# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > General and Miscellaneous Mapping >  Lands of Fagacea

## aquarits

Lands of Fagacea will be my first map, but i just started to draw and got some doubts that is making me stop and not think it nice.
As soon i get new solutions i will updating here about this map.

First big change in the shape. The area north from Tristania got a connection with the North Pole. Wanted get a "epic" ship cross between the ice for one of the Larcenia Expeditions getting oil and sending to Valdorn. Trying to get better visual after find a new style to finish shape  forms.



Historic of the thread 

Let me show my problens:
I am using Photoshop for this map.

[CHANGED]The Map (Updated nov, 26, 2112)






> [FIXED]Resolution:
> nov, 26: Still dont know how to define the resolution, my map got so huge!
> I followed the instructions in http://www.cartographersguild.com/tutorials-how/2596-[award-winner]-bitmapped-images-technical-side-things-explained.html and used 1280x 1024 in beggin, but after the progress map got much more bigger.
> Now i dont know if this map need to follow a standard or something 
> So i lost the resolution of all my brushes  making me use they as 30~45 px


Followed to create a big map using as reference of small maps of 2400x1800 px, can edit the big map with new dimensions for a more or less detailed map

Getting better resolution and reducing the File size



> http://www.cartographersguild.com/ho...esolution.html





> [FIXED]Bigger is in the original size, after scanner and make the vectors, and the small is the 30 px
> Is it normal? i am felling something wrong and need orientation


I Created a standard re-drawing my icons following a standard of dimensions, like using 20 px for trees, 35 for towns and montains. Drawing with small dimensions help to not lost the resolution when i use it bigger.




> [ABORTED]The other question is about brushes, i tried find something it here, but i gues it is so specific that is making hard to find one thread saying about. I will show my montains, looks like one is one montain over the other and not one covering the other. I want that one montain hide the lines of the other montain, is it possible?


I saw some ppl using this feature in GIMP very well but still not found a way in Photoshop, so i give up to try and started use it manualy

thank you

Next Steps:

[Done] 


> Looks good! ItS  also Easy to see where the maps connect, its realy well done. If you use non repeating brushes, it would make the map even better.


[Done] 


> That distortion and the graticules (the grids) look really wonky,  Given the symbol style of the map, I think you should ditch the graticule entirely as it doesn't mesh well with that style.  If you really want it, then it really does require some knowledge of projections and how maps represent a globe in order to get it to come out right.  The details depend on where on the planet the map is, how big it is, and the purpose of the map.


[Done] 


> The crumpled paper texture seems a bit excessive.  Likewise the stone texture on the border.  If you are aiming for something that looks like a map made "in character"  you have to think about how and why the fictional cartographer would get the effects in question.  Drop shadows imply that the map incorporates elements that hover over top of the rest of the map, which is odd to say the least.  Relief in general is something you should think about carefully.





> The cartouche is a bit hard to read.  The purple text doesn't contrast very well with the grey textured background.


[Done] Fix the rivers 


> I got some topography magazines to help me learn more, read some and made a basic sketch following the tuto that u recommended.http://www.cartographersguild.com/tu...ght-place.html
> and that is wut i got:
> Attachment 50877


[Done] Getting lines via Off set to do customized coast lines or to expand some elements



> http://www.cartographersguild.com/ho...photoshop.html


[Done] Getting customizer border lines, using dashed lines of different types



> http://www.cartographersguild.com/ho...photoshop.html



--> FINISHED AREAS <--
Revised Maps

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## aquarits

This thread is in the right secction?

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## arsheesh

Well unfortunately I don't have much experience with this technique and so can't really offer you advice on it.  However, as to the section, you would probably do better to place this in the "How do I" section.  

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## gbsilverio

I can't talk too much about the technical resolution side, seeing as I'm hardly an expert. About the map itself, I think you're off to a good start! I like the general shape of the landmasses, and the icons for the towns, trees, etc. look quite nice in my opinion. I look forward to see what you come up with next, keep it up!

Cheers!

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## aquarits

Ok, i am afraid about the resolution coz maps ins looking so bigger, and thinking that it will make everthing small when u see the whole map.
About the brushes i will try draw small and big groups of the sets, like a group of montains and trees and it will made a low frequence of covering. Problem is that i only can scanner my drawings monday in my jod  :Wink:  and holydays in Brazil  :Cool:

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## aquarits

Ok just finished the north side and WOW!!  How is hard to make a nice coast line... i have a lots to improve.

I need edit point by point of my patch? Or have a simple way to do it?

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## aquarits

Just started to work in the realm of Tristania

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## aquarits

HELP!  :Very Happy: 
I am in the point that i need some help and advices. After i finish all the shape, map got HUGE. I still drawing, and probly will finish with this resolution, in the end i will get a detailed map of the entire world.
May i let to the end to change the resolution and rebuild the map with less details?

I fell the progress of the lines and the draw, i am very happy with all work  :Smile:  i am waitting for some comments.
Attachment 50248*Attachment 50249*Attachment 50250*Attachment 50251

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## Kaiyla Bradford

Very beautifully done ^.^

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## jbgibson

That is looking really good.   As for the resolution -- how will you use the map?  If it is to be printed out, what size paper ?

When you say it got bigger, do you mean the dimensions, so many pixels by so many pixels, or do you mean the size of your PS file on disk?

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## aquarits

yes, basicaly 2 points JB
The dimension, i printed in a A1 format and not satisfacted with the resolution. I will finish all the shape and the city positions for now. After it will follow 2 steps if i not get a help before  :Smile:  :Idea: 
1- Will do small maps and detailed of each region, so i can re-draw my "icons" like town and montains with a better quality.
2- will reformat the size and make a general map, with the new icons i can just show the kingdowns and the frontiers

Now u said something that is causing me problens, the size of the file, when i am running PS it is like 12 gb... is it right? :Question: 

And ty Kaila, it makes me keep doing  :Very Happy:

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## jbgibson

12 gb ... Yikes, that's large.  But I am not a PS user myself, so I have no clue if 12gb is unusual.  Let's ask that as a separate question - in a thread dedicated to that issue alone.

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## aquarits

yeah, saved it is ~300mb

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## amberroberts09

The map is very clean and resolution is really good!!!

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## aquarits

true? the dimensions arent big?

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## waldronate

When you say 12GB, is that how much virtual memory Photoshop is using? Photoshop will happily eat up to some percentage of your physical RAM (it's under Edit>>Preferences :Razz: erformance) as you add layers and move things about. I wouldn't be terribly surprised at this memory usage if you're using lots of dynamic effects and have a whole lot of undo states stored.

 300MB on disk means that Photoshop will probably be using 4 to 20 times that amount of memory for its internal buffers and then more again for undo states. If it's less than your physical RAM you probably won't see too much of a slowdown.

Flattening similar layers (like mountains) might help with this memory usage a bit, but you'll lose the one-layer-per-object editing that you might have become accustomed to.

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## Schwarzkreuz

You can simply lower that virtual memory by setting the Protocol limits in the preferences to 5 or less. Sure that makes hard to undo things but save your GBs.
Some of my maps reach about 20GB space, so well I have an extra 100GB hightspeed harddrive only for processing of Photoshop.

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## waldronate

> Some of my maps reach about 20GB space, so well I have an extra 100GB hightspeed harddrive only for processing of Photoshop.


I was lazier and just put 32GB in the machine. It's about the same speed as a hard dive these days, but the newer motherboard and everything else to support that much memory was a wee bit more than than.

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## aquarits

Right i did it wal, and got it running at 6gb >.<
probly using a lots of layers with effect, specialy Texts. now my file got 150mb when saved, helpd a lots.

Follow now my first idea wut to do with the map, is just a idea, since i am re-draing my montais, citys, castles...

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## aquarits

Ok, guess that is all. Now just need details all map and guess it will looks like repetitive  :Very Happy:  may i call it finished?

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## Schwarzkreuz

Looks good! ItS  also Easy to see where the maps connect, its realy well done. If you use non repeating brushes, it would make the map even better.

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## arsheesh

Looks good to me!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## aquarits

Thank you for the feed back Schwar!!! I appreciate it!!  :Wink: 

Guess it will be the next step or honestly  :Razz:  i used the same brush, coz i will try use diferent ones for each regions to try pass the felling of different environments. i have to confess that i tried use a lots of brushes but not worked well  :Surprised:   :Surprised:

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## Schwarzkreuz

Do you have an graphic tablet?
I did also upload lots of brushes in Elements section, maybe there are some interesting for you.

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## aquarits

What is a Graphic Tablet? Is something like this?


Yes i know ur brushes. I use one of your maps as my inspiration and ur brushes as reference to work, but u know, i need to do it and give my personal touch, so ur comment really helped me to think better and try to improve my map.

Since are u here, i want to ask a question that i posted in beggin of this thread, i still dunno how to use brushes like one olerlapping other, my bushes do not hide the others, like this:


I want to know how do this (is a image that i found in a google seach)


Or i have to draw small sets of montains and get some diferent brushes to get this effect of perspective?

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## aquarits

Ok, at last i finished one realm, Fagacea, but guess i made a mistake. Easy to fix but guess it can change a lots of things.

The scale and the size of this realm... it became GIANT!!! is like 8,4k Km² of all place not counting the water terrain, if i do a better check, guess it is not lower then 7k Km².
I used to check the distances using "days" as reference, and it gave that dimension. The population is cool, like 50k ppl checking all towns and workstations.
I am trying to find a thread talking about this doubt coz i want to follow real proportions, if someone knows, tell me in case that i not find some.

Now i go to the next kingdom in north of this area.

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## Schwarzkreuz

Hi I did a small Tutorial for you.

Also, a graphic tablet is an electric tool to draw directly into Photoshop or whatever u use for drawing your map.

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## aquarits

AHHHHHHHH MAN!!! So many tools!!!
Thank You a lots for this... i was trying to find it for ages!!! Was thinking in a brush configuration!
It Means that i have to redraw everthing hahahah

Just to finishing this, i have to let the file with the montains openned to keep clonning in my working file?
Man, guess u have to publish this tuto in somewhere. i tryied to find something like it for a long time here.

and nope, i dont have a graphic tablet, i am still scanning or getting photos to can draon my sckeths

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## Schwarzkreuz

I just have the Mountains on a layer inside the open file I am working with. and clone it from there. If they are in my way I just push them away in another corner I dont need. Like in my sample left the elements, right the Mountain clusters.

If you work from a scan, as i do mostly, you should try to turn all mountains in one swap to a big brush, than brush them to an empty layer, like this you have a clean drawing layer without any white and can start my tutorial, its much faster than trying to erase all white surrounding the drawing.

Have fun.

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## Hai-Etlik

A few criticisms:

That distortion and the graticules (the grids) look really wonky,  Given the symbol style of the map, I think you should ditch the graticule entirely as it doesn't mesh well with that style.  If you really want it, then it really does require some knowledge of projections and how maps represent a globe in order to get it to come out right.  The details depend on where on the planet the map is, how big it is, and the purpose of the map.

The crumpled paper texture seems a bit excessive.  Likewise the stone texture on the border.  If you are aiming for something that looks like a map made "in character"  you have to think about how and why the fictional cartographer would get the effects in question.  Drop shadows imply that the map incorporates elements that hover over top of the rest of the map, which is odd to say the least.  Relief in general is something you should think about carefully.

If you are just after a pretty picture and don't care about keeping it in character, you still might want to tone the effects down, particularly the relief and textures.  They are a bit distractingly over-prominent.  That sort of rough stone texture you use for the border is also a bit repetitive.  If you want to stick with that look, it might be worth finding a larger texture to hide the repetition more.

The cartouche is a bit hard to read.  The purple text doesn't contrast very well with the grey textured background.

Finally, it would be a good idea to make a more diverse symbol set to try to disguise the repetition of the symbols.  I usually go with 7 to 12 variations on a symbol in my symbol sets.

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## aquarits

Thank you for the observations Hai, i appreciated it and i want to discuss about**:




> That distortion and the graticules (the grids) look really wonky, Given the symbol style of the map, I think you should ditch the graticule entirely as it doesn't mesh well with that style. If you really want it, then it really does require some knowledge of projections and how maps represent a globe in order to get it to come out right. The details depend on where on the planet the map is, how big it is, and the purpose of the map.


I will use this map in a game, so i need the grids to help in a fast check of the scales to make easy calculate the distances btw towns and places. I got wut u said, but dunno wut to do  :Frown: 
Sinse i am using this grids in the whole map, maybe i can name each grid with numbers to say wut angle the detailed maps are. I made a sheet with standards for every region, some each map will get a inclination next to the real inclination of the globe, like this:



If u have some examples about grids i will appreciate the ideas.

I liked so much the crumpled paper  :Frown:  may i let it with less evidence?




> If you are just after a pretty picture and don't care about keeping it in character, you still might want to tone the effects down, particularly the relief and textures. They are a bit distractingly over-prominent. That sort of rough stone texture you use for the border is also a bit repetitive. If you want to stick with that look, it might be worth finding a larger texture to hide the repetition more.
> 
> The cartouche is a bit hard to read. The purple text doesn't contrast very well with the grey textured background.


U right about the borders, i just have no idea how to do one, it seems ugly i know and i will try improve it and the legend.




> Finally, it would be a good idea to make a more diverse symbol set to try to disguise the repetition of the symbols. I usually go with 7 to 12 variations on a symbol in my symbol sets


If here u are talking about Mountains and trees, i am already working in it. Schwarzkreuz helped me a lots spending time to share his tutorial about the Mountains that i loved. But guess first i will finish the areas before start change, or i will not fell the progress.

Again, i say thank you for the comments about the map.

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## aquarits

its looks cool when u finish a entire area  :Very Happy: 
Now need to get my own Kingdoms flags, thos ones i got searching in google long time ago.

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## Hai-Etlik

> Thank you for the observations Hai, i appreciated it and i want to discuss about**:
> 
> 
> 
> I will use this map in a game, so i need the grids to help in a fast check of the scales to make easy calculate the distances btw towns and places. I got wut u said, but dunno wut to do 
> Sinse i am using this grids in the whole map, maybe i can name each grid with numbers to say wut angle the detailed maps are. I made a sheet with standards for every region, some each map will get a inclination next to the real inclination of the globe, like this:


If the map is acting as a game board then my point about removing the grid doesn't really apply.  I'd still suggest dropping that odd looking warping effect though as it really doesn't make sense.






> If u have some examples about grids i will appreciate the ideas.


Well, the "grids" on real maps are a way of representing a coordinate system and are called "graticules".  Most commonly the coordinate system is latitude and longitude, but sometimes another one like UTM is used.  Modern street maps use a locator grid, often with alphanumeric coordinates but that's a fairly specific thing.

If you're using it for a game, then I'd think the mechanics of the game would dictate the grid used.  If you want a real life lat-lon graticule, then it actually depends on where the map is, and what it's for.  For a reasonable lat-lon graticule for a small area, you can use this tutorial to come up with something reasonable.




> I liked so much the crumpled paper  may i let it with less evidence?


They are your maps so you can do as you wish.  I was just giving my opinion. I think outright crumpling looks off as a hand drawn map is something that is fairly valuable and is going to be taken care of.  Texture from the paper (or whatever it's drawn on) is a fine idea, but you might want to think about what that texture implies about the map and pick the right one.  Again it's your map so if you like the crumpled look anyway, go with it.





> U right about the borders, i just have no idea how to do one, it seems ugly i know and i will try improve it and the legend.


Well, think about how the rest of the map was drawn, and how that might be applied to drawing a border.  A simple line or double line works just fine, or you can apply a simple drawn pattern between two lines.  Checked borders are common and usually act as a supplement to the graticule (which means they need to line up)  You can also make them strictly decorative, but it doesn't look very good in combination with a grid unless they are aligned.

Here's one of my maps that has a checked border aligned with a graticule to demonstrate:

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## aquarits

ty Hai i appreciate everything, i liked your tutorial and know exactly what i need to do. But guess now i need finish this thang before, i really want to see how it will be done. I included your observations in my "New Tasks" to be my next step to improve the map.
About the borders i want something more likely a photo frame, that is why i don't want use only thos borders. Guess i will use both, like a map in the frame or i will only let it like a picture... still thinking  :Evil:

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## jbgibson

aquarits --
I like the look you have going!  Another detail that could seriously improve the believability though is closer attention to river behavior.  Take a look at Redrobes' excellent tutorial on Getting Your Rivers In The Right Place - it's stickied close to the top of the Tutorial/ How-to forum.  The one flaw I see in your hydrology is that rivers should only join as they flow downhill, not split.   Sure, there are river deltas and minor midstream islands, but in general, there's not going to be any major division of flow ,like you show in several places.  Think of lakes as just a wide place in a river - you'll never get two outflows.   Multiple inflowing rivers; sure, but if there ever were two points on a lakeshore that were equally the lowest, one would pretty quickly erode faster and become the only lowest point, and the other potential outlet would be dry.   Maybe in times of extreme flood you would get a second point overflowing, but within hours or days that situation would go back to normal.

You wouldn't have to tweak much to get your rulebreaking rivers to behave - see my crude markup:



The red would be the least likely place for a river to flow (though you could break it in other places about as well), and the green bits show plausible upper ends for both the lakeward and seaward flows.  In essence, you're reversing your depicted flow for the "second outlet" of that lake, making it a believable second inlet.  The purple route could be a canal if your technology level would permit it, or would be a portage route for people and goods that otherwise travelled along the (now two separate) rivers.

Another way to state the water-flows-downhill rule is that a river can't flow from one point on an ocean to another.  You don't have any such 'bridge routes' but some people draw them in without thinking.  All kinds of explorers of the American West hunted for a water route past the continental divide, which they probably should have known better than - you won't see a lake on a ridgetop that drains both ways.   Okay, there's a few such *very rare* situations, mostly marshy areas instead of outright lakes, but they're at such a tiny-tributary level of stream flow that it's useless to think of them as navigable routes.

Again, I love the overall map - it looks great.  Like Hai-Etlik says, if it's distinctly a game map, then you could just skip trying to make your grid work as a graticule (related to latitude-longitude lines)  and let it be a simple locator grid specific to each view.  Leaving it rectangular instead of hexes does keep your map looking a bit more in-character and less like a game board.   Calling it units of days of travel makes it obviously approximate (once the user thinks about walking vs. horseback vs. shipborne travel) and avoids the complication that distortion makes a distance key a lie over a broad-area map.

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## aquarits

Right JB, I am just passing here to put the other continent, is like the first of the year!
I am checking Redrobes tuto right now and analyzing exactly wut u said and will come here to say after this

ty for spend ur time analyzing my map, i am really grateful for it!
All other detailed areas are in my album.

Happy new year for all!

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## aquarits

WOW JB, I just got one thing after your post: FUN!!!!
Yes, got a terrific night checking my map, was very cool, have a lots of things to fix. Unfortunately guess i cant do it now, i really want to finish the first idea of the map and thn start to fix.
I got some topography magazines to help me learn more, read some and made a basic sketch following the tuto that u recommended.http://www.cartographersguild.com/tu...ght-place.html

and that is wut i got:


thank you very much i will include it in my next tasks to finish my map. All this experience made me remember wut Korash said in my "Welcome Post"




> Don't forget that every one here, regardless of current ability and skills, started at the very beginning of the Mapping Journey. Make no mistake....it IS a journey, but it is one well worth it and best done with eyes open in wonder at all the places you end up going.

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## aquarits

Right, doing all things in same time  :Very Happy:  impossible get bored!

JB and Hai need that you 2 check if gratitudes are right. I made a second grid with scales of 25 mm so i can keep controlling the size of my planet, i still need to work in 2 poles. Follow the pictures for checking, i i go back to details  :Razz:

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## aquarits

I got ready the 3 continents, now i am going to the poles.

So fun!  :Very Happy:

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## Schwarzkreuz

wow.... do you have any freetime next to mapping ;D `?

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## aquarits

not sure lol, i am addict  :Wink: 
Lets see till when i will keep doing ahhaha, honestly it is helping kill my time for my next 13 months  :Very Happy:

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## Hai-Etlik

> Right, doing all things in same time  impossible get bored!
> 
> JB and Hai need that you 2 check if gratitudes are right. I made a second grid with scales of 25 mm so i can keep controlling the size of my planet, i still need to work in 2 poles. Follow the pictures for checking, i i go back to details


I'm afraid that doesn't make sense unless the planet is quite oblate, which would mean it's rotating much faster than Earth.  Or you've got the cylindrical projection surface so large it's not touching the globe at all (which is bad)

An Equidistant Cylindrical map of a full globe should have an aspect ratio of 2:1 or less.  Also, it's not a good projection for final maps, of a full globe OR for a region.  It's mostly something you use as an intermediary step of for storing raw data before projecting it for a finished map.  The projection produces particularly unpleasant looking distortion by stretching things out horizontally near the poles.  That means if you want to use this projection, you have to draw that distortion into the map, otherwise it's the land on the globe that's distorted (which will be evident to cartographers who look at the map, and it will be obvious to you if you ever try to change the projection or put it on a globe in 3D.

Also, you can't measure distance on a global map except in certain specific conditions.  For instance, you can only measure distance on a Normal Equidistant Cylindrical map north-south, or if you stay fairly close to the standard parallels.  Projections that have a geometric "projection surface" will preserve distances where they have the projection surface close to the surface of the globe and will distort it where the two surfaces diverge.  So that's the Standard Parallels of Cylindrical and Conic projections, and the centre of Azimuthal projections.

That's why just zooming on on a global map doesn't make for good regional maps.  You need to use a regional projection suited to the particular region.  The sort of exception is that the Mercator projection can be used to get an OK regional map at large scales, and it works as a small scale global map for certain purposes (It used to be the standard "wall map" projection, even though it's not very good in that role)  At medium scales, Mercator really isn't a very good choice, except for navigation.

If you are using an appropriate regional projection, then your regional maps can be used to measure distance fairly accurately.  The smaller the extent, the less distortion there will be.  Unfortunately, this isn't something you can do with ordinary graphics software.

If you don't want to deal with all that, you can always just make your world flat.  That lets you use a flat map without any problem, although a lot of things we take for granted (the horizon, that north and south mean something and impact the climate, compasses and celestial navigation) depend on the earth being spherical so a flat world would be a bit odd to live on.

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## aquarits

You right about the oblate, was me, missing to say that i not including the poles in the map, coz it make the file big and hard to work. I use one file to define the shape using the 3D tools (sphere), and i transter the shape for other file, and i dont use the amount of memory to work. Following some adivices from "waldronate" in page 2.
Just now, reading what u said and working in the poles that i understood what you said about the grids/ gratitudes. Yes, maybe i can get real dimensions in my center, but when close to the poles, grids become close, making a wrong measure, or if i make it plane, i will get a bigger dimension btw 2 points that are distant.
But the question is,after i draw in a 3D sphere, when i make it plane, i dont get a deformation like u said in the Mercator Projection?
Like i read here, my poles and islands are much bigger then what i made in the original shape. Looks like this example:

When distorced in a Mercator Projection "Greenland takes as much space on the map as Africa, when in reality Africa's area is 14 times greater and Greenland's is comparable to Algeria's alone."

Mercator projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if the distocion is right, the scale that i used in my areas, will be right in a "flatled" pole? Coz i am thinking in just include my scales getting a projection, when i put it in the sphere. This is the final shape with the gratitudes and the floor levels. Still missing the elements, but almost finished.




For now ,guess i cant do all thos modifications, so i will finishing it getting my last level of the shape and fast will re-draw making all corrections like rivers and gratitudes, and yes, probly for next step i will not use the deformation  :Very Happy: 

ty Hai for all assintance, keep saying, i am learning a lots!

Off question: If i upload one file with the same name but with new modfications, i will auto update my files here in Cart Guild dir?

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## Hai-Etlik

OK, judging by the graticule on that version of the map, it's Equidistant Cylindrical, with standard parallels at 42.4 degrees.  

That is not a Mercator graticule so the distortion behaves differently. In Equidistant things get stretched out east-west (horizontally) as you near the poles, but distances remain constant north-south (vertically).  Mercator compensates for this by adding a north-south stretch equal to the east-west stretch.  So everything gets bigger as you near the poles, but it does so consistently and so it preserves angles. (in cartography speak, it's "Conformal").  If that doesn't make sense, think of it as preserving the shapes of things.  That's not exactly correct, but it's the easiest way of thinking about it.

Mercator has a rather odd property. It's stretching each parallel out to the width of the map, and then adding the same stretch to the height.  The poles are just single points though, so in a rough sense, stretching them out out to lines is infinite stretch, so there needs to be infinite vertical stretch, so the poles are infinitely far away from the equator.  In practice, you have to decide how much you want to cut off at the poles.

If you want your map to be in the Mercator projection, you need to use a different graticule.  The spacing of the parallels (horizontal lines) needs to increase as you move away from the equator. you can get a Mercator graticule here: http://www.cartographersguild.com/ma...-template.html  It spans from 85 S to 85 N.  But you can trim off the top and bottom if you want.

On the other hand, it's the only projection which lets you put a compass rose or straight rumb lines (the lines radiating from compasses on some maps) on a global map.  All other projections distort compass directions.

Equidistant Cylindrical is generally easier to transform.  For instance there's a handy little program called G.Projector that can take equidistant maps and project into just about anything you want, and you can easily wrap it around a globe in 3D graphics software.  The difficulty is that it's hard to draw in the first place because of the uneven distortion, and you have to reproject it into something else to get a decent map.

Mercator is easier to draw because the distortion is consistent.  You still need to be aware of it, but it's easier. You can also use it "as is" for a world map, and you can get away with zooming in on it to get regional maps, although it's still problematic. The downside is that there aren't any simple tools for re-projecting it like G.Projector.  You need to go through a more complicated process and use more advanced tools like QuantumGIS.  It's not actually that great a choice for a general reference map, but it's a bad choice that was _popular_, and it looks a lot better than Equidistant Cylindrical.

----------


## aquarits

Hai, I am Impressed! You are a chest of knowledge.
I dowlnoaded the GProjector and checked somethings, ofc not so specific, but just about my shape. 

Dunno how to explain right, so i will describe what i did.
I used a 3D software (Autodesk Inventor) creating my globe and draw my shape (draw and emboss the shape), after it i made a "flat" getting all my globe (elipse) in a plane. Checking the GProjector, i guess it is like a Orth projection, my shape already have the the grids with the same dimension that i got in the globe.
See image, that i have 25 mm in the center and the same 25 mm close to the pole. Is a very close dimension when i made the dimension in only one plane, is like if the software stretch the pole to my grid dimension, in this case 25 mm.



After it i tried 2 things, set my pole shape in ortho GProjector and in 3D function of Photoshop.
I get exaclty same shape, i believe that same dimension that i got in my origial shape. So i need to do few adjstments to get the real shape. Sinse i dont make the grid fix, i guess i can get the real dimension. Like i did im my maps, i did wrong, coz used only one grid for the entire map. Guess i have to get the projection, get the area to be detailed and after it, set one point to insert my scale, following points that i got flatting in Inventor or the shape from GProjector. Where is called Equiretangular projection.This is my pole shape, comparing my first in Inventor, GP and Photoshop.



After all this, i will made some adjstmentsfor my next version.
Now, following your tuto, i am still trying undertand how to get the "real" distance using the Gratitudes, probly i am having problens with math/english, if u can simply for me i apreciate.
http://www.cartographersguild.com/tu...made-easy.html
You conviced me to remove the grid, probly getting a "game version" and a "beliveable version"  :Very Happy:  
About the distorsion, i can get a "real" projection and close up and give up from the distorsion effect that used in my maps.

Thank you for sharing all your experience!!!
heh, it being a nice learn road!

*i dunno how to use ur Mercator template in Photoshop  :Razz:  *

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## aquarits

Ok, 3 months to get this. Now i go back to pencil and paper to make the improvements.

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## Hai-Etlik

> Hai, I am Impressed! You are a chest of knowledge.
> I dowlnoaded the GProjector and checked somethings, ofc not so specific, but just about my shape. 
> 
> Dunno how to explain right, so i will describe what i did.
> I used a 3D software (Autodesk Inventor) creating my globe and draw my shape (draw and emboss the shape), after it i made a "flat" getting all my globe (elipse) in a plane. Checking the GProjector, i guess it is like a Orth projection, my shape already have the the grids with the same dimension that i got in the globe.
> See image, that i have 25 mm in the center and the same 25 mm close to the pole. Is a very close dimension when i made the dimension in only one plane, is like if the software stretch the pole to my grid dimension, in this case 25 mm.


I'm sorry but I'm really not sure what you are trying to do here.




> After it i tried 2 things, set my pole shape in ortho GProjector and in 3D function of Photoshop.
> I get exaclty same shape, i believe that same dimension that i got in my origial shape. So i need to do few adjstments to get the real shape. Sinse i dont make the grid fix, i guess i can get the real dimension. Like i did im my maps, i did wrong, coz used only one grid for the entire map. Guess i have to get the projection, get the area to be detailed and after it, set one point to insert my scale, following points that i got flatting in Inventor or the shape from GProjector. Where is called Equiretangular projection.This is my pole shape, comparing my first in Inventor, GP and Photoshop.
> 
> 
> 
> After all this, i will made some adjstmentsfor my next version.
> Now, following your tuto, i am still trying undertand how to get the "real" distance using the Gratitudes, probly i am having problens with math/english, if u can simply for me i apreciate.
> http://www.cartographersguild.com/tu...made-easy.html
> You conviced me to remove the grid, probly getting a "game version" and a "beliveable version"  
> ...


It sounds like this is probably the way you should go, use the equidistant map as the "raw data" adjust it until you get the right distortion, then export to your final projection and apply styling.  You wouldn't need my Mercator template working this way.  If you want a Mercator map, just select the Mercator option in G.Projector.  If you want a graticule on it, G.Projector can add one for you.

For your regional maps, there are a lot of options to choose from.  I would recommend against using Orthographic for this.  For a fairly compact region, an Azimuthal projection would work well, and is fairly simple, enter the latitude and longitude of the centre of the map.  For larger areas, particularly if they run mostly east-west and in higher latitudes, Conic projections work well.  You need to pick to standard parallels near the top and bottom of the area, and a central meridian to set where the middle is east-west.  It's hard to explain so you'll just have to experiment.  Finally, for regions that run mostly north-south, transverse cylindrical projections work well but I don't think G.Projector supports them.  I'd recommend using the conformal versions unless you specifically need equal area:  Stereographic for azimuthal maps, Lambert Conformal Conic (LCC) for conic maps, and Transverse Mercator for transverse maps.

As long as your regional maps use appropriate projections and don't try to cover too large of an area (like a whole hemisphere)  areas, angles, and straight line distances should be approximately correct regardless of which particular projection you use.

If you want the graticule as a separate layer, feed in a blank, transparent image, set all the parameters exactly the same as when you projected the map, add the graticule, and export, then load as a layer over top of the projected base map.

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## aquarits

> Dunno how to explain right, so i will describe what i did.
> I used a 3D software (Autodesk Inventor) creating my globe and draw my shape (draw and emboss the shape), after it i made a "flat" getting all my globe (elipse) in a plane. Checking the GProjector, i guess it is like a Orth projection, my shape already have the the grids with the same dimension that i got in the globe.
> See image, that i have 25 mm in the center and the same 25 mm close to the pole. Is a very close dimension when i made the dimension in only one plane, is like if the software stretch the pole to my grid dimension, in this case 25 mm.


Just trying to say how i got the grids of my old maps, like software stretching the image small at poles to 25 mm in a plane image. But its ok, doesn't matter now  :Very Happy:  going to start the things righ!  :Smile: 

Ok, thanks for all projection references!

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## aquarits

This is just my template for the new maps. The map detailed "IS NOT" my last version, just used it to define the template and what new colors i have to use in my new version.
I loved!! Thank for the tips.

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## aquarits

Ok, now i will go slow, will just advance to next area after i am sure that it is the best style and fixing all mistakes. Opinions pls!

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## Hai-Etlik

The fading out around the edges seems a bit odd, particularly combined with the neatline/border.  The point of such a border is to give a clear idea of the extent of the map.  I'd recommend having the map features go right up to the border with no fading.

Your labels could also do with some work.  Labeling is difficult and one of the things that really shows the skill of a cartographer.  

Some rules of thumb:

Don't cut off labels.  Either include the whole thing, or don't.

Labels should be either straight and horizontal, or curved.  Straight labels along a diagonal usually look bad.

Use a single clear typeface, or related family of faces.  You're sticking to one, which is good, but the particular face you've chosen is a bit hard to read in places, particularly where it's smaller or curved.

----------


## aquarits

Thank you Hai for helping.
You right about the fading, i was just thinking that maybe the "designer" of the map tried not "smudge" the border, so he just not drawed the map near the borders. But i saw i conflicting it cutting the labels. I removed the fade and yes, it got better.

Right! I will not cut the Labels  :Very Happy: 
About the label format, i am still not sure, maybe is just a visual question. I Curved and i guess the font/ typeface donst match, looks better straight... I did the both maps just to check in same time, still dont know  :Razz: 

About the difficulties in reading, guess 2 reasons.
1- i have to low a lots the quality of the image, coz my file gots a huge size. Doing it a "0 quality in PS" still getting 1,5 mb, trying 3~4 it up for 6mb. And still soon to upload a image with that size, since just discussing  :Smile: 
2- I guess with taht quality and using "portuguese" in my map, it make hard to understand.

When i see my full file here, looks nice and some ppl of my country, read without problens. Hope just quality  :Smile: 

After you said about the fade, i made some adjstments in the effects, that made the map more clear. Follow the both maps:



links with a little bigger image

Curved Labels
Straight Labels

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## aquarits

I re-worked my elements, using a thin brush, guess i found the best type and color, i liked how looks my mountains, and now i guess i found a better color for my trees, the green after i use the template wasn't nice before and i tried other.
Now i am doing some elements, i want to give some level to the places. I have 2 examples of elevations in this map.

1 - I liked how it shows the path of the roads near the sea and looks like similar to the other elements in the map.
2 - Still not using this, just put in the map to get some feed back. I want to put some cliffs near the sea or use in other place, but not sure if it is right for this style of map and if it looks beuty


Link with a big size

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## aquarits

Ahhh, still dont like the colors of my trees. I made a bigger map just to see all elements.



Link with a big size

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## - Max -

The trees seems maybe a bit too dark? Anyway the map is pretty small to really see the elements on it

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## aquarits

Yes it looks dark, i put a link with a large image. will not upload the better resolution, coz the file is too large. Maybe i go to a "more yellow" color for my trees. Dunno need help  :Very Happy:

----------


## - Max -

But your link don't send to a big pic :/  Maybe you can add a highlight touch on the top the trees? It would be a hell of a job though cause you probably have to do it one by one....

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## aquarits

Right ty Max, you helped me a lots  :Very Happy: 
You tutorial in one other thread ( http://www.cartographersguild.com/to...village-6.html ) opened my mind for a lots of things, when i look to the map i fell that it get better, and i observed your map of "Lorn" and learn a lots this evening 

http://www.cartographersguild.com/at...lage-river.pdf

I rebuild my mountains and trees, and passed a lots of time searching brushes and modifying for how i want that it looks.
This is the picture with my old and the current icons. Left side are the new, i skip use 2 colors in mountains and changed the color of the trees. Removed the old shadow lines from both to use a brush. The right side of the sea is the old and weird set of icons.




LINK WITH BIG SIZE

Following Schwarzkreuz's tuto guess i got it  :Very Happy:  



> Hi I did a small Tutorial for you.
> 
> Also, a graphic tablet is an electric tool to draw directly into Photoshop or whatever u use for drawing your map.

----------


## - Max -

Glad I could help you Aquarits.  Forests looks pretty good  :Smile:  Now you really to work on a new icon set! :p

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## aquarits

Ty Max!
Last update, i fell ready to upload a full version. Pls comment what is wrong. Ty!

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## - Max -

Great! Though I think that the cities/town and such icons don't fit the terrains very well, but maybe it's the low image quality or the reddish outlines I don't know. Same for the compass, it looks awesome but the lines are too thin considering the way you draw the map imho. Can't wait to see the following progress

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## aquarits

1 - i am uploading files with 2,2mb, a better quality mean that i need to use like 6 mb and forum wont let me upload it. yea, it is 6 mb  :Very Happy: 
2 - i tried use just 3 colors, black, red and green. The red in towns was to be like a rubber stamp  :Frown:  I am working to use the towns icon in with a emboss in wax, want something like it with some blur and smudges:


3 - U right about the compass, i used line size 3, like i used in the rest of the map. But map got resized, easy to fix it, just need to re-patch the border.

Now i really need suggestions and more observations, guess i cant find much more things ... as my fist map, dunno if it is going to get finished.

the Compass rose  :Very Happy:  i liked <3

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## - Max -

This compass is stunning job!
For the icons, not sure u can have something like you show, the lines are too thin imo

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## aquarits

how u do with your icons?
I draw it in the size that i will use in the map, its hard to draw, the lines not looks clear coz the icons are small. May i draw it bigger and resize in the map?

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## - Max -

On my WIP (Empire of Lorn) I draw my icons like near twice the size they look on the map, with a 0,1 diameter pen then rezise them when I made brushes

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## aquarits

hmm, my small towns i use a area of 25x25 or 49x49 px, guess a pen size 3 px. If u are saying in mm, my pen is near to 0,8 mm, checking your map, your icons looks like 49x49 (minimal). Ok i will check it, and will post a progress soon.
Just got a new boss, guess cannot use some time in my work for mapping  :Very Happy: 




> This compass is stunning job!
> For the icons, not sure u can have something like you show, the lines are too thin imo


Thank You very much Max. I apreciated a "stunning" comment for my first work!  :Smile:

----------


## - Max -

My cities brushes are from 40 to 60 px. Having troubles with scanner, I use a digital camera and import them in photshop so the pics come in a way bigger size, so I had to reduce the size. Maybe that explain it I don't know

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## aquarits

Yes, i do the same, i need to use a cam to get my icons, i dont have a scaner  :Razz:  Phot with a cam  :Very Happy: 

So i made the checks, here is the results:


Icon 1 - draw in a patch of 49x49 - pen 3 px ( if draw in a 25x25 with pen 3 px is exactly the same)
Icon 2 - draw in a patch of 49x49 - pen 5 px
Icon 3 - draw in a patch of 97x97 - pen 3 px
Icon 4 - draw in a patch of 97x97 - pen 5 px
Icon 5 - draw in a patch of 97x97 - pen 9 px

All resized 400%, close to the proportion that i use map x template. guess i will use the icon 2 and 5 to check in my map.

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## - Max -

Nice cam pic!  :Very Happy:

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## aquarits

Guys i have a weird felling right now.
I just made the new set of my mountains and was starting to draw it:



But when i started do it, i just lost all the will to keep doing :/ I look to my map and see that it is over, will start run in circles and guess i need something different. I dunno wut is this, but i just cant continue doing this map. Next step is detail a new area, and start do everything again?
Same style of mountains, trees, just making a bit different for each region...
I have a entire world that i want to detail, but i just think in 2 things:
1 - i am not having progress
2 - i dont defined the right or not a my "loved" style.

I loved the power of creation that a mapper have in hands... guess i finished this map >.< I suppose that someone felt this thing before and can help me explain wut i am felling right now. Guess i will change the style again, following other tutos. Hope that need to learn be the obstacle to continue this style of map, and just feed the will to improve my skills and develop others.
Attached i have my world.

 :Neutral:

----------


## - Max -

Aquarits, what you feel seems understandable. You planned to map a big whole world in one style, which will probably take you a lot of time. You have maybe to take a break while mapping another thing with another style or other technics, then come back to your favorite world enjoying the nice moutains, trees and such you did earlier. Or you can decide to map the regions of your world with different styles. Who said that there was only one cartographer who made it?  :Wink:  Don't give up, take a break, take a breath and go on the way you want to do...

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## aquarits

ok thank you for the words Max. I guess i will stop this area and style and try work with different things. Lets see wut i have to post today  :Very Happy:

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## - Max -

NO problem Aquarits. Mapping is a lot about frustration sometimes. We have to deal with it and learn patience  :Cool:

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## aquarits

took a while to come back, i searched, studied and made a lots of try and at last i guess i found something that i liked.

Thank you Max for all the support shading my mountains, wut i am posting here is just some of results of my tests, dunno if i can improve more right now, i will keep making the map advancing now that i found something that i liked, hope find more things to adjust and i will post the progress later.

Pictures are a set of mountains, right now i am working in trees and the buildings, as u can see one sanctuary. The other 2 pictures are a comparative of my new proposal and my old area.

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## - Max -

No problem  :Smile:  Glad to see you back. Your mountains are just great! You can see my last moutains set on my current WIP thread (less sharpened than yours  :Very Happy: ). Don't know if your new proposal will fit your hand-drawn stuff but nice colors on i though.

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## aquarits

Lol, just subscribed in your WIP and sent a email ahhaha.

Well, wut i want with this proposal is highlight the reliefs and use the shading technique that u teach me to make the details... well, still training more the shading before and leaning more about about Wilbur, improving my topography.

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## aquarits

Right, this is the idea how to map will grow. Just did a small area before work in the rest.

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## aquarits

I fixed the typos in population of Santa Farms  :Very Happy:

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## - Max -

Hmm really I'm don't think the height map fit the hand-drawn stuff :/ I would choose for one syle, not both...

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## aquarits

Ok  :Very Happy: 

One thing is right, nobody can say that i don't try a lots of things  :Smile: 

U right, but in the end i got a nice border and cool rivers. Got some new things to put in the background, i will show nest try soon. Wut u think about the multi icons colors? like mountains and trees in different climate regions?

----------


## Freehand 5.5

It's alway questionable to compose computer generated graphics with hand drawings.
But the technical problem with the 3d-graphics is that it is completely blurred and too rough.
Throw it away and do it again with at least double dpi quality.
The line drawings of the trees, hills and settlements are so nice and sharp.
In my opinion that's the main reason why it doesn't fit.

----------


## aquarits

> It's alway questionable to compose computer generated graphics with hand drawings.
> But the technical problem with the 3d-graphics is that it is completely blurred and too rough.
> Throw it away and do it again with at least double dpi quality.
> The line drawings of the trees, hills and settlements are so nice and sharp.
> In my opinion that's the main reason why it doesn't fit.


Seriously, i tried search in Internet, but i have no idea what are you saying  :Smile:  I really want to understand to make a try.




> Hmm really I'm don't think the height map fit the hand-drawn stuff :/ I would choose for one syle, not both...


That is right, till i wait and try understand what Freehand suggested i will just use it to help me in my topography, borders and texture

Ok here is some progress. I really like this thing, and thinking serious to follow this way.
Doing it, i found a terrible problem that cost me some time to find a solution. My full map is too big, when i insert my elements, i need to make the size very small and lose a lots of resolution, blurring all lines, tried make the full map in a bigger size [what mean 275% more]... FAIL! The file gots so big that was impossible to work, the memory file was running about 32gb ¬¬
The way that i found was just work with the paths. Made a file  with the same size of my full map, adjusted to my desired 275% more, and started to draw with a small canvas, just using the big path as reference. With that i didn't lose my border's resolution and when fill the path i preserve all quality of my background stuff. The problem now is that i cant joint my regional maps, cos think that is impossible to use the same quality of details in 2 or more maps, my terrain blurring for example.
The solution that i found is work in 2 maps, one for the regional areas and other for my full map, where i will hide some details, like small towns, places and groups of mountains/ trees.

After all this, i noticed that my borders and rivers got really sux lines, make sense, since i used the same path shape 275% more. i will work ti fix it soon, at this point i was focused in use my icons and a blurring idea for terrain. Pls do not observe my borders for now, just the other elements.
The labels, when i imagined it was nice, but when started to set it in the map, i noticed that or i need to adapt the idea or isn't a good a idea. Check the the farm in the center... i just cant label it, no space for my arrow.
Need a opinion about the font of my text, i REALLY like this one, but want a second vision, in my last try  with a low resolution it not look nice/ readable.

For now, i guess that it is all.  :Very Happy:

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## - Max -

Hey there. Well I must confess I didn't understand much what you said about your size and resolution troubles :/ but here's my opinion about that new update : 
- ok I won't say anything about the borders  :Wink: 
- Some shadows on the cliff give it a weird look. I'd re-work them since most of them doesn't really make sense.
- I'd add more contrast on colors (shade more, highlight more) on icons, moutains and such
- Outer glow labels are way too big. I don't think you need them so big to make the labels comfortbale to read. I'd really decrease size and maybe some opacity/or adjust colors.
- Hand written lfont styles are always hard for labeling maps but for some reason I'm used to see your maps and I think it fits your drawing style
- Not a great fan of the colors of fields. The pink/redish ones really attract eyes. Since this color isn't put verywhere else, I'd get rid of it and switch for a more harmonious one.
- I love the Oratory!  :Wink: 

Kepp up the good job!

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## Greason Wolfe

I think what Freehand is trying to say (and I may be wrong) is that the contrast in styles from a 3d-like texture to the hand-drawn elements is rather jarring.  The 3d-like texture looks more like a grainy photo over which sharper, hand-drawn elements have been placed.  For me, that is distracting as I can't decide whether to focus on the texture or the hand-drawn elements.  In this latest version, however, you've done a better job of merging the styles.  The 3d-like texture is still there, but it is much more subtle, and doesn't pull attention away from the sharper, hand-drawn elements nearly as bad as in the previous version of the map.  It is very difficult to balance two different styles in the same map, but you seem to be getting closer.  Good luck, and don't give up.

GW

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## aquarits

> Hey there. Well I must confess I didn't understand much what you said about your size and resolution troubles :/ but here's my opinion about that new update :


i made a picture to try explain better.

In the picture 1 i have my full shape, of the entire world. The size of the image is about 16k x 10k px, i think it is big lol, but dunno how to work with a different way. In my last trys, i was using this file to work with my regional maps, but wanted more definition in my icons and stuff.
My new icons are not  appropriated for this.
Like i show in picture 2, when i resize the icons they practically disappear, i tried to draw in a small size, but cant get enough details, the solution was resize the shape. Like i said before, when i resize the entire shape, the file gets so bigger that make impossible to work.
In picture 3 i show the solution just working with the path. Thanks to details like blurring the terrain, i am not sure if i can joint the maps later, to make a world map.




> - I'd add more contrast on colors (shade more, highlight more) on icons, moutains and such


for this i just adjusted the shadow in layer options, since i dont understand right what you mean adding more shade/highlight.

About the farms with red color, in begin i planned work just with green and yellow. But worrying farms with just 2 types of plantations i tried a 3rd color.
I must make a tribute for u Max, calling the cliffs something like "Cliffs of Pain" or "Terror Cliffs"  :Very Happy: 
I re-shade it and hope it is nice now, was looking strange yes.

Thanks for the Oratory. This place is very important for all empires of the east. coz Dales usually hosts meetings for treaty, like the Southern treaty, holding the peace btw Fagacea and Hirkania, and the Prucia's treaty, forming a big kingdom making a unification with the 3 kingdoms of the north. All thos meetings passed in the Prucila's Oratory.




> I think what Freehand is trying to say (and I may be wrong) is that the contrast in styles from a 3d-like texture to the hand-drawn elements is rather jarring.  The 3d-like texture looks more like a grainy photo over which sharper, hand-drawn elements have been placed.  For me, that is distracting as I can't decide whether to focus on the texture or the hand-drawn elements.  In this latest version, however, you've done a better job of merging the styles.  The 3d-like texture is still there, but it is much more subtle, and doesn't pull attention away from the sharper, hand-drawn elements nearly as bad as in the previous version of the map.  It is very difficult to balance two different styles in the same map, but you seem to be getting closer.  Good luck, and don't give up.
> 
> GW


Thank GW
I dont understand what Freehand said to do  :Very Happy: 

Here some more progress

----------


## aquarits

This upgrade was very productive i guess.
I was wondering how to make the terrains colors get a sweet transition btw the different colors. I was blurring and smudging for ages and not happy with the results. For some reason i started erase the limits with lower opacity and bam! Some few touches and i got wut i wanted. Reducing the opacity of the Icons shadows opened my mind about the shadows that i used in the terrain to highlight the reliefs, i liked it and used in where my mountains start.

Problem now are my Labels, or i can say , still are. i dunno if i have to use a bigger size of font or what to do to make it better to read. I tried some changes in the outer glow but still not nice.
Guess now i will stop for a time till get more feed back, i have completed almost all of this area and still dont know how to call it in English. Where i need some help too  :Very Happy: 

"Os Reinos Menores do Norte" - The Smaller Kingdoms North

"Smaller/ Small" is not sounding good for me, hope some opinions about it too.

Ty

----------


## foremost

I like the map, but a few suggestions for you:

1) Make the forest a little denser and perhaps add more shadow to it. I noticed that you did a better job on this in the North-Eastern forest zone but the southern one is especially light and open. Darkening the whole map in general might help too, but I think giving that forest area a murkier feel would help much more.

2) The farms look somewhat strange. : \ I don't think neon colors for the fields is the best way to go - maybe just some simple hatching would work better.

3) The map has a blue hue to it that sorta throws things little off. Again, perhaps once you darken things up it'll look better.

So pretty much the key to making this map even more perfect is to darken it. I like the land layout and most of the drawings you did - so there is certainly a good deal of excellent things on here, but I figure you have heard about those already  :Smile: 

Good luck!

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## aquarits

Ty foremost, i appreciate your observations
Farms, annotated. I know that inst cool, but still trying find a better idea for farms.
For the trees just u saying that i noticed about density

BAHHH the bright!!! I just don't know how to balance it, every time that i change it i think that it is better, i just cant fell / compared what is better. I made 5 sets of bight/ contrast maybe someone  help me to decide.



ty

----------


## foremost

I think brightness 15% with some contrast looks best, but I wouldn't go any brighter. That makes the trees look better too.

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## - Max -

Nice improvements here!  :Smile: 
About contrast : I'd work on colors before adjusting any contrast (which doesn't make that much sense on your map with only a few color touch). It seems that you choose to color the map with some kind of brights colors (looking at the sea) so I'd go coloring the other  areas of the map (lands, moutains, places of interest and so.)
I'd also get rid of the farms that looks too computer generated imho. I saw you want to steal my Green Havens one  :Wink:  Go go go if you feel it fits your map!
Also I concur on forests, you should make then more dense in my opinion.
Btw good job overall  :Smile:

----------


## aquarits

Thanks foremost  :Cool:  honestly if i say that i see some difference of the 5 samples will be a lie, cos i dont see any  :Question:   :Question:   :Question:  Appreciate you helping me in this.

I tried change the colors but i liked this blue/ green touch, took me a lots to define my base color in shape and 3D terrain. It looks like more with what type of world is this (whit angels, Valkyries, elves), i dont have many of other type of population in this world. Wanted to keep this touch of sky, water, spiritual world.




> I saw you want to steal my Green Havens one  Go go go if you feel it fits your map!
> Also I concur on forests, you should make then more dense in my opinion.
> Btw good job overall


Dont call the cops anymore, it isnt considered a steal since u gave the permission. Damm, how can be, just singles lines represent so nice a farm o.0?

Ok, it is looking good for me, just 3 points to observe, first time that i got a nice performance like this  :Very Happy: 
will try upload something today or tmr, want to define this lay out to go to may 2 fantastics place... where i still dont know how to 2..... a HUGE mountain with 3 towns and Floating Islands.

Thank you both again!

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## Midgardsormr

I really like the color scheme you've used, including its current brightness level. It's certainly unusual, and that definitely gives it a spirit-world flavor. 

I concur with the others regarding the farms; the textured look to them does not match the rest of the hand-drawn style, and the colors are jarring. I think that's mostly a matter of them being over saturated.

Regarding your text, I think the script style works for the larger labels, but it gets very difficult to read the smaller you go. I don't think any amount of glow or stroke will help that. I think what you need is to select a very legible secondary font that matches the style but is more traditional in shape. It definitely should not have any swashes. I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head, though.

I think you should do something to tone down the whites of the heraldic shields. Either add a little bit of tint to them, or perhaps change their blend mode to multiply so the white vanishes. Likewise, the white trees need some color. They don't necessarily need a lot, but a very light cool gray will help them integrate better into the rest of the map. 

Overall, I really like this map. Good job, and I'm looking forward to your next revision.

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## foremost

Well I suppose the brightness and the blue hue are two different things. I think the blue coloring is just personal preference, and keep or change however you want. I don't LOVE it, but that, of course, is simply my own opinion.

Weird to me that you don't see a difference between the brightnesses...  :Razz:  I see a huge difference between the uppermost left and the lower right.

That being said, not my map. Do what you chose, and I am sure it'll come out unique and nice-looking.

Good luck!

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## aquarits

> Well I suppose the brightness and the blue hue are two different things. I think the blue coloring is just personal preference, and keep or change however you want. I don't LOVE it, but that, of course, is simply my own opinion.
> 
> Weird to me that you don't see a difference between the brightnesses...  I see a huge difference between the uppermost left and the lower right.
> 
> That being said, not my map. Do what you chose, and I am sure it'll come out unique and nice-looking.
> 
> Good luck!


Guys pls  :Smile: 
This is my first map, everything that u say i check and see if i like or no. Without all comments, i dunno if i was able to do a 1/4 that what i did. I appreciate all comments and just see as constructive advice. If someone say something to me here, and i dont use in this map, is just in this map. Probably in future i will need in other experience, for now, all experience that i can get come from you  :Smile: 





> I think brightness 15% with some contrast looks best, but I wouldn't go any brighter. That makes the trees look better too.


Using this configuration: brightness 15% and contrast 80%




> Nice improvements here! 
> I'd also get rid of the farms that looks too computer generated imho. I saw you want to steal my Green Havens one  Go go go if you feel it fits your map!
> Also I concur on forests, you should make then more dense in my opinion.
> Btw good job overall


I steal, i use!! Thank Max.





> Regarding your text, I think the script style works for the larger labels, but it gets very difficult to read the smaller you go. I don't think any amount of glow or stroke will help that. I think what you need is to select a very legible secondary font that matches the style but is more traditional in shape. It definitely should not have any swashes. I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head, though.
> 
> I think you should do something to tone down the whites of the heraldic shields. Either add a little bit of tint to them, or perhaps change their blend mode to multiply so the white vanishes. Likewise, the white trees need some color. They don't necessarily need a lot, but a very light cool gray will help them integrate better into the rest of the map.


Cool, i am looking for one font that match with one that i am using. Soon i will test something, thank you for the tip  :Very Happy:  I put some green in the white trees.

Guess i will start work with the template to finish the map, till i get more observation. Someone thought about the region name?

"Os Reinos Menores do Norte" - The Smaller Kingdoms North

Like i said i dont liked the "Smaller" term.
Ok, here the last update. Thank you all <3

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## Midgardsormr

Lesser Kingdoms of the North?

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## - Max -

^ sounds good.

Nice farms there!  :Very Happy:  Don't want to bother you but I'm still thinking that those mountains need a bit of color touch. And still don't want more dense forests? :p It could maybe help to make the labels more  readable on them, for now they're hard to read.

Keep up the good job!

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## aquarits

Loved the name!!! I adopted it ok  :Very Happy:  ty Midgar.

More brown in the mountains? It got the max that i can in same opacity rest of the field. I test it in other layer.
Forests i guess i got enough, i don't want the tress overlapping too much, but i am going to bigger labels.

i have something prepared here, but need update my MMO or need to play everything tmr.

Do you believe that i am going to finish this map soon? I still dont know when will be the time to stop hehe

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## aquarits

This is the first attempt to finish. It is the max quality that i can get with 4 mb. Really need to show it to someone... honestly i can see nothing more, guess much time with same image in front of my eyes.

Put more colors in mountains and used Stroke instead of glow in the labels.

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## - Max -

Some mountains needs more shading or highlightning colors though. On some of them we can see the land color through them.
I'm not fond of the border. It really needs more work to be a good one  :Wink:  The corners embellishments unbalance the border and You shouldn't just put the black elements on it but rather think in a way to melt/mix them with the border.

So, no, it's not yet the finishing time  :Very Happy:  !

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## Midgardsormr

Also, those ornaments in the corner are blurrier than the rest of the elements. They've been scaled up much too far. So you need to either rebuild them at this scale, find a higher resolution source for them, or scale them back down to close to their original resolution. You _might_ be able to sharpen them, but you'll probably wind up having to do quite a lot of touching up to deal with ringing and noise.

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## aquarits

I suppose that i am not able to work with some decorations like i tried. Maybe need try learn more about it.

For this update follow more color in mountains like Max recommended. some more touches in terrain and labels. I tried to work like with the ornaments, re-path in the right dimension and added some filters.

One way and other i am uploading one file with the decorations an other where i gave up to put it  :Very Happy: 

***EDIT***
Wrong pictures uploaded - removed the current.

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## aquarits

Now i upload the right maps. I deleted the older.




> For this update follow more color in mountains like Max recommended. some more touches in terrain and labels. I tried to work like with the ornaments, re-path in the right dimension and added some filters.
> 
> One way and other i am uploading one file with the decorations an other where i gave up to put it


Sorry  :Very Happy:

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## aquarits

Other test using the decoration.

For this update, i have now the last lvl of the kingdons symbols where i updated the compass with they. changed some label position, cos i noticed some getting cut with this test. Made the font with a better size in the compass, now can read it clearly and adjusted the size/scale for exatcly 12 km.

----------


## - Max -

I'd definitely get rid of the low quality decoration, who don't fit the map and the border, and try something else. And also get some a few  hightlights on mountains since they are colored now but look a bit too dark.

----------


## Ramah

I'd have to go along with Max and say that those border decorations really don't gel with the rest of the map. If you're going to do something more with them, ie paint them, then they could work but right now they just looked pasted on.

Oh, and btw, I see you have a place called "Candida" on your map. That is actually the proper name for "Thrush," a yeast infection that you can get in your mouth and on your genitals... just saying as you might want to change it.  :Very Happy:

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## aquarits

Ok, check this attempt.




> Oh, and btw, I see you have a place called "Candida" on your map. That is actually the proper name for "Thrush," a yeast infection that you can get in your mouth and on your genitals... just saying as you might want to change it.


 :Shocked:  :Shocked: its a real name :Shocked:  :Shocked: 
Cant imagine the synonymous! Thanks for your advice, but is a name of a important person in the whole history.

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## aquarits

since nobody replied here, i guess this map is finished  :Very Happy: 
Here is the description till i create a finished maps post:

In begin this region was formed for a single kingdom, The old Kingdom of Eurong. Beset by a group of Fallen renegade angels, the  population dominated by fear started to moving to neighboring kingdoms. Years later these same angels began to follow their own destiny and slowly spreading and living in the shadows of the world of Egos. With only their ancestor  descendants in memory of their parents started the construction of the magnificent Tower of Sion, a splendid building that can be seen for days of travel of distance.With their land free again, the ancient inhabitants and their descendants began a real exodus in search of their land, culture and hospitality. Divided by influences from other cultures, other two small kingdoms born in this new formation. Galaria and Dales.
For nearly a century these three kingdoms disputed the boundaries of the northern lands, until a legendary son of a Valkyrie began an epic struggle looking for the unification of the three kingdoms. States now they had, as a great empire, political and economic strength that matched the other kingdoms of the continent. The Lesser Kingdoms of the North as formed.
The three northern kingdoms stand out in the history of the continent of Theon for his ability and dedication to form tracts that have already been responsible to end wars and not letting others start. Currently this region is plagued by another delicate situation. Exactly located in the center of a political conflict that burst with a thread of a war ever seen in the world. A railway line that would link the Valdorn to Tristania is a bold project that aims the world economy.
When this, in West, Tristania stands with petroleum and gold ready to complete this project. To the south, Hirkania brings steel, for this gigantic construction and in east, Valdorn houses all the secrets of this technology. In the center beyond the Three Kingdoms, Veloria have the main ingredient of this epic construction. The land.
Determined to not devastate their forests, the elves are willing to defend their lands until the last thread of magic, connected by this mystical force, the magicians of far southern kingdom, Randoria intends helps them, because in the end, the strength acting on its floating islands depend directly on the existence of elves.
If anyone can resolve this situation, Is the strength contained in the lips of skilled emperors who composes the Trio Viratu governing the northern lands.
Tristania began construction in their lands.

*Tower of Sion*

Azarel Kel is a Nephilim, son of angels with humans. His father, one of the renegade angels, disappeared to protect himself from the attacks of the celestial punishment. Guarding to honor his father, Kel Azarel decided, to create a home to host all renegades and all his descendants. Thus was born the Tower of Sion. A huge building that does not stop growing, the highest peaks actually touch the clouds and today hosts more than five thousand inhabitants. A city around the tower houses a commercial center very active in and around the tower, spread infinite farms, making a self-sustainable economy. Although, the renegades not want to meet, thus avoiding being easy targets, the Tower of Sion, time in time gets these visitors. For some special reason, what lurks just inside the walls of the tower, this place has never been the celestial target. Legends pray that the walls were built with the bones of gods so immune to the angelic powers.

The area of the Lesser Kingdoms of the North has about 500,000 km ² and a population of 30 000 inhabitants spread.

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## - Max -

Well, well, well I wouldn't called it finished regarding the border :p In my opinion, it still needs some work. I concur with Ramah about it : for now it looks like isolated elements pasted on (plus those elements are too blurry). I'd personnaly remove them and replace them with something that looks closer to the compass for example. Sorry to bother you with it but im my opinion such details are important on a map. I'd better appreciate some map with a decent border ( at least a simple one that fits the whole map design). Just my two cents here  :Wink:

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## aquarits

i tried work in a border, but i cant do it still, maybe need more skills with photoshop.
So instead of inventing, I left for practice.

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## aquarits

this is the new area with shy improvments i guess, hope some coments




> Willpower. This is the vital energy of the survival of Randoria.
> Formed with arcane bases, this empire is devoted entirely to the study of magic arts. Reinforces the idea that the people of Randoria were the first to have friendly contacts with the celestial beings. When say friendly, I mean not hostile, since this creatures are not interested in mortal factors.
> Since the wars of the Brethren, Randoria established a covenant with the existence. Tell the stories that the end of the Great War, a force began to reign in the hearts of the realm. Since then, a priest prays day and night for the existence of magic and maintain harmony throughout the empire. The willpower of this, is so great that it was responsible for the immersion of the great and legendary floating islands of Randoria. Even today, a chosen and maintained under these constant training and behavior, this priest is known from time to time as "the oracle."
> Randoria is in the extreme south of the continent Phaten, and has the second largest landholding in the region. Allies of the elves of Veloria, the live in a standoff with the high development of technology in Valdorn, which divides the kingdom between the land of Randoria and Veloria.
> 
> The floating islands of Randoria
> 
> The oracle is an important figure in all spheres of Randoria structure. Since taking the decisions leading up to keep warm as the faith of his subjects through their prayers. A group of monks keeps helping the oracle in their prayers, once a year, the oracle rest for 15 days, during this period without the prayers of the saint, the floating islands almost touch the ground. In total the floating  archipelago sum  six islands, which host the large capital and an academy where only the most devout and able can potentially initiate studies. The energy that sustain the islands in the air is directly linked to two factors, the prayers and the oracle and the magic of Veloria. Although not proven, but a singular phenomenon happens in the same period of the rest of the oracle in the mystical mountain waterfalls of Veloria. When the islands are about to touch the ground, these falls almost dry, which further strengthens this mystical connection between the two kingdoms.
> Randoria, Randy, Farsla, Senitem, Tandra and Zyn are the manes of the 6 islands in the 1,9 million km² with around 50k inhabitants.

----------


## - Max -

Nice one. a few comments though:
- background texture seems to have a poor resolution
- the bridges icons are a notch below regarding the other icons. 
- No names on rivers?
- Wut???? You did the same border with blurred black figures than your last map. Tssss, bad bad boy  :Very Happy:  This would be your nexte challenge

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## aquarits

i have to say "DAMN"
Are u talking about the angels in my last border???? Dang, i was thinking only in the flowers!!!
Got it, i will redraw this, since i have it pathed will not be hard and right now i am working in some variations too  :Very Happy: D

now lets try be clear for no mistakes  :Very Happy: 
When u say low resolution, you mean like i got a small source and got it bigger losing resolution? Or just why i am using some opacity and my file gots nerfed from 400mb to 3,8?
Damn the RIVERS!!!! well, basicaly i not forgot all, coz i guess only 2 that i have names  :Very Happy:  the others guess to small to have some considerations. The 2 rivers forming the swamp, they have names, but is that wrong if the others not get manes?

Didnt got about the bridges, it is a diferent region, the bridges are diferent. or it is too big compared with the others icons.
About the floating islands, it looks float? was a hard part try get a good position for it.

That is why need keep doing  :Very Happy:  to find the solution for old problens. Thank for the support Max, all anoted to next update.

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## - Max -

- About the rivers : since you have space to label them I'd do it.
- About the floating islands: they're lovely!
- About the bridges : they're kind of odd. How people can go through this solid stone???  :Very Happy: 
- About the resolution: I meant that the background has a poor quality and is blurred; probably because you had to strech it too much
- About the border : I already said my thoughts about it in your last WIP, for me it's the weak point that can be improved and make your maps better and better. Maybe look around, get inspired by some others maps, mix with your own ideas and try to improve them  :Wink: 

Well, keep up the nice job!

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## arsheesh

I agree with Max here Aquartis.  Your hand drawn elements are, by and large, very nice.  The floating islands are a nice touch.  However the background textures used not only for the border, but for the land and sea as well are very blurry.  Dido for the figures on the corners of your map.  They look very awkward given how crisp your other hand drawn elements (and compass) are.  I would scrap the textures you are currently using and either find or create new ones.  As for the color scheme, continent outline and hand drawn elements, these all look very nice.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## aquarits

for the backgroung i tried mirror the source to see if i get a better resolution.

For the angels i got it with better resolution, arsheesh i want to use some angels in maps cos they are the main thing in this world, i liked thos cos they arent "cute" and don looks mad. Hope i did the right thing now.

When u said that they cant walk in the bridges i fell that i made the right felling, The rarely use roads, if u check will see 5 districts, they only work to get crystals for the mages in the floating islands, the engineering for roads and stuff are that good. But i dont skip ur adivice, still thinking in the bridges  :Smile: 

arsheesh i dont know if i undertood right about the blur in the whole map. If it is happening, not by the resizing the file, i guess i have a problen, cos to insert my map in the template, i need to resize like 250%, guess where i am losing resolution.

ty for the adivices, i worked following tip by tip

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## aquarits

Well, since nobody commented  :Very Happy:  i guess it is finished  :Smile:

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## jtougas

This is really good. Great job.  :Smile:

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## aquarits

thank you very much Jt  :Smile: 
i just have posted it in finished maps, slowly i put something there  :Very Happy: 
the links of the 2 maps are: 

http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...oms-north.html
http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...-randoria.html

Now i am working in this maps, hope some comments. not got many in the last heheh, maybe nobody interested or it is becoming good  :Smile: 

i am not using hand drawing elements in this maps, in begin i tried but so many places and detains that guess map got polluted, so i chose for simple icons. Tried use the same style and not many colors coz i was thinking in a like of a military map, showing the towns and some routes and ofc to describe the time line of all war places.




> Before the first milk newborns of "The Passage" know the color of blood, before they even learn to read, childrens learn to hate those who do not follow their same religious conviction. Two brothers born for the same father, were able to in 41 years destroy an old empire and split in two, a whole continent. In this scenario born of the greater history of the war in the world of Egos, driven by religious fanaticism, the inhabitants of "The Passage" fighting for over 5 centuries by domains of two cities, regarded by all as holy territory.
> On one side the followers of Dorious, leader by nature, traveler that spread worldwide teachings of the Creator, announcing his kingdom and freeing with battles the branded ignorant by religion for a chance to get the sacred knowledge. On the other hand, the charismatic Abrahad, who founded numerous synagogues from the Southern Randoria to the north of Tristania, announcing the kingdom of the Creator and preaching sanctification by a life of sacrifices.
> Brothers in father, born on the same day in different cities, countless events have announced the birth of the son of the Creator, however no one imagined they would be two childrens  and still doubt the veracity of one side. In Noah, Dorious is the savior of the whole earth, the other is only a forger. From Amareia, Abrahad is the messiah sent by the creator and the other is simply your anti concept.
> The Great Empire of Medina was destroyed by this 2 mens, active for over 6 centuries of tradition, the beliefs divided in various districts struggling for nearly six centuries in a total political and religious discord. Changing the name of the region known for "The Passage" to nothing more than "Warlands".
> 
> *The Training Centers and Battlefields.* 
> 
> This is undoubtedly one of the most bizarre teachings created in "Warlands". These training centers are not just centers for training soldiers. Guided by a certain magical influences, living in these constructions always exact number of 144 womens over 20 years who live with only one goal: Reproduction.
> These children born in "Training Centers" are guided and Educated with a single goal, to participate in holy wars. The battlefields are also sacred sites where the major wars started under the stain of blood from one of the brothers, these fields are still active since the beginning of the first fight and will remain so until a single nation sustain the two cities or until the Creator itself interfere in wars.
> ...

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## - Max -

Nice job, I like the effort you put on colours on this one! A few comments as usual  :Wink: 
- I'd grab the same colors for the key icons and the map icons. here, the key icons looks a little more pink than the red map icons.
- I'm not really convicted by the transparency of the areas labels, which make other elements and labels overlap them. In my opinion, you should better work on labels location to make it more readable.
- Improving the coastlines and the rivers would also probably turns it out better (need just a few work I think)

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## aquarits

- the key icons and the map icons have the same color, maybe a different position in my mask, i will do some adjustments to try get it more close  :Smile: 
- i understand about the coastline, i start to work in a new size of my map, and again i guess i need to re-work my borders. Did u noticed that i improved the graphic resolution doing it? i liked, looks much more clear to see? specially the definition of the labels, they aren't blurred like in my other maps.




> - I'm not really convicted by the transparency of the areas labels, which make other elements and labels overlap them. In my opinion, you should better work on labels location to make it more readable.


I am not understanding it right. If u are talking about the nation names, i just cant find space the put the names coz have a lots of details in each region. If i cant understand the overlap, cos the text was created after the other features.
Well, i will try use the same style that i used in the transparency of the map in my text box and compass, wut u think?

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## - Max -

Yes I noticed your labels are neat, which is a good thing. Your background texure is still blurry though and do a disservice to the map in my opinion. About the nations labels, you may want to try some othe rfont/size/colours that they can be clear and readable. Labeling is sometimes the hard part of the map work  :Wink:

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## aquarits

right, if u have some maps as reference with suggestions about the labels, pls, i appreciate ... cos everything that i try i cannot see a improvement, need more experience to understand the difference that u are saying.  :Very Happy:

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## - Max -

Changing size or areas to put the labels don't help?

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## aquarits

i tried a lots of things, different sizes, font format, colors. Trying to explain, guess i don't know the difference btw a good and a bad label following this style. For you can be easy see it, coz have a lots of more experience, for me everything looks ok  :Smile:  thats why i asked for one other map to try see and learn. Experience make all the difference  :Very Happy: 

After some tries, this looks the better that i found, but i don't liked one thing. The different size of fonts. Trying no get it not overlapping some icons/ other labels. Sometimes, almost the same size of my capitol names >.<

that is my last update

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## aquarits

Follow 2 tries of the lables with same colors used in the map.
One with the my first try and other editing the size of the labels. Hope one of this be ok to finish  :Very Happy:

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## - Max -

:Smile:  Yep the first one is sure an improvment. But you added some anchors icons (I guess harbors) which shoould be in the key along the others icons. By the way, some of them don't have labels on the map. After looking at the map several times I'm wondering if the icons should be a little smaller since it seems very crowded for now.

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## aquarits

NICE!
when i was editing this last time i got the same felling about the size of the icons. Omw to resize then.
I just found one icon w/o label, thanks, it was merged with a wrong layer >.<




> But you added some anchors icons (I guess harbors) which shoould be in the key along the others icons.


Sorry, wut you mean here? ( my sux english  :Confused: )
Mean to not use the anchor and use the same icon?

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## - Max -

No I meant ,since you used anchors icons on the map, the anchor icon should be put on the map key (as the others icons).

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## aquarits

it is, the 4th in the 1st column of the cartouche, called Seaport. But i will change to Harbor, looks better coz not all are working in Sea, have some in rivers  :Very Happy:

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## - Max -

Oh sorry didn't noticed it *tired*

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## - Max -

btw it seems that training centers and battlefield icons are reversed in the key am I wrong?

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## aquarits

Yes, it was inverted thanks  :Smile:  almost put 144 womans in the wrong place  :Laughing:  :Laughing: 

for this update:
- Some adjustments inlabels position
- Nation labels with same color thn sea
- Re-sized the map icons
- All places with names  :Blush: 
- Some more typos correction.

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## - Max -

Next stage should be the work on your bluuuuurry background :p

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## aquarits

for this i need to find a better source... so hard find cool and free ones.

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## aquarits

I started a search how to do a background paper. Got some brushes, tutos, patterns ... but it looks a bit hard to understand and will take some time to try out this.
For this map i just mirrored the old background, dunno if it helped to much. But for my next map i promise use one  better.

Thanx MAx, if u not say it everytime, i guess not driven to start to learn about it.

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## - Max -

No problem. Also I noticed that the rhumb lines can be seen on the lands. Since their purpose is about navigation, I would just get rid off from the lands and only put them on the seas  :Wink:

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## aquarits

right, easy to fix it...
Dunno where i asked about thos line, cos some maps i see the lines in land and some no. And someone said "its looks cool in lands too"  :Very Happy:  i liked and keep it heheh.

If it is wrong, i have to fix, thanks for the advice  :Cool:

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## aquarits

Here some free brushes for backgrounds that i found

http://www.photoshopfreebrushes.com/...aper-brush.zip
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs15/f/20...s_by_chain.zip
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs40/f/20...y_QuizRens.abr
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs6/f/200...c/oldpaper.abr
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs51/f/20..._by_env1ro.rar

guess all free for non commercial use.

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## rdanhenry

You still have a typo in the map key text: "sinse" s/b "since".

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## aquarits

Thank a lots rdanhenry. I use one person to check my spelling, probably he not saw this.

I made the last 3 maps based in wut i learned in the last few months. Believe that i can follow a work flow and do this new experience slowly trying to do something better. This thread is my nota pad  :Very Happy:  everthing that i learned is here and i will try a real WiP.

What i want now? This is a place where the Elves rules. They have forests and live in a big mountain where host 3 citys. I am posting the fisrt try of the shape and wut i want to use as the mountain with towns.
For the shape, i dunno, i see other maps using much more "water" showing more the sea/ oceans. But by the formation of my nation, looks i cant show the sea. The square in black is what i want to detail.

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## aquarits

here some more progress.

I Made few modifications in the land trying get new borders. It is just a preliminary view about the central area.

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## aquarits

I tried to find in the forum a way to make a off set of the lines. Getting parallel lines of my borders and maybe coz is a lots of topics someone can help me finding other wai to do.

This is the way that i found to do it, i will post in "How do i" to look for more opinions. It took a lots of time to know how to do and made it so simple  :Crying or Very sad:  :Rolling Eyes:

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## - Max -

You may want to add feathering on the selected coastlines before contracting (or expanding) to avoid pixellated lines.

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## aquarits

Oh nice! thanks. Looks better feather after contract/ expanding.

This radius tool is nice  :Smile:

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## aquarits

Here is some more progress.
I change the configurations of the icons to make the colors editable. Now if i change the mountains colors i can get the same color on icons.

What you think about the forests?

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## - Max -

Hmm, the shapes doesn't look that  much natural and it lacks of contrast regarding the others elements. Also you could maybe add a small shading under the green part  (example from Green Havens below). It's easy to doand really add depth.



The elven's mountain is gorgeous  :Smile:

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## Freehand 5.5

The Lands of Fagacea got a long way. I like the map very much. 
There is only one point about the text boxes. I would eliminate the terrain elements underneath it because there wasn't transparancy in the middle ages.
So using transparent elements doesn't look like an old map.
And most importantly, it isn't really readable.
In graphic design school they said 'if you want to show something, don't hide it but show it well.'

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## aquarits

Ewwww, looks like forum is experiencing some stability. I was getting some problems to post here.

Talking about the shape of the forests. I added more Forests to try show what i was trying to do. I want to make a clear area where the roads and trails will pass. This area will not have much clear land. Basicaly are forests and in some places it is close to jungles, thinking put more trees will be better to discuss about the shape.
I added the effects in forests and yes, it looked much better. So i worked in to set it manually (not bending/emboss) to can control it better. Soon i will work to try define a standard for the details.
The details in Green Havens are crazy, and i want to put something like this, is my next step after define the shape. Thanks Max.

Hello Freehand, long time  :Smile: 
Yes, the threat is big  :Laughing:  like i said before it wasn't really a WIP thread, is more like to a Learning Thread. Good thing is that i have all history in only one thread.

About the transparency of "Warlands", was thinking in graphically beauty. When use the transparency i liked and guess was nice. But u saying about 'if you want to show something, don't hide it but show it well.' i will keep it in my in the next map. Thanks.

Follow some more progress:

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## - Max -

Oh ok I understand better the forests shapes now you explain the spaces for roads. Looks good so far! Looking forward to the labels on those forests  :Wink:

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## aquarits

I believe that the labels are still far to come  :Smile:  Guess now i finished all mayor forests of the realm.

here some progress.

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## Aredhel

Looking lovely so far!

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## aquarits

Thank you Aredhel  :Smile: 

Before i go to bed, i will post a new update with some details and the icons.

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## - Max -

Looks nice. Two mountains near the dead trees are blurry though and The shadow on the top of the towers is wrong in my opinion, making looks too dark. If light comes from left, the top right should be highlighted.

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## aquarits

Thanks Max, probably the mountains got blurred when i did it in the wrong layer  :Razz:  Fixed the shadows in the towers.

Here some progress  :Very Happy:  next i will put the river names, cos i forgot my scketh with names in my car

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## aquarits

First attempt to finish it, hope not much to modify  :Smile: 




> In the beginning the gods lived in the third heaven, just looking at the creation with eyes of disgust. When the creator sent them to 'Egos' in order to understand all agents, some of these became fascinated by humans. Many of the gods fell in love with humans, lived with them and shared the pain. They built home.
> In the course of the ages, these gods eventually forget their heavenly nature. This embodiment is that we call today as Elves. The basic difference between elves and angels, are not in their heavenly origin, but its acceptance in humans. Elves have no soul, so their existence can not prosper, however, with humans, they can have children and keep their lineage active.Acceptance humanity is something polemicist, because over time, the Elves, immortal found themselves dependent on humans. Prosperity elven occurred with the passage of time and the discovery that the greater proximity to human blood elves, gave a higher probability of the birth of elves. These humans with elven blood, called half-elves are divided into three bloodlines. The more near this purity greater the chance of reproduction among the elves.
> 
> *The mountain of Veloria*
> 
> With approximately 7000 meters of elevation the mountain Veloria houses the two largest Elven cities of all empire. In the Palace and the temple of Dropped Leaves happens a ritual called Halandra, which is equivalent to marriage of humans. The constitution of the family comes down on, need an elf and a human for the elves maintain their existence, however, in respect to feeling, Halandra not forbid marriage between the elves, as long as the family contains both races, it becomes common large families with more than one male and female.The city of Aurian, consists of nearly half-elves, children of bith races, born humans carry with them part of elven blood, they are well respected by the Elven court, respecting them as a result of the union between the two races.
> 
> *Vortex and Vertex* 
> 
> The kingdom of Veloria contains in its territory, a vortex and a vertex. Practically have the same operation. These places have almost no pellicle that separates the physical from the spiritual world. Being able to access both world trough these areas.The difference between the two is that vortex existed since the early days, they emerged naturally giving access to two rivers that cross the entire cosmos (Stinx and Oceanus), in contrast Vertex were created and are maintained in a ritualistic and magical assets to communication between spirits and mortals.

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## - Max -

I have mixed thoughts about it after taking another look on the whole map. Overall map is nice but I maybe expected more work on forests since it's the main feature of this one. Not enough labels on them to my taste (a lot of them don't have names) and I don't know, maybe it's the (almost) plain color on them and/or some kind of lack of contrast. 
Also a few comments:
- The upper right cartouche looks stucked in this corner. It almost overlap the coastline.
- I'm not convinced by the white font. The one you used for the cities is nice but the other don't really fit with it
- Lovely icons as usual, good palette and simple but nice border.

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## aquarits

The forests, i made some modifications and here are 4 ways that i tried, what you guess?



About more labels, i dunno, i just show what i have names, i guess not more labels coz the other areas just don't have names. I will try find work in the other forests to see what names i can get.
I don't understand about the cartouche, so i just reduced a bit the size.
After you talk about the font and the color ( of the white labels) i noticed that after i save the file, the color just disappear and turn to white. it is to be almost the same color of the non forest area.

 :Frown:  i liked the font type for the big labels  :Crying or Very sad:

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## - Max -

3 or 4 seems ok ( but I think you don't need to fill it with the little trees, just the little black curved lines are ok). I'm still thinking more labels would be cool and the white color is ok, I just don't like that much the font used but if you like it, go with it  :Smile:

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## aquarits

Thanks Max, always can count with you  :Smile: 

Hope enough for forests, the forest of spirits don't get a nice background, but something relationed with the Valkyries are and the Blood Forest with some battles against the Ogres.
What do you think now?

( i was saving the file with low quality, it explain some missing colors in the layers when saved, now it looks fixed)

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## - Max -

No problem man  :Smile:  Yup, forests looks better now in my opinion!

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## Will Brawner

What an incredible map, aquarits! I love the detail on the mountain and the hanging city!

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## aquarits

Thanks Will  :Very Happy: 
I published the map in the finished area you can check here:

http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...tml#post211611

Now going to other map, that i was anxious to do. I will try do something like a road map, this place the special feature will roads, since it was the main tatic where Fagacea found to conquer the independence from Hirkania. Want something based in this, but with a medieval touch.



I just started work in the topography and made some icons that i believe get some updades to make more a medieval style.

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## aquarits

First try out using http://www.cartographersguild.com/tu...ps-tricks.html


EDIT: Ouch ... resolution is sux...

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## aquarits

Ouch, i just discovery how powerfull is Adobe Ilustrator. Got a trial version to check it and gotta re-do this try out using it.

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## aquarits

Here some progress.
Took me some time to try make the lines looks like a manually stroke. Ans with the tools of Illustrator, more time learning  :Very Happy: 
I tried expand the same way that i used in the mountains used in http://www.cartographersguild.com/tu...ps-tricks.html to the rest of the map.

The map got reduced 75% to respect the 4 mb of upload.

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## - Max -

Hmm you got a good start but I'm not convinced by this last update :/ The cross hatched texture combining with the other texture "kill" all your geographic drawing and colors. Also I think your rivers need more curves.

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## aquarits

wait, can you explain about the hatched texture?
I am uploading a image w/o the layer with the hatched brushes.

The rivers, i am just respecting the relief. Not many irregularities to get more curves.

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## - Max -

Yes it was the crosshatched texture that kills the map a bit. Maube try some other blending modes or just out behind the reliefs. But your background texture has some too dark areas in my opinion (especially the big one around the lake)

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## aquarits

right, i will try more options. The dark area near the lake i tried make something like a valley and a swamped area. looking at first time  it was like a down relief. Any sugestion or is just this area that are too dark?

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## - Max -

Think it's just too dark. You don' t want your texture being more visible than your map features.

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## Chashio

Your terrain could perhaps use some more contrast; brighter highlights and deeper shadows to make the mountains and cliffs and hills pop up. Also, the mountains themselves appear to differ in style from the cliffs... which makes the map harder to read; I can't tell if the mountains are supposed to be read top down or on an angle, if the cliffs are supposed to have vertical faces or slanted. If the mountains _are_ meant to be read on an angle, they might benefit from pulling some of the higher peaks above the range behind them so that you can't see the backsides of the mountains.

For the marshy valley (dark area) wide open flat spaces would be more likely to see a ton of light from the sun because there's nothing to block it, so definitely lighten it up. If you want to make it appear as a depression then pull the terrain up all around it (shadows touching the western side of the depression and highlights in the east and north, according to your sun position). The mountains on either side of the strait in the upper left corner is a pretty good example of that.

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## aquarits

> Your terrain could perhaps use some more contrast; brighter highlights and deeper shadows to make the mountains and cliffs and hills pop up. Also, the mountains themselves appear to differ in style from the cliffs... which makes the map harder to read; I can't tell if the mountains are supposed to be read top down or on an angle, if the cliffs are supposed to have vertical faces or slanted. If the mountains _are_ meant to be read on an angle, they might benefit from pulling some of the higher peaks above the range behind them so that you can't see the backsides of the mountains.


Guess i understood what you said, mountains seeing like from top and cliffs with some angle. But i cannot use it just for representation? I saw many maps using different cliffs not following the same style of the mountains or other element. Maybe unconscious i followed it from somewhere?

I put LIGHT and worked to get less dark colors. Included the regional borders and background. The orange color in the capitol is exactly what i wanted, but still not happy with the inner glow separating the districts. I keep looking for some other maps to try follow same style.
The icons will be arranged when i start put the roads and gain when i start label.

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## foremost

I actually quite like the mountains of your directly above attached map, so I don't see any problems. Nice work.

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## aquarits

Thanks for the feed back foremost and thanks to come back to my thread.

Here is just a small update to see how i want it going.

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## Chashio

Yeah, you can disregard my previous comments; the style took a different turn than where I thought you were going with it. It seems to be working well.

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## aquarits

Nice!! Thanks Chashio!!
I said few posts before in what i am basing the map, for my roads in this realm.



> Thanks Will 
> I published the map in the finished area you can check here:
> 
> http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...tml#post211611
> 
> Now going to other map, that i was anxious to do. I will try do something like a road map, this place the special feature will roads, since it was the main tatic where Fagacea found to conquer the independence from Hirkania. Want something based in this, but with a medieval touch.
> 
> Attachment 53194
> 
> ...


Here i am posting some progress, detailing the west side.

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## - Max -

Interesting job and nice landshape. though it's not legible everywhere. I'd get rid of the forests - especially because they looks like a bit rushed and since it doesn't really matter on this kind of map in my opinion, to make it more neat and clear. Also I'm not fan of the blue/green icon colors, too bright in my opinion. They could be more legible. Another thing : your coastlines are pixellated...
I must admit that I'm a bit confused. Looks like very modern (roads with numbers/some modern icons) for your kind of fantasy world :/

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## aquarits

Fast test to check. If better without forests i have to work a bit in colors, suck but i have some colors in same layer ¬.¬
Both maps linked to comparative.

Too much information in one time, i cant understand  :Very Happy: 

--> *Not Legible*: is because have a lots of names? Is is coz of this, its ok i guess, i have some maps like this, that where have a complex of roads you have to check it closer to can understand.
-->*remove Forest*: I dunno, i guess i need it to explain some roads, check the road upper west cliff. without a forest can't explain why you have to walk a lots around.
-->*Icon colors*: i Followed a standard in first time  :Very Happy:  Blue for federation, yellow for states and green for military. Nothing that i can make some tests with other collors.

the main question, what you mean with "your coastlines are pixellated"? I feathered a lots for proposal, to get rid of the details that i dont believe be possible in a medieval era. Its not a rt, is a tool map i guess  :Smile: 

I agree with modern, but can understand it following the background history. In the Independence War (Fagacea vs Hirkania) the roads was the secret fr the win. Sometimes the soldiers of Hirkania just not understand how the sources appear so fast. They whisper about magic or getting the sources using white Dragons. but the secret was just transportation. The cits in the south just produced soldiers and sources, receive things in the harbors and send to the north, with paved roads connecting the main sites, simple roads connecting every town and secret trails working as shortcut was the victory weapon to win the War. Hirkania has the masters of the Knights, but Fagacea showed that brain can works better, turning the masters in the land transportation.

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## - Max -

I prefer the version without forests but it's just my opinion, maybe others will give their thoughtds about it too. I think the icons colors can be improved to make them more legible and solid. And yes the coastlines are pixellated, look at them closer you' ll see that :p
I understand the story about the map but still think it's odd to have modern touch on your world :/ The way you did the roads/iroad symbols makes them more highways or modern roads or something than paved roads or trails. Just my two cents  :Wink:

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## Chashio

Yeah, I must have skipped over reading that particular post.

That's a neat history.

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## aquarits

Max pls, WTH is "pixellated"? i still dont know what is this  :Very Happy:  and how can i fix this hidden problen? o.o

wait till see my railroad  :Smile:  they started in some places. Is like a pre victorian era. They have oil and something like gas. Started to undertand the steam technology, gunpowder is almost ready to the war.

Chashio thanks, i just saw the thing about the angle after your observation, i will keep it in mind. Maybe just luck it not affect this map  :Smile:

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## - Max -

Oooh didn't understand the pre-victorian era :/  and pixellated means...well....you can see harsh pixels, looks aliased...not smooth...something like that  :Very Happy:

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## aquarits

OHHH, how can i fix it? I stroke the shape using the layer function, i get this line after fill of white the shape. I was using it in all my maps... there is other way?


About the era. They still ate locked in the sword and shield, but in some places they use guns, have cience fighting againt magic. You can see big castles rulling some places and in other realms big mansions hosting the owner and some kind of president.

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## Chashio

aquartis, have you ever read the _Imager Portfolio_ series by L.E. Modesitt, Jr? It has some similarities to your setting. And it's quite a good read.

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## rdanhenry

Interesting style developing here. I agree it has some elements of modern mapping, but I think that inevitable if the map emphasizes roads. I prefer the version with forests.

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## aquarits

Got a busy week this time -.- not many time for mapping.

Thanks for the Tips Cashio, hope did it right, and rdanhenry i have a strong inclination to use forests too  :Very Happy: 

I have some progress to show, almost all detailed, uploading the origial idea and something that i guess with some work can get better.

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## Chashio

The one on the left, with the vibrant colors, is seriously awesome! I just want to spend time looking at it and zooming in to explore and read everything.  :Smile:

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## aquarits

Ok, thanks for the feedback Chashio. I treid to work nore in the collor to not looks "so" shine and added some more features + a history in the forum.




> For over 200 years the province of Matareia was a colony of the largest empire of Egos, The High Empire of Hirkania. During this period the families of Fagacea, Corinta, Matea and Vast tried in vain, a free trade agreement to end the abuse of the land of Matareia. 
> Was in 376ab, that Marcus Fagacea in secret with other families joined in a plan that would give them freedom. Later a blow coffers Hyrkanians would start to plan for the independence of the four families. Marcus Fagacea I, as it became known, began the construction of routes throughout the colony, linking all cities with intelligently for the future military supply in the war of independence. The struggle for independence started in 411ab. 
> With the death of Marcus I, his son,  Mayanter , took over the reins of  the conflict. But only 30 years later, in the hands of Fauler, cried Marcus Fagacea III, returning from the mountains of the White Dragons, and mounted to the winged epilogue of the war.The numerical and military superiority of Hirkania were not able to overcome the supply routes created by Marcus I and II. For over 9 years Hirkanians troops were faced with strong and supplied soldiers of Matareia. In 440ab Mayanter Fauler of Fagacea was declared emperor, Marcus III recognized as the new nation of Fagacea. In the years following the release of the remaining families was inevitable. In 442ab, Fagacea already had free the land of Matareia and the First District. The family drove Corinta other settlers in the Bay of Corinta 443ab. In possession of the lands west of the old Matareia, Fagacea advance east to ending the achievements of Fishermen's  District and the Mines until 445ab. Fueled by Hassun and Larcenia until 447ab, Fagacea got strong and was to emancipate in 450ab with the interference of the Lesser Kingdowns, with the Southern Trait,  in agreement with the statement giving total freedon to Fagacea and ending the war.

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## Chashio

Nice! One thing... I'd move the High Empire of Hirkania label more to the left if you can, so the letters don't clash with the map details so much. It looks great otherwise! Your world inset is very intriguing.

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## - Max -

Looks pretty nice and very detailed. Your labels are clean and legible, the key is simple and well done  and the districts well bordered. But really I'm still not a fan of the icons/name roads which have really modern/contemporary style that clashes too much with your world in my opinion.

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## aquarits

thank you all for all informations, this is the map that will post on the finished maps. I liked this map coz i learned a lots of things about coloring the land and was a great challenge for labels. The focus was the roads wuat not gave me much space to put many things, i liked the exercise.

Here too i am uploading the shape of my next map, trying explore more about everything that i learned on my last maps, maybe i will note get new experiences now, but i want to try apply and repeat everything that i am learning.
Thanks to keep helping me.

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## aquarits

Thanks Chashio, you know that Celare influenced this map?  :Very Happy:  I made a reference, the post with the finished map is here:

http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...s-fagacea.html

Bad luck here, lost my HD with some part of my work, tnx god i finished Fagacea before it gone and, i always use my last map like base to start the new, so i saved the last level of my work in my flash drive to try some things in my job. Saved some brushes too, guess now i will upload every step of my jobs looking for some safe place  :Smile: 
I will be back in a few days.

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## Chashio

> Bad luck here, lost my HD with some part of my work, tnx god i finished Fagacea before it gone and, i always use my last map like base to start the new, so i saved the last level of my work in my flash drive to try some things in my job. Saved some brushes too, guess now i will upload every step of my jobs looking for some safe place 
> I will be back in a few days.


That happened to me last year... and now I back up my work and all of my photoshop presets and brushes, etc. Experience is a wonderful teacher, no?  :Wink:

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## aquarits

Yes, i used a 8gb flash drive for back up, butcleared for some updates, but saturday i crashed my car, wut made me forget to copy my files  :Smile:

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## aquarits

hello, i am back  :Very Happy:  and will take care of my back ups now  :Smile: 

Here a small progress, i put some town icons and other elments coz i was anxious to see if it will go nice. Particulary i liked, since i know that i will put some filters later;

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## aquarits

FUN!!!
Its so fun work with it  :Very Happy:  follow a small upgrade  :Smile: 

Still missing more 2 Samurai cities and more 3 Ninja cities

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## aquarits

Have some progress. I rebuild the forests using only one set of trees and changed the colors of the icons using only 2 different colors.

Got a bit busy with some extra jobs to try fix my car  :Frown:  but hope can slowly doing my map.

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## Felwynn

Pretty cool maps!  :Wink:

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## - Max -

Pretty cool so far! Not very keen of the mountains on this one though. Looks a bit rushed

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## aquarits

trying make it looks like a paint with a Japanese brush. I can re-do the Paths but i guess it is looking like someone drawing with a brush. Still need to find a way to blur like a ink smudging.

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## Schwarzkreuz

I like the idea of aplying an Brushed feel to the map. Great start!

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## aquarits

this is a small progress coz i wanted to see how it will go.

For the mao i still need small towns some forests and a lots of labels. Hope getting a japanese felling.

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## Schwarzkreuz

Its getting a japanese feeling but well, I am sorry to say so, but its a bit of  a fake-japanese feel. 
I realy dont stick to those psydo-asian Latin Letters, which always looks horrible to me (I am an Asian  :Razz:  so I am used to clichees about asian heritage)
try look at 'real' japanese maps and paintings. Or woodcut prints. Also try to paint the mountains with a brush (a real one) and scan them, so you get a real japanese feeling for this kind of maps.

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## Schwarzkreuz

Japanese Map of Afrika 1710 Look at this example.

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## aquarits

Yes, you are right about the letters, i downloaded like 1 million of fonts trying to get one that i like and in the end i still not found one. Like i said, it is just to see the way that it will get.  A lots of things to do in the land.
Looking the map that you posted, its not about the curves of the elements... that vertical names that makes everything different. That boxes with names making the names looking plates saying "welcome to Tokio" give the different felling.
i will keep trying search for a smooth font and try make it more close to a frame.

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## aquarits

Just other test, check this.

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## Schwarzkreuz

Withoit the blue, it looks much better in my eyes. also the new fonts are way better than the ones befire

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## aquarits

Here i go with some more progress. Was really hard to label all ths citys.
I have 2 friends helping me with some translation to Roumaji and Hiragana, dunno if grammatically it is going right, but is looking nice. Btw i found 2 nice sites where can help if someone wants to do something like this:

Japanese Kanji Dictionary
Kanji Romaji Hiragana Convert

I want to store here what i translated to make sure that i will not lost it  :Very Happy:  follow in this sequence: Roumaji/ English/ Portuguese. For some towns i made some adaptations to not get names with 2/3 words.

Shou's temple - The temple of the little - Templo do Pequeno
Village Yoake - Village of Dawn - Vila da Aurora
Doujou no Kyoudai - Dojo Brothers - Dojo dos Irmãos
Gake Village - Cliffs Vilage - Vila do Penhasco
Chiisama Minato - Small hHarbor - Porto Pequeno
Shi Higashi - East Town - Cidade do Leste
Ai's Temple - Temple of Love - Templo do Amor
Dokuritsu - Independency City - Independencia
Teikoku Toshi - The Imperial City - Cidade Imperial
Minami Sei - South Fortune - Fortuna do Sul
Hatonosu - Pigeons Nest - Ninho dos Pombos
S h i t iairando - City Island - Cidade da Ilha ( edited coz of the word filter block)
Kodoku - City of Looliness - Cidade da Solidão
Chikaku Harbor - Nearby Harbor - Porto Proximo
Ali Village - Village of Ants - Vila das Formigas
Yama Kyuuden - Mointains Palace - Palacio das Montanhas
Chiisana Mura - Small Village - Vila Pequena
Burijj City- Bridge City - Cidade da Ponte
Raisu - City of Rice - Cidade de Arroz
Tochuu - Halfway - Meio Caminho
Dainikyou - Second Bridge - Segunda Ponte
Taiyou Shinden - Sun's sanctuary - Santuario do Sol
Hirogari - Wilderness Town - Cidade Vasta
Joubu Rinku - Upper Link - Elo Alto
Fumoto - Foot Mountain Village - Pé da Montanha
Engan - Coastal Village - Litoranea
Sakura Harbor - Cherries Harbor - Porto das cerejas
tamashii Sanctuary - Souls Sanctuary- Igreja das almas
Kokkyou Kawa - River Side - Beira Rio
Murakage - Citadel of Shadows - Cidadela das Sombras
Rakuen - Paradise - Paraiso
Kitarizoto - North Resort - Estancia Norte
Harisaki - The Needle Tip - Ponta de Agulha
Seinaru Kougen - Holy Plateau - Chapada Santa
Koufu - Miners village - Mineiros
Saikousai Temple - Supreme Temple - Templo Supremo
Ataishi - Valent Sity - Cidade Valente

Ooba zou - The statue of God Oba - Estauta de Oba

Sakura Sora - Sakuradite

The text in lower right side:

The Mines have a very special ore, Sakuradite. Used in forges for weapons are able to create a league almost unbreakable. In the West a mineral with similar properties is used as focus magic. The difference between the two ores are basically, the Mantis is used as the magic and Sakuradite is used in metal alloy.

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## - Max -

You have a lot of empty space on the map and the title and keys looks like spread randomly everywhere. What don't you use all that space to organize the title and the keys into some kind of japanese-like cartouches?

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## aquarits

well, dunno  :Smile: 
They aren't exactly keys, are just some observations about the clans and family in a map that will work like a picture in a frame. Compared with other maps that i found, didn't found many cartouches. I will not use keys cos the towns i draw representing the real form of the city, will not put this type of description, but i will think about it, since i am still working in how i will name the rivers and calculating the scale from my original map.
But i am thinking in not use a cartouche and i am not understanding the "randomly" that you said.

I am thinking in put a wooden frame outside the black space, but honestly dunno how to do it and how to start, almost asking to Bogie give me a idea. About name some areas, like give names for mountains, still cant find a type that fits with the plates that i used in towns, anything wrong if i just skip this and not name the places?

PS: 3 pictures and nobody saw the typos in FAMILYS lol

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## - Max -

Just sayd "keys " as generic names for all informations around the map. For now those informations blocks just look randomly put in my opnion and doesn't give a nice esthetical feeling to my eyes  :Wink:

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## aquarits

More Progress!

I dunno Max, i searched some other maps like what i want ( like a picture in a frame to set in a wall) and not found something like a cartouch to use. Trying use a cartouche i got my Clan and Families symbols to small and almost making me set thos icons in the lands, what i dont want. And using a cartouche made me few in the obligation to detail more about my town icons and maybe use roads. (thing that i am still thinking in use or not).

Still not approved the wooden border, and still dunno if it is cool, need some opinions. Here i wrote the land description:





> Always existed and always will exist, conflicts between the samurai clans and ninja families. For times, Shogun financed the military expeditions of the samurai and supported the  agricultural  maintenance of ninjas. However in certain era, samurai feel superior because imperial links and slowly began a conquest of the land ninjas.
> Without the Shogun's interference, ninjas gone be cornered because it lacked the military power compared with samurais. In the form of counter attack, the families ninjas blocked the agricultural supplies for the rest of the empire, which was very difficult times. Hunger and misery ravaged the land of Izumo, then the Shogun had to interfere in this conflict. Coming to close the war and establishing boundaries. This did not prevent small conflicts that still occur.
> In 250 BC, the imperial family had begun to lose its lineage, this time the Carp's Clan was best suited to succeed the throne. However the ninjas did not support this self dictatorship, because the Carp's Clan was one of the greatest ninjas inquisitors. This time that the things began to change. Kaede Hamada, leader of Eagle's Clan discovered one ore able to make their swords unbreakable. This changed the course of the war. With the support of the families ninjas quickly Hamada's popularity grew, but maybe not in the time required to exchange the Shogunate.
> With countless conflicts scattered Izumo, Sakuradite was quickly inserted into the everyday population, whether in war, whether in secular life. Source of energy and money, this ore was to take over the shogunate's hands from Hitoch Kaoshi, supreme leader of the Carp's Clan.
> A few months of the transfer of the Shogun's power, sellers silk from Nama Family found traces of Sakuradite in the Warlands. Hamada immediately reported to Hitama Kakochi , leader of Crane and arch enemy of the Carp. Hitama funded a millionaire expedition to the  Warlands with the intention to discovering if the rummors about Kaoshi really distributing Sakuradite by other continents.
> On the day of the procedure between the Shoguns, Hamada and Hitama invaded the imperial city, taking the throne and overthrowing the Carp's Clan forever. Hamada supported by the ninja families raised the Eagle's Clan for cutting, becoming the fourth Shogun promoted the clan of Izumo  in 303 BC. In 322 BC, Kiria Kaoshi become Shogun, descendant of the ancient imperial family and the Eagle's clan, this time already admitted with royal blood.
> During these 80 years on the throne changes, the conflict eased. Focused on the extraction of sakuradite, the 7 Ninja families and 5 Samurai clans were moved to set up their capital in large sources of this ore, and appointed by the emperor own extraction and in different areas of application for Sakuradite.
> Already at the end of your domain, Kaoshi determined the Sakura Law, that prohibited the marketing of Sakuradite with other continents. In 342 BC trying to eliminate the high rates of smuggling of the ore the Scorpion's Clan was appointed guardian of the law. Peacetime always been a thread of destruction, current Mamoto Mohio, ruler of the imperial city is sick and still in 416 BC still does not have a firstborn successor. This creates tension in families and clans because the Ascension of  a samurai clan can be one of the next decisions of the emperor, less than Mamoto Kuiky eldest daughter to take the throne and assume the position of empress.

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## - Max -

Hey Aquarits, I'm not saying that you necessarily have to use cartouches, just saying the whole placement of elements doesn't looks aesthetically good for me but that's just my two cents, maybe you need some other opinions :p

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## aquarits

right and about the rest?
specially the wooden borders

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## - Max -

Not myself very keen of realistic elements on hand-drawn style maps

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## Chashio

The corners are too dark on your frame (they should join seamlessly at the same height, not have an overlap with drop shadow, but you can put a shady line at the joint to make it appear as though they're not quite touching if you want it to look poorly made), and the repetition of the pattern bothers me a bit, you could also bump the lighting up on the inside edges some to appear more forward than the black matte. I would add a subtle texture to the black matte... a lighter texture (maybe set to overlay or linear dodge and low opacity) just so that the lighting matches the frame better (as if the same light is hitting it). My current commission map has a frame around it too.  :Wink: 

For the map info stuff, I might be tempted to put a neat line border around each chunk (top right, bottom left, and bottom right not including the circle, and maybe the title too) and perhaps add a low opacity white fill inside them to give them a little more polish. But that's me.

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## Chashio

> Not myself very keen of realistic elements on hand-drawn style maps


What about framing a hand-drawn map to hang on your wall? Same as a piece of art.  :Smile:  That's what he's doing, except it's hanging on the computer screen.

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## waldronate

Your question hits one of my pet peeves. The map is nice. the hand-drawn elements are well done. The labels and text look a little too perfect to go with the rest of the map, but it's not too bad. The background goes with the hand-drawn elements to give a relatively harmonious result. But the wood border turns it from a map to a picture of a map, in my opinion.

If the goal is to use this map as a handout for what someone would see looking at physical object that is a framed map, then it's a good image. If the goal is to be a map (an abstract representation of a place done for a specific purpose), then the wood border is irrelevant to the problem.

Creating the physical manifestation of the map (the drawing and labels and even the background, to some extent) is an artistic expression. Adding the black matting and wood border is a separate artistic expression, and one that I feel doesn't flow well with the rest of the image. If the descriptive text evoked a museum setting and was shown on an adjacent plaque or in some way presenting the idea that this map was a relic of the earlier period, then the border might be appropriate to the art piece, but it still wouldn't be part of the map.  In that latter case, I would recommend what I find to be another popular but ugly activity: tossing layers of grunge and apparent wear to make it clear that the image is a picture of a physical object that has a map on it. Maybe even some (shudder) fake folds.

Anyhow, I've had this rant before. It makes me sad when people take a nicely done map and try to "add ambiance" and just end up making it look weird to me.

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## waldronate

> What about framing a hand-drawn map to hang on your wall? Same as a piece of art.  That's what he's doing, except it's hanging on the computer screen.


The major elements of the map don't harmonize, though. The hand-drawn elements have a different character than the obviously mechanical labels, and the wood has completely different characteristics from the others. It looks a bit jumbled, which distracts me from the nice artwork in the main body of the map area.

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## Chashio

Ha. True enough. I think the grunging effects etc have become more popular as the digital medium becomes more common. People still like the look and feel of things that are created by hand and gain patinas of age and use. It deepens the story and intrigue as the item passes from hand to hand. I agree that most artists would blanch at the thought of 'grunging' a freshly finished piece of art; certainly it wasn't a traditional practice of cartographers and painters of old. But the Trompe l'oeil style has been around for a time too. If everything in the piece comes together at the end, creating a realistic frame can often bring the viewer more into the story, seeing the map as the character sees it displayed in the setting.    Another perspective, anyhow... my brother likes to eat peanut butter and pickle sandwiches. I don't.

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## aquarits

Probably i will skip the border, it was just a test and just wanted see the reaction using it. Maybe it can get better, but probably i still need some skill to make it fits with a primary image.




> The major elements of the map don't harmonize, though. The hand-drawn elements have a different character than the obviously mechanical labels, and the wood has completely different characteristics from the others. It looks a bit jumbled, which distracts me from the nice artwork in the main body of the map area.


You mean the boxes where i labeled. i felt it too, looks quite artificial, but i dunno how to improve it using Photoshop tools. Probably draw it manually?




> For the map info stuff, I might be tempted to put a neat line border around each chunk (top right, bottom left, and bottom right not including the circle, and maybe the title too) and perhaps add a low opacity white fill inside them to give them a little more polish. But that's me.


Max was trying to say something like this too, when i try use anytype of box, i lose the way that i am trying to follow. Look ths maps that i am using as reference, none using significant boxes

http://library.nao.ac.jp/kichou/arch...2776/00001.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WzN3JMZpmG...i+hokkaido.jpg
http://www.tanaka-kunitaka.net/takes...hi-1835/05.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3WPtYzcddk...18239_1632.jpg

Thank you all for the comments  :Smile:

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## Chashio

> when i try use anytype of box, i lose the way that i am trying to follow. Look ths maps that i am using as reference, none using significant boxes


Yeah. I think the problem might be that yours has a mix of eastern symbols and English. The vertical orientation of the other is very neat by itself, on the maps you referenced... they line up into rectangular chunks and look very ordered (they're also hand-inked), whereas the English is less so. And your picture symbols (hexes top right, rectangles bottom left) are another type of item. Putting the different "collections" into boxes would help to organize them. However....

If you really don't want boxes, I'd suggest centering those few English titles that are a tad off balance and then tracing all of the digital objects and text by hand so that everything is more cohesive. In fact, I suggest it even if you do use boxes.

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## aquarits

Check this now! Guess i am understanding what you guys are saying about organization.
I guess...

Thank you guys for all support

* changed the shape of the boxes of the labels ( made it manually)
* moved the icons
* labeled missing towns

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## - Max -

Better but I'd make a suggestion. I'd try to change map format, make it somewhat more square, put the map itself on the right (or the left , as you want ) and all the informations (title, samourai and nija things, things now in bottom right) on the other side vertically. So you' ll have a vertical dynamic with those informations that will graphically match both  the verticality of the map and of the parchments with japanese text.

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## aquarits

Looks anice idea Max, i tried it, Side by side for next step

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## Chashio

The left one is very pleasing to look at, to my eye. Better use of space.

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## - Max -

Yep the left is way better! Glad to have helped  :Smile:

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## Lezales

Very nice map. I really enjoy the artistic style and it's originality. Great work !

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## aquarits

Thanx, guess i am giving it as finished , the squared map , tnx everbody that helpd and i am still waiting opnions, and trying to work in some other thing. 

I tried this type of mountains for my new place.

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## Chashio

The map is nice, well done aquartis! 

The mountain forms get a bit mangled with such heavy shading on the nearest-to-the-light edges and on the peaks. Other than that, I like the style.

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## aquarits

Thanx guys!! And tnx Chashio to sat "well done", always dunno when the map is finished!
The finished Map thread is here: http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...gos-izumo.html

Now for this area is time to exercise some new challenges. Always having problens with borders, since my first map i was like dodging using simple borders, Max is always pushing me to make something better but i was focused in somethings in maps, wut not made me able to put my concentration in this.
This area is strongly influenced by angels. I have Valkyries, ppl that make sacrifices for angels and gods and a large area of a ruined old empire, devastated by the war btw gods, angels and mortals. Have 2 mystical areas with some faeries and hobbits. So this time i will try Schwarzkreuz's tip, work in a personal border for my map. Angels and Feathers basically.

Now going with my initial topo and including some textures. Still need understand wut Chashio said about the shading in mountains, that is why i included it in the map.

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## Schwarzkreuz

I like your crosshatch pattern on the mountains, are they scanned and than placed or a brush set of yours? Anyway, i would tone them down to a very dark brown, sometimes pure black is too distracting from the map itself and you endup with too hight contrasts.

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## Chashio

Basically what I was saying... it's hard to determine where the peaks are if you shade both sides of the mountains.

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## aquarits

Ok nice! I will try this dark brown way!




> I like your crosshatch pattern on the mountains, are they scanned and than placed or a brush set of yours?


Honestly i dunno where i got the brushes, i made a set with some that i found in everywhere and some i edited. But not they arent scanned.

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## Schwarzkreuz

I agree with her. If you want you could add some shading in the middle of the mountain to give it texture.

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## aquarits

> Basically what I was saying... it's hard to determine where the peaks are if you shade both sides of the mountains.


Oh nice! got it! Thank spending time editing my picture, its really clear now, easy to understand.

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## aquarits

That is right. Let me show something that i have working for my new map. The shape of the realm isnt that great still, is just the first step to start work.
Have some new icons that i am working too and want to show to get some sugestions. Made some simulations during the work to see how it will work, till now i am liking.

btw, posted the Lands of the Gods in finished maps : http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...tml#post224419

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## jfrazierjr

Nice smudge on those mountain shadows...I like that quite a bit..

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## aquarits

> Nice smudge on those mountain shadows...I like that quite a bit..


Dunno what you mean with smudge, if is using the Photoshop toll or give this effec is like a smudge  :Question:  coz i used only stokes, a lots of ehhehe. 
Thank you very much for the feed back i appreciate it.

Now get back to work, and i have some progress with the map. Some advance in the map and the possible cartouche with the font that i will use.
Time to say something  :Smile:   :Very Happy:   :Evil:

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## jfrazierjr

> Dunno what you mean with smudge, if is using the Photoshop toll or give this effec is like a smudge  coz i used only stokes, a lots of ehhehe. 
> Thank you very much for the feed back i appreciate it.


The "smudge" tool(I use GIMP, but I believe PS using the same term).   It's a way to "drag" a color and is typically used for blending two different elements.   Lot's of artists use this technique with colored charcoals and a number of classical paint artists use it via dry brushing.   In computer generated art, there are other ways to get the same effects, but I prefer the smudge tool most of the time.

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## jfrazierjr

> Dunno what you mean with smudge, if is using the Photoshop toll or give this effec is like a smudge  coz i used only stokes, a lots of ehhehe. 
> Thank you very much for the feed back i appreciate it.
> 
> Now get back to work, and i have some progress with the map. Some advance in the map and the possible cartouche with the font that i will use.
> Time to say something



For this map(nice start by the way!), I would suggest using some blur on the mountains/towns.  The sharp lines stand out in contrast to the very muted lines on the land shapes.  Either that, or sharpen up the details on the land shape, but IMHO, that would ruin the effect on the coastline(which looks REALLY nice) that I assume are intended to indicate waves...

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## aquarits

> The "smudge" tool(I use GIMP, but I believe PS using the same term).   It's a way to "drag" a color and is typically used for blending two different elements.


Right, i understood now, but i not used the tool, was a lots of brushes, till get the resulta that i liked. I tryed some times here (after you say) but guess with brushes and eraser i can get a better control.




> For this map(nice start by the way!), I would suggest using some blur on the mountains/towns.  The sharp lines stand out in contrast to the very muted lines on the land shapes.  Either that, or sharpen up the details on the land shape, but IMHO, that would ruin the effect on the coastline(which looks REALLY nice) that I assume are intended to indicate waves...


i tried some blur, but guess i not understood wut you said right. You mean just fot the contour lines? like giving some transparency?

I will try more things after some more feed back.
For now, i send some more progress. I started to see how the Legend will be and tried some dark trees, that i gave up using in a big forest.

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## aquarits

Here some more progress.
Finished all the shape and mountains position, made the big forests and worked with rivers. Still working in the finishing texture, but showing here waiting for some opinions. I got the border and a started legend ( what need more information and typos correction, i believe) and testing the labels ( what i really want some feed back).

The pictures are the shields, that i am developing something to use in the future maps (wut put me in the wall to ask about some heraldic techniques, need to learn how it work and is a bit hard to find a proper information) and the current advance in the map.

still not clear wut "jfrazierjr" said to me, but set more black lines to avoid the only icons and mountains details.

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## Ilanthar

I like a lot this last one!

Very nice job on the forests, colors and presentation!
I think your shields could be improved by a layer effect or by working colors/lights.

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## Chashio

Yes, that last one is fabulous! I love all the details you've added, in the map and in the legends. The info is all very intriguing  :Smile:

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## aquarits

Ilanthar, you are absolutely right about the shields. I tried some more effects, but got a problem changing the size of the shield. When i make it small, guess losing some resolution and the shield got completely messed. That is why i avoid the effects to get it better in the legend.

Some more progress.
I guess that almost got what i really wanted to draw since i joined in the CG, i am really happy with this map, at last i found a style that i can just work to improve (if check this thread and my albums will see that i tried a lots). Dunno if i am silly, but i liked a lots the compass with the globe, wut probly will be the mark of my maps from Egos (uploaded the symbol).

For this update applied the last elements, labeled everything (i guess). 
The tracks still in progress. I have Roads, Trails, Fight tracks and Railroads... omg they are overlapping the way. I put it in the update waiting for critiques. Ty.

BTW  :Very Happy:  just checked my rep and i saw:




> "aquarits is just really nice (354)"


ehhehe, nice!

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## Ilanthar

> *Posted by aquarits*
> I tried some more effects, but got a problem changing the size of the shield. When i make it small, guess losing some resolution and the shield got completely messed.


Do you apply the effect before or after resizing? Sometimes, the result is quite different. And did you try different resizing (bilinear, bicubic, number of pixels...)?




> *Posted by aquarits*
> That is why i avoid the effects to get it better in the legend.


Anyhow, I really understand and agree with that, and the map is already nice!

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## aquarits

Guess it is done, can you check and give me the last words?

Ilanthar: i applied the effects before re-size. doing it in the final size, you right, i can get better results, but, check the size of the shields in the legend, do you believe that i need apply more effects at this size? (i am asking coz i will use a tons of shields in my next job)

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## Ilanthar

Well, I think it's a question of personal taste!

A large part of your effects on the shields are the shadows, right? I tend to use the paper texture if I want a "old" or "drawn" result and often merge the layers with this kind of effects (quick try from your own work) : 


Otherwise, I apply three or four layer for each shield/flag (bottom up) : the background (shield or flag, properly), sometimes an aging/stained pattern, the colors and drawings, the shadows (for the shields).

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## aquarits

Brother, in my case too far to decide what is the personal taste  :Smile:  
I want to know what is right and the best, still a long way to understand what is the best w.o orientation. You opened my eyes to apply the effects after i resize, wut helped a lots and the shields not get messed like i did before.
I appreciate all observations, thank you very much spending time editing my images making samples, it helped me a lots  :Smile: 

i tried some effects like you said, using the background as base for they. In the image 1 i have the original idea in high resolution and the others, one mixing "multiply" plus a hatch texture and other with "overlay".
I made a lots of tries... still liking more the "no effect", liked the sample 2 too. Creepy doubt heheh!

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## Ilanthar

You're very welcome, I'm glad to help!

I am almost as fond of flags and heraldry as of maps. Consequently, I've already past a lot of time to improve my own techniques in that matter.
I think you're right : your number 2 is the better one  :Wink:  According to me, it has the better balance color/contrast and a good look.

In fact, in my sample, I used "multiply" and "clear mask" on the second. But I didn't get the good colors and the best resolution of texture/shields. I already prefered the "multiply" effect though!

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## aquarits

Oh yeah, I thought that, you not "get the good colors" coz you get a shield with some applied effects. I worked with the first draws, with none of the first effects to pollute the final view.

But you did the best, showing me the way to do this  :Smile:

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## aquarits

Here is the background story about the area. I am not uploading the last map waiting some more observations.

But i have some more work about this new style. I want to make more maps using it and try improve the style. First step is make it smooth for use. In Valdor i got a file with 2,4 gb... its crazy while processing. Getting more experience with the new style to draw the shapes. So, for my world i will need 3 regions using a iced environment, better i start to practice. "Ice, Ice babe"
Starting, i upload the topo with the basic shape, the globe that i will use in my compass, the border layout and the first try using few elements (trying get a cold felling).
Have some job to do, cos after the the real river and mountains positions, i got new politic, geographic and economy reasons to set in new positions the 3 orc realms and the dark elf empire.


**Valdorn background** 



> The best ideas comes from a war and Valdorn know that, transformed magic , engineering and curse in weapons to defend themselves . The protection of " free lands of the North" was given by atypical conditions . Sentenced by a curse the people of the district passed for difficult times. When your leader " Austin Barithon " fought their conflicts with the " Creatures of the Night" he was cursed to never see the light of day . The Queen " Elizabeth Valdorn " sent her forces to aid the district leader , a parallel task force secretly sent to the extermination of this evil plague.
> Led by " Carl Marlirs " , the task of the troops was to enter the gates of hell and defeat the fearsome " Sucumbus " . At this time , " Iris " , the fearsome threat , plotting to take the capital.
> Disconsolate by not find the leader of the " Creatures of the Night " , " Carl " and his band returned to the castle of the capital to find the queen in an emergency meeting in the galleries of the castle . " Lester Tylor " with " Austin Barithon " joined forces to present the queen a weapon to drestroy a fearsome foe : Engineering .
> Projects for the development of new weapons and equipment for combat, would need six months to be ready . In times of war on land of " Valdorian " this would be an eternity . Led by the Queen herself , the soldiers of the capital upheld the defenses throughout the time required for Lester and Austin could counterattack. They did not disappoint , however had to pay a price .
> Before being destroyed " Sucumbus Iris " the Queen was imprisoned in a crystal block putting in all the land of mayhem Valdorn . In the midst of this hell " Carl Marlirs " took the reins of the empire to find a solution to the curse that dominated the queen . His son " Seth Marlirs " still cares for the welfare of the kingdom .
> Recently, "Black Rose " lands of " Austin " were given as free . " Seth " and " Austin " believe that the black blood of their land may weaken the power of Valdorn be continued under the same monarch . The immortal " Austin " swear allegiance to the crown of Valdorn until the queen is free from the curse and that her grandson " Solon Valdorn " can take the throne.

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## aquarits

Some more progress. More elements and some Labels.

My Work flow is a bit messed coz i have to respect my hand limitation ( 30 min working = 30 min relaxing and 2 hours out of combat  :Smile:  ) and ideas come out and need to wait till it get back.

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## aquarits

Some more progress. Guess almost done.

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## aquarits

Its done. 
Using my free 30 mins to work, i started other  :Very Happy:  Just improving the same style. Following the basic layout.





> The human city in the Continent of Sharaon. Blackwinter is leaded by Corossus Flouren since 303 ab. holding the borders with lands of the Orcs from Ondara end the Dark elves from Velun. A weak comercial alliance sustain the relationship between the fours realms. Suported by Valdorn, Blackwinter can use the airplanes technology to make business with the other sides of the world. The ship force is other strong point of this nation, that can make safe the borders ensuring the protection of the two Vertex in the island.
> Velun and Ondara (that is formed by two tribes, Ondara and Broamir) sustain a alliance holding the safe of the Northern Vortex, used in the mystical rituals to provide forces to the endless war against Veloria. Nowdays some agrrements are discused with Tristania and Valdorn, to make a alliance in a possible war for the lands where the Railroad need to pass to conect the two continents. Whispering in a secrect, Randoria more south can allie to Veloria, what is making a tense negotiation between all involved realms.

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## - Max -

The background texture on the right image attached is very bad quality and way too much pixellated.

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## aquarits

yeah, i saved in the lower quality, just for a preview, like the first view of the shape that i get from my "world map" vector ( you know, just to see the area that i will detail and scaling). I am having problems with the file size, losing quality to get it near to 4mb.

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## - Max -

ah ok that makes sense.

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## aquarits

Hello again.

Got few time since my last check in the CG, i have to say that i miss you all, after 1 year here i made friends  :Very Happy:  but i was forced to make a choice to not use Internet for a while thnx to my other 2 surgerys in my right hand.
Taking out the pain, everthing is going fine  :Very Happy: 

Well, passint this time out, i made other map and posting it before start a new work. I feel good with this one that opened my mind for other sources and made me improve my style.
Defitly i love this font ( Arno_Pro), my trees and the template that i use in to get more effects, The borders are getting better i guess, the icons and labels maybe few touchs till i think that is nice and thos mountains now gave me a new direction to learn that i am liking.

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## fabio p

May I say this thread is one of the most motivating and inspiring of the entire forum? 

And maybe your maps are not perfect (for example, something is not convincing me in the coastlines of Tristania) but they are so rich and artistically engaging, they are a joy to be explored.

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## Ilanthar

Glad to see you back!

I love the design and your mountains on this one! And your icons are still awesome.

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## Lorenzo3

Notei que seu mapa está em português, você é brasileiro ou português? eu sou braslieiro. bem, eu achei o seu mapa muito bom, continue assim, está muito bem feito e estimula muito a imaginação!
-
I noticed that your map is in Portuguese, you are Brazilian or Portuguese? I'm Brazilian. well, I liked your map, it's very good, keep it up, is very well done, stimulates the imagination!

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## aquarits

> May I say this thread is one of the most motivating and inspiring of the entire forum? 
> 
> And maybe your maps are not perfect (for example, something is not convincing me in the coastlines of Tristania) but they are so rich and artistically engaging, they are a joy to be explored.


Thx for the kindly words, i really aprecciate it. My maps now are taking a lots of time and sometimes i need to stop and missing what i was doing, messing all the map style.What specific you mean about the coast lines?




> And maybe your maps are not perfect


Not yet  :Very Happy: 




> Glad to see you back!I love the design and your mountains on this one! And your icons are still awesome.


You dont have idea how is nice see thos words about my mountains. I was working and trying get something nice since i started map ( ask -Max- that helped me in my first steps)I believe that mountains are the post card of any map, maybe coz of the size, my eyes always look for the mountains before other things. I am really happy with that style of mountains and will try use again in my next job, want to improve and check if wasnt lucky  :Very Happy: 




> Notei que seu mapa está em português, você é brasileiro ou português? eu sou braslieiro. bem, eu achei o seu mapa muito bom, continue assim, está muito bem feito e estimula muito a imaginação!


Bom ver Brazucas rodando a guilda aqui, tem uma galera perdida ai  :Smile: 
Meus mapas nasceram e portugues para definir o lay out basico, mas agora ja ta tomando o rumo definitivo.
Valeu pelos elogios e estou acompanhando o seu City Mapping  :Smile: 


Heheh, Lorenzo made me remember my first maps, when i was doing all in portuguese, after a year mapping is that wut i got  :Smile: 
This is the first lay out that i have working. The intention is just show  the 2 poles of Egos and some , believe intersting places  for some ppl, coz rarely someone come to this places. In notrh i have some old and ancient ppl living, but nobody cares and they dont give a **** for this, in south some sanctuarys where only some religious leaders go to make some secret events, use drugs or orgys  :Smile: 
The cool thing is the chalenge is work with a map where i have nothing to show, lets see wut i can do to make it intersting. BTW i worked with ice in my last 2 maps preparing to make, wut in beggin i planned 2 maps, but wanted some different lay out, starting work with projections.

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## - Max -

Is it me or the land shapes looks very blurry?
By the way, interesting stuff on the previous map (though the mountains labels are barely legible)

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## aquarits

VERY!!!
Its just the "basic lay out" dat o got from my master shape and resized.
Gimme few days and I will post the final shape dat I am working.

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## Ilanthar

> *By aquarits*
> Its just the "basic lay out"


You're modest! It's a good one. Pendragon? A king of kings in the lands of Fagacea?




> *By aquarits*
> Gimme few days and I will post the final shape dat I am working.


Take your time and make it awesome  :Very Happy:

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## aquarits

I have the master shape of the whole world, its based in vectors coz of the size of the file. I pick a area and re-work the shape in the current map, making some improvments and sometimes some modifications.
Look one of the first shapes and the last level:




First Idea
Current Shape




not a surprise when -Max- said that is blurry, cos i just got the stroked vector and resized and worked with some borders and positions in the screen, not worring about the shape atm, so i can start the map with a idea of the final that i want. Right now i am experiencing some issues with projections that i will post when i sure about that.




> Pendragon? A king of kings in the lands of Fagacea?


I can tell you a short brefing about it. Legacy of Pengradon, was one of my RPG campaign with like 6 chapters, Frozen Tears is probly one that i will not play, but i am trying to write it and it will happen in Egos.
To undertand the Deitys hierarchy you must take a look in this:



Pendragon ( yes the same used in the Arthur tales, remember my three worlds are conected) created some holy gifs, blessed from a lesser god that lived in the heavens to face the evil in Egos. Nobody know if Harsgal was created by Yahweh in Tsafon or is a pure soul that found the light, but for sure the own Archangels ( the most power creatures of the cosmos, the first creatures created by Yahweh in the beggin of existance) fear this deity.
As deity of the balance and justice, Harsgalt forced the cosmo to create a oposite force to balance the things. Where enter Marduk that live in the lower levels of the cosmos, locked to act only in Egos.
Thos 2 deitys fight each other in Egos for ages, Harsgalt lost the last battle, getting locked in Second heaven, but cursing Marduk to be a prisioner in Limbo and just come back from time in time. When Marduk come back, Harsgalt summon the paladins in Egos to face dat dark power.

This chapter got this name, coz the tears of a frozem body do the countdown of the end of the times. Part of this, i will show in the south pole of this map  :Very Happy:

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## Ilanthar

Nice sketch and dense story, I'm gonna read happily. And I already can see that I'm not the only one to build big rpg setting without being sure it will be actually played...

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## aquarits

> By the way, interesting stuff on the previous map (though the mountains labels are barely legible)


Yes, you are talking about the rivers. I am still with problens when need to resize the map to get a fine resolution to post in the forum. I will take care in this next map using larger fonts trying to avoid this issue.




> And I already can see that I'm not the only one to build big rpg setting without being sure it will be actually played...


That sucks. I learned live with that, my last big RPG session was like 15 years ago, after that i started to move from place to place, not living more than 2 years. With that is hard get a team to play huge historys how i like.

Lets get some move.
Well i started to work in the lay out of the map and changing the shapes, started with the north, the one in the left side. Almost in the end of the whole shape,  anxious to start the second ( wanted get ready ASAP to the minor maps), when just tried to check the scale of the map. I remember in this thread Hai filling my mind in my firsts steps about wrong projections and noticed something wrong.




> An Equidistant Cylindrical map of a full globe should have an aspect ratio of 2:1 or less.  Also, it's not a good projection for final maps, of a full globe OR for a region.  It's mostly something you use as an intermediary step of for storing raw data before projecting it for a finished map.  The projection produces particularly unpleasant looking distortion by stretching things out horizontally near the poles.





> Also, you can't measure distance on a global map except in certain specific conditions.  For instance, you can only measure distance on a Normal Equidistant Cylindrical map north-south, or if you stay fairly close to the standard parallels.  Projections that have a geometric "projection surface" will preserve distances where they have the projection surface close to the surface of the globe and will distort it where the two surfaces diverge.  So that's the Standard Parallels of Cylindrical and Conic projections, and the centre of Azimuthal projections.


Wasnt able to scale properly in a plane scale and started to see how hard was to finish the shapes and ****! The projection is wrong! Just wanted something like this:




> Attachment 36197
> Attachment 36196


Well, i knew that i am wrong and just finished the shape to not get something unfinished.



In beggin i used a Ortographic Projection wut gave me a nice visual view, but in the end wut i really wanted was something more plane. Azimuthal almost gave me it, but checking with the shape of my map, the scale not respected all dimensions, so in the end i found Equiretangular Oblique Projection, and nice!
Lol my realms of Velun e Ondara almost deasapiared in this new projection. So, looking good with the shape, gotta start the mountains.
I will not get much rivers here, but i started like draw mountains before rivers so i can do adaptations in the form avoiding overlap, but i already have a sketch of the rivers and roads (wut not mean that they will appear a lots in this version).
I am few days i will come back with more, i will apreciate the feed back coz tnx to the pain i cant re-do many times the same draw  :Very Happy: 

Lastest WIP follow with new projections.

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## - Max -

> Yes, you are talking about the rivers. I am still with problens when need to resize the map to get a fine resolution to post in the forum. I will take care in this next map using larger fonts trying to avoid this issue.


No I was talking about the mountains labels. But you're right, rivers labels aren't really legible aswell  :Razz:

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## aquarits

> No I was talking about the mountains labels. But you're right, rivers labels aren't really legible aswell


you right, now i understood and fixed before the finished map  :Very Happy:  
http://www.cartographersguild.com/fi...tml#post237440


For now i added my mountains and some deph features. I liked this mountains, ofc i used other maps as inspirations but in the end i guess i found something of my own creation  :Very Happy:  Probly i will use it for my other maps till i am doing Egosm so i am trying to retry and have the sure that i can do it.
I skiped the minor maps for now, trying to focus only in the region, worked in the background of the ice, hope it is giving a cold feling.



After i get the positions of the mountains i believe finished the sticked places of the land. So i started set the cities.
Why i did it before the rives? At start i tried put my rivers, but stand of the hardest situation that i got since beggin, the scale of this map is completely diferent of my older maps and i have some variations coz i am not using a completely plane shape, wut guides me for a future question: How i will stale this map using a non planar projection? ( hope some observations about that, but is not the point to worrie right now)
With that situation i started set all cities before rivers and got a closely properly positions and just after this, i started work with the rivers and make some icons positions adjustments. At this point i stoped for a few mins and prayed to god saying thx for not having much rivers to set up in this map  :Cool: 
Only after all this job i started put the trees, trying to respect the max the position of my old maps.



I just added some standard textures and finishings just to start to see how it is going on. Dunno if the oceans will keep this color coz i want to add some freezing effect and maybe i need something more strong, like a deep blue. I have some other textures prepared for use but is for the next time  :Smile:

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## - Max -

If this map is your whole world map, the scale of mountains, rivers and other elements looks very odd. All appears very big on it.

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## aquarits

it is just the map of the 2 poles, not the whole world. North in the left side and south in the right.
The hemispheres you can see in the minor maps, the ocident is in the upper map and the other is my east side.

Still a problem?

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## - Max -

I don't know, the elements looks out of scale, the mountains looks like almost the same size as in your regional maps while the scale is obviously bigger.

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## aquarits

It is a regional map, talking about area i can show the planar projection that i used. The area in this map is like the same that i used before, maybe the global view is giving a strange impression?
Look at base projections




The scale factor do not change a lots from my other maps, for this one i am using 1 mark as 55 km ( maybe adjusting for 50 km to be better to read).
i aprecciate the observations and pls  :Very Happy:  i just stoped draw this trying to see wut you are saying

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## aquarits

I guess i understood wut Max said, but if i make the icons small they will not looks fine, i guess  :Smile: 
This update i finished with all icons and tracks, like i said in beggin, i have not many things to 

show in this place, well, they are poles, nobody wants to live there ... i think lol

I started to work in ocean effect, but still need work in the coast of the entire map. But is is for 

the next update.

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