# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Software Discussion >  Dundjinni replacement?

## ROB_IN_MN

Hi,

I'm new to this whole creating your own maps thing. I just started doing some virtual table top dnd and would like to be able to create my own little battle maps. I downloaded the trial verion of Dundjinni and played with it for a while and thought it was very cool.

So, I thought I'd buy it. not so much.

Is there another program that's as easy to use (I'm not CAD expert) where I can just draw some grass, draw some roads and add a few icons that look like trees? I'm looking for the realistic maps such as what this guy was working in:
http://www.dundjinni.com/forums/foru...TID=13156&PN=1

does Campaign Cartographer do that sort of stuff? 

On a related note, if someone would be willing to sell me their copy (or just their registration key) for Dundjinni, I'd gladly pay via paypal or whatever.

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## Redrobes

Have a play with DungeonForge and see if that suits you. Its free I think and has splatting, textures and so on. I think it has layers like DJ as well. If your looking to do textured fills like the lake then I would consider trying Gimp as even tho its a raster paint package you can do those sorts of things with it. You will need some textures to help out but theres loads of free texture sites out there too.

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## Mark Oliva

> I'm new to this whole creating your own maps thing. I just started doing some virtual table top dnd and would like to be able to create my own little battle maps. I downloaded the trial verion of Dundjinni and played with it for a while and thought it was very cool.  Does Campaign Cartographer do that sort of stuff?


Yes, it does, but it's a *much* more complicated program than Dundjinni (TM) and much harder to learn.

If Dundjinni does what you want, I'd strongly suggest that you take a look at Dungeon Demon (TM) from Rusty Axe Games (TM):

http://www.rustyaxe.com/apps/dd/index.php

It's doubtful that Dundjinni will rise from the ashes again.  Dungeon Demon is something of a Dundjinni twin done to some extent with input and art from many of the Dundjinni forums' key contributors, people like Super Captain of Nine Gods fame, Bogie, Cisticola, Bludragon, Irondwarf, Kepli, aegean, Totte, Greytale, Erzyl and Dragonwolf!  If you've spent any time on the Dundjinni forums, you know who they are.

A free trial version is available.  I tried it out and was impressed with it as a Dundjinni substitute.  However (like Dundjinni) it's too simple and limited to fulfill the needs of our project group.  Fractal Mapper 8 remains our mapping tool.  If Dungeon Demon looks too simple to you, check out FM8 too:

http://www.nbos.com/

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## ROB_IN_MN

thank you for the suggestions, everyone.

As cool as all these big maps the folks here are making, right now I'm just trying to make some visually interesting battle maps for virtual table top dnd. Right now, I've been making them in Dundjinni's trial version, zooming way in and screenshotting and stitching them together in paint! 

I downloaded Fractal Mapper's demo and was all confuzzled, so I think something simple, at least for now, is the way to go for me!

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## jfrazierjr

Ummm why not just do all this in the VTT?  Of course, I don't know most VTT's but many allow dropping objects(trees, rocks, tables,etc) that are already created as png files directly onto the map and move/size as needed.

One note though..if you are using a VTT for internet play, I would highly suggest down sizing the images OUTSIDE the VTT since most Dundjinni images are are very large(200 pixels per inch) and you want to try to make images a bit smaller(100 or 50 pixels per inch) in an outside program.... first.

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## dormouse

Dungeonforge can do everything that is in the Dundjinni map except the bit that require direct drawing - but it is easy to do those on a transparent background in paint.net and add that as a background, tile or object in Dungeonforge.

I use VTTs pretty much all the time and wouldn't dream of using them for my basic map design. Not as fast, easy or flexible and not necessarily so easy to switch to another VTT. However, I do add all the moveables in the VTT.

I've never been a Dundjinni user, so I'm not sure about the current position about Java, but I am aware that it has at times only worked on certain (older) versions of Java. I would personally regard it as a security vulnerability if it did not work on the latest most secure version.

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## jaerdaph

> does Campaign Cartographer do that sort of stuff?


You can definitely do that with CC3. And they've made the program a lot easier to use than it was years ago with pre-defined drawing tools and styles, short instructional YouTube videos and the Annuals. So don't worry about it being too hard to learn even if you aren't a CAD person, because they hide most of that now. 

The big question with CC3 today is, how much are you willing to spend? With CC3 and the Dungeon Designer 3 add-on, you'll be able to do some nice battlemaps to import into a VTT. If you pick up the Cartographer's Annual 2008, it has even more new tools for doing battlemaps. 

Joe Sweeney's video tutorials at YouTube are a great resource for learning to get the most out of CC3 and the add-ons. I recommend checking some of them out *before* you buy to see the product in use for creating a map step-by-step to gauge if this is a way of working that you would be comfortable with. 

And feel free to stop by the Profantasy CC3 forum to ask questions about the software and see some of the really impressive maps people are making their first time out with the program: http://forum.profantasy.com You'll have access to the CC3 developers at Profantasy as well as many longtime and newer users. It's a great resource!

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## ROB_IN_MN

I found myself a copy of Dundjinni on e-bay!  And I've been messing around with Gimp a lot. I'm having lots of fun :Smile:  Imagine how much fun I'll have when I know what I'm doing!

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## tgrt

I was a little reluctant about CC3 at first.  However, I bit the bullet and got started.  It takes a little while to get used to the CAD user experience (or lack thereof).  I'd say I've mastered about 50% of it; however, it doesn't take long before you start turning out quality maps.

I just finished my first adventure and I have encounters ranging from a stuck barge, outdoors ambush, ankheg tunnels, to indoors maps for the keep (including a web-filled corridor where I also used Photoshop).  Printing and cutting is kind of a pain, but the pop it gives the adventure was worth the work.

I originally bought CC3 with the castles add-on and shortly after decided I needed the dungeon add-on.  I'm going to get the city add-on soon.  I wouldn't buy the castles add-on if I could go back.  The bugs can be annoying, but all-in-all it beats the alternatives.

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## jaerdaph

> I found myself a copy of Dundjinni on e-bay!  And I've been messing around with Gimp a lot. I'm having lots of fun Imagine how much fun I'll have when I know what I'm doing!


Glad to hear you found something that fits your needs!  :Smile:

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