# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Building/Structure Mapping >  Inn for VTT

## torstan

... and a second map. I've recently been using the VTT Maptool for D&D games (yes another new face here dragged over from those boards) and I was designing a basic coaching inn for a bar room brawl. It was my first attempt at an indoor map and I did everything in Gimp - apart from the horses which are lifted from http://www.rpgmapshare.com.

Anyway, here is the ground floor:


and here is the 1st floor:


Again, C&C are very welcome.

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## RPMiller

Loved those maps when I saw them at RPTools.net, and still love 'em. One thing I would probably change, and this is just me, is the wood texture. There is just something about it that I don't like. It might be the color saturation or something else, but I would have to think about it some more.

I do like how you did the chandelier though. That clearly illustrates what is going on.

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## torstan

Yes, now that you point it out, the wood is a bit intense. If my laptop comes back from HP without its hard drive being formatted, hopefully I can recover the .xcf version and have a tinker. I could definitely add in some muck on the floor of the inn to break up the repetitve wood texture.

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## RPMiller

Excellent idea! Throw some hay in with the horses, dirt near the outside doors, various stains in the eating area and on the tables, some soot and burn marks around the fireplaces. Basically make it look more 'lived in'.

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## torstan

Anyone got any good gimp tips for dirtying up maps?

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## RPMiller

PhotoShop is my weapon so that's all I can offer.

For the soot, I would drop blackish-brown on a new layer above the floor using a noise filter with a high density right around the mouth of the fireplace then use the smudge tool to smudge it in a realistic way. Consider a broom or rags being used to 'clean up' the area.

Hay in the horse's area can be done with symbols, or a custom brush set to a straw color. There are actually a couple brushes in PS that would work, but I don't know if Gimp has such brushes, but considering the size of the community I'm sure someone has one that would work.

All the stains would just be transparent layers over the floor and table layers with a grey fill set to burn or dodge with an opacity of about 10 to 25%. Whatever looks good.

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## torstan

Ah, well any and all photoshop tips are welcome. I'm happy to fit them around Gimp and most stuff can be translated without too much difficulty.

The straw I've done already for the hayloft on the first floor (bottom right) and in the .xcf file I'd done it for the horses too.

As for the stains, they're good tips. I'll have a go at that. Thanks for the pointers.

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## Torq

Hi Torstan

Great map! Its good to see someone doing things at that sort of scale, that can ne used for VT play or even miniatures. This place is already full of the huge scale, world building megalomaniac types  :Smile: .

When it comes to dirtying up the place, there are some great scratch and scuff mark overlays over at the dundjinni forums that would look good. Gimp's good old "coffee stain fu" might also create quite a nice effect.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Torq

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## RPMiller

> When it comes to dirtying up the place, there are some great scratch and scuff mark overlays over at the dundjinni forums that would look good. Gimp's good old "coffee stain fu" might also create quite a nice effect.


Can you provide us with some links or what to search for on the Dundjinni forums, and also what does the "coffee stain fu" refer to, for us nonGimp users?

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## torstan

It's a script in gimp that adds coffee stains and other muck to a picture. I've never played with it, but that's an excellent idea. I'll definitely have a go with that when I get the .xcf file back!

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## RPMiller

Neat. I wonder if there is a similar filter for PS.

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## Torq

> Can you provide us with some links or what to search for on the Dundjinni forums


Try these links:

http://www.dunjinni.com/forums/forum...66&KW=overlays

and

http://www.dunjinni.com/forums/forum...04&KW=overlays (This one is by Heruca and is a bloody footprint overlay, but with a colour change it can also be a muddy foorprint overlay)

and

http://www.dunjinni.com/forums/forum...3&KW=scratches

and

http://www.dunjinni.com/forums/forum...6&KW=scratches


Torq

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## RPMiller

Awesome! Thanks Torq!

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## kalmarjan

> Neat. I wonder if there is a similar filter for PS.


There is, I believe available from alienskin:

Xenofex 2 stain filter

available here: http://www.alienskin.com/xx2/index.html

Unfortunately, it is a little pricey. If you can handle it, the same effect can be made with the layer styles/effects. If you want to know how let me know. Sorry to hijack this thread. 

Sandeman

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## RPMiller

> There is, I believe available from alienskin:
> 
> Xenofex 2 stain filter
> 
> available here: http://www.alienskin.com/xx2/index.html
> 
> Unfortunately, it is a little pricey. If you can handle it, the same effect can be made with the layer styles/effects. If you want to know how let me know. Sorry to hijack this thread. 
> 
> Sandeman


You know what? I think I have that already.  :Surprised:  I'll have to double check. Unfortunately it is on my home computer so can't yet.

Regardless I would be very interested in how you achieve similar effects. Go ahead and start a new thread and teach.  :Very Happy:

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## torstan

Okay, so I've had a bit of a play with the floor (I got my laptop back complete with the xcf file). I used some tips from a stained parchment tutorial (linked to by Kalmarjan  here) to add some random stains to the floor. I also pulled a lot of the colour out of it to make it look a little more worn. I haven't put all the set dressing into this one (that only comes when I put it into maptool - the players like to throw stuff about, so I import the furniture as separate objects). Anyway, comments on the floor stains and the new overall look will be much appreciated. Here it is:

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## RPMiller

That is a definite improvement! Well done. I still think some black soot staining around the front of the fireplaces and of course the strewn straw in the horse area would enhance it just a touch more, but overall it really has a much more lived in appearance. I think your players will be very pleased.

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## torstan

The straw's independent of the background which is why it isn't here - I've laid down a little in the top stall on the right as an example. Good point about the soot. I'll have a go at it.

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## RPMiller

Hm... why would the straw be independent? Do you really plan on moving it around?

As for the appearance of the straw at the scale you are using there, the straw at the top of the room is almost spot on perfect. The straw at the bottom is way too long and linear. That doesn't give me the impression of straw, but more like thin dowels or something.

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## torstan

No, not really, but I have created three different bundles of straw that can be dragged into maptool, rotated and resized to fill up the rooms. It's actually easier and quicker to do it there than in Gimp. You're right about the larger straw sections. I'll remember to shrink them before use in the adventure. Thanks for the C&C.

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## RPMiller

No problem. My thought on the straw was more about 'residual' straw that would be left all over the floor from constantly bringing it in and the horses knocking it around and such. The bales of hay though is definitely a good idea for filler and could serve as easy cover.

Will you be posting an "in game" pic? I would love to see it in action.

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## torstan

Now I've got the floor sorted out I'll post a screenshot of the dressed Inn from the maptoold campaign when I have it all put together. Now all we need is for trevor to get that 'export map' function built into maptool...

I'll post an in-game shot if anyone here is interested - otherwise I'll keep those posts to the maptool forums.

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## RPMiller

Yes, that would be a nice feature. Whether you post here or there I'll catch it.  :Smile:

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## RobA

Quick tip-

Head over to devientART and search for gimp grung brush (or click here :Smile: 

http://search.deviantart.com/?sectio...p+grunge+brush

then download a bunch.  Indespensible for adding wear, dirt and mess to things  :Smile: 

-Rob A>

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## torstan

Thanks. I'll have a go with those. I haven't really gone into custom gimp brushes yet, that should keep me out of trouble for a few days....

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## Eru

I really appreciate the chandelier. There's nothing like a good chandelier swing to liven up a bar brawl. Very thoughtful of you as a GM, and hopefully your players will take advantage of it....  :Wink: 

Cheers and very nice map!

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## torstan

Thanks. They had better use the chandelier, after I placed it there so carefully...

On a similar theme I thought this might be a good place to ask. I'm currently doing the set dressing on the Inn and I was trying to think of entertaining things to have in a bar fight and I'm drawing a bit of a blank. So if anybody has any particular favourite items for a bar fight, please suggest them!

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## torstan

Okay, I have dressed the Inn and thought I'd post some pictures. The set dressing is done by placing the objects (separate .png files) on to the base map in maptools. So I've exported some screenshots of the dressed inn with both player and GM views. Changes from previous posts: The floor got a bit muddier and the hearths now have some charcoal smudges. Thanks for the grunge brush link for those. All the objects are my own creation in gimp, except for the horses which were lifted from www.rpgmapshare.com and created by a guy called steelrat - who runs the site.

Anyway, here they are:

Players' and GM's views of the ground floor:


Player's and GM's views of the first floor:


Any further C&C appreciated, though these are pretty well done now. All that is left is to add in the other patrons and have a full on bar fight!

If anyone wants to use these, feel free. I can easily create a version with all the set dressing but without the maptool shading for ease of use. Let me know if this would be helpful.

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## Eru

Man, those are some SWEET maps.

Can I ask you to post them on Eruvian.com along with the gaming content (e.g. characters, encounter details, traps, treasure, etc.)? I'm sure the community there would greatly value this inn as a locale, and probably want to incorporate them into at least one of the settings that are being collaboratively built. Everything on Eruvian is published in both GM-only and player views, so the fact you've got both maps is just perfect.

Work of this quality must be shared with the world! Thanks!

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## torstan

Thanks. It was fun to build it and I learned a lot. I'll check out Eruvian.

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## RPMiller

Make sure to put in a shout out for MapTool.  :Wink:

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## torstan

Always. It's the least I can do to support it. These maps would never have got made if it weren't for maptool.

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## lobsternooberg

check this out

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## darelf

Ok, I wanted to get really good at Sketchup, so I took your two-story plans and have started making a model of it.  I haven't completed it yet, but here are a couple of stills to show the progess...   a lot of mistakes were made and backed out because I'm just not used to how the program works yet.  But I've learned quite a bit from this little excercise.

The first shot is from the front... only the 1st story showing, but you can at least see the spiral stairs... those took me a while to figure out, and they float magically because I'm too lazy to fully model them...

The second shot is from the back pointed towards the front door so you can see over the balcony.  There's no roof yet.  You'll note that I haven't added the second story door, since I made it smaller than the other doors.

If it matters, all the stone walls are 1' thick ( 6" on each side of the imaginary grid line )  The wooden walls are either 6" or 3" thick depending.  I used a LOT of interpretation on a lot of these items.  ( I really need to model the chandelier as well.... )

Oh and I haven't added all the interior doors or the "gates" ( I assume those are gates for the "courtyard"? )

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## torstan

That's brilliant! Thanks a lot for taking that on, it looks great. I'll be very happy to see how this turns out. This is going to be the most comprehensively mapped Inn ever!

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## darelf

As promised, here it is with roof and doors.  These are external shots.  If anyone has great art skills, the logo/sign for the Inn would be great!!  I can paste any image file as a texture on a cool wooden sign for the front.  ( Just make sure it has a transparent background, so the wood will show through )

I still need to add the fireplaces and the chandelier, so when I get those done I'll post internal shots for that.

Question, Do you imagine a stone/brick chimney, or more of a renaissance metal one?

Also, I assume the chandelier is a converted wagon wheel?

Oh.. beds.  I also need to add the beds... this model is getting pretty complex....

Is there a name for this inn?

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## torstan

It has doubled as the Hart's Desire and Inn of the Leaping Hart before now. I'm happy with those, or we could go with something more directly related to the site - Guildhome or Mapmaker's Rest for example.

A note on the model, the front windows that flank the door go up two stories to get as much natural light into the Common Room as possible.

I thought stone chimneys rather than metal - definitely more a mediaeval Inn than a rennaissance one.

You make the sign, I'll draw the sign image - do you just need a png? Do you want the colours semi transparent to show a wood texture through the paint? I'll knock up a sign when we settle on a name.

the chandelier is actually just a basic wooden construction rather than a wagon wheel as the wagon would need 10 foot tall wheels if it was! My vague thought was a wheel of the style of the chandelier that gets dropped on the cardinal's men early on in the Three Musketeers (Disney version with Charlie Sheen et al). It was from memory though, so it wasn't particularly carefully worked out!

Thanks again for the work on this - it's coming along nicely!

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## darelf

Ah, ok.  I guess I didn't notice that the windows went up two stories...

I can set the opacity on the sign image later.  Just a png with a transparent background would be fine.

I think I'm liking the whole "collaborative" thing....

edit:

I just noticed that there is a structural problem with the front windows.  In order for the windows to extend upwards, it would compromise the flooring for the balcony.  I assume in medieval architecture this would be a problem.  I may be wrong.  I'll think on it, but if you have any thoughts, let me know....

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## jfrazierjr

> Ah, ok.  I guess I didn't notice that the windows went up two stories...
> 
> I can set the opacity on the sign image later.  Just a png with a transparent background would be fine.
> 
> I think I'm liking the whole "collaborative" thing....
> 
> edit:
> 
> I just noticed that there is a structural problem with the front windows.  In order for the windows to extend upwards, it would compromise the flooring for the balcony.  I assume in medieval architecture this would be a problem.  I may be wrong.  I'll think on it, but if you have any thoughts, let me know....



I gave you some rep for this.   btw, I have played with Sketch-Up, but not really being an artist, I can't really get anything done worth nothing.   How large are the files when you save them?   I was wondering if anyone has started gathering fantasy (or sci-fi or modern) buildings/towns/locations into making a modular world view that could be used at the gaming table as a quick "walk through"  I know I have seen some amazing screenshots someone posted over on EN World where a guy built a whole dungeon or dwarven type complex (with like a 500 foot stairway even.) 

Joe

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## torstan

Yep, I noticed that. On the original plan that window was a little further to the west and so pulled away from the balcony a little. You're probably still right though - it would cause a problem for the rafters holding up the first floor. Perhaps just another pair of windows one floor higher then? The wall looks very bare otherwise.

I have to say that I am enjoying the collaborative aspect of it - I draw a 2D map and then someone else comes along and does all the hard work! I'll put together a transparent png for the sign but it might be a couple of days before I get it up due to other things. I'll stick to a standard Hart.

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## darelf

> I gave you some rep for this.   btw, I have played with Sketch-Up, but not really being an artist, I can't really get anything done worth nothing.   How large are the files when you save them?   I was wondering if anyone has started gathering fantasy (or sci-fi or modern) buildings/towns/locations into making a modular world view that could be used at the gaming table as a quick "walk through"  I know I have seen some amazing screenshots someone posted over on EN World where a guy built a whole dungeon or dwarven type complex (with like a 500 foot stairway even.) 
> 
> Joe


Someone did an "instant town" somewhere.

This inn that you see, with all it's detailed components ( I modelled everything, including the chairs, barstools, etc. ) is about 10 mb.

I have an itch to create a series of 5'x5' components for dungeon mapping.  It is very simple to layout components in Sketchup, so it would be usable as a quick-n-dirty dungeon map for use in game.  Similar to the physical dungeon tiles that WOTC puts out, but of course on screen, which is much cooler.

I have a nice setup in my living room where I have an HDTV over the fireplace, so I can display high res graphics that can be seen by everyone during gaming....

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## jfrazierjr

> Someone did an "instant town" somewhere.
> 
> This inn that you see, with all it's detailed components ( I modelled everything, including the chairs, barstools, etc. ) is about 10 mb.
> 
> I have an itch to create a series of 5'x5' components for dungeon mapping.  It is very simple to layout components in Sketchup, so it would be usable as a quick-n-dirty dungeon map for use in game.  Similar to the physical dungeon tiles that WOTC puts out, but of course on screen, which is much cooler.
> 
> I have a nice setup in my living room where I have an HDTV over the fireplace, so I can display high res graphics that can be seen by everyone during gaming....


Cool.   I would still want to use something like Maptool for the actual tactical part of it when running a battle, but 3D is really nice to set a stage so to speak (though you probably could us sketch up as a VTT without much difficulty if you can "build it").  Especially if you really want to convey height, which is something you cannot really do super well in a flat over head image.  

Like you, I love the collaborative elements.  For me, I fairly well suck at anything resembling artistic ability, but do pretty well with design philosophy and plot storming.  I have good ideas about visual elements, but  am horrible at the actual implementation in most cases.  

I will be looking forward to seeing what you come up with.   I would really like to see some more Sketch Up work here.

Joe

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## torstan

Okay, I had a spare half hour, so here's a sign. It's not done yet, but this should get you started.

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## torstan

Oh, and as for the 3D stuff. There was some chat about maptool moving to a 3D graphics engine (note - not actually saying it will be 3D) for the 2.0 line. This started discussion about the lack for 3D models for dungeon design compared to the amount of 2D material out there. You seem to have some interesting ideas on that. Might be worth dropping in. The conversation is at the end of the current dev thread on 1.3.b32. I guess DDI whet everyone's appetites for 3D

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## darelf

I should be finishing some documentation, but no...

Here's a first draft of the sign:

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## RPMiller

I think you should be able to see the wood texture through the image more. Also, this would look rockin' on a suspended sign rather than on a pole.

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## torstan

I agree about the colours. Maybe the best plan is to use a greyscale image of the wood texture to bump map the colours so that it looks like they are opaque colours painted on to rough wood. Hmmm, could you post a high res shot of the blank sign, both sides? I'll mess with the sign a bit more. That lettering is too inconspicuous and the font is wrong. Any suggestions for a nice font for this?

Also, darelf - there's a lot of chat going on over on the maptool forum about 3D stuff. I'm sure it won't be supporting sketchup any time soon but I'd like top post a couple of these screenshots over there nonetheless if you wouldn't mind?

RPMiller - I agree about the suspended sign. That would look good.

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## darelf

Sorry, I've been busy.  Yes, go ahead and use whatever.  If not otherwise mentioned, all this Inn is the same license as your original VTT Inn images.

Yeah, I like the idea of a suspended sign.  I'll try to knock one out today.

I wanted to get an "embellished" top where it has a nice curve with the little round bit in the middle... I don't know the terms for these things, but I'll post a picture of it once I get it together.

Definitely something thicker for the font...  I like Caslon Antique if you have a bold version of that.  ( I'm not sure if the original Caslon even had a bold version... )

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## darelf

Here's a hanging no-image version of the sign.  That way if you want more transparency or whatever, you can adjust.

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## torstan

Thanks. I'll have a play with that and see what I can come up with.

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## jfrazierjr

> I agree about the colours. Maybe the best plan is to use a greyscale image of the wood texture to bump map the colours so that it looks like they are opaque colours painted on to rough wood. Hmmm, could you post a high res shot of the blank sign, both sides? I'll mess with the sign a bit more. That lettering is too inconspicuous and the font is wrong. Any suggestions for a nice font for this?


Bah... you don't need no stinkin font!  Just zoom in and hand letter it to give it that hand painted look.  Granted, that's much easier said than done if you don't have a tablet...

Joe

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## torstan

:Smile: 

Well I do have a tablet - just not in the same country as me right now. However my hand writing is fairly appalling. I've done a bit of hand-lettering in my time and it takes forever if it is to look half decent. I'll stick to fonts myself...

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## jfrazierjr

> Well I do have a tablet - just not in the same country as me right now. However my hand writing is fairly appalling. I've done a bit of hand-lettering in my time and it takes forever if it is to look half decent. I'll stick to fonts myself...



heh.... now I have an image stuck in my head for a sign of a small tavern somewhere with a crude painting(of an Orc of course) and the words "Da Ragin Ork" above.

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## torstan

Someone's showing a past Games Workshop addiction  :Smile: 

No tablet so can't do that idea justice right now, but I like it.

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## jfrazierjr

> Someone's showing a past Games Workshop addiction 
> 
> No tablet so can't do that idea justice right now, but I like it.


Nope.  I never could really get into the time and artistry required to be a real power war gamer.    It's just that my mind tends to wander more toward story telling and the thought of a backwater(perhaps dockside in a small town in the "rough" part of town) tavern run by an Orc with attitude and bad artistic skills (to mimic my own!) made me chuckle.....


Joe

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## torstan

Here's a couple of different adaptations of the Stag's head to make it look more connected to the sign.

This one uses soft-light layer blending to get the shadows in:


and here's it on the sign:


This one uses the sign (shunted into greyscale and with adjusted levels) as a bump map:


and here's it on the sign:


I'm wondering about using gothic lettering for the name - in a similar style to a lot of English pubs. I also wondered about putting a coloured background behind the stag - say a dark (British Racing) green background - to make it pop.

Here's a quic mock up:

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## torstan

.... and here it is with a slightly darker background on the full sign image.



Any ideas for further embellishments? It's still looking a bit bare.

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## RPMiller

The name could go to the right og the head to fill in the blank space.

Maybe add a cup hanging off the end of the antler?

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## darelf

Yeah, I like that a lot.

Just letter the name on the top.  The green does give it a very pub-like quality, although is that too much of an anachronism?  Maybe not.  I do like it though.

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## torstan

Could you post the texture that you skinned the sign with, or failing that, a shot that is 100% straight on? The one you posted is slightly skewed, which means that the bump mapping and shading on the sign image won't quite line up with the wood texture on the sign when you apply the image.

I'm currently sans tablet at the moment - hence not getting this finished, but I'll get a final version up this weekend.

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## jfrazierjr

> Could you post the texture that you skinned the sign with, or failing that, a shot that is 100% straight on? The one you posted is slightly skewed, which means that the bump mapping and shading on the sign image won't quite line up with the wood texture on the sign when you apply the image.
> 
> I'm currently sans tablet at the moment - hence not getting this finished, but I'll get a final version up this weekend.


Where are you Torstan that you are without your tablet?  

Joe

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## torstan

Visiting Hamburg for 4 days to get a paper moved on with some collaborators at the theory department of DESY. I only came with carry on, and even though my tablet is titchy, I needed a couple of work books more. So no tablet drawing for me until the weekend.

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## jfrazierjr

> Visiting Hamburg for 4 days to get a paper moved on with some collaborators at the theory department of DESY. I only came with carry on, and even though my tablet is titchy, I needed a couple of work books more. So no tablet drawing for me until the weekend.


What do you do Torstan?  Your not the guy that's in the "blow up the whole freaking world" project are you?

Joe

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## torstan

No, no, theoretical particle physicists never blow the world up - that's the experimental particle physicists job  :Smile:

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## jfrazierjr

> No, no, theoretical particle physicists never blow the world up - that's the experimental particle physicists job




Whew... I feel so relieved.    Glad to know your not going to be directly involved in the whole matter/antimatter thingy being built in Switzerland(is that right?)   Of course, even if your not part of it and they actually do blow up the world, it won't really matter if you were involved or not, cause I won't be here you rib you about it.

Joe

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## torstan

To avoid threadjacking I'll move this conversation over into the General discussion forums. But the short answer is yes, I am involved with the proton-proton collider being built under the Swiss French border. Thankfully, it will not destroy the universe, or even the earth.

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## RPMiller

At the risk of thread jacking, hehehe... That's what you keep telling us. What are you trying to hide?!?  :Wink: 


Yes, I'm just kidding and know that they aren't going to destroy anything... until 2012.  :Wink:   :Laughing: 

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread discussion.

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## delgondahntelius

December 21, 2012 that is

 :Smile:

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## RPMiller

Obviously you have the same sources I do.  :Wink:

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## delgondahntelius

Yes... my magic 8-ball... 

LOL

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## RPMiller

Mine was the back of a fortune cookie

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## delgondahntelius

or perhaps Miss (Madam) Cleo on your nearest 900 hotline for your daily fortune...

perhaps this horse has been beaten enough now  :Very Happy:  lol

(i got pages of this stuff tho.. i can go on forever)

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## Midgardsormr

I might as well admit that these ideas are going into my notebook for my next modern horror game.  A cataclysm is coming, and the world _has_ been warned, but who believes the fortune cookies or the mechanical gypsy at the carnival?

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## delgondahntelius

first rule of fight club ... I like it.... any superhero that can rip tanks in half and use a vehicle as punching gloves is always a winner in my book  :Very Happy:

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## darelf

Wow...  I stay away from the IntarWebs for a weekend and all hell breaks loose...

Uh.. Let's see, I will post the texture for the wood.  I believe that was the one thing I hadn't done yet....

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## torstan

Great. I'll get on to that this evening.

I know what you mean. You give these people a small rumour about a black hole eating the earth and they go off derailing perfectly respectable threads left right and centre...  :Smile:

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## delgondahntelius

Black holes.... eating the earth.... So,you've heard of my ex-wife as well....

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## darelf

> Black holes.... eating the earth.... So,you've heard of my ex-wife as well....


You know, I just don't visit this board often enough...  :Wink:

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## torstan

Sorry, rather dropped the ball on this one.

Here's a finished png for the sign:



... and the text - in true ye olde English pub style:



... and a mock up of the final sign with these laid on top:

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