# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  Large Dungeon Near College Town

## XCali

Hi! 

Pen version 1


I did think about just finishing this as best I could on my own before posting it to several RPG stores, but then I could not help myself wondering about certain things about this project. I want this to be a really useful supplement to people playing an RPG.

So, my questions, Number *1*, is it something that would intrigue DMs/GMs to use in their games. Number *2* In a version, what kind of things would be most appreciated in the caverns, objects wise, or encounter wise even? Number *3*, How would you like me to present the Labeling of the map's DM/GM version and/or player version, just numbers, with a legend, Names?

I would really appreciate feedback on those points. Truly.  :Smile:  

Two part set
### Latest WIP ###
(These two versions are smaller by more than half than the main files.)

The large dungeon and part of the town.


The College grounds


Let me know what you think,
Omri

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## XCali

Hi everyone,  :Smile: 

Today, I wanted to start to add some things to the map. A tent for weary dungeoneers, which the discover is abandoned, but it is a safe area after all the deadly encounters they faced so far. 
Also, added a tree across a deep body of water and some ruins outside the underground area. A few extra titbits as well.

My questions of the previous post remains. 

### Latest WIP ###

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## Adfor

Oh I just love that you added on to that college you made! Cave maps have always been one of my favorites, being some of my earliest map creations for DnD, so you've got my heart here.

First, being outside a bustling college, are the administrators (even students) aware of this cave? If so, are they aware of the secret looking door to the back section? This could lead the cave's outline in different directions depending on how you answer it, because if they do know about it, are they secretly operating out of it, as well? Do they hide a secret there? Also, if they do operate out of it, this answers my 3rd question, or atleast tweeks it.

Second, cave maps are always fun for combat encounters, being in such close quarters, and adding in obstacles to be used by both PC's and monsters to add different aspects of tactics, such as bars of unpassable stalagmites/tites, or a body of water, can really help make them interesting. Also, having enemies with different strengths, such as an enemy on a high rise at the other side of the room with a bow lobbing arrows at the PCs at every step, can really spice up an encounter as well.

Third, what inhabits this cave? This question can be answered usually in either a static, or dynamic way. By static I mean such as a bugbear colony, they operate out of this cave, and that doesn't really change; or dynamic, such as more than one type of creature may be involved. But you always at least want a base reason for them being there in the first place.

I normally just stick with room numbers, roman numerals having always been my favorite touch.

I hope this helps!

IR

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## XCali

> Oh I just love that you added on to that college you made! Cave maps have always been one of my favorites, being some of my earliest map creations for DnD, so you've got my heart here.
> 
> First, being outside a bustling college, are the administrators (even students) aware of this cave? If so, are they aware of the secret looking door to the back section? This could lead the cave's outline in different directions depending on how you answer it, because if they do know about it, are they secretly operating out of it, as well? Do they hide a secret there? Also, if they do operate out of it, this answers my 3rd question, or atleast tweeks it.
> 
> Second, cave maps are always fun for combat encounters, being in such close quarters, and adding in obstacles to be used by both PC's and monsters to add different aspects of tactics, such as bars of unpassable stalagmites/tites, or a body of water, can really help make them interesting. Also, having enemies with different strengths, such as an enemy on a high rise at the other side of the room with a bow lobbing arrows at the PCs at every step, can really spice up an encounter as well.
> 
> Third, what inhabits this cave? This question can be answered usually in either a static, or dynamic way. By static I mean such as a bugbear colony, they operate out of this cave, and that doesn't really change; or dynamic, such as more than one type of creature may be involved. But you always at least want a base reason for them being there in the first place.
> 
> I normally just stick with room numbers, roman numerals having always been my favorite touch.
> ...


It definitely helps! Thank you! 

1. I can write it either way really. It depends on what would make the most compelling plotline for an adventure, what do you think?
    For the time being, the story in my mind starts with the dungeon's bottom entrance has only very recently opened up letting some beasties into the forest. The College is busy giving a class in the forest when the first attack happens. Parallel to that, one of teachers at the College had started acting strange a while back, leaving others suspicious what his/her research was what they were muttering about often. (Thus the secret hall and room at the top of the map.)
Now, the College can then send in a team to discover what is going on. There are quite a few secrets to this seemingly peaceful part of the land.
I would like your thoughts on what would make the best hook for an adventure. (Super thanks in advance to any leaving their thoughts.)

2. This is actually the area which I am a bit more in the dark about, I have only played DnD a precious few times and none of those ventured into a cave yet. So, my experience is a bit limited, I can only add what others think would be best I add at the moment. (The stalagmites/tites and water I can experiment already. But the rest is still me learning what makes a cave/dungeon compelling.

3. Same as above, and the fact that I have never DM'd leaves a bit on the wondering side. Though the room numbers or labels is probably my only option in that regard at the moment. I do, however, plan on making several versions for the set. Day, Night, Dusk. With and without numbers ect. All to give DM/ GM's the best shot at making a cool adventure in this area.


Again thank so much for taking the time, I really do appreciate it.  :Very Happy:

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## Adfor

> It definitely helps! Thank you! 
> 
> 1. I can write it either way really. It depends on what would make the most compelling plotline for an adventure, what do you think?
>     For the time being, the story in my mind starts with the dungeon's bottom entrance has only very recently opened up letting some beasties into the forest. The College is busy giving a class in the forest when the first attack happens. Parallel to that, one of teachers at the College had started acting strange a while back, leaving others suspicious what his/her research was what they were muttering about often. (Thus the secret hall and room at the top of the map.)
> Now, the College can then send in a team to discover what is going on. There are quite a few secrets to this seemingly peaceful part of the land.
> I would like your thoughts on what would make the best hook for an adventure. (Super thanks in advance to any leaving their thoughts.)
> 
> 2. This is actually the area which I am a bit more in the dark about, I have only played DnD a precious few times and none of those ventured into a cave yet. So, my experience is a bit limited, I can only add what others think would be best I add at the moment. (The stalagmites/tites and water I can experiment already. But the rest is still me learning what makes a cave/dungeon compelling.
> 
> ...


Glad I could be of assistance!

You have many options for getting the attention of the PCs, so I wouldn't necessarily say there is a "best" way to do this. On a basic level, you have a hook just in the sheer fact that a mysterious new cave has opened up recently. This draws the attention of dungeon delvers and archaeologists alike, especially being just outside of a college, which normally serves secondarily as a hub for news. You also have a hook in that the professor has been acting strange, which could easily tie into the mysterious new cave. If you plan on using an attack to get the attention of the PCs, it could be spun into the former two as the initial hook, which could work well to bring a multifaceted angle to it, allowing the GM/DM a couple options for intrigue. The attack could even be how the GM/DM introduces the PCs to your setting. "As the grand crown of the college crests the hill, you can faintly hear cries of distress in the distance".

As far as how to decorate it, my best advice would be to keep it to simple outline. Who/what resides there? This answers most of the questions about what physical means are held there, and combined with how you decide to spin the professor acting strange, there could be many options. Is the professor actually a cult leader who has been secretly operating in the cave, and a portion of the faculty/students are a part of that cult? This is just an example, but shows how the college could be involved in some way. It doesn't even have to be evil, say the professor has stumbled upon an ominous secret inside the cave, and knowing this dreadful knowledge has him on edge, givien the implications. This could give the PCs some information gathering role playing options. Maybe his mind was hijacked by an artifact he found in the cave, say an ancient tiara, that he has not adorned himself with, until now. This could lead the PCs to eventually find a means to remove the tiara, which normally is an unremovable cursed artifact. The options are truly unlimited, just remember, always simple, never complicated.

Generally, caves are pretty abstract, lending to the idea that there is no one set path, especially when a chamber could have multiple entries/exits. You may not even want to include room numbers. What may work better, are events/notable areas listed by A.) B.) etc.

Again, I hope this helps. I feel like my 18 years of learning to design dungeons could convey nicely into a tutorial, I may just have to sit down and write one..

Cheers!

IR

PS: Make sure you have a solid motivation for the PCs to be doing what they're doing.

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## XCali

> Glad I could be of assistance!
> 
> You have many options for getting the attention of the PCs, so I wouldn't necessarily say there is a "best" way to do this. On a basic level, you have a hook just in the sheer fact that a mysterious new cave has opened up recently. This draws the attention of dungeon delvers and archaeologists alike, especially being just outside of a college, which normally serves secondarily as a hub for news. You also have a hook in that the professor has been acting strange, which could easily tie into the mysterious new cave. If you plan on using an attack to get the attention of the PCs, it could be spun into the former two as the initial hook, which could work well to bring a multifaceted angle to it, allowing the GM/DM a couple options for intrigue. The attack could even be how the GM/DM introduces the PCs to your setting. "As the grand crown of the college crests the hill, you can faintly hear cries of distress in the distance".
> 
> As far as how to decorate it, my best advice would be to keep it to simple outline. Who/what resides there? This answers most of the questions about what physical means are held there, and combined with how you decide to spin the professor acting strange, there could be many options. Is the professor actually a cult leader who has been secretly operating in the cave, and a portion of the faculty/students are a part of that cult? This is just an example, but shows how the college could be involved in some way. It doesn't even have to be evil, say the professor has stumbled upon an ominous secret inside the cave, and knowing this dreadful knowledge has him on edge, givien the implications. This could give the PCs some information gathering role playing options. Maybe his mind was hijacked by an artifact he found in the cave, say an ancient tiara, that he has not adorned himself with, until now. This could lead the PCs to eventually find a means to remove the tiara, which normally is an unremovable cursed artifact. The options are truly unlimited, just remember, always simple, never complicated.
> 
> Generally, caves are pretty abstract, lending to the idea that there is no one set path, especially when a chamber could have multiple entries/exits. You may not even want to include room numbers. What may work better, are events/notable areas listed by A.) B.) etc.
> 
> Again, I hope this helps. I feel like my 18 years of learning to design dungeons could convey nicely into a tutorial, I may just have to sit down and write one..
> ...


That is incredibly useful. It gives a good idea to how I can go about writing adventure hooks that can have multiple options in approach. Thanks, really.

My biggest dilemma basically is, I'm not the one who is going to DM/GM this adventure, I'm creating this set of maps for many other DMs/GMs to pick up and run the adventure. Again, I have never DM'd a game. So, that is why I want to gather as much information about how to approach this map set as possible. Hope it makes sense.  :Razz: 

Again thank you for the tips!  :Very Happy:

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## XCali

Hello! 

Today, I got to experimenting with the smaller details of the map. I added a pool with strange green fog boiling out of it. Also, I furnished the secret study up top. And added a bigger underground lake to the left bottom.

Let me know your thoughts.

### Latest WIP ###

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## Adfor

> That is incredibly useful. It gives a good idea to how I can go about writing adventure hooks that can have multiple options in approach. Thanks, really.
> 
> My biggest dilemma basically is, I'm not the one who is going to DM/GM this adventure, I'm creating this set of maps for someone else to pick up and run the adventure. Again, I have never DM'd a game. So, that is why I want to gather as much information about how to approach this map set as possible. Hope it makes sense. 
> 
> Again thank you for the tips!


My pleasure!

If you're collaborating with others, I'd suggest sitting down with the DM, and just hash out some of the things that they want to do/pursue in their campaign, that could maybe tie into this adventure. You could even include the players in that conversation, since they are the ones who more or less make up the bulk of the story, being the ones in the spotlight. Having a clear idea of wants and needs for both the DM and players would be extremely helpful in creating your outline, even if it's just what type of monsters the DM would like to run.

Personally I think it would be really cool to have the cave lead to a since segregated basement of the college, that even the administration has no idea about. Stirring up dust that hasn't been disturbed in ages is always a mesmerizing way to roll out a dungeon. "As the rough hued stone door slowly shifts downward upon your touch, a great gust of air sucks inward as the slab begins to lower. The stale air russells a thick layer of dust that is apparent upon the floor, indicating clearly that this chamber hasn't been disturbed in a very long time."

Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with on your dungeon-making endeavors.  :Very Happy: 

IR

PS: The newest update looks great, keep it up!

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## XCali

> My pleasure!
> 
> If you're collaborating with others, I'd suggest sitting down with the DM, and just hash out some of the things that they want to do/pursue in their campaign, that could maybe tie into this adventure. You could even include the players in that conversation, since they are the ones who more or less make up the bulk of the story, being the ones in the spotlight. Having a clear idea of wants and needs for both the DM and players would be extremely helpful in creating your outline, even if it's just what type of monsters the DM would like to run.
> 
> Personally I think it would be really cool to have the cave lead to a since segregated basement of the college, that even the administration has no idea about. Stirring up dust that hasn't been disturbed in ages is always a mesmerizing way to roll out a dungeon. "As the rough hued stone door slowly shifts downward upon your touch, a great gust of air sucks inward as the slab begins to lower. The stale air russells a thick layer of dust that is apparent upon the floor, indicating clearly that this chamber hasn't been disturbed in a very long time."
> 
> Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with on your dungeon-making endeavors. 
> 
> IR
> ...


As I know only one DM personally, the collaborating thing is still just a pipe dream. No, I'm creating this for other DMs/GMs to use out in the world.  :Smile: 

The cave ending up below the college is a great idea! Thanks! I will do that as another map that shows what is below ground on the College map itself.

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## XCali

Here is my progress with adding more elevation in the dungeon. Also, added several books, a large monster skull to one of the chambers and whatnot.  :Smile: 
Let me know what you think?

### Latest WIP ###

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## Adfor

> As I know only one DM personally, the collaborating thing is still just a pipe dream. No, I'm creating this for other DMs/GMs to use out in the world. 
> 
> The cave ending up below the college is a great idea! Thanks! I will do that as another map that shows what is below ground on the College map itself.


Well shucks! I'm glad you like it.

I like the elevation work, but it's a little hard to tell what is supposed to be low and high terrain. I supposed you could make a legend, but I've always been a fan of easily legible elevations. Even something as simple as a numerical representation could really help distinguish what is high and low.

I'll see if I can dig up some old cave maps of mine to show you want I mean.

IR

Edit: Here's a decent example of some of my cave/ruin work. Keep in mind that this was a dungeon I ran for a group, so it still has all the monster placements and such, and still remains fairly unfinished.

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## XCali

> Well shucks! I'm glad you like it.
> 
> I like the elevation work, but it's a little hard to tell what is supposed to be low and high terrain. I supposed you could make a legend, but I've always been a fan of easily legible elevations. Even something as simple as a numerical representation could really help distinguish what is high and low.
> 
> I'll see if I can dig up some old cave maps of mine to show you want I mean.
> 
> IR
> 
> Edit: Here's a decent example of some of my cave/ruin work. Keep in mind that this was a dungeon I ran for a group, so it still has all the monster placements and such, and still remains fairly unfinished.


I agree that a map is better if it illustrates clearly what it needs to. Though, I am intrigued that you find it hard to tell the difference. I am looking at the image from a distance and from close up and it is still entirely clear to me. (A note of Highlights and shadows, take for example a picture of a person's nose. The highlighted area of the nose is clearly protruding, whereas the shadows show a depression in the skin. Same basic thing exist the majority of the time where Highlights show something that is lifted and the shadows portray something that is going down or hidden.)

That said, I am looking at the area just to the left of the H of hope and there seem to be some confusion on what kind of height that southern part of the chamber is. I will look into it to making things like that a tad more clear.

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## XCali

Hi!

Today, I wanted to give the elevation a tad more clarity after thinking about the feedback. Also, I added a secret entrance leading somewhere to one of the chambers. Does this version of the bigger map more clearly define the higher areas to the low areas?



Question, the scene close to the bodies of water on the left where the colour of the rock is changing, what does it brings to mind? (Without me placing an idea in your head  :Razz:  )

### Latest WIP ###

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## Adfor

> Hi!
> 
> Today, I wanted to give the elevation a tad more clarity after thinking about the feedback. Also, I added a secret entrance leading somewhere to one of the chambers. Does this version of the bigger map more clearly define the higher areas to the low areas?
> 
> 
> 
> Question, the scene close to the bodies of water on the left where the colour of the rock is changing, what does it brings to mind? (Without me placing an idea in your head  )
> 
> ### Latest WIP ###


I suppose I've just never seen it used, myself. I'm fairly new to the wide world of cartography styles as a whole, and I have never used digital means to make a map, either. I can definitely tell now that you've said about it, and now that the colors are more starkly contrasted, I can really tell. Though the one you magnified looks more like a mound, than a pathway.

Regarding the rock, it makes me think of a pathway into further reaches of the cave, based on your shading.

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## XCali

> I suppose I've just never seen it used, myself. I'm fairly new to the wide world of cartography styles as a whole, and I have never used digital means to make a map, either. I can definitely tell now that you've said about it, and now that the colors are more starkly contrasted, I can really tell. Though the one you magnified looks more like a mound, than a pathway.
> 
> Regarding the rock, it makes me think of a pathway into further reaches of the cave, based on your shading.


Yeah, cartography styles vary sooooo much across the board.  :Smile: 

I do see what you mean, so I tried to make it more like a pathway in this one. It is hard without sacrificing the cave entrance. Let me know if you think it is better.


I was also thinking that the cave might lead to a deeper region, maybe even to the forgotten system that ends up under the College. 

Another thing, I was pondering about, I want to try and to make the left bottom exit go to a place with a frost like curse there. Do, you think it would work, or do I need to rethink that idea?

Thanks again for taking the time to drop by here.  :Smile:

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## Adfor

I enjoy hashing back and forth about dungeon building, one of my favorite topics, so it's my pleasure!

I can definitely make out a pathway a bit better now, but overall I'm still not sold on the style. I think my main issue is that there isn't a sold differentiation between solid rock and cavern, just a bold black line, but that could be my personal preferences coming into play.

Leading to a deeper section would be my natural inclination. It could be fun to have it blocked in some fashion maybe, like some form of magic barrier, maybe tie that to the frost curse cavern in some way, forcing the players to embark down that direction to proceed deeper into the complex.

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## XCali

> I enjoy hashing back and forth about dungeon building, one of my favorite topics, so it's my pleasure!
> 
> I can definitely make out a pathway a bit better now, but overall I'm still not sold on the style. I think my main issue is that there isn't a sold differentiation between solid rock and cavern, just a bold black line, but that could be my personal preferences coming into play.
> 
> Leading to a deeper section would be my natural inclination. It could be fun to have it blocked in some fashion maybe, like some form of magic barrier, maybe tie that to the frost curse cavern in some way, forcing the players to embark down that direction to proceed deeper into the complex.


I am a bit confused, what is it that you don't like about the style? Even Schley's maps often use a solid line to differentiate between floor and the rock that is around the playable areas. I would really like to hear why it doesn't work for you.

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## Adfor

Not that I don't like it, I just prefer a thicker style to separate cavern from solid stone.

This is generally my approach, just as an example of what I mean by "thicker style".

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## XCali

Hi everyone.  :Wink: 

Today, I wanted to go a bit of a different route with the rock.

### Latest WIP ###



EDIT:

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## Adfor

Solid improvement! What did you decide with the frosty room?

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## XCali

> Solid improvement! What did you decide with the frosty room?


Thanx. I am actually happy how it turned out.  :Smile: 

Hmm, still thinking about how to go about the frost area. For now I went ahead with the forgotten section under the College itself, the 3d map of the set.

### Latest WIP ###

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## jfrazierjr

I have not read every reply, just skimmed, so I apologize if I missed something. 

in one of your earlier posts, you mentioned the lower entrance is opened up and beasties are let loose.  If that's the case, from a story perspective, I would suggest two things:

1) make the entrance MUCH smaller, say around 2-4 feet wide at most( it appears around 15-20 feet wide, and spread some rubble around at the base, including a few very large boulders, possibly having a slope down away from the entrance and toward the town.   Its a bit hard to tell due to the darkness of the map overall, but you might already have the slope(it kind of appears that it might).  

2) have above said opening created by a recent earthquake or some such, creating the newly found opening.  

it's clear that the town is lower than the entrance to the cave, just not by how much.   I would also suggest making the lower cave much higher up from the top entrance and ruins to make it harder to access(such as say a cliff face south of the ruins   

Alternately, you could have any other event create/free the opening, but it should be something that recently happened within the past few days.    I know in most cases, if a new cave opened up a few hundred feet from a town, there would be something to go in there in the first few days(possibly to disappear spurning the wandering adventuring party upon the town the investigate just in the nick of time)

Is the new entrance something that's known in town as being covered over(perhaps people in the town buried it at some point in the past and forgot about WHY?) or are they completely unaware its there?

There's loads more questions, but to not just throw out loads of things, it really needs the beginnings of a hook.

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## XCali

> I have not read every reply, just skimmed, so I apologize if I missed something. 
> 
> in one of your earlier posts, you mentioned the lower entrance is opened up and beasties are let loose.  If that's the case, from a story perspective, I would suggest two things:
> 
> 1) make the entrance MUCH smaller, say around 2-4 feet wide at most( it appears around 15-20 feet wide, and spread some rubble around at the base, including a few very large boulders, possibly having a slope down away from the entrance and toward the town.   Its a bit hard to tell due to the darkness of the map overall, but you might already have the slope(it kind of appears that it might).  
> 
> 2) have above said opening created by a recent earthquake or some such, creating the newly found opening.  
> 
> it's clear that the town is lower than the entrance to the cave, just not by how much.   I would also suggest making the lower cave much higher up from the top entrance and ruins to make it harder to access(such as say a cliff face south of the ruins   
> ...


Hey! Thanks for the feedback. I have thinking about it and will considering adding several things to start moving things forward.

I will say, I think in my mind there was a small cave there but a wall collapsed inward and opened up this entire network. Secondly, I made a cliff to restrict access somewhat to the cave. I did think about you mentioning the map being dark and realised it was a bit too dark and made it a bit lighter.

I will chip at the story when I get the time, for I now I am pondering if I should add more objects to the cave system. Any ideas for that? Or should I just leave it as is and let other DMs/GMs populate the map as they wish?

### Latest WIP ###

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## XCali

Hi  :Wink: 

I started to break up the map into 28(I think) regions for DMs or GMs to build the adventure over time. Is this something you guys want in a map pack?

For example,
Maps in the *map pack* so far:
the Main overview Town and Cave network map grid + without grid
The College and Town map
Then 28 separate map depiction smaller areas _like_
  
And then the map under the College
plus its smaller areas as well

Then as a plus there will be some lore around the college, the anxious teacher that disappeared and the cave wall breaking open revealing the large cave network.
+Several location specific short adventure hooks to kick things off.
(I can also create a night version of some of the maps?)
--
--
I want to know if a map pack like this is intriguing or not?  :Smile:  I would reeeeeeally appreciate some feedback on the idea.

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## Adfor

Personally I wouldn't think so. Since you're already including a full map of the cave complex, I would think it rather silly to make extra work for yourself.

If you're looking for hooks, I would just include alphabetical/numerical indicators of things that may be of interest to the PC's, that could provide a hook. Say for instance the little skull, make a reason for it being displayed. Maybe it's an animal that isn't native to the land, and is known to be the exotic pet of the anxious teacher that disappeared, leading the party to believe him to have been in the cave recently.

Little snippets like that can convey a lot into the story with little effort on the GM's part.

Hope that helps, I was sort-of unclear as to what you meant by "map pack".

Cheers!

IR

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## XCali

> Personally I wouldn't think so. Since you're already including a full map of the cave complex, I would think it rather silly to make extra work for yourself.
> 
> If you're looking for hooks, I would just include alphabetical/numerical indicators of things that may be of interest to the PC's, that could provide a hook. Say for instance the little skull, make a reason for it being displayed. Maybe it's an animal that isn't native to the land, and is known to be the exotic pet of the anxious teacher that disappeared, leading the party to believe him to have been in the cave recently.
> 
> Little snippets like that can convey a lot into the story with little effort on the GM's part.
> 
> Hope that helps, I was sort-of unclear as to what you meant by "map pack".
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


Ah, thanks.

I will make available a dungeon master version of the map with numbers or labels and tie that in with the adventure hooks I write for this.  :Smile: 

I would say, if it wasn't for DM's using a TV for showing their encounter maps, then I would probably agree in some way. But, showing the entire map to players right of the bat is quite non-intuitive. VTT's are better in that sense since they have a "Fog of War" tool to hide the map from player and only show the part visible to the actual characters. 
Then as a side, it can be used as dungeon/cave tiles for a different adventure without being bogged down by having to use the entire map.  :Smile:  Hope that clarifies my thinking progress in making this set.

Also, you mentioned being uncertain about what I meant about a map pack. On stores like DMsguild and DrivethruRPG, you find map packs, which is basically a collection of maps made available as one set.

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## Adfor

Ahhh ok I see what you mean now. I'm so used to fabricating my own maps for my campaign and using a Chessex sheet that I forgot about the not showing the entire map part haha.

I suppose in that light a map pack wouldn't be a bad idea, may have to try something like that myself eventually, thanks for the idea!

Otherwise I think this is progressing very nicely, keep it up!

IR

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## XCali

> Ahhh ok I see what you mean now. I'm so used to fabricating my own maps for my campaign and using a Chessex sheet that I forgot about the not showing the entire map part haha.
> 
> I suppose in that light a map pack wouldn't be a bad idea, may have to try something like that myself eventually, thanks for the idea!
> 
> Otherwise I think this is progressing very nicely, keep it up!
> 
> IR


 :Very Happy:  Thanks. 

Yeah, I was going for something that gives some manoeuvrability to DMs.  :Smile:

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## XCali

Okay, here is the first part of a story that will accompany the map pack. I would really like to hear what you think about what it gets right and what it might need. Super thanks in advance.

### Latest WIP ###
A story from College of Stormheart

Giant doors, with a flowing pattern of owls over its face, swung open with a groan. The halls were lit by those odd flames I was always so transfixed with as a kid, I still don’t understand what they are besides a spectacular way to light a room. Ah, it has been some time since I last set foot in this place. Taking in a deep breath brings back so many memories. Growing up in the town and only dreaming in following in my mother’s footsteps was such a big part of my childhoid. But alas, with her being the Grand master of the College always made that probability highly unlikely. Still, I remained focus on becoming a part of the place’s household names. 
Now, to get to it; my footfalls weren’t as soft on the ornate stone floors. Moving silently in this hall would be a more difficult feet than what I used to. 
“Ah, good day sir... sir! How can I be of assistance?” 
The voice startled me from my thoughts and I turned in its direction, to be met by a man in grey robes behind a counter. I smiled and approached him.
“Hello, I was looking for my m... um Grand Master Avanlia.”
The robed man frowned for a moment before he said,
“I am sorry, the Grand Master is a busy woman. Especially in these last few weeks.” 
The frustration bubbled up in me, but I didn’t just want to drop that I was her son. No, I wanted to work myself up without that label. This choice was just too important. 
“Ah, forgive me. Just send her word that Gareth would like to speak to her.”
“I will be sure to do so.” The man answered respectfully. “Is there anything else I can help you with?”
It couldn’t be helped that I needed to wait a small while.
“Ah, yes, it has been a long while since I have been here. I am hoping to start training here. I might need some information.”
“Is that right? Then is there any desire to join the Blades, or a wish for something more in the line of the arcane? There is a field of training for quite a number if different adventurer types in the halls of Stormheart.”
A smile crept up my face. Just a mention of me wanting to join had the man behaving differently. But, it’s still good to hear that the College was catering to several different paths.
“I will see. For now I wish to head to the Blades Academy, are they still on the South East wing?”
The man nodded and said,
“Indeed it is. You can head there to spar if you wish. But, I have to insist that you know that if you wish to join any of the Paths, that the College makes available, there is a set of trials for each to enter into the ranks. This is not a school for the uninitiated, it is for those who wish to discover a Path more deeply.”
I nodded, completely aware of the fact. It might seem daunting to someone not committed to their field of training, but for me it just excited me. I loved a challenge.
With that, I left down the long hallway with many rooms going by on my sides. Quite a few was full of younger students preparing for the day that they would choose a Path to train in at the College. I smiled, I once sat in one of those rooms many years ago, eager to persevere so I can also choose my own Path at the College. A lot have happened in the years since, but I still wish to choose a Path, but it carries far greater meaning this time around. My hand curled up to embrace the amulet around my neck. A wild symphony of emotions swirled around in me. I will find a way to free my friend from that icy prison no matter how long it takes.
A sigh escaped me as I realised I had brooded all the way to the door of the Blades Academy. For now, I wanted to test my skills with the blade with one of the trainees, that at least is encouraged even before one chose your Path at the College.
I flipped open my cloak and gripped the owl pommel of my sword and opened the door. The clash of steel echoed loud in the air. A very familiar sound indeed. This would take my mind of my troubles.
***
My lungs were burning as sweat ran down my forehead. The sword was heavy in my hands, but a broad grin adorned my face, I revelled in the fight. I swept my sword up ready for another flurry of blows. I had beaten several of the year one Blades Path initiates, but I still felt I need more.
“Excuse me, sir. Ah, Gareth. I need to speak with you.” A call came from behind. 
I just ignored it. I needed to better my swordsmanship. There was so much to learn.
“Ah, sir! I must protest. It is an urgent matter, the Grand Master will see you.”
I stopped mid swing down on the panicking initiate’s armoured shoulder. I grunted at him,
“Good fight. But, I need to go.”
As if he was holding his breath in for a long time, the Blades Path initiate nodded and started panting out of breath.
With it, I turned towards the man calling out to me. I looked at the other initiates and pointed my sword at them, eliciting several worried looks from them. 
I turned my head to the man in the grey robe.
“Take me to her.”
“Follow me.” He said hastily, with quite a bit of uncertainty in his features. He was probably wondering why on earth the Grand Master would see me so quickly.
It took a while to move through the massive College, but upon reaching the Northern most wing of the College, the man stopped and ushered me into the small hallway that led to my mother’s study.
Small lights danced across the wall, it was pretty, could even be described as mesmerizing. But, I wanted to talk to her about what happened to my friend. Her plight was my mission and I would ask my mother’s help in finding a way to free her.
I approached the couch closer to the door and sat, but quickly shouts from inside the room caught my intension. Even the door did little to muffle the words.
“I can’t tell you what I found, I have to show you......I can’t. I have been trying to tell you. If the wrong person overheard... It is too dangerous!... Why won’t you listen to me...” 
The door swung open and a man I knew well from my years of studying, Tarkin Ryhom. His characteristic pointy beard was still a full flung feature on his angular face. The pure anxiousness all over his features however, was not. He looked like he saw a terrifying thing and nobody believed him. 
He walked past me with hardly even a nod while muttering,
“They need to believe me. I have to...”
“Tarkin! Don’t go, why can’t you just tell me what you saw?” A woman with great poise called out after the man. Her flowing robes were glorious, it shimmered in the light sparkling across the midnight blue material like stars. My mother, the Grand Master.
“For the last time, I can’t, it is too dangerous. I have to show you.”
With that, he left the hall, passing by a group of adventurers walking by.
The Grand Master sighed deeply before straightening her posture. Clearly she realised there was someone else there. She turned to me and her features softened quite considerably. 
“I am sorry you had to see that.” She moved gracefully forward and swept me up in a hug. “I missed you.”
“Um, you are squeezing too tight. Ugh. I missed you too mom, dad says hi.”
She let me go and smiled broadly.
“Good, now come in.” She said as she walked back into her study, “We have lots to talk about. Tell me what you have been up to the last few years. I want to know everything.”
 When I did not follow, she stopped and worry filled her eyes.
“What is wrong, Gareth? You look pale.”
I took a shuddering breath.
“Mom, something terrible has happened. Lezaria is in great trouble. I need your help.”






Edit: I just went over it once to remove the most obvious mistakes.  :Smile:

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## Adfor

Very intriguing! I definitely enjoyed reading that little short story, it's a very well written narrative.  There are typos throughout though, and some context issues in some of the paragraphs, but overall very minor things.

You did a wonderful job describing the college, I got a mysterious feel, as should be in the realm of learning. I also like how you rolled out the main characters, and Tarkin Ryhom seems to provide a wonderful hook that is easily identified by players.

No qualms here, fantastic work!

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## XCali

> Very intriguing! I definitely enjoyed reading that little short story, it's a very well written narrative.  There are typos throughout though, and some context issues in some of the paragraphs, but overall very minor things.
> 
> You did a wonderful job describing the college, I got a mysterious feel, as should be in the realm of learning. I also like how you rolled out the main characters, and Tarkin Ryhom seems to provide a wonderful hook that is easily identified by players.
> 
> No qualms here, fantastic work!


Ah thank you! I'm really glad you enjoyed it. Sorry about the typos, what often happens when I write a story is I'm more focused on the roll of the story and sometimes miss the mistakes. I did quickly make an editing run of it just now.  :Smile:  Hopefully it reads a bit better. 

I am also you liked how I set up the College so far and the characters, I was trying to be specific without convoluting things too much. Like for example that the College is for many different types of adventurers who wishes to hone their art instead of just the arcane ones. 

I am a bit uncertain what you meant with context issues. My best guess is the layout of the College? Or what are you revering to?  :Smile: 

Thanks again.

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## Adfor

I think I was referring to a couple of instances where things were described in past tense, where it should have been present tense, at least I believe so, I'm at work so I don't have time right at the moment to re-read it.  :Wink:

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## XCali

I wanted to add a little extra to the map pack with regarding to selling the main Adventure hook.

The writing can and probably will be changed, and can be left out completely as well for DMs to write their own warning letter on it.
Let me know what you think.  :Smile:

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## Adfor

Good flavor! That would look really good printed out on some 'ol fashion coffee stained and crinkled paper.  Looks like you're adding multiple layers to your hook, that is always good, because eventually the players are going to have to peel those layers back to get to the core, which is a lot of fun!

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## XCali

Ah, thanks. I was hoping something like this would be nice to add to the map pack.  :Smile: 

What I am struggling with now, is how much of the maps I need to populate with stuff, or do I just keep the chambers empty and up to DMs to populate. (I will have a version with numbers or labels for each area, so my question more in line with items, rubble or whatever throughout the chambers/caverns.)

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## Adfor

I mean, most caverns don't have much in the ways of features outside of normal cave stuff, unless something resides there. The issue here is that this cave *just* opened up, so it'd be very difficult to justify something living there that needs access to the outside world to prosper. Now if the creature is something that doesn't need sustenance, say an incorporeal creature, such as a shadow or ghost, it makes a lot more sense that it could just *be* there.  This is even more true if there is only one way in, one way out, but if there is access to a network of tunnels, you could justify something that has a natural habitat of subterranean, too.

Another question, I saw you post a small map for the frozen area that looked like some form of sentient construction, what was that built for? What was its purpose when it was originally built? This may help to flesh out the dungeon a bit further, or at least give you an idea of what could possibly be within, item wise I mean, because people don't go into a construction project with no purpose behind it, that's for sure. 

Like I mentioned before, pick your monsters first, even if it's just room by room, and often times what items that reside there come along with them. Being a cave, if you leave a lot of chambers empty, that is perfectly alright, most of the time they would be mostly empty anyways. I will often times throw little hidden treasures and quirky features into those rooms, just so that they aren't completely empty, and in turn, boring. Doing this will allow a lot of room for DM tweeking, while still doing a bit of room population yourself.

Hope this helps, cheers!

IR

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## XCali

> I mean, most caverns don't have much in the ways of features outside of normal cave stuff, unless something resides there. The issue here is that this cave *just* opened up, so it'd be very difficult to justify something living there that needs access to the outside world to prosper. Now if the creature is something that doesn't need sustenance, say an incorporeal creature, such as a shadow or ghost, it makes a lot more sense that it could just *be* there.  This is even more true if there is only one way in, one way out, but if there is access to a network of tunnels, you could justify something that has a natural habitat of subterranean, too.
> 
> Another question, I saw you post a small map for the frozen area that looked like some form of sentient construction, what was that built for? What was its purpose when it was originally built? This may help to flesh out the dungeon a bit further, or at least give you an idea of what could possibly be within, item wise I mean, because people don't go into a construction project with no purpose behind it, that's for sure. 
> 
> Like I mentioned before, pick your monsters first, even if it's just room by room, and often times what items that reside there come along with them. Being a cave, if you leave a lot of chambers empty, that is perfectly alright, most of the time they would be mostly empty anyways. I will often times throw little hidden treasures and quirky features into those rooms, just so that they aren't completely empty, and in turn, boring. Doing this will allow a lot of room for DM tweeking, while still doing a bit of room population yourself.
> 
> Hope this helps, cheers!
> 
> IR


Thanks.  :Very Happy:  It really does help. 

I think my biggest reluctance to choosing monsters would be that I have DMing experience. I was just a player for a short while and the world was not leveled to us. We could find the worst kind of beasties in the underground or rather tame. So, even that experience does not help me one bit in thinking about this map set.

So, that probably leaves me in the position of writing what I can about the region and making this mostly empty canvas as interesting as possible, and then leaving the actual creature populating to people that know how faaaaaaaar better than I do. I hope that makes sense.  :Smile:

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## Adfor

It makes total sense, and it's understandable to be reluctant in this situation. You can always set a certain level range, and work off of that. Thomden did some wonderful bookmarks that operate in this way, seen here. Those bookmarks are excellent because they show how you can keep it short and sweet, but still convey the overall idea that you're trying to get across.

You can also throw level-based out the window and work purely off roleplaying. Like they say, there are many different kinds of monsters in the world, and a lot of them are not your level.  :Wink:  "We have to fight until the end, until we're all dead if that's what it takes!" said no player ever, if the chance of running away is readily feasible. Maybe there is a baddy way beyond the level of the PC's in this dungeon, and is that unreasonable? Not at all, it will give the players something to work towards if anything else, and there is no harm or foul from the PCs waiting until they're a higher level and better equipped to handle something of that challenge rating.

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## XCali

> It makes total sense, and it's understandable to be reluctant in this situation. You can always set a certain level range, and work off of that. Thomden did some wonderful bookmarks that operate in this way, seen here. Those bookmarks are excellent because they show how you can keep it short and sweet, but still convey the overall idea that you're trying to get across.
> 
> You can also throw level-based out the window and work purely off roleplaying. Like they say, there are many different kinds of monsters in the world, and a lot of them are not your level.  "We have to fight until the end, until we're all dead if that's what it takes!" said no player ever, if the chance of running away is readily feasible. Maybe there is a baddy way beyond the level of the PC's in this dungeon, and is that unreasonable? Not at all, it will give the players something to work towards if anything else, and there is no harm or foul from the PCs waiting until they're a higher level and better equipped to handle something of that challenge rating.


Definitely food for thought. Thank you.

I think that second point you made is more attractive. The levels and monster difficulty is not something I can yet lean on to use on my maps. So, story is going to be the back for the time being.  :Smile: 

That said, I started a map today for more that one reason, but now it has got me thinking of what is on the other side of this mountain with the cave. Maybe a hidden stronghold was in the mountains forgotten with time. What happened to it that it went silent in the first place. Is it whatever is causing the frost to take over the caves? The party will have to find out. Though, they might trigger an ancient beacon that sets in motion an army to to stir in the west destroying everything on its way to the stronghold, having them have to defend the peace of their town by taking a stand in the old ruins in the mountains.

### Latest WIP ###


(Hehe, the map pack is expanding.  :Very Happy: )

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## Adfor

> Definitely food for thought. Thank you.
> 
> I think that second point you made is more attractive. The levels and monster difficulty is not something I can yet lean on to use on my maps. So, story is going to be the back for the time being. 
> 
> That said, I started a map today for more that one reason, but now it has got me thinking of what is on the other side of this mountain with the cave. Maybe a hidden stronghold was in the mountains forgotten with time. What happened to it that it went silent in the first place. Is it whatever is causing the frost to take over the caves? The party will have to find out. Though, they might trigger an ancient beacon that sets in motion an army to to stir in the west destroying everything on its way to the stronghold, having them have to defend the peace of their town by taking a stand in the old ruins in the mountains.
> 
> ### Latest WIP ###
> 
> 
> (Hehe, the map pack is expanding. )


That sounds fun! Nothing like a mindless army marching towards a goal unwaveringly, just be careful with that type of power, players don't start facing troop-based mobs until higher levels, usually 8-10+.

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## damonjynx

Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread. This is looking good Xcali. Re power levels of creatures and such, don't worry about it, let the GM's who run the adventure sort that out. I would just provide descriptions and a difficulty grade, like easy, moderate, hard or very hard. Whilst games like D&D and its derivatives are very popular there are other systems that have strong followings that don't use levels, particularly D100 games like Runequest and it's many flavours for example. If your intent is to aim the map pack specifically at the D&D market, i.e. sell it on the DM's Guild rather then the generic Drivethru RPG site, then I would strongly suggest you do some homework and properly write up the monsters. This will entail making sections of your dungeon 'level' specific. If the PC's wander into an area to high above their current level as Adfor says, they can runaway and come back when they're ready or they can stay, fight and most likely die a horribly painful death :Smile:

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## XCali

> Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread. This is looking good Xcali. Re power levels of creatures and such, don't worry about it, let the GM's who run the adventure sort that out. I would just provide descriptions and a difficulty grade, like easy, moderate, hard or very hard. Whilst games like D&D and its derivatives are very popular there are other systems that have strong followings that don't use levels, particularly D100 games like Runequest and it's many flavours for example. If your intent is to aim the map pack specifically at the D&D market, i.e. sell it on the DM's Guild rather then the generic Drivethru RPG site, then I would strongly suggest you do some homework and properly write up the monsters. This will entail making sections of your dungeon 'level' specific. If the PC's wander into an area to high above their current level as Adfor says, they can runaway and come back when they're ready or they can stay, fight and most likely die a horribly painful death


Thank you for this, really.  :Smile: 

It further specified something I was intending from the start. To make this pack more Rule neutral, something an adventure could be had at. So, DrivethruRPG is better for that, I take. 

Now, I am going for that, so you suggest I add a supplement to the pack that would explain the Difficulty grade rather than level, which is a good idea. Still, I don't exactly know what do I need to make sure in this compilation of maps to cover all bases for an extended adventure. 
From my, albeit brief, experience in actually playing a TTRPG, I did realise there need to be spaced out zones that the party could take a breather, do you agree with this? If so, then should I add that to the difficulty grade supplement, labelling certain areas as safe and others then with the difficulty curve?

This is a completely side note, but I do wish to hear some feedback on it.
I REALLY wish to add trees that glow under starlight into some of these maps, and I'm busy figuring out how to do it exactly. Is it something you would wish to see? And that said, would you think adding night versions of my maps be useful to DMs/GMs running their games? (Super thank you in advance. P.S. Anyone can give advice on this.)

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## damonjynx

Ok. This gets more complex by the post. It depends on what you're actually releasing. If it's just a map pack with some flavour text and scenario idea's, i.e. you're not describing each room in detail, none of that is really necessary, but if you intend on releasing it as a proper system neutral adventure (something there should be more of in my opinion) so anyone can run it using any rules system; i.e. D&D (pick a flavour), Pathfinder, OSR games, Savage Worlds, FATE, BRP/Runequest (once again pick a flavour) or whatever, what I meant above was when describing a room and the monster(s) in it you should say; "The <insert monster(s) name> in this room are half starved and weak, this should be an easy encounter for your adventurers." or something appropriate like that.

Check out the one-page dungeon compilations from Drivethru RPG, each entry is meant to be system neutral so you can get a bit of an idea of what I actually mean, you can also check out my entry Crypt of the Witch King in the finished maps section here. Another handy reference is Goodman Games, How To Write Adventure Modules That Don't Suck which I belive is available on Drivethru as well.

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## XCali

> Ok. This gets more complex by the post. It depends on what you're actually releasing. If it's just a map pack with some flavour text and scenario idea's, i.e. you're not describing each room in detail, none of that is really necessary, but if you intend on releasing it as a proper system neutral adventure (something there should be more of in my opinion) so anyone can run it using any rules system; i.e. D&D (pick a flavour), Pathfinder, OSR games, Savage Worlds, FATE, BRP/Runequest (once again pick a flavour) or whatever, what I meant above was when describing a room and the monster(s) in it you should say; "The <insert monster(s) name> in this room are half starved and weak, this should be an easy encounter for your adventurers." or something appropriate like that.
> 
> Check out the one-page dungeon compilations from Drivethru RPG, each entry is meant to be system neutral so you can get a bit of an idea of what I actually mean, you can also check out my entry Crypt of the Witch King in the finished maps section here. Another handy reference is Goodman Games, How To Write Adventure Modules That Don't Suck which I belive is available on Drivethru as well.


Definitely food for thought. Really.    (EDIT: Btw, the link you provided is not working, maybe check it out?)

As it is now, the map pack has three Overview maps. I will probably include each chamber as its own small map to make it easier on DMs to not give away what lies ahead. 
Now, I can and probably will add night versions of the overview maps. With this I feel like adding stuff like certain trees that glow at night and fires here and there.
Aside from that all, I have already started writing short stories for this area. It can be used for lore ideas going in. I will also write several Mini Adventure hooks. I did something similar for my Thunder Rock city map on DMsguild.

What I can also do, if this is something that would really be appreciated by DMs/GMs, is start writing character view descriptions of the main areas on the overview maps. This is not too troublesome, I enjoy writing. *Question is, is this what you mentioned as part as what you said, "(something there should be more of in my opinion)"?* 
I would like to hear what you think there should be more of, because quite frankly, if I know what people want, I can start putting together something towards that goal.  :Smile:    (I am not yet versed in the more technical stuff, like levels, monsters and their levels, items, BUT I can do maps, I can write lore to set the stage and I can describe what characters would see, I can write adventure hooks, stuff like that.)

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## damonjynx

Exactly that Xcali. Write the history, describe the scene, let GM's work out the stats for the creatures and so on if you're not doing it as a stand alone adventure. I'm not 100% sure how DM's Guild works but if you're not releasing something specifically D&D related, would you not be better off releasing it on the general DTRPG site? Or are your sales better on DM's Guild?

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## XCali

> Exactly that Xcali. Write the history, describe the scene, let GM's work out the stats for the creatures and so on if you're not doing it as a stand alone adventure. I'm not 100% sure how DM's Guild works but if you're not releasing something specifically D&D related, would you not be better off releasing it on the general DTRPG site? Or are your sales better on DM's Guild?


That is great then,  :Very Happy:  It is what I am aiming for.

Yeah, I realized DMs Guild is far more for actual DnD stuff, so I have been busy setting up my publishers account on DriveThruRPG. Just waiting to get the thumbs up for my City map product and then I'll continue building this Map pack for it.  :Smile: 

Anything else you would want to see included?  :Smile: 
(Btw, thank you so much for the feedback.)

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## XCali

Hi!

Today, I added three pits with one that leads to a deeper cave system and the others not so nice.


And then I thought it might be a good idea to try and map the three chutes, to add it to the map pack.  :Smile:  Is this something that is useful for a DM/GM? If so, is there something still necessary to it?
(I know I'll probably have to add more visual cues to make sure this is seen as a cut out side view.)

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## XCali

Hiya! 

Today, I started with the area that would signify the boss area or at least one of the boss areas for this adventure. The frozen caverns. 
I wanted to give the affect that there are areas where the ice is thinner than others.

I'm a bit uncertain to the Number of Grid blocks I should go for with this map, feedback would be welcome.




A small excerpt from one of the lore pieces I am writing for this map pack.  :Smile: 

*The mysteries of the east*

Sounds of thunder and explosions filled the air. There was no more time…
One of the ancient threats to the world stirred in its slumber.
Sweat dripped from the Arch Mage’s brow. Her entire present circle of mage knights had been obliterated. The immense pain of losing her brothers and sisters in arms was still fresh open wounds. Her hand quivered as it clutched at her chest. A decade of preparation to face an enemy had been undone in days. Overconfidence had been their greatest weakness in face of what woke up. 
There were nine, not one leading the search for the artifacts, ones which could unite the armies of darkness. And because of her failed insight, she had lost everything…

Her crying heart wailed in grief, but no sound came as the tears silently rolled down her cheeks. Even then, her other hand stayed steady as she wrote the last of the letter with determination. It was their only hope… An entire continent’s only hope.
That light may come to a world that does not know of the dark things that stirred in the deep parts of the world.
The thing that bite deeply was that the continent was oblivious to what she and her mage knights had come to face. That which they failed to protect against. 

In their hubris they had chosen to not reveal this particular great threat to the world, and so doing thought they could face it without bringing fear to the lands above. But now… none remain that could rightly rally the forces against the coming dark blight.
Another explosion ripped through the stone work as the crack of wood splintering sounded, caused her lithe form to recoil in surprise.

Tears and sweat dripped onto her hand as her last resolute resolve held her hand as steady as possible. She gripped the quill with force, her knuckles white from the effort.

She had exhausted all her spells apart from three. One for sending the scroll and two defend that moment with everything.
Her breath eased as she held it. She was going to see this through, no matter what.
Briefly her thoughts settled on the College of Stormheart, the only place she could send the scroll without it somehow landing in the wrong hands. It was the only thing she could think of. All she hoped for was, whoever found the scroll would understand the dire threat that this posed.

~To be Continued~

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## damonjynx

Looking good Xcali. Re number of squares; do you have an idea of the 'actual' size of the area, i.e. is 100 feet x 50 feet, 200 x 100 and so on. Is the 'boss' a large creature or more or less human-sized? If the map segment is intended to be used for an encounter generally you would use 1 sq per 5 feet but it depends...if the area is very large it may be better to have 1 sq per 10 feet.

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## XCali

Okay, so for these, the Original image is 4900px X 3500px. So, the one I placed a grid on that is 70px X 70px in size, which adds to 70 by 50 Square grid.
The second one, I placed a grid of 140px X 140px in size, which adds to 35 by 25 Square grid.





What would be better in your opinion? (I really do not know what kind of monsters to add to the maps, yet. I will have to have a better understanding on how to DM if I would do that. So, for now it is maps, lore and maybe objects that I will add to them.)

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## damonjynx

I would go with the second one, if each square  = 5ft then thats 175ft x 125ft which is plenty.

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## XCali

> I would go with the second one, if each square  = 5ft then thats 175ft x 125ft which is plenty.


Right. Cool beans. Thank you for taking the time.  :Smile:

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## Adfor

Just wanted to drop by since I haven't mentioned anything on this for awhile. Looking great, I love the pits you made, and the frozen section looks awfully chilly.  :Wink:  That lore piece you did is exactly the hook you needed to get the ball rolling. Can't wait to see it finished!

Cheers!

IR

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## XCali

> Just wanted to drop by since I haven't mentioned anything on this for awhile. Looking great, I love the pits you made, and the frozen section looks awfully chilly.  That lore piece you did is exactly the hook you needed to get the ball rolling. Can't wait to see it finished!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> IR


Thank you.   :Wink:  The second lore piece I posted has a whole extra section already written. It does help to know it is good hook to get a story going.  :Smile: 

I am busy with two more parts to the whole map pack, one is an 'Abandoned Floating Caravan' map, one that can be found by the players in the hidden mountain fortress. It is for players if they want to travel in something more unique. 
The second is the fortress itself. 

So, this map pack is going to be packed! I might even have to break it up into three parts and have one that has all three parts. I will see if I can write even more lore for it and maybe descriptions for several areas.

I hope this project will be something RPG people would be interested in.  :Smile:

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