set up so that roads would automatically change to connect to those of adjacent provinces, running through the middle.  My brother-in-law created a little tower defense game where roads and rivers auto-connected when placed adjacent another hex containing them.  

*Campaign Tools*
Some interesting things in your "wish list"  :Smile: .  Sounds like a GM assist tool that, with the proper inputs (either random tables, or a more complex simulation), could produce weather, lunar and astronomical data, and align with calendars and feasts.  It would be nice to see an artist interpret that into a changeable scene, like a banner at the top of a web page.  As a GM, it's easy to forget to include interesting details that can enhance play and even affect the story, decisions, or encounters (like rain/snow, twilight, heat/cold, etc).

The "diagramming" of campaign events, character relationships, and so forth sounds like "mind-mapping," for which I believe there are a number of free tools that can be shared and collaborated on.

It seems like there are a number of mapping tools that allow drilling down or linking maps.  Some even seem to auto-generate scenes--wilderness or city, for instance, or at least have a city "brush" or "randomizer" that could be used to rapidly build them.  Hexographer seemed to have that.  It would be great to link that with a medieval demography tool.

I think the challenge is bringing it all together--but I don't think that's even necessarily very challenging anymore, just time consuming.  You could pull several tools together on a website and interconnect them, and have a campaign site.  The next step is making it reusable, making a template out of it that can have all the back end assumptions customizable per game or setting.

*Birthright game*
I love the Birthright setting flavor, too, and it allows for one of the best sandbox worlds and most "alive" feeling settings.  I love the strategy game aspect of it even more than the adventure scale, though.  I agree that it can be difficult to move between them.  I'd like a more fluid scaling of the system, since PCs also often want to have smaller scale assets, like a base of operations (hideout, headquarters, tavern, castle), or be part of an organization with some resources.  Those exist on a level below the domains and holdings, however.  And for a GM, controlling all the NPC stuff in the background is impossible to do in detail; a wider-scale, faction-level system could be helpful there.  Ultimately, an "AI" that auto-runs NPC domains could have amazing benefits for both strategic level play and for making the background of the world come alive for adventuring.  A big part of the GA game was reacting to the actions of your neighbors, and with the Scene Editor, you could tweak things and even watch the AI resolve things and go at it.

I agree with the Firefly analogy.  Hate to see a great story and world abandoned.  That's why the fan community at Birthright.net and those who play the online games are so great, though I've noticed it dwindling over the years.

Have you ever played a PBEM or Play-by-Post forum game?  I've played in those games off and on for over 10 years, with many of the core community joining, making long-term friendships.

*Time investment, map designers and commissions*
Do you have any idea how much map designers find reasonable as commissions for building maps?  Or at least an order of magnitude range for the time it may take to build some of the great maps we see around here?

I ask because when I think about the amount of time I may have to put into something, I always end up being over ambitious and unrealistic about my availability, considering the many other things competing for my time and my general poor management of it :/ .   However, I work a good job that occasionally lets me put in over time, and I sometimes think about how an hour may be more efficiently be used working overtime and paying someone considerably more skilled to take care of something for me (as they can do it faster and better), rather than spending that much more time working at it myself.  I do that sometimes with home improvement or fixes.  If it's something fairly easy for me or that I consider fun or leisurely, I'll do it myself; but where it's work or tedious, it may be better to work for pay and pay someone else to do it with what I make in the meantime  :Smile: .  I think mapping can be fun, but the learning curve + some potentially-tedious aspects make me consider commissioning something...

Realistically, I scrounge out a few hours a week for hobbies I do alone.  That's 100+ hours a year (usually not focused on just one thing).  And that may diminish as my eldest son is now in kindergarten and starting those extracurriculars that keep parents busy, too.

----------


## niekell

Hello Stuart.

_I lack the gift of brevity myself._
 :Cool:  Well that makes the clubhouse busier!  :Wink: 

_Borders_
To automatically figure out which sides/lines of a border to drop when another adjacent province is incorporated (or lost) you'd have to know both ends of the line, both 2d coords. So in effect you do need the work with the line as an object pretty much. 

_Roads_
Easy enough to set the property of the province to be "hasRoad=True" (or similar) but then I would also need to keep adjacency maps. Which is totally possible since provinces don't move... (well except Sideath, but let's not go there for now). Making a adjacency table in a database would be simple as it is just a basic map between province ids.

_Campaign Tools
It would be nice to see an artist interpret that into a changeable scene, like a banner at the top of a web page._
A picture is worth a thousand words, and a composite picture like that would be worth even more. Great idea! I was thinking more along the lines of separate widgets (so you could arrange the "dashboard" as you desired, but your idea is more compact and data rich and that is important when screen real-estate is at stake.

_As a GM, it's easy to forget to include interesting details that can enhance play and even affect the story, decisions, or encounters (like rain/snow, twilight, heat/cold, etc)._
I agree wholeheartedly, some of the most memorable role-playing I've been involved with has been due to environmental conditions. I once ran a solo game for a friend where weather was a vital part of the module's atmosphere. It was dark and breezy in real life, so that helped with immersion, but I knew it was working (all too well) when he literally jumped out of his chair and almost took a swing at my sister who casually came in the door to relay a message from my folks. "Fight or flight" in action there.

_I think the challenge is bringing it all together--but I don't think that's even necessarily very challenging anymore, just time consuming._
Yes, I agree that it is more and more becoming a matter of integration rather than outright technical challenge.

_I agree with the Firefly analogy. Hate to see a great story and world abandoned. That's why the fan community at Birthright.net and those who play the online games are so great, though I've noticed it dwindling over the years._
I'm a registered member, and have been for some time. I've donated $ as well, but as I'm not a heavy user I've only done that once. I think br.net is an invaluable source of information and discussion. I wouldn't say I'm very active over there though.

_Have you ever played a PBEM or Play-by-Post forum game? I've played in those games off and on for over 10 years, with many of the core community joining, making long-term friendships._
I have a friend who lives locally (well same state atm) who had taken part in a couple of the Birthright.net PBEM games. I am always a bit hesitant to take the plunge with something like that in case it then consumed too much of my time. Still curious though. Maybe one day I'll throw my hat in the ring.

_Time investment, map designers and commissions
Do you have any idea how much map designers find reasonable as commissions for building maps? Or at least an order of magnitude range for the time it may take to build some of the great maps we see around here?_
From what I've read on the forums here it can vary widely. It can depend upon if you have a style in mind or not. If the cartographers are given more free reign on their creative side then you get more interest and that can drive the price down a bit. There are a lot of really good map-makers on this site though. I am amazed by some of their works, and even those which I see and think "I could do that" I often find myself attempting and re-evaluating to "what was I thinking? I can't do that!".  :Shocked: 
There is a category, or sticky-post maybe, which goes into this in detail. I just don't have the link handy. A search should turn up plenty of hits though.

(Btw, I recently uploaded my first map effort here, it is still a work in progress.)

All the best, niekell.

----------

