# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Regional/World Mapping >  Atlas Elyden

## vorropohaiah

EDIT: the modern iteration of the atlas maps start on page 6, with post #110. All other maps before that were still 'prototypes' as I was searching for a style. 

* * *

Hi all! One of the reasons I haven't been so active on the forum is my worldbuilding, part of which is the so-called 'Encyclopedia Elyden' which I tend to bring up in all of my threads! It exists in 2 worlds - 

1) the real version that exists in my computer started out as nothing more than notes to help me in my own writing and world building, to help me locate places, items and other things I'd otherwise forget, though as my worldbuilding increased in scope it grew steadily larger, changing from simple bullet points to a target and something to aim for in its own right. Almost 10-years down the line I have over 600,000 words of text in the thing (over half of which are in the itemised encyclopedia entries - think an early edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica)

2) it exists as an in-world book that summarises the worldly knowledge of a particular nation and one thing I'm aiming for in my version is to one day create a hand-made version of this book for myself, though I don't see that happening until many many years down the line, if at all, as I'm constantly adding to it.

The in-world book is divided into 3 volumes: the encyclopedia, the world histories and mytholgies and religions, and the atlas.

We're mostly concerned with the third volume here. After much fretting about I've finally started work on this. After my uncompleted political map of Korachan I've settled on a style I'm happy with and will now set about mapping every known nation, realm and major land formation in the world. A monumental task, that, if completed, will leave me with a many-hundred-page-long document.

Each page is A3 in size and will incorporate a map on one side and various geographical, political, religious, etc information pertaining to the region on the reverse. The images are, so far, being created as individual pieces, though can easily be bound together if the thing ever gets done. 

This is my work so far - mostly foundations for more detailed stuff to come later on. I've largely busied myself making a template I can quickly adapt for new maps, though sadly the creation of the neatlines and graticules are beyond my ability to automate and really take a lot of time to get done, even after running my equirectangluar world map through G. Projector. Hopefully this is the start of something far larger that won't peter out after a few months  :Smile: 

Also, anyone familiar with my Holy Empire of Korachan map might be able to place these maps within that one. Keep in mind that these were made with far more precision than the older map and take precedence in the event of any changes

C&C welcome! 

note: some of the titlebars and cartouches are still temporary, leftovers from the base template and some text does not yet make sense. also, the grid along the neatline on the Shibboleth map should be changed - from 2 to 5. per graticule grid

* more maps on post #14, #24, #29, #61, #67 and #70

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## - Max -

Looks nice  :Smile:  The rivers on Shibboleth map looks a bit off though (pixelated).

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## vorropohaiah

oh they're fine at normal resolution - it's just because we're so zoomed in that they appear that way ( i hope!)

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## - Max -

Yep that makes sense, should be ok at print size, as far as I've seen!

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## Korba

Love the look of the coast, parchment, lines and text boxes (in particular)  :Smile: 

Once comment from me (also on the Shibboleth map) is that in the far south you have a river system that looks like it forms a ring, might be a canal etc. but thought I would mention.

Korba

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## gilgamec

I like the look of these maps!  The line and style is really cool, especially the water fill (which is too much zoomed in, but probably looks much better at 300dpi). A couple of things:
 - Is there a reason for the strange projections? Are they supposed to match up with a smaller-scale map which has Shibboleth and Jurras on the west side and Tzallrach and Cuth to the east? Otherwise, it might be a better idea to choose a different projection so north/south is up/down.
 - Again, if these are supposed to be excerpts it might be understandable, but on a standalone map, even one with a tilted graticule, I think the labels would look much better horizontally aligned instead of aligned parallel to the parallels.
 - Is it supposed to be "Latitude East of ..."?  Because normally latitude doesn't work that way.

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## Eilathen

Very cool, Vorro. Glad to see you are still around and working on this  :Smile:  I hope we will see this finished some day! I know i'd like to read it.

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## vorropohaiah

> I like the look of these maps!  The line and style is really cool, especially the water fill (which is too much zoomed in, but probably looks much better at 300dpi). A couple of things:
>  - Is there a reason for the strange projections? Are they supposed to match up with a smaller-scale map which has Shibboleth and Jurras on the west side and Tzallrach and Cuth to the east? Otherwise, it might be a better idea to choose a different projection so north/south is up/down.
>  - Again, if these are supposed to be excerpts it might be understandable, but on a standalone map, even one with a tilted graticule, I think the labels would look much better horizontally aligned instead of aligned parallel to the parallels.
>  - Is it supposed to be "Latitude East of ..."?  Because normally latitude doesn't work that way.


not quite sure I get what you mean. Like most real-world cartographers I try to make the best use of space possible so some maps - like Cuth, which is more W - E oriented than N - S, makes more sense in landscape than portrait. 

The 'latitude west/east of' is intended to give an idea of orientation - since I'm using an equidistant conic projection its impossible to apply a compass rose. Hopefully the form of the graticules should indicate where N is, though I might be making a mistaken assumption. also, for the sake of clarity Deochan (which appears in the 'latitude east of Deachan' is my world's equivalent of Greenwich

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## gilgamec

> not quite sure I get what you mean. Like most real-world cartographers I try to make the best use of space possible so some maps - like Cuth, which is more W - E oriented than N - S, makes more sense in landscape than portrait.


I'm referring to the fact that none of your graticules are aligned with the page, either vertically or horizontally; maps I've seen generally have the projection centered inside the area being mapped, which causes the lines of longitude to be close to vertical. This means that your maps, where all of the lines of longitude (well, the vertical lines at least) are leaning the same way, look like they're all taken from one side or another of a larger map.

For example, a common projection used to map the USA is a conic:

It's centered on 100 degrees, so the longitude lines west of this tilt right, and the lines east of it tilt left. Your maps look like if I'd used this projection to do a map of New England:

i.e. all of the lines tilt left. But if I were actually doing a map of New England, I'd use a projection centered on New England, like this one, centered at 70 degrees:

I hope this explains my comment.




> The 'latitude west/east of' is intended to give an idea of orientation - since I'm using an equidistant conic projection its impossible to apply a compass rose. Hopefully the form of the graticules should indicate where N is, though I might be making a mistaken assumption. also, for the sake of clarity Deochan (which appears in the 'latitude east of Deachan' is my world's equivalent of Greenwich


On Earth, at least, lines of latitude run east-west, while lines of longitude run north-south, so you see "90 degrees _longitude_ east of Greenwich" and the like.

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## Jalyha

I think the projection is fine.  Not all maps are centered north-south, and every map doesn't have to conform to the "norm".

Also, this is not earth.  :Smile: 

Pretty sure the longitude/latitude thing is right, though..  :Confused:

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## Lingon

Centering the map so one longitude is vertical is certainly the usual way, but I think the tilt is pretty cool. Not a lot of people do it, so it gives another element of Vorro to the maps  :Smile:

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## Diamond

Vorro, you magnificent SOB!  These are great so far.  I was wondering where you'd got off to; good to have you posting again!

If I'm not mistaken, one reason for unusual graticule orientation may be to most effectively center/orient the region being mapped on the piece of paper.  In the Tzallrach one in particular, if vorro was to horizontally/vertically square up the graticules with the paper's edge, he'd have large zones in the southeast and northwest that really aren't the main focus of the map and would contribute nothing but dead space to the map.  With this orientation, only the essential zone/area being mapped is shown and one can still get a sense of direction from the graticules.

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## vorropohaiah

> I'm referring to the fact that none of your graticules are aligned with the page, either vertically or horizontally; maps I've seen generally have the projection centered inside the area being mapped, which causes the lines of longitude to be close to vertical. This means that your maps, where all of the lines of longitude (well, the vertical lines at least) are leaning the same way, look like they're all taken from one side or another of a larger map.





> If I'm not mistaken, one reason for unusual graticule orientation may be to most effectively center/orient the region being mapped on the piece of paper.  In the Tzallrach one in particular, if vorro was to horizontally/vertically square up the graticules with the paper's edge, he'd have large zones in the southeast and northwest that really aren't the main focus of the map and would contribute nothing but dead space to the map.  With this orientation, only the essential zone/area being mapped is shown and one can still get a sense of direction from the graticules.


Ah see what you mean now, though Diamond explains it better than I was managing! It's certainly not the norm though some maps of the period I'm emulating, especially atlas pages, tend to do this. Thanks for bringing it up though as thats the sort of critique im looking for - anything i might have missed myself! 




> On Earth, at least, lines of latitude run east-west, while lines of longitude run north-south, so you see "90 degrees _longitude_ east of Greenwich" and the like.


Gah, you're right! That was an honest mistake on my part, mixing up the one with the other - thanks for pointing that out!




> I think the projection is fine.  Not all maps are centered north-south, and every map doesn't have to conform to the "norm".





> Centering the map so one longitude is vertical is certainly the usual way, but I think the tilt is pretty cool. Not a lot of people do it, so it gives another element of Vorro to the maps


thanks! I was waiting to see what other members thought of this, to see if there was a general consensus for orienting the grats to the page, though I think I'll keep them as is. These are meant to be purely functional and in that regard I think the orienting of individual maps to better fit into the page makes more sense.

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## vorropohaiah

I've been working away at more of these, trying to get the neatlines and graticules out of the way on as many maps as possible (very tedious, and possibly the most time-consuming part of each map, other than the labelling, probably). Got nine done in all so far. I've tinkered a bit with the degrees - making every tenth number bigger than the others. And I also tried my hand a little characterful thing I often see in atlases - making certain areas protrude form the neatline as way of better using page space. i think they look quite nice, though wondered what you all thought? 

I've also started coming across areas of maps whose peripheries copy maps that I've already made, though in different orientations and scales, it's been fun challenging myself to make sure I'm not changing any areas and that everything aligns up properly - for instance the bottom right of the new Venthir map includes the bottom left of the Tzallrach (Char Mathi) map; or the entire right-hand side of the Korachan map is repeated in the Pelasgos map. To make sure I don't map the same coastlines twice with different results I'm using the same land layer masks on different maps when they share land area - the best way to make sure coastlines remain correctly proportioned to one-another and properly aligned. I'll be coming across this more and more as I go along. 

Something else I'm also thinking of doing is dividing larger nations or those with lots of different territories, like Almagest and Korachan, respectively, into many smaller maps with more detailed information - like perhaps heraldry or other pertinent information.

Included in the new maps is a map of the Haréshk, which some of you might remember is a region of my world I've already mapped. That was a native map, this will be a foreigners' map of the same region. This map also contains a small inset map of an island that's part of the Haréshki kingdoms though which did not fit on the page - I'm pleased with it but I'm not sure it's entirely clear. any feedback on this? I've also uploaded a resized and re-oriented version of the Korachan map that's been changed to be more in-line with the new pages. 

*more maps on post #1

    

*the cartouche on the Pelasgos map is not final as it covers up most of the pertinent land mass. Having said that the cartouches are just place-holders for now and might be removed completely or changed




> Once comment from me (also on the Shibboleth map) is that in the far south you have a river system that looks like it forms a ring, might be a canal etc. but thought I would mention.


well im no member of the river police, but there are upland regions separating the different branches of the river. as an example of scale - one degree of latitude is 105.04 miles

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## Jalyha

I like them all  :Smile: 


I *personally* don't like the place where it goes past the neat lines, (probably my OCD), but I can see where it would be useful  :Smile: 

Everything else looks good to me  :Very Happy:

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## Diamond

Looking good as usual.  I don't have an issue with extending parts past the neatline - I've done it myself in the past, and as you said, it IS an established practice, so it's not like you're breaking down the very barriers of reality!!!!!   :Very Happy: 

As far as that island on the Hareshk map - the placement of it now makes it appear as though the land in the southeast corner of the map is an isthmus.  What about moving the inset map up above the cartouche?

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## arsheesh

Looking great vorropohaiah, can't wait to see the finished product.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

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## vorropohaiah

> As far as that island on the Hareshk map - the placement of it now makes it appear as though the land in the southeast corner of the map is an isthmus.  What about moving the inset map up above the cartouche?


I can see how moving it away from the corner might make it clrearer - but I'm not seeing the isthmus you mention. can you elaborate?

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## Veldehar

Now this is a WIP to follow! Looking forward to this run of maps for sure. great work.

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## Diamond

Here you go...

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## Jalyha

Ohhh


That confused me too  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

> Here you go...


Ok, still doesn't look much like an isthmus to me but I get what you mean. Perhaps if I move the inset box away from the page edge so the underlying map is visible all round, that might make more sense?

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## Jalyha

I think it would work better higher up, but that might work too o.o

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## vorropohaiah

i'll try both and post them up when i have chance to.

in the meantime, here's another region, Azazem/ This is another map that's adjacent to a region I've already mapped (Korachan to the west) so I had to refer to the Korachan map to make sure the coastline overlapped perfectly. Though looking at it the coastline, particularly in the middle and western part of the map seems a bit meh - might need to go over it to add some more oomph, whatever oomph is  :Smile:

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## Ilanthar

Vorropohaiah, I think your link is broken (unfortunately).

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## vorropohaiah

fixed. Dont know what happened there

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## Lingon

I think the coastline is good. Every coast can't be oomphy, some meh is needed too  :Razz:  Look at North Africa, that's some really meh coast… but then you have the extreme oomph of Greece and Turkey just north of it, which gets emphasized by the meh. Contrast is good  :Smile: 

By the way… your project is extremely cool and I love reading about the process and your thoughts about it.

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## vorropohaiah

guess its like Scandinavia and the Bay of Biscay. Thanks for the feedback

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## vorropohaiah

some more maps for the Atlas. Also, i was compliling a list of some other kinds of maps i could include in the atlas and came up with this:
religion maps (range of certain faiths and the territories and numbers where they are most popular)continent mapspolar mapstrade mapslanguage mapswind / climate mapsweather mapslandmass mapsempire maps/expansions over time.war mapsexploratory maps

that should keep me busy for a while, especially considering I've barely scratched the surface of the normal maps. Which reminds me, i need to redo the Korachan and shibboleth maps as the projections are different to those of the other maps and don't match up the way they should do. Also, as i do more maps for the inner sea region, the coastlines are starting to converge - with lots of repetition, particularly the islands in the Khamid and Tzallrach maps, for instance.

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## Raptori

I love these maps. Are you planning to have a similar level of detail to the Korachan one (posted on page 2) on all the maps eventually? Looks like an insane amount of work, but it's definitely worth it!

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## Lingon

I thought of two things just now:
1. I haven't said how much I like this style, I think. The light blue and the red, the subtle paper texture, the borders and cartouches, everything fits together in a very beautiful and unexpected way. It feels sci-fi, fantasy and historical at the same time, without any clichés. Which, I realized as I typed it, is quite the accomplishment.
2. Since they are all going to be in an atlas and show the same time period, maybe the cartouches don't have to say "A map of" and "In the age of the Reaffirmation Wars"? Unless there's a point to the repetition, it feels mostly like… repetition  :Wink:

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## Llannagh

Howly cow, you're productive! Unfortunately I haven't been able to read much further on your blog, but that last update inspired me just by skimming through it.

Lingon seems to be right though. If those maps do appear in an atlas, wouldn't the book/tome/book-thingy give information about the map's background? On the other hand, though, if it's going to be in a way as the David Rumsey Collection, those maps might as well be from different time periods. Hm...

Anyway, I like the style and look forward to the complete collection!  :Wink:

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## vorropohaiah

> I love these maps. Are you planning to have a similar level of detail to the Korachan one (posted on page 2) on all the maps eventually? Looks like an insane amount of work, but it's definitely worth it!


They should do, though as you say it's a lot of detail and it probably won't be coming any time soon! Also, I'm still at odds as to how to represent some features like woodlands, mountains, quarries etc.




> 2. Since they are all going to be in an atlas and show the same time period, maybe the cartouches don't have to say "A map of" and "In the age of the Reaffirmation Wars"? Unless there's a point to the repetition, it feels mostly like… repetition





> Lingon seems to be right though. If those maps do appear in an atlas, wouldn't the book/tome/book-thingy give information about the map's background? On the other hand, though, if it's going to be in a way as the David Rumsey Collection, those maps might as well be from different time periods. Hm...


I see your point - so a generic title bar with the name and none of that reaffirmation war nonsense, and a cartouched farther down with key and scale details etc. That will also free up more room in the map itself

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## Lingon

Yay, I'm helping! *Zoidberg voice*

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## Raptori

> They should do, though as you say it's a lot of detail and it probably won't be coming any time soon! Also, I'm still at odds as to how to represent some features like woodlands, mountains, quarries etc.


Haha yeah, looks like years worth of work to me!

I think it'd take more work to put all that info into one map and make it work than it would be to separate them out into different maps. Judging by that Korachan one they're spot on for displaying political information, and adding more detail might end up making them less effective. Mountains (and some other features like lakes) are definitely important enough in politics for them to be included, but they can be nice and subtle, like in this map. Most other physical features like different biomes would be better represented in their own maps, and important features like quarries I guess could be represented pretty easily by different icons?

However, if you can work out a way to do it all in one map then that'd be impressive!  :Very Happy:

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## Pixie

Your whole world building is an inspiration, vorropohaiah. Congrats on all the work you've been doing.

If you want more ideas for maps, here are some:
land use
relief
population density

check this webpage where you can find some of them for a country (Haiti, random choice): 
NationMaster - Maps of Haiti (11 in total)

Your atlas style looks pretty modern, so I am wondering if your world is already deep into industrial era or beyond. If so, natural resources is a matter of key importance and it would be normal to see continental maps charting coal, oil and other mineral rich regions.

Again, huge and impressive work!

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## vorropohaiah

> Haha yeah, looks like years worth of work to me!
> 
> I think it'd take more work to put all that info into one map and make it work than it would be to separate them out into different maps. Judging by that Korachan one they're spot on for displaying political information, and adding more detail might end up making them less effective. Mountains (and some other features like lakes) are definitely important enough in politics for them to be included, but they can be nice and subtle, like in this map. Most other physical features like different biomes would be better represented in their own maps, and important features like quarries I guess could be represented pretty easily by different icons?


That's a cool map and mucha s i like those mountains and think theyll be so much easier toget done than the marching caterpillars i dont think theyll fit in - they seem a bit too modern. though it might be worth it to try a mock up, as i really am not looking forward to doing those marching caterpillars...




> Your whole world building is an inspiration, vorropohaiah. Congrats on all the work you've been doing.
> Your atlas style looks pretty modern, so I am wondering if your world is already deep into industrial era or beyond. If so, natural resources is a matter of key importance and it would be normal to see continental maps charting coal, oil and other mineral rich regions.
> 
> Again, huge and impressive work!


the world is at best post industrial age, so resources would be a great feature i idnt even think of!

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## Raptori

> That's a cool map and mucha s i like those mountains and think theyll be so much easier toget done than the marching caterpillars i dont think theyll fit in - they seem a bit too modern. though it might be worth it to try a mock up, as i really am not looking forward to doing those marching caterpillars...


Yeah I get what you mean, they do look a bit too modern when you compare them to the rest of the map.

Something that might match your style a bit better could be this: 



I love that style, but it might take a similar amount of work to the marching caterpillars, so really that'd just be a stylistic thing. It'd save you from having to work out what to make the icons look like to match the maps though, so that's one plus at least!

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## Lingon

Here's another idea for the mountains:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...arine-1851.jpg

It probably shows much more mountain detail than you need in these maps, but I think a similar style could work if you only draw the relevant ranges.

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## vorropohaiah

> Yeah I get what you mean, they do look a bit too modern when you compare them to the rest of the map.
> 
> Something that might match your style a bit better could be this: 
> 
> 
> I love that style, but it might take a similar amount of work to the marching caterpillars, so really that'd just be a stylistic thing. It'd save you from having to work out what to make the icons look like to match the maps though, so that's one plus at least!


I'm a big fan of that map actually and i was considering that style of mountqain ut its actually a lot more work than the marching caterpillars, which can be achieved relatively easily by stroking a line with a wedge shape (in theory). these dinotopia ones are much more attractive though far more time consuming to get done. A dilemma, for sure!




> Here's another idea for the mountains:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...arine-1851.jpg
> 
> It probably shows much more mountain detail than you need in these maps, but I think a similar style could work if you only draw the relevant ranges.


gorgeous! but far beyond the scope what these maps want or need to convey, also im not sure i'd even be able to convincingly recreate such contours, in a timel fashion, at least! thanks for the suggestion, though

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## Raptori

> I'm a big fan of that map actually and i was considering that style of mountqain ut its actually a lot more work than the marching caterpillars, which can be achieved relatively easily by stroking a line with a wedge shape (in theory). these dinotopia ones are much more attractive though far more time consuming to get done. A dilemma, for sure!


Ahh fair enough, I've never tried either. I wonder if there's a way to get that effect in Photoshop using layer styles.. it might be possible to create parallel lines radiating down a gradient, but then you'd have to go back and add some more detailing to emphasise the slope. Might not be worth it even if it's possible, but I might give it a go at some point. I do think it'd be a perfect fit with the rest of the map style though!





> Here's another idea for the mountains:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...arine-1851.jpg
> 
> It probably shows much more mountain detail than you need in these maps, but I think a similar style could work if you only draw the relevant ranges.


That's lovely... how people had the patience I'll never know.

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## vorropohaiah

yeah that map really is detailed - I shudder to think on how long it must have taken to make, and if not, the talent needed! beyond my attention span, that's for sure

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## Raptori

I really want to use that mountain style at some point, but I'm lazy and want a short cut. I messed around in Illustrator for 10 minutes and came up with this (with a little texture added in Photoshop to make it look like it's been inked):



Obviously it could do with some variation in the length and shape of the lines, but that's dead simple. Getting the end points of the ranges to look right might be a bit fiddly though. I'll have to play around some more and see whether I can get it to work. What do you think could make it closer to that style? If I can get it right I'd be happy to post a tutorial so you can use it in these maps  :Smile:

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## Llannagh

I actually just spent yesterdy (the whole of it) trying to recreate the style from the dino-map. I almost lost my mind. My template was this and this. 

No matter what I did, it always looked crappy and was way too much work. What I came up with was that, dunno if that would work for you:



The ridgeline in the middle is just for guidance, in this case I just forgot to put it on an extra layer, that's why it's still there...
I used a soft brush with a fine texture and low opacity and flow. Maybe that's something to work off.

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## Diamond

I think I may have already mentioned this to you, vorro, but a member here, Bill Hooks, put together some pretty convincing caterpillar-style brushes: http://www.cartographersguild.com/ma...n-brushes.html.  I've used them on a couple of different maps, and with some minor tweaking, they look pretty great.

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## vorropohaiah

> I really want to use that mountain style at some point, but I'm lazy and want a short cut. I messed around in Illustrator for 10 minutes and came up with this (with a little texture added in Photoshop to make it look like it's been inked):
> 
> Obviously it could do with some variation in the length and shape of the lines, but that's dead simple. Getting the end points of the ranges to look right might be a bit fiddly though. I'll have to play around some more and see whether I can get it to work. What do you think could make it closer to that style? If I can get it right I'd be happy to post a tutorial so you can use it in these maps


thats pretty good! shame i dont know illustrator (considering the map style im going for id probably be saving a lot of time using netscape or illustrator) 




> I think I may have already mentioned this to you, vorro, but a member here, Bill Hooks, put together some pretty convincing caterpillar-style brushes: http://www.cartographersguild.com/ma...n-brushes.html.  I've used them on a couple of different maps, and with some minor tweaking, they look pretty great.


i had seen these. though theyre good as theyre not that flexible and will involve a lot of editing and copy/pasting - though still easier than makin them all from scratch. als theres a matter of licencing - i might publish the atlas at some point and want to make sure im using oppen resources like fonts and brushes

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## Raptori

> thats pretty good! shame i dont know illustrator (considering the map style im going for id probably be saving a lot of time using netscape or illustrator)


Funny, I'd have guessed you were using Illustrator since those maps look very vector-like.

That technique wouldn't require any knowledge of illustrator really, it's basically just use pen tool + apply a brush then adjust the width of the line, so dead simple. Making it look more hand drawn seems to be a little more difficult... I wish it would be possible to have the brush resize at random like you can with Photoshop :/

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## Eilathen

[heartfelt plea]
Oh please please no caterpillar mountains! There are so many nice suggestions from Lingon, Raptori and others that look sooo much better than those non-mountains that are the caterpillars.
[/heartfelt plea]

 :Very Happy:

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## vorropohaiah

well since they're political maps its not that important that there are mountains or not. i might go for something like what raptori suggested (the europe and Dinotopia maps) though neither are strictly necessary. the dinotopia ones are nice though the only way i can see myself doing them is printing out a 50% opacity version of the map in full scale and painting them in by hand as im not convinced i can do them on a tablet. (my bamboo is in dire need of an update!)

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## Raptori

> well since they're political maps its not that important that there are mountains or not. i might go for something like what raptori suggested (the europe and Dinotopia maps) though neither are strictly necessary. the dinotopia ones are nice though the only way i can see myself doing them is printing out a 50% opacity version of the map in full scale and painting them in by hand as im not convinced i can do them on a tablet. (my bamboo is in dire need of an update!)


Their importance would really depend on the technological level of the time. If it's easy to cross the mountains/go around them then they're probably not important. If they're a significant barrier to travel though, they'd play a major part in the how each area coalesces into a new culture, and how they'd interact with their neighbours. I'm just about to start reading Guns, Germs and Steel which is supposed to really do a good job of discussing that, should be an interesting read.

Yah I was thinking the same - those mountains might be a case where drawing manually is a lot easier. I love my tablet - if you have 700€ to spare I can't recommend the Yiynova MSP19u enough (this review is pretty accurate)! The ability to draw directly on the screen should make those much easier; sadly my partner uses it most of the time, so I may have to steal it back to try that actually... Edit: just looked at the latest post on that guy's tumblr - turns out there's a similar tablet now out for $389...

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## Pixie

> I'm just about to start reading Guns, Germs and Steel which is supposed to really do a good job of discussing that, should be an interesting read.


You just can't go about world building without reading this! Good choice for reading  :Wink:

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## Raptori

> You just can't go about world building without reading this! Good choice for reading


I've been wanting to read it for a couple of years now, ever since I read Collapse. I'm holding off doing anything more on my worldbuilding until I've read it, but I've got to finish The City and The City before I can get on to GG&S...  :Very Happy:

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## vorropohaiah

might have to check that out myself  :Smile: 

I'm thinking of perhaps something along these lines even if its perhaps 8-0 years too modern. I'm trying to find when these maps came into style to see if it's 'historically' possible. Though I'm worried the colours might make it a bit too busy

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## Raptori

It would look very detailed, but it'd probably work quite nicely if you keep the colour scheme quite toned down. It might actually top the other options in terms of amount of effort to do though  :Razz:

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## vorropohaiah

> It might actually top the other options in terms of amount of effort to do though


I think so! but its actually my favourite type of mountains. much more detailed

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## Raptori

Yeah same, it's by a mile the clearest way of showing the altitude, and it can look really nice too. Reminds me of the scene in Ender's Game where he draws the contour lines for an island, then makes his desk display it as a 3D object... *wishful thinking* lol

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## Llannagh

I agree, it would definitely look great, especially if you tone it down, but it looks like an awful amount of work!

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## Lingon

That look would be perfect! At first, I didn't like it, then I saw how well it would fit with the other elements in your maps. I say go for it  :Smile: 

Funnily, it would be quite easy to get that effect with watercolors. Layering thin red washes with a small round brush, letting the previous layer dry completely first, would give a very similar look, including the dark edges and the slight texture.

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## Ilanthar

I can only support the idea! Because it reminds me of my old atlas _And_ because the first fantasy map I made, I had used this kind of mountains  :Smile:

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## Eilathen

Well, hell yes is all i can say!  :Wink:  That'd be a very nice style. Hope you can pull it off, Vorro!

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## vorropohaiah

So, I’ve got some more work done on the Atlas entries as well as some tweaks and minor adjustments that no-one other than myself is likely to even notice and I’m getting closer to finding a style I’m happy with (though I’m still torn about the mountains, though i'll keep that for another day...

Of these new maps the most complex, by far is the one detailing twin nations of Ahrishen and Virahan. This is largely due to the many lakes, the relatively small scale (compare this map with the one of Ezasuth, for instance), and the fact that the regions to the west, south-east and east had already been mapped (Vârr, the Haréshk and Nakhé, respectively) so there was a lot of back and forth between this map and the older ones to make sure that everything (borders, coastlines, graticules) lined up and scaled together correctly.



I think I done a decent job (though it’s far from done…), though I realise that the maps are nothing much to look at at the moment and wont exactly be arty maps when they're done - they're political maps, detailing resources, roads, trade routes and such things and are functional rather than pretty,though I hope the Atlas can be seen as a work of art in some respects once its done. Also, the more maps I get done the more time-consuming the task gets. Also, the more maps I get done means the farther away from my comfort zone (Inner Sea) I get, which means more terra incognita: the lands around Korachan are very familiar as I’ve been working on them for coming up to a year now, though the farther afield I move the more unexplored certain regions become.

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## vorropohaiah

Of the maps I've worked on so far I think my favourites have to be Khamid, Venthir and Tzallrach since they represent neighbouring regions and the distinctive coastlines can be recognised from map to map, despite the differences in scale and orientation

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## Raptori

Do you have a map of the entire planet? I've seen the maps of the Inner Sea, is that continent the whole world or is there more? I've had a quick look around but can't find anything  :Razz:

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## vorropohaiah

> Do you have a map of the entire planet? I've seen the maps of the Inner Sea, is that continent the whole world or is there more? I've had a quick look around but can't find anything


Sure. The inner Sea is equitable to just a Mediterranean-like region of the world, so Is only a small part of the world. There’s a link in my sig for a stereographic map im also working on (also gigantic) which displays the world in a stereographic projection. 

For convenience’s sake here’s a few images of the world map in different states.

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## Raptori

Awesome thanks, looks great  :Smile:

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## Viking

I am so happy to see more of your work Vorro!

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## vorropohaiah

4 new maps. All around the Inner Sea.

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## Lingon

You're turning these out really quickly! I love the name Lyridia Dhai… "Lyridia" has this really nice greyish Prussian blue hue, and Dhai is a soft brown, but there are also streaks of a deep red and a strong, golden yellow through both of them… I'm weird.

Anyway, I noticed a typo: independent, in Lyridia Dhai's cartouche, is misspelled.

By the way, is the plan to finish all the maps to this stage before detailing them?

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## vorropohaiah

thanks for spotting that, ill fix it as soon as possible. 

I like the colour descriptors of the word. Nice to see these invented words evoke some form of sensation.

I wasn't actively planning on finishing all the maps in this stage before i carry on, though it is helpful to the writing to have larger scale maps available. One thing i want to add to them is a scale bar to better be able to measure distances, especially as some of the maps are at very different scales. 

I'd like to get the territories and borders done on at least a few of the more simple maps, at least to get an idea of what I'm aiming for (starting with what are possibly the two most complex maps I've done so far [Korachan and shibboleth] was a bad idea!). though its the forests/mountains and labelling that i'm dreading most!

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## vorropohaiah

3 more maps. The Inner Sea coastline is coming together pretty nicely now, though the new maps are taking longer to get done as i need to make sure the coastlines all line up with previous maps. I also started work on the borders/territory markers and hope to get something posted by the weekend.

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## Raptori

Looking good as always  :Smile: 

Is the "A map of" necessary? Now that the other text is gone, it could make more sense to remove it. For one thing it's a bit redundant since it's in the map section of the encyclopedia, for another it's even more redundant because anyone can see it's a map  :Razz: 

"The Secular Republic of Parthis and its Suzerain States", for example, is exactly the amount of information required. The rest of the maps feel like they've got a high level of precision - it'd make sense to reflect this in the labelling wherever possible  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

> Is the "A map of" necessary? Now that the other text is gone, it could make more sense to remove it. For one thing it's a bit redundant since it's in the map section of the encyclopedia, for another it's even more redundant because anyone can see it's a map 
> 
> "The Secular Republic of Parthis and its Suzerain States", for example, is exactly the amount of information required. The rest of the maps feel like they've got a high level of precision - it'd make sense to reflect this in the labelling wherever possible


True. something else to get rid of  :Smile: 

@ Diamond - the Halolach map above includes an inset map. how does this one compare to the one you commented on earlier?

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## Soixante

Hi vorropohaiah. I'm a big fan of your world-building and cartography project. Since I have been for a long time been meaning to do an atlas of my own world, I wanted to ask how you get correct longitude and latitude graticules? I know Fractal Terrains can do this, but when you're using a pre-built world with existing coastlines? More specifically, how do you go about changing the projection from a worldview map to a regional map, and even if you decided not to do this; how would you go about re-centering the projection for each regional map, all while keeping the graticule consistent with the overall map? I want to do a traditional atlas type graticule, with the central line of longitude being more or less vertical. This has been giving me a lot of headaches as I just can't figure out how to do it.

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## Raptori

> Hi vorropohaiah. I'm a big fan of your world-building and cartography project. Since I have been for a long time been meaning to do an atlas of my own world, I wanted to ask how you get correct longitude and latitude graticules? I know Fractal Terrains can do this, but when you're using a pre-built world with existing coastlines? More specifically, how do you go about changing the projection from a worldview map to a regional map, and even if you decided not to do this; how would you go about re-centering the projection for each regional map, all while keeping the graticule consistent with the overall map? I want to do a traditional atlas type graticule, with the central line of longitude being more or less vertical. This has been giving me a lot of headaches as I just can't figure out how to do it.


I don't know about vorro, but I use NASA's free G.Projector program to do this.

I created an equirectangular map of my world without any graticules on it, with continents in white and oceans in black. When I want a new projection I open G.Projector and select that map. I then fiddle with the options (different map projections, graticule settings, latitude and longitude of the center point, etc) then once I've got a projection that I like covering the correct area, I then export it as a jpg at the largest size possible. The exported jpg is used as a template from which I create the map.

I know some other people on here use the same program (I think - Max - does, for example), though their techniques might vary a bit  :Smile:

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## - Max -

Actually I'm also using G.Projector. Once the projection imported in photoshop, I just get rid of G.Projector graticules to draw mines using paths.

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## vorropohaiah

> Hi vorropohaiah. I'm a big fan of your world-building and cartography project. Since I have been for a long time been meaning to do an atlas of my own world, I wanted to ask how you get correct longitude and latitude graticules? I know Fractal Terrains can do this, but when you're using a pre-built world with existing coastlines? More specifically, how do you go about changing the projection from a worldview map to a regional map, and even if you decided not to do this; how would you go about re-centering the projection for each regional map, all while keeping the graticule consistent with the overall map? I want to do a traditional atlas type graticule, with the central line of longitude being more or less vertical. This has been giving me a lot of headaches as I just can't figure out how to do it.


Pretty much what Raptori and -Max- said  :Smile: 

 in more detail - i have an equirectangular worldmap (black land white sea) which i import into g. Projector. Generall i use an equidistant conic map, thugh the projection depends on the latitude. i then export a map without graticules, keeping a note of the settings. I then use a blank map and export another one with graticules. I then use those exported g.projector maps as templates, tracing the coastlines in more detail on one an the graticules on the other.

Obviously if youre making an atlas, keep in mind regions youve already mapped when youre mapping adjacent regions - dont retrace the coastlines if theyve already been done, otherwise youll end up with conflicting areas!

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## J.Edward

After Raptori said about using a brush to do caterpillar ranges I tried out some in PS. I put them up if you wanted to try them out.
I'm really enjoying your thorough style and wanted to help out if I could.
Here's the link http://www.cartographersguild.com/ma...tml#post250987
and here's what the brushes look like

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## vorropohaiah

great stuff! and i was about to start redoing the atlas pages so i might have a go using these

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## vorropohaiah

so, I've started work on this again. Though I haven't posted much over the past year-or-so, I've been slowly tinkering away on this between other projects. I've settled on a colour palette I'm happy with, and have decided to rotate the maps to make the longitude lines line up with the page orientation a bit better than before. 

Now it's just a matter of adding the labels, which, as always takes time with me  :Smile: 

Below are the two maps I'm actively working on at the moment: The first is a political map, depicting Korachan, centre of the High-empire; and the second is one of various 'feature' maps I have planned, depicting not necessarily nations, but particular regions. This is the Shibboleth, one of Elyden's largest rivers:

 

The maps were re-oriented and re-scaled from the previous versions so most of the labels need to be repositioned to line up with the latitude lines. 

I'm not 100% sold on the fonts yet (so far I'm using various fonts from the IM fell family), though they will do for now.  

The shaded areas in the maps are the areas of focus and will be described in a small cartouche, though the previous style cartouches wont be used (a generic key will feature in the beginning of the Atlas. The shaded area in the first map denotes the lands of the nation of Korachan (in the north) as well as the Dichotocratic Republic of Hoamm (in the south). Another map will focus on Hoamm in more detail, and another will concentrate on Korachani colonies, in insert atlas style. The second map is the drainage basin of the river Shibboleth and will concentrate on tributaries and other river-related labels in favour of normal placces (though capitals and major cities wwill be featured).

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## vorropohaiah

o work on the Korachani map for the Atlas Elyden is close to completion. Theres still work to be done with the mountains and some other physical features, but more on that after the map:



Im quite pleased with the map overall though theres still work to be done. The labels are clear (though I already notice some labels, like the mountains and larger geographical features are too dark, especially compared with the nations), the colours are what I was aiming for (though the actual printed map in the Atlas Elyden will be missing the weathered look to make printing easier) and the overall style is what I was aiming for. One down, about 100 left to go To give you an idea of what that means: this map alone ended up with me adding over 150 new entries to the Encyclopaedia Elyden. Imagine what the whole Atlas will add to the Encyclopaedia!

Ive come up with a symbol-based resource key thats going to be used across the Atlas, which explains why there isnt a key in this map  the complete Atlas will have a 2-page spread at the beginning of the Atlas detailing the key, labels and other details so they dont need repeating across all the maps thereafter. In a nutshell Ive come up with a few dozen symbols pertaining to resources and industries  pickaxe for mining, fish for fishing, grain for farming, etc.  think most are pretty intuitive, though some, though want of better design, might not be. One particular symbol Im having trouble with is the symbol for dross (a slurry-like food thats a staple amongst the lower classes and slaves of most nations, made from everything you can think of  discarded veg & fruit, insects, grizzle & animal fat, human & animal corpses, and other things), which is a bowl. Hopefully its good enough as I really cant think of anything else to use as a symbol.



Theres various roads and routes  main roads, roads, pilgrimages (the Shadow March) and sea routes. I was thinking of adding distances to the sea routes (which I cant do with the land routes, due to there being so many labels!), but Im not sure theyre necessary in this map (other than for my own ease of reference when writing fiction based in those areas)

This particular map will be presented in landscape orientation, with each individual leaf sized at A4 (for a total size of A3). Once all the maps are done Ill have to add a gutter (3mm per page half) to make it easier to read the map (something I notice most modern atlases seem to ignore), which is why the border on the top and bottom of the page are larger than the left and right.

The page borders have not only the standard graticules and degrees but also an alphanumerical grid (A1, B2, C3 etc.) which will be used for the index in the back of the Atlas, listing every entry alphabetically. I'm going to start work on that now that I've finished this map, to give me an idea of how long the index will be. I'll post that once i'm ready with it.

I also added a focus the map. In this case the focus is Korachan and Hoamm, so I faded all other territories by greying them out, as well as their labels and keys. Im not sure if that comes across well in the finished product  any feedback on this, or anything else in general?
Obviously this leaves me with mountains and other geological features (marshlands, deserts, salt pans, reefs etc.). The mountains, as always, are giving me a hassle as I just cannot settle on a style that I like and feel fits in with atlas style & time period Im aiming for. I like coloured topography maps but fear they are too modern for the relative time period Im aiming for (1880  1900), which leaves me with my nemesis  the hairy caterpillar ridges, which are very time-consuming. Though if I spent as much time drawing them as I spent complaining about them Id probably have done them by now!

#Atlaselyden, #Encyclopaediaelyden, #Korachan, #Fantasy cartography, #Elyden

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## Eilathen

A very clean and efficient style! Even if i liked your old Elyden maps a lot more, this is still a very good looking map. It does feel very modern but then again the 1900 are quite modern  :Wink:  And count me in as someone who's not a fan of caterpillars as well (though probably for very different reasons  :Very Happy:  ).

I love the symbology, btw. Gives it a lot of "character".

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## J.Edward

It looks really good and clean Vorro. 
There probably isn't a 'dated' style of mountains that wouldn't somehow take a long time to do.
I look forward to seeing whatever you decide to do.

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## vorropohaiah

I'm thinking of a greyscale topography style, using something simple (like from the Saderan tutorial) and see how that works. 

in the meantime I've spent most of the day updating the labels on the map to correspond with the key that I've been working on:



Still quite a few things left to add but I think it's a pretty good basis for the map.

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## Diamond

What's the difference between a political border and an international border?

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## Azélor

I think that 36 symbols just for cities/villages is way too much.

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## Ilanthar

It looks very good, I love your care for details! I kinda agree with Azelor about the numerous cities's symbols, though.

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## Durakken

Why are you trying to tell me the city population on a map?
Beside the heirarchy is...
Village = Around 300 people
Town = Around 2,000 people
City = Around 20,000 people
Large City = Around 100-200,000 people but changes with the era and what is considered a city... Athens which has like no defined borders was considered to have like 500,000 (forgetting the slaves which made it in the millions), but that wouldn't be considered part of the city today. 
Major City = Around 500,000 to 1,000,000 people

Villages you generally can leave off because they exist at 2-3km intervals
Towns exist roughly at 30-50km intervals
Cities of all sorts are roughly 100km intervals. Large cities and major cities are important which is why they grow so big where as regular cities are more or less just another layer of markets.

So you only really need to disinguish Towns, Cities, and Capitals imo... the rest is just information that no ones going to look at or for in most cases... That's what i think anyways.

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## tainotim

Amazing work, as always, Vorro. Could go on for some time babbling on about what I love about your work.

Concerning the labels I for one love the level of detail. Sure, on a regular fantasy map that would seem like a lot. Sure, on a regular map, it would be a lot. However, this is no regular map. With all the extensive lore you are building, with the right knowledge, such a detailed map would probably be a blessing. I mean, this kind of huge map would never work in a regular novel, but in a atlas over a fantasy world  sure why not. And recalling any fantasy-world ever, villages tend to have a bigger role then in our world.  I mean, this is supposed to be complex, right? Wouldn't it be awesome to see this kind of information in a Middle Earth map?  I think so anyway  :Smile: 

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
tainotim

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## J.Edward

> Why are you trying to tell me the city population on a map?
> Beside the heirarchy is...
> Village = Around 300 people
> Town = Around 2,000 people
> City = Around 20,000 people
> Large City = Around 100-200,000 people but changes with the era and what is considered a city... Athens which has like no defined borders was considered to have like 500,000 (forgetting the slaves which made it in the millions), but that wouldn't be considered part of the city today. 
> Major City = Around 500,000 to 1,000,000 people
> 
> Villages you generally can leave off because they exist at 2-3km intervals
> ...


While much of that may be true, relative to Earth and its history, this is another world, so it need not be so here. 
And Vorro, having created the world, would be the one determining what was important to the task of mapping it, I would think.
This is an atlas, not just one mere map. Atlases contain all sorts of information that goes well beyond a simple map.
An atlas may contain maps at different scales and as such more information and distinction of that information may be required.
So there's like, 5 cents worth.  :Very Happy: 

I like the distinction between city and fortified city. I've done some similar things with city elements in the past.
I applaud your thoroughness Vorro. I would think though that you could show the city icons and then just the 3 colors to denote those differences without 36 icons but then you might have to use words to explain which may not be as efficient as the colored icons.

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## vorropohaiah

> What's the difference between a political border and an international border?


The terms themselves are subject to change, though the gist is the former isn't necessarily a different country (it might be a vassal or slave-state), and the latter would be. So for instance a twin nation would have an 'international border' going around the circumference of both as a whole (so no black line between them) but there would be a thick purple line dividing them from each other. I did pinch these from some atlases that I've been using for reference so it's not something unheard of. 




> I think that 36 symbols just for cities/villages is way too much.


It's technically 6 (or 12 at a stretch, if you're counting the fortified variants), the others are just the colour-key for capitals, which is a normal thing for atlases to do with capitals. It's the normal key with a different colour added to identify the capital (or other important cities, like colony capitals) 




> I like the distinction between city and fortified city. I've done some similar things with city elements in the past.
> I applaud your thoroughness Vorro. I would think though that you could show the city icons and then just the 3 colors to denote those differences without 36 icons but then you might have to use words to explain which may not be as efficient as the colored icons.


That's a good suggestion actually - just the 12 city icons, with one red and orange one to show what's what. That's probably more streamlined, though if i have enough room on the key index page, i cant see why not include them that way. 




> Why are you trying to tell me the city population on a map?
> Beside the heirarchy is...
> Village = Around 300 people
> Town = Around 2,000 people
> City = Around 20,000 people
> Large City = Around 100-200,000 people but changes with the era and what is considered a city... Athens which has like no defined borders was considered to have like 500,000 (forgetting the slaves which made it in the millions), but that wouldn't be considered part of the city today. 
> Major City = Around 500,000 to 1,000,000 people
> 
> Villages you generally can leave off because they exist at 2-3km intervals
> ...





> While much of that may be true, relative to Earth and its history, this is another world, so it need not be so here. 
> And Vorro, having created the world, would be the one determining what was important to the task of mapping it, I would think.
> This is an atlas, not just one mere map. Atlases contain all sorts of information that goes well beyond a simple map.
> An atlas may contain maps at different scales and as such more information and distinction of that information may be required.
> So there's like, 5 cents worth.


Though I agree with what J Edward said - it's normal for an atlas city key to show different populations with slightly different symbols (just to be clear the populations will not be shown on the map itself, just the dot. The populations will only be included in the key index at the beginning of the atlas) - I was unaware that there's a standard for the demarcations between city sizes. Do you have any more details on this, as, even though it's a fantasy world I'd like to stick to commonly-recognised systems of measurement for simplicity's sake? And honestly - take out a real atlas and look at the key and the details in the individual maps. Most of that information is not going to be noticed by the average person. But it's there and that's what I'm trying to replicate. Also, the atlas is more of an aid for my worldbuilding and I find it helpful to have as much information available in one document, as it saves time wasted looking through different sources.

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## Durakken

> I was unaware that there's a standard for the demarcations between city sizes.


There is no standard demarcation, especially not in modern day where everything is considered a city or town regardless of actual population and more based on feel of the place.
The numbers I gave are general mideval demographic average numbers. There is no known reason why the numbers are roughly 0.2k, 2k, 20k, and 200k either, but I could take a running guess.

The reason you don't really need to separate city from fortified city is because fortified city is the standard. Walls as much keep people out as they do in and most major population centers have them. On the other hand a Fort has qualities of a city, but because it's purpose is different you wouldn't classify that in the same way and nor would you mention population there because the population there is less static than at a city.

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## vorropohaiah

well the world is 'modern'  (depending on country, many of which are in different technological and cultural stages, id place the date at 1850 - 1880 London) so most cities have outgrown (both physically and culturally) the need for walls. Though in other regions, they may be required. Some cities are still fortified behind full star-fortifications, and I felt the need to show this to be pertinent (again, more for myself when writing). The actual forts are pure military structures without civilian populations (ion fact there's no population marked alongside such places,

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## Durakken

I see. In the case of a more modern map I find that distinguishing at all is fairly pointless as it is more of a urbanized center that has a gradiant down to rural and then back up where another urban center is, because all the villages, towns, and cities have more or less merged. I personally would just identify major cities and capitals in the modern era and definitely leave out the population because it's fairly nonsensical the more you move to modern day with cities being merged together like they are, because you have people moving back and forth between them and inner major cities become just for business while the outter city and near-by cities are for living in. I don't know how bad it had gotten in that time period, but I would assume it was well into the process considering there are comments and debates about the subject at least in the Colonial era. And today that is certainly the case... 

I personly have lived on or very near roads that when crossed you're in a different city but you've gone nowhere in terms of the modern world. (in fact i lived where i could literally be in any of 4 cities depending on which corner i was on of a cross roads). 

So I would, like I said earlier in this post, more just have major cities and capitals listed... cuz it really doesn't make sense, at least to me, to list several cities that are essentially part of the same city as separate when they are neither important nor are they physically separated. But I don't look at atlases ever so I dunno ^.^ and if you're going for that type of thing I'd start with what an atlas lists and marks out first.

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## vorropohaiah

you're right about conurbations and blurred town borders (just for the sake of argument I come from a tiny country [Malta, population 400,000, where over half of our many towns are touching - cross the road and you move from one town to another. In some places a crossroad marks the boundary between 4 towns! So I know what you're talking about). Many of the icons on the map represent just that a population of 10,000, for instance, split between 5 towns and many other smaller villages in the immediate orbit. Of course this doesn't show in the map as you'd need to know more about the settlements themselves, and I doubt most people want to see such things here!

The closest icons on that map in terms of settlements are, I believe, 7-miles and that's a one-off, others are at least 10 miles distant, which I think is far enough to warrant a separate icon, especially if they're very different places.

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## vorropohaiah

So I'm looking for some feedback on this particular map. I tried out changing the orientation, so I have an example of portrait and landscape (do keep in mind this is intended for an atlas - so each of the below maps is A3, divided into 2 A4 'leaves' or pages). I'm leaning towards the landscape, which allowed me to improve the scale somewhat (increasing the map size to 108% of the original, IIRC) and it also gives me more room for inset maps depicting colonies and other parts of the nation that don't fit into the map, in proper atlas style. The downside of the Landscape orientation is I had to leave out the smaller nation of Hoamm, which will likely feature in a smaller 1-page map elsewhere in the atlas. 

Please let me know which you prefer as I'd like some feedback, thanks!

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## Durakken

I prefer the verticaal because it shows all of it seamlessly...

On that same note, it bares mentioning that that if you plan to make a printed version then you should consider overlap on the pages, because something like a half ince to an inch gets bent into the seam and makes it hard to read/transfar back to a flat image like you have here (i've done that multiple times and it is a pain and takes hours of work to do). Considering that factor, while I prefer vertical, the reasons get removed as the overlap would cause those areas to be pushed off the page and need to be pictured like you did the landscape version.

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## J.Edward

In terms of just appearance, the vertical is more attractive.
In terms of use in an atlas, the horizontal is more applicable.
You do lose a sense of place with the horizontal as the lower portion of the peninsula is cut off.
This is the quandary that is always at play when doing layout, atlas layout in particular.
You could reduce the size to show more generally but then lose detail locally.

If it were me, I would probably opt for some combination of the vertical version with a number of insets and information spanning the 2 pages.
But that might lead to consistency issues across the whole atlas.
The amount of gutter that Durakken refers to may not be substantial depending on the number of pages and the binding method.
In some methods it wouldn't even be an issue [large pages that are center folded and then stapled or stitched at spine].

----------


## Diamond

Landscape orientation, most definitely.

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## vorropohaiah

thanks guys! 

I have taken the gutter into account, which is why the short page edges have a wider space between the border and page edge - when it comes time to laying out the book ill add a 5mm gutter per page, moving the contents of each page closer to the page edge. It's one of my pet peeves that atlases don't have a much wider gutter than they do. None of the atlases I own allow the reader much option when looking at the contents near the gutter, which i always find baffling, given the whole point of an atlas!

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## Pixie

I don't know if it helps (probably doesn't) but have you considered a rotation of 45º to 60º for the map, on a landscape orientation?... you wouldn't have north at the top, but...

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## AzurePlanet

Hi Nate! I prefer the portrait orientation because I find it more substantial. The sea surrounding Korachan is splitted in the landscape orientation, but I think it's important to show it as a whole. Also, as regards the insets, I noticed that you drew grid lines without numeric reference, however you've not finished with that, I guess.

----------


## vorropohaiah

> I don't know if it helps (probably doesn't) but have you considered a rotation of 45º to 60º for the map, on a landscape orientation?... you wouldn't have north at the top, but...


I had tried that before, and posted quite a few WIP pics on the first pages of the thread though the general consensus was that most atlases avoid rotating the orientation even if it means getting a better fit in the page. I  decided to follow that, so 1 longitude line in each map needs to be parallel to the page.




> Hi Nate! I prefer the portrait orientation because I find it more substantial. The sea surrounding Korachan is splitted in the landscape orientation, but I think it's important to show it as a whole. Also, as regards the insets, I noticed that you drew grid lines without numeric reference, however you've not finished with that, I guess.


yeah, I've updated both the graticule and grid references since posting that. I;ve also added more labels to the inset maps and am starting work on the topography. fingers crossed  :Smile:

----------


## vorropohaiah

So here's my work so far on the topography. The world map will use a maximum of 10 levels of height, each representing 1-mile (the highest peak on Elyden is just under 8 miles (compared with 5.5 miles for Everest, keeping in mind that Elyden is larger, with slightly less gravity and, well, created by gods), though I may change this. So far the map below has 5 layers of elevation, so needs three more, though I need to revise the topography to make most of the map 'shallower' as it's turning out too high, given the limitation on hight I've set myself.

I have no idea how accurate or realistic my topographies are (if you spot anything wrong with them please let me know!), though I have to say I'm really enjoying making them. They are a bit time-consuming, especially as I need to try and make the map fit in with features and regions that are already established, though they're very relaxing to make! If anything I need to try and limit the amount of time I spend on them as I could get carried away, though hopefully, more time spent on the map means a better end product.

A note on the colour - these colours are just a temporary feature while I work on the map, and I have a few options in mind - colour gradient, just the topographical lines, or use the topographical lines to help me make a relief map in greyscale. I'd like to try all 3 options and see which fits in the best.

EDIT: the entire N-E part of the map is unfinished as yet - just the 'coastal' regions, so far. Also the attached map is larger than the Korachani maps in previous posts as I figured i might as well work on a larger area, in preparation for the next map.



I also settled on a portrait aspect with inset maps on the right, as shown below:

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## AzurePlanet

> I have no idea how accurate or realistic my topographies are (if you spot anything wrong with them please let me know!), though I have to say I'm really enjoying making them.


Hi Nate, I like very much your contours but I think you're getting an overall "too high" relief.

You can get an idea of how much your relief is realistic by having a look to the hypsographic curve of Earth's surface. Here you can see that the average land altitude is about 800 m, while the average ocean depth is about -3690 m. Furthermore, terrestrial mountains and oceanic trenches are very steep while their areas are small. This is also a good reason for chosing inhomogeneous levels of height for Earth, i.e. shorter levels (maybe 1/10 mile?) for representing low lands, and larger levels (1 mile or even more) for representing high lands.

Also, I noticed that some roads in your map reach very high altitudes, so far. This is definitely very inefficient.

Finally I observed many endorheic basins in your relief. On Earth these are mainly common in desertic regions.

May I ask you what method are you using to draw your contours?

----------


## vorropohaiah

> Hi Nate, I like very much your contours but I think you're getting an overall "too high" relief.
> 
> You can get an idea of how much your relief is realistic by having a look to the hypsographic curve of Earth's surface. Here you can see that the average land altitude is about 800 m, while the average ocean depth is about -3690 m. Furthermore, terrestrial mountains and oceanic trenches are very steep while their areas are small. This is also a good reason for chosing inhomogeneous levels of height for Earth, i.e. shorter levels (maybe 1/10 mile?) for representing low lands, and larger levels (1 mile or even more) for representing high lands.


Thanks, that's actually one of the things i commented on in my post, that i need to go back and revise a lot of details. it's showing far too steep in most places and i want to get get down to 6 levels at most, if not 5. Would using inhomogeneous levels help?




> Also, I noticed that some roads in your map reach very high altitudes, so far. This is definitely very inefficient.


that's actually something that I hadnt thought of. Some of them would be represented by tunnels in the final map, though there are some roads that are meant to pass through mountain passes, which would of course need to have lower elevations. 




> Finally I observed many endorheic basins in your relief. On Earth these are mainly common in desertic regions.


some of the basins are atramental (bad magic) wastelands. one of the effects in regions where the atramenta is strong is the weakening of stone, causing a lot of sinkholes that over time and large distances lead to such basins. Though that's just a partial explanation - i can easily remove some of them, which helps with the high relief.




> May I ask you what method are you using to draw your contours?


um since i wanted more control over the creation imm just doing them by hand one layer at a time.

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## AzurePlanet

> ...Would using inhomogeneous levels help?...


As a result of using homogeneous levels, contour lines become too much gathered wherever the relief is very steep. So you could get rid of redundant contours by using inhomogeneous levels. That is, less contours wherever the relief is steep.




> ...some of the basins are atramental (bad magic) wastelands...


Oh! I didn't know the magic origin of those basins.  :Surprised:  So, if you need that they've to be there, no reason for removing them.  :Smile: 




> ...um since i wanted more control over the creation imm just doing them by hand one layer at a time.


That's the same method I used for my USN's map. Certainly a great control over the creation, but alas! Very time consuming!  :Wink:

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## vorropohaiah

> That's the same method I used for my USN's map. Certainly a great control over the creation, but alas! Very time consuming!


I feel your pain, but i do enjoy the process, much more than the labelling at least...

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## vorropohaiah

As per AzurePlanet's suggestions, I revised the topographical map:



I still have a few levels left to go and I think I'll need to go back and make some of the mountain areas even shallower than they already are and touch up some areas to make them more interesting. I've been consulting my notes, checking that I don't stick a mountain in a plains area and think I'm pretty good though I still want to go over everything to make sure everything's ok.

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## Pixie

I thought I could share this with you..

It's a colored scheme I use to compare my hand-made relief, done using layers in the same way you are doing it, with a map of Earth (like I did here)


(The arrows are the matches to my height levels, as you can see, it's not evenly spaced - inhomogenous)

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## vorropohaiah

The first map in my Atlas Elyden series is finished! Now to start work on the next...



I spent far longer on the topography than I was hoping to but, I can justify it by saying I was working on a large area that sees the basis for around 6-8 maps largely done, so that will save me a lot of time in the future. 

I updated the colour scheme, and went for a simpler scheme for the water (no wave lines any more), though theres no topography for the water (yet not sure if I want to do that for now, but its easily something that can be done at a later time). I still need to add some spot-heights (and depths) but theyre not essential to the map and can wait for later. I also had to go over the roads and paths to make them fit in with the elevation better (no roads in steep inclines, for instance). 

I removed the greyed out focus area in favour of a washed out near-greyscale background for areas outside the borders of the focus nation (in this case all lands not part of the nation of Korachan).  

Overall, Im quite pleased with the end result and am already on the Pelasgos map, which shouldnt take too long now that I have the base ready. If I can keep up the pace I might try make some encyclopaedia entries for the regions Ive finished.

----------


## AzurePlanet

Excellent result, Nate!  :Very Happy:

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## DanielHasenbos

This map is amazing! More than any other map I have yet seen does this seem like it actually exists! I admire you for the amount of work you put in Elyden and it is good to see a finished product!

-Dan

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## vorropohaiah

> Excellent result, Nate!





> This map is amazing! More than any other map I have yet seen does this seem like it actually exists! I admire you for the amount of work you put in Elyden and it is good to see a finished product!
> 
> -Dan


thanks for the comments, and especially for your comment DanielHasenbos as that's the goal - to make a fantasy world appear as realistic as possible. Luckily all of the hard work on this map made work easier on the next ones. the next map of Pelasgos (region to the E of Korachan on the lower right of the map) is almost done with new labels and icons left to work on. So hopefully updates wont be as far apart as the previous ones. 

I'm hoping for one map a month and, if i have the time a bit of a writeup on my blog about geography, history, culture etc. for those who are interested

----------


## Llannagh

I also tip my hat to your commitment to Elyden, and the amount of work you put into it. I really like this style, it actually reminds me of my old Atlas I used in school!

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## snodsy

Really beautiful map, have some reps.  Like the greyed out area, only comment, is on the outlined font for the greyed out areas, Tar Yodhai for instance, the font is distorted due to the stroke around the letterform, (In Adobe Illustrator you can place the stroke behind the fill, so you don't distort the text, using Attributes, not sure if you can do it in the program your using.), another solution might be to use a bolder face so the letters don't break down.  Great job, looks fantastic, looking forward to the full atlas.

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## vorropohaiah

> on the outlined font for the greyed out areas, Tar Yodhai for instance, the font is distorted due to the stroke around the letter form, (In Adobe Illustrator you can place the stroke behind the fill, so you don't distort the text, using Attributes, not sure if you can do it in the program your using.), another solution might be to use a bolder face so the letters don't break down.  Great job, looks fantastic, looking forward to the full atlas.


that's a good point. I spent quite a while looking for fonts that seemed fitting from the period and dont really want to change them. I havent started using illustrator yet (i worry that with a new tool i'll have to spend too much time learning how to use it, and then going back and changing half the stuff i've done on the maps!), though i can merge all the labels into a smart object and copy it and give an outer glow to the lower layer, keeping the top one sharp.

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## Llannagh

Thanks for crediting me with knowledge of the higher arcanum of illustrator, but that quote is snodsy's!  :Wink:

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## snodsy

Vorropohaiah;

I was not suggesting changing the font, I think you've done a great job with the one your using.  I didn't know what program you were using, so I was just suggesting a possibility if you were using Illustrator.   Another idea, just duplicate the layers of text that have the outline and place behind the other text and then stroke that one, so the one in front retains the letterforms integrity.

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## vorropohaiah

lol, how did that happen?  fixed it!

@snodsy - yeah that's what i was thinking, thanks  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

Heres some WIPs on the next batch of maps. Since I have the topography for all of the Inner sea done (I use the word done loosely as Im already seeing parts Im not happy with on the Korachan map  I need more levels of topography, so Im thinking of 15 total, so I need to make a swatch/palette for the extra levels, but more on that some other time) I can now concentrate on the maps themselves  transplanting details and features from my old Inner Sea Map over to the newer and far more precise atlas maps, which means I'll be able to retire the Inner Sea map (finally!) after many years of trusty service.


So Far Ive been working on Korachans coastal neighbours to the west and east  Azazem and Pelasgos, respectively  as parts of them were already done when I was working on Korachan (though that doesnt mean I skipped half the work  as I each map is a different scale, I have to re-label them, so that text and icon sizes remain a constant size across maps regardless of scale).

*Pelasgos* is farther along and is almost done. You might notice a new road design which represents umbra pipelines. Umbra in Elyden is a magical substance that takes the place of petroleum and oil in the real world. Most technarcane engines run on processed umbra and its a vital resource. I just need to do a bit more tinkering, add a few more labels (like rivers, lakes and geographical features, mostly), before I can call it done.





*Azazem* is a bit more raw, and so far Ive just managed to transplant the old labels from the Inner Sea map to it and found encyclopaedia entries for the region and am in the process of fitting them into the new geography I came up with. I love this part as I get to rediscover old features and details I came up with years ago that I had forgotten about, so its a bit like a historian/archaeologist, piecing history together, expanding upon it and placing it in the world. Azazem is also the first of this new batch of maps to be displayed in landscape mode, due to its orientation.





I mentioned the topography above, and its something Im not 100% happy with. On face value theres nothing wrong with it, though it seems a bit off  particularly the mountainous levels. They seem a bit bare, so I want to revisit the individual levels to make them more intricate and realistic, if that makes any sense. At this point its just polish though and I can live without it for now, though I do want to go back and revisit the levels in the future, maybe once I have some more regions finished, particularly around the Inner Sea.

Speaking of the future, Im looking forward to moveing away from the Inner Sea, and somewhere a bit more virginal. Im thinking of the continent of Bror, in the southeastern hemisphere. Its an interesting shape and the only true island-continent in Elyden, so its something different to the Inner Sea. Either that of the Surrach, which Ive touched upon before, though not explored in much detail so far. 



BROR - in the S-E of the map

So many choices!

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## vorropohaiah

Heres the next WIP on the Atlas Elyden: the Demesne of Azazem; one of the original seven nations assimilated by the empire of Korachan, near 4,000 years ago. It has been a major producer of food throughout its presence in the Korachani pantheon of nations, though its role has changed over time, as overworked farmlands have now been replaced by dross farms and hundreds upon hundreds of square miles of greenhouses that are fed by aquifers. Dross, is an artificial grey slurry made to sustain the working classes of the empire and is made from mosses, grains, recycled food and water, charnel and (in some cases) the bodies of the dead). 



Next on my to-do list are either the region of the Haréshk or the Republic of Almagest. Both are amongst my favourites: Almagest is one of the oldest regions I ever came up with and splintered from the Korachani empire almost 1,000  years ago so has developed its own character. The capital and city of Almagest is one of the largest metropolises in Elyden and is a dystopic version of manhattan, with 2 rivers that are mostly hidden beneath vaulted regraded streets of rusted steel and grey stone. Its a city of multiple levels and gigantic manufactories all connected by walkways and gantries. It was once a thriving centre of astronomy and industry though starvation has seen it diminish of late, with large areas disused or inhabited by degenerates and destitutes. Cagerunning (Elydens version of freestyle running) is common amongst the young. Almagest will likely be one of those maps that will have a small city insert detailing the major city districts  something I've wanted to do for a long time.

The second choice  the Haréshk  is one I have visited before, albeit in a more antique style, so will be fun to revisit in the Atlas style, updating it to match world events.

So which is it to be?  :Smile:

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## Lingon

Yaaay! I just pop back in and the Atlas Elyden has resumed! Happy Lingon  :Very Happy:  It looks fantastic and I love the little snippets of background story you're sharing with the updates. And you're SO GOOD at place names. As for the next one, I'll vote Almagest, sounds utterly amazing…

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## Ilanthar

Well both proposals are very tempting! You've developed a fantastic atlas style.

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## DanielHasenbos

At first I was hoping you were going to do a the Haréshk but after the story behind Almagest my preference goes to that one! And this map loss really cool! I can only see a low quality version on my phone right now but I'm definitely going to check it on my computer later

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HUAWEI Y330-U01 met Tapatalk

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## AzurePlanet

Your dedication in developing your World is really impressive!  :Very Happy: 
Looking forward to seeing your next steps.

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## - Max -

Great stuff again Vorro! Almagest with the city inset would be a nice next step  :Smile:

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## Schwarzkreuz

Excellemt work.

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## vorropohaiah

> Yaaay! I just pop back in and the Atlas Elyden has resumed! Happy Lingon  It looks fantastic and I love the little snippets of background story you're sharing with the updates. And you're SO GOOD at place names. As for the next one, I'll vote Almagest, sounds utterly amazing…


thanks about the names - - do spend some time trying to get them at least looking vaguely similar, and making sure there's some shared prefixes and suffixes in the same regions. Also, regions that were part of the Korachani empire will have many places that end in chan - the Korachani suffix for place (as in habitated)



> Well both proposals are very tempting!





> At first I was hoping you were going to do a the Haréshk but after the story behind Almagest my preference goes to that one!





> Your dedication in developing your World is really impressive! 
> Looking forward to seeing your next steps.





> Great stuff again Vorro! Almagest with the city inset would be a nice next step





> Excellemt work.


Damn, i started work on the Hareshk instead!, but nice to see people are looking forward to Almagest! The Hareshki map shouldnt take too long to get done (well, too long by my standards...) I'm not entirely sure how to depict the city in the Almagest map - most likely as an insert map in a lower corner. I'm thinking of something akin to the below map, with colours more suited to my Atlas palette and the insert maps larger (if that works out to be too small i might just dedicate a whole page to the city map):



If I'm feeling ambitious I might design the map as a pull-out spread (much like that example), so it will be 3 pages wide. Though as I was intending on getting this printed professionally so I'm not sure what my options are for full-page spreads.

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## Lingon

That's an effective method for place names then  :Very Happy:  Looking forward to Almagest indeed, though Hareshk should suffice in the meantime  :Wink:  Insets like in that example look awesome, though it sounds like you have material to let the city take a whole page… Some testing would be the best way to decide, I think  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

well, since its an atlas, its more about the regional maps than city maps, though you've given me an idea to include some of the major cities, also, perhaps in a separate section of the map

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## vorropohaiah

Here's the latest WIP on the Hareshk map. I still need to label the sea routes and add a cartouche to the top-left detailing the different territories (much as the original Hareshk Map listed the shields on the map borders. 



I'm now gonna start work on the topoghraphy for the Almagest map - which will take some time as Almagest is a pretty large area, covering about as much land as the Azazem, Korachan, and Pelasgos maps combined, so will be at quite a different scale, with a lot more land represented.

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## Warlin

Your work allways captivates me. When i think about the amount of work it took you to invest in your encyclopedia, i can't be nothing else but admirative.  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

I'm calling this one done (until I find any mistakes or work on adjacent regions that appear in the peripheries of this one). 



By popular vote the next region will be Almagest, a somewhat larger region...

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## vorropohaiah

so I finally finished the topography on the Almagest map, and I'm ready to finish work on the rivers and other geographical features before i start work on labelling...



After some eagle-eyed comments from a few redditor I've decided to go back and redo the roads on the previous maps, to make them more direct and better fit in with the latitudes. These Atlas maps are never gonna be finished  :Smile: 

note: the graticules and cartouche are not final

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## igoroh

Wow this is just amazing.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

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## Diamond

Vorro, your work stuns me.  Every time.

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## darcycardinal

> so I finally finished the topography on the Almagest map, and I'm ready to finish work on the rivers and other geographical features before i start work on labelling...
> 
> 
> 
> After some eagle-eyed comments from a few redditor I've decided to go back and redo the roads on the previous maps, to make them more direct and better fit in with the latitudes. These Atlas maps are never gonna be finished 
> 
> note: the graticules and cartouche are not final


Simply AMAZING! I can really get a feel for those mountains. I havn't been on reddit before, whats your expereince there?

*Darcy*

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## vorropohaiah

> Simply AMAZING! I can really get a feel for those mountains. I havn't been on reddit before, whats your expereince there?
> 
> *Darcy*


Not too bad. I generally frequent: /r/worldbuilding/ (has some cool writing prompts for worldbuilding), /r/imaginarymaps/, and /r/mapmaking/. there's loads more though i found many of the others (particularly the writing-oriented ones) have vary draconian posting rules, so i just dont bother with them as my posts tend to get removed because i didn't follow rule whatever...  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

This is the end of the index so far on the 4 finished maps. Ignoring the fact that the grid on some is 'letter+number' and others are 'number+letter', that's just under 700 labels in 4 maps, and that's not counting all the labels that fall outside the borders of the nation each map focuses on.  :Smile:  imagine the whole atlas  :Very Happy:

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## DanielHasenbos

Very impressive, and with that I mean all of this atlas, encyclopedia, index project!

 What does the 'pg 8x' 'pg 4x' refer to? Is it the number of pages it appears or the number of the page?

-Dan

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## vorropohaiah

> What does the 'pg 8x' 'pg 4x' refer to? Is it the number of pages it appears or the number of the page?
> 
> -Dan


its a temporary page number. I've only made 4 maps out of an indeterminate amount and they haven't really been edited into the atlas so i dont really know he page numbers, so i used an X so i can easily find/replace once i know the real page number

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## Lingon

Stunning work on the Almagest topography! There's so much cool stuff going on in your world, every region has loads of interesting shapes and features.

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## pjrush

So amazing. Your work is the high-water-mark for the kind of fantasy mapping I most love. Just... thank you for sharing.

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## vorropohaiah

Ok, the Almagest map is finished. To those who remember, no I haven't added the city map, but for you keen-eyed cartographers, the pale sqaure in the top right is the space that that very map will occupy once it's finished, as it's taking a bit longer than I thought it would, mostly because I'm designing it as a full-size map and will then be shrinking it to more adequately fit the space. The finished full-size map will be included in the Atlas as one of a handful of city maps describing important or strategic cities. I havent forgotten my promise!



_The Republic of Almagest has a long history: as an independent land of astronomers and scholars based around the coast of what is now known as the Strait of Almagest; as a territory of the Korachani Empire (under the control of which it spent most of its history, prospering as an industrial centre); and as an independent region freed of its imperial shackles since 3014 RM, after a long period of civil strife with the Motherland. Almagest remains a powerhouse of industry, though waning lands have left its many large cities without food. The capital, Almagest, was once the largest urban area in Elyden, with no less than 6-million bodies calling it home. What remains of that is now a greatly diminished city where starvation and disease run rife. Press-gangers recruit desperate people with promises of glory in the army. The reality is quite different, and most who join up trade one form of hunger and uncertainty for another

Please let me know what you think in the comments, as I'm always open to input._

Remember you can follow me on my blog at www.vorropohaiah.blogspot.com and become a patron at www.patreon.com/elyden for high res files, as well as textless versions, .psd's, stories, and more.

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## vorropohaiah

Ok, so now that Almagest is ready, Im thinking about what to do next. The next logical step is to continue with that general region. Now that Almagest, Azazem, Korachan and Pelasgos are done, All thats left to complete the N-E part of the Inner Sea coast are Skaros (S of Almagest) and Laaskha (S of Skaros and W of Azazem), and Ill have a continuous string of nations stretching from almagest in the N to Pelasgos in the E.



If I also complete the nation of Vaalk (S of Laaskha, across the Inner Sea) that will complete whats known as the Seven Tribes of Korachan - basically the first 7 nations (Pelasgos, Azazem, Laaskha, Skaros, Vaalk, almagest + Korachan) that were taken over by the Archpotentate Malichar in the first decades of the Korachani empires rule, 4 millennia past (of course the Seven Tribes are no longer recognised in the present day  Vaalk is part of The Sarastroan empire, and Almagest gained independence 1,000 years ago, for instance).

Theres a few other regions Im itching to map.

The first is Khamid, which is probably the oldest region in terms of my writing  Khamid was a campaign setting a I had devised for D&D about 12 years ago  an Egyptian-themed setting, heavily influenced by Stephen Sommers the Mummy and the Mummy returns, amongst others. Even in that old iteration it was a region shaped by a massive magical calamity that sundered thousands of square miles, reducing the landmass of Khamid, leaving the entire region flooded and peppered with cliff-sided archipelagos  the remnants of the land. Only a small hooked peninsula remained in the west, enough for the region to not go entirely extinct and to remain, embittered by the glories and hubris of the past. (the setting was basically transported into Elyden as I started fleshing it out many years ago and remained one of my favourite regions since. I have mapped this area before, as part of the Venthir and Tzallrach map, though its never been the focus of a single map before.

Another region Im interested in fleshing out more is Saviud, or the Surrach as it is known in the Korachani empire. Its a vast dry region of independent city-states, each ruled by charismatic individuals  tyrants, otherworlders, sorcerer-kings, theocracies, mystery cults, etc. Each city is unique and tends to control a particular resource, making trade an important aspect of life, with merchant caravans and caravanserais a common sight. Its the setting of the serialised novel Im working on at the moment and deserves to be fleshed out more. The problem is its an even larger area than Almagest was and the the A3 format Im working with seem a bit too constraining. I might work on a larger map and then divide it map in two  Surrach north and Surrach south  for more detail, with the larger one featuring in a generic overview of the region that concentrates more on territories and resources.

Any feedback?

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## tilt

That's just beautiful work.. and seeing that "white" map I'm amazed at the project ahead of you - and by your patience and persistence  :Smile:

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## Lingon

That collage looks so cool, I love that they are all in the same projection so they can be displayed like that!
As for the next one, you once again present a bunch of options that all seem exciting  :Wink:  There's something very appealing to the sound of the first seven nations, but Khamid's geography looks really cool, and Surrach sounds like it would be very interesting (with a crisscrossing network of trade routes, I'm imagining?). I'll cast my vote on Surrach, I think!

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## vorropohaiah

> That's just beautiful work.. and seeing that "white" map I'm amazed at the project ahead of you - and by your patience and persistence


thanks  :Smile:  i made specifically to post, to show the scope of what I'm aiming for. 




> That collage looks so cool, I love that they are all in the same projection so they can be displayed like that!
> As for the next one, you once again present a bunch of options that all seem exciting  There's something very appealing to the sound of the first seven nations, but Khamid's geography looks really cool, and Surrach sounds like it would be very interesting (with a crisscrossing network of trade routes, I'm imagining?). I'll cast my vote on Surrach, I think!


Yeah I was thinking about that, though i need a break from big maps (the almagest map was the largest so far by far and i dont want to follow it up with an even bigger one so soon. So i'll be doing a quicker small map of Skaros and possibly Khamid before tackling the Surrach. They shouldnt take too long as I;ve explored both in maps before so i wont need to come up with too much labels for them

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## vorropohaiah

I'd like some feedback on the next map in the series – Laaskha. It’s mostly done, though still requires lots of labels (though not as many as some other maps as its quite zoomed in, as you can see by the graticule scales).



I’m posting it to get some feedback as there was a lot of dead space in the lower right and I decided to include an inset map (my go-to thing for dead space!) of the western coastline, showing the coastline around 500-years ago. In a nutshell, sea levels have been steadily dwindling over the past centuries, leaving many coastal cities land-locked and coastal salty lakes where once bays were located. I intend on adding a dotted line to the inset to show the present coastline and cities as they were 500-years ago as they are quite different. 

My question is the elevation map in the inset map – of course as the sea level is higher in the inset map, the other topographical elevations should not match up with the other map, but should be higher up, if that makes any sense. I can do this (though it may take some time to go over all the elevations to make them appear higher. But is it worth it, or does it even make sense?

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## Josiah VE

Very nice!

How long does it take you to make one of these maps? You don't hand draw the elevation right?

I don't really have anything to say about the elevation, I'm not exactly sure what you mean and I didn't notice anything wrong.. So.. I dunno.

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## vorropohaiah

> Very nice!
> 
> How long does it take you to make one of these maps? You don't hand draw the elevation right?
> 
> I don't really have anything to say about the elevation, I'm not exactly sure what you mean and I didn't notice anything wrong.. So.. I dunno.


thanks for the comment.

Yes, the elevations are done one layer at a time by hand (well, stylus)  :Smile: 

maybe a simpler way of putting my query - elevations are calculated from sea level - so sea level is 0' and a hundred feet above sea level is 100'. Each line of elevation corresponds with a particular height above sea level, but as the sea level in the inset map is higher than that in the main map, shouldn't the elevations be shifted to correspond with the change in sea level? I think so, but I'm wondering how important most people would consider it.

Hopefully that's clearer!

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## Josiah VE

> thanks for the comment.
> 
> Yes, the elevations are done one layer at a time by hand (well, stylus) 
> 
> maybe a simpler way of putting my query - elevations are calculated from sea level - so sea level is 0' and a hundred feet above sea level is 100'. Each line of elevation corresponds with a particular height above sea level, but as the sea level in the inset map is higher than that in the main map, shouldn't the elevations be shifted to correspond with the change in sea level? I think so, but I'm wondering how important most people would consider it.
> 
> Hopefully that's clearer!


Okay, I think I might understand.. but still, I wouldn't imagine anyone would notice, or care (well, at least I wouldn't, maybe more technical people would).

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## J.Edward

> maybe a simpler way of putting my query - elevations are calculated from sea level - so sea level is 0' and a hundred feet above sea level is 100'. Each line of elevation corresponds with a particular height above sea level, but as the sea level in the inset map is higher than that in the main map, shouldn't the elevations be shifted to correspond with the change in sea level? I think so, but I'm wondering how important most people would consider it.


That's an interesting point... how much sea level change occurred?
I have to say, I've never thought about that issue before with maps.
It makes me wonder what the people of your world would think to do in such a situation.
That seems like the relevant point here, as this atlas is from their perspective, right?
If it is, then perhaps you'd have to answer what they would think to do.

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## vorropohaiah

> That's an interesting point... how much sea level change occurred?
> I have to say, I've never thought about that issue before with maps.
> It makes me wonder what the people of your world would think to do in such a situation.
> That seems like the relevant point here, as this atlas is from their perspective, right?
> If it is, then perhaps you'd have to answer what they would think to do.


damn your logical answer... they're most likely to be sticklers for detail, like myself. so ill have to redo the elevations :p

EDIT: ill be honest with you, I never even thought about the exact amount the sea level has fallen. Due to the nature of the change, its not the same everywhere, though id wager anything from 40' - 100', over 1000 years (though its more accelerated recently) greatly affecting the coastline of low-lying regions (think s - e uk and netherlands)

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## J.Edward

Is the sea level dropping due to glaciation? or some other factor?
Some areas may experience rebound, or rising of the land due to the removal of the weight of water.
You could have a lot of variable factors that would play into different elevation numbers and that could get rather complicated fast.
If the drop in sea level isn't consistent around the coasts then that will really make it complicated to do a new elevation number I would think.

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## vorropohaiah

> Is the sea level dropping due to glaciation? or some other factor?
> Some areas may experience rebound, or rising of the land due to the removal of the weight of water.
> You could have a lot of variable factors that would play into different elevation numbers and that could get rather complicated fast.
> If the drop in sea level isn't consistent around the coasts then that will really make it complicated to do a new elevation number I would think.


with more thought id say the drop is uniform, though in the same way that tides are not uniform across the globe (particularly in my world, where two moons are at play, though those wouldnt be things to represent on a map of this scale. Even I known when to say no...) some areas might have seen a greater change than others due to things like lifting of land, like you said, exacerbating the apparent lowering of sea levels. So I think the best thing is to get another topography map that covers the past coastline so that all changes are uniform. 

there are a few other regions scattered throughout the land that id like to show before/afters off (in particular there's a narrow strait that linked west with east (between the inner sea and the dark sea) that silted up following the lowering of seas, cutting off sea trade, so its a major political and economical change that shaped the region around it) so that should be interesting to do

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## vorropohaiah

WIP on the map continues, and I've settled on a faded green to denote the change in coastlines in the inset map. I've also chosen to ignore the topographical elevations, considering them as a guideline to present locations to facilitate location of specific parts of the map rather than accurate depictions of past elevations (which, even to someone in-world, reading the map, is of little relevance). 

I will add a title to the inset map (Laaskhan coastline 500-years ago), as well as a colour key for the faded green, denoting 'difference in present and 500-yo coastlines, and cities and roads as they appeared 500-years ago (As a contrast to the present map).

The rest of the map is largely done, and just needs some labels finished.

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## vorropohaiah

Laaskha is ready!



Here's the 'mosaic map' as it looks now (not much difference in the grand scheme of things, eh?  :Smile: 



I think I'll be moving east now, onto Varr (east of Pelasgos), before going clockwise around the Inner Sea

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## jshoer

My gosh.

I have only one thing to add to this project: I hope when you finish you do something involving that Indiana Jones travel-by-red-dashed-line thing.

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## vorropohaiah

> My gosh.
> 
> I have only one thing to add to this project: I hope when you finish you do something involving that Indiana Jones travel-by-red-dashed-line thing.


that would be fun! Though I have so many different maps planned for this I doubt I'll ever get round to all of them  :Frown: 



So map #8 is done, and with it the journey around the Inner Sea slowly continues. This was a relatively easy map to do  the south west was ready from previous maps (Korachan and Pelasgos), and the region of Vârr itself was pretty well-thought out in my head. This type of map doesnt do the region justice at all. I have a mood board for this place filled with pictures of grey hills covered in tree-stumps, sprawling open cast mine, industrial pollution, wastelands and other inspiration. Its a bleak place, but I have a morbid fascination with such things, and thats really where Elyden came from. Vârr is probably the epitome of what Elyden and the Korachani empire are.
Some of you might recognise the word Vorropohaiah  so now you know where it comes from and what it means 

More background on the region of Vârr in the finished map thread here

I've actually made some updates to the maps - making the territories outside the focus map paler. Ive also made the roads thicker and clearer added a bit of hue/saturation to make the colours 'pop' a bit more.  I also started applying a greyed-out colour to show areas of corruption, which I felt was missing before. I now have to go back and update the older maps to match this one.

 

I've also updated the mosaic map to include the latest maps. I've also added a grey-out border showing a poster-map I hope to make of the Inner Sea once the individual nations and regions around its coastline are done. At this rate though I don't imagine I'll even start if for another year or two... If I continue at this rate I might manage 16 maps by the end of the year, which is close to circumnavigating the Inner Sea, though not enough to map all the lands that fill out that area.

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## Axelton Crow

Just wanting to leave a message here and say that I really enjoy seeing your work as well as your progress, not to mention your maps are beautiful! I've probably been keeping an eye on your progress here for more than a year now as I stumble through my own world building process. I too hope that someday I am able to start mapping regions in my world as you do, and I also plan on designing several in-world "books" such encyclopedias, religious texts, a bestiary, an atlas, etc. I think this is the only other project I've seen who is taking that route as well, so you're a big inspiration for me. I also enjoy seeing the patchwork mosaic map of your progress of the overall Inner Sea region as well. Good job and keep up the good work!

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## vorropohaiah

> Just wanting to leave a message here and say that I really enjoy seeing your work as well as your progress, not to mention your maps are beautiful! I've probably been keeping an eye on your progress here for more than a year now as I stumble through my own world building process. I too hope that someday I am able to start mapping regions in my world as you do, and I also plan on designing several in-world "books" such encyclopedias, religious texts, a bestiary, an atlas, etc. I think this is the only other project I've seen who is taking that route as well, so you're a big inspiration for me. I also enjoy seeing the patchwork mosaic map of your progress of the overall Inner Sea region as well. Good job and keep up the good work!


thanks a lot, and good luck with your own world. I know it's not an easy process  :Smile:  did you start top down or bottom up, or a mix of the two? are you concentrating on a particular area first or just doing random things as inspiration strikes (like me)?

in the meantime, here's a quick snip of what I;m working on at the moment. I;m starting toget a bit sick of topograohy.. :p
(and before anyone asks, there's no secret method to the topography. its done one layer at a time with the lasso and a layer mask...

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## vorropohaiah

I thought Id share what Im working on at the moment  two maps for the Inner Sea. I spent quite a while on the topography of the first  Hololach  and Im very happy with it. I just started labeling the map and it shouldnt be too long now. 



The second map is Vaalk, the first map Im working on in the south of the Inner Sea with a warmer climate. The topography is ready though as its quite a low region it looks quite boring here, especially sans labels. Hopefully itll look better once its done.

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## J.Edward

The coast on Hololach's south looks fantastic. All the lakes and inlets - really nice.  :Smile: 
I always enjoy seeing progress on Elyden.

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## vorropohaiah

> The coast on Hololach's south looks fantastic. All the lakes and inlets - really nice. 
> I always enjoy seeing progress on Elyden.


well, after what feels like months it's done. I dont want to look at topography or labels for a while now  :Smile: 

more on the map on the finished map thread [url=https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=34529&p=305660#post305660]here[/urll], including some regional history



So the Inner Sea mosaic now looks something like the below (so still a long way to go!) Not sure what I'll work on next: probably Vaalk, to the south of Laaskha. the topography is done, and it shouldn't have as many labels as its a dryer region, so shouldn't take too long

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## vorropohaiah

So, quickly on the heels of the Hololach Map, I've finished the next map in the series. You can see the full thread here

In the meantime I'm taking the opportunity to talk about what I plan on doing

These maps I've been posting are part of an in-world atlas, known as the Atlas Elyden, which is the fifth volume in the so-called Encyclopaedia Elyden, which is a 5-volume book detailing, in meticulous effort, the world of Elyden, which I have been working on for about 10-years now. 

Vol 1 is the traditional encyclopaedia (think Encyclopaedia Britannica). Currently 400,00 words - this is the most comprehensive volume so far.Vol 2 is the natural encyclopaedia, detailing things like physical characteristics (astronomy, geology, continents, climate, flora and fauna, and various miscellania. Currently 80,000 words - certain parts are finished whilst others are little more than place-holders so far.Vol 3 is the travelogue, detailing both extant and extinct nations, city-states and major cities. I imagine this to be like the regional portion of an RPG campaign setting. Currently 200,000 words. Many regions are fully-fleshed out, though most are still just a title and little else.Vol 4 is the mystical book, detailing religions, mythologies, creation stories, and magic. currently 40,000 words - apart from the creation myths and generic magical info, this book needs the most fleshing out by far, though it would be the smallest book once completed, anyway.Vol 5 is the Atlas, containing all sorts of maps in the style of the atlas maps ive been doing so far, including different scale maps, so it will eventually feature cities, continents, world maps, featuring different things, like climate, trade, politics, etc. Iv'e barely scratched the surface of this book so far, and only really have these 10-maps finished, out of possibly hundreds... 



The above map shows just one region (equivalent to the Mediterranean in our world) and all the maps I've done so far, which are centered around it. My short-term goal for the project is to flesh out the so-called _Inner Sea_ region, with an eye towards a large map (one at A3 size for the atlas, which is the same size as the ones I've been producing so far; and another at A1 for a poster). The A1 map would not just be a scaled up version of the A3 one, but will be redone from scratch as the A3 map will (due to size constraints) have a lot less labels than the maps I've made so far, and it's not just a matter of stitching together the finished maps as they're all different scales an the map elements are all different sizes, as are the labels. So it will only feature major cities and features. The highlighted area in the map above shows the area that will be covered by the Inner Sea map (at both scales)

Also, my patreon is slowly gaining patrons and one of the goals I set for myself once I reach a certain threshold is to create a globe of the world. That will be a large effort that will take up precious time from the Atlas Elyden project, but it's something that I've wanted to do for a very long time now. I have my eye on some materials and techniques needed for it, though it's still something that's on the backburner. for mow  :Smile: 

So that's that  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

So I've finished work on the next region - technically 2 regions - in the Atlas project. I'm working on the encyclopaedia entry for the region and will polish it up and post it here over the coming days (anyone who plays pen and paper RPGs and has read a campaign sourcebook will be familiar with the general format of the entry). I have a few commissions lined up so it will probably be a while until I get round to getting another map posted.



more details on the map (including some history) can be found on the finished map thread here

here's the mosaic of the region, which is slowly starting to look like a real map. I'm really looking forward to getting all these regions done so that I can start work on the Large Inner Sea map.

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## hireshmontvellos

1. These maps are awesome
2. You've done over 700,000 words of background? That's amazing.

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## Weery

Absolutely incredible. Really inspirational work and thanks so much for posting and giving insights into how you work at various stages.

Much appreciated,
Weery  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

> 1. These maps are awesome
> 2. You've done over 700,000 words of background? That's amazing.


yeah that's about it. every map adds about 5,000 in volume 1 (more in the case of relatively new regions), the other volumes are a lot slower to update and I only add entries sporadically as i come up with more things (new alcohols, drugs, poisons, fairytales etc. 




> Absolutely incredible. Really inspirational work and thanks so much for posting and giving insights into how you work at various stages.
> 
> Much appreciated,
> Weery


thanks  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

The next region of the Inner Sea is done - Jurras.

I'm now going to start work on a wasteland region in the N-E of the collage map, known as Astudan. I;m working on the topography at the moment,though its relatively flat, so it shouldn't take too long. 

The collage map now looks like this:

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## vorropohaiah

I'm busy working on the topographical maps. here's a stitch of the three maps I'm working on at the moment. It's unfinished and there's some parts where they don't match up perfectly (old versions next to more recent versions).



By popular demand, I'm attaching a PDF with a style guide to how I create my Atlas Elyden maps.  

This isn't a full-out tutorial, though more of a guide to how I create the maps, so a working knowledge of how Photoshop and projected maps work is assumed. I don't go into details like which exact colours are used and so on as I expect anyone wanting to emulate the style to use their own colours. It's no fun copying things word-for-word  :Smile: 

Hope you enjoy, and as always, you can check out my Patreon for more images and details of the world. Patrons get exclusive content, like PSDs and high-res JPGs of the maps, as well as textless versions for use in your own work. A more detailed version of this tutorial should be up for patrons later on in the month.

#atlaselyden #fantasycartography

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## vorropohaiah

map #13 - the Desolation of Astudan is now finished and in its creation i came up with a quick way of making 'topography' to add more detail to the maps:



I just created a grey soft light layer with a bevel/emboss and added a mask with black/white noise, clouds and difference clouds, repeating until i got something I was happy with. its quick, imprecise and completely arbitrary, though i think it looks nice and adds a bit of detail to otherwise empty areas. I can manipulate the mask by painting into it to make regions that are particularly flat or rugged that cant be represented by the gradient topography.

Here's the mosaic map as it stands now:

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## vorropohaiah

here's an updated version of the mosaic map that I keep. I've added the Inner Sea map that I'm currently working on as a background:

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## zhar2

AMAZING! im currently working ona similar project

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## JasonWrong

This is incredible work, truly.

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## vorropohaiah

> This is incredible work, truly.


thanks  :Smile: 




> AMAZING! im currently working on a similar project


link please  :Smile:

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## zhar2

All unpublished, most of it is on my hard drive

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## vorropohaiah

shame. I'm sure everyone here would love to see  :Smile:

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## TigerStripedDog

This is the first time I have seen a style like this for a fantasy map. Have you considered making an interractive digital rendering that would allow the user to click on the smaller sections to enlarge them?  Well done!

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## vorropohaiah

> This is the first time I have seen a style like this for a fantasy map. Have you considered making an interractive digital rendering that would allow the user to click on the smaller sections to enlarge them?  Well done!


Yeah on thing id love to do is an interactive online map where you can click on regions for the zoomed in maps, or click on a place name to get a pop-up of the encyclopedia entry. Shame im not good at those things. It is something I;ve thought of doing. though, once I have more presentable written material and enough finished maps

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## Robulous

I've been experimenting with various options for interactive mapping, I haven't had great success so I'd be interesting to see what other people suggest. I've tried Leaflet but always seem to get into a mess with the composite images.

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## vorropohaiah

> I've been experimenting with various options for interactive mapping, I haven't had great success so I'd be interesting to see what other people suggest. I've tried Leaflet but always seem to get into a mess with the composite images.


that looks promising though unfortunately, for me, seems to require coding

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## Robulous

Only a little, mostly it requires copying and pasting the HTML and a bit of quite simple hand coding, which is only HTML, quite simple. The complex part for me is slicing a big image into all the small images, it always messes up for me somehow.

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## vorropohaiah

that sounds like the easy part to me   :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

Hi All, to those of you interested in my world I'm doing an AMA (ask me anything) on reddit to help me out with worldbuilding - I've realised there's a lot of aspects of the world that I might have overlooked unintentionally and sometimes questions by third parties might help uncover those 'loophools' 

I'd be really grateful if anyone who uses reddit could take the time to ask something, no matter how trivial as it might get my creative juices flowing! thanks

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## Robulous

What's an AMA?  :Smile: 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

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## vorropohaiah

> What's an AMA? 
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Ask Me Anything. I should have specified  :Smile: 

If you want to ask me anything about my world, you can do it there (please do!)

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## vorropohaiah

Here's a sneak peak of the next map in the Atlas Elyden series - the Secular Republic of Parthis, one of the major powers in the Inner Sea. It's the largest individual area I've worked on so far, larger even than my map of the Republic of Almagest and is taking a while to get finished. 



This region depicts a fold mountain range inspired by the mountains of Pakistan and would realistically be the result of two plates colliding with each other, giving an indication to the region' history. Hopefully I'll manage to get the map done by the end of the month (LOTS of labels and rivers to do on this one as it's so big)

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## Soixante

Super awesome wip. How's it coming along vorro?

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## vorropohaiah

> Super awesome wip. How's it coming along vorro?


thanks! very slowly. I've been sick most of the month and I'm finishing off a pending commission. I;ve only now started work on the labels these past few days,so it's a while yet... I;ve also been writing a lot of background on the world - a treatise on magic is the most recent one. If you're interested in you can check out the link in my signature

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## vorropohaiah

Elyden has been dormant for far too long, damn real life getting in the way of worldbuilding!

I've just finished a new map - Parthis - and have updated the composite map below. The newest map took me ages to get done. The labeling (especially in the middle) is very tight and not very pretty to look at, admittedly, and I have reservations about the topography now that I look at it (it seems too uniform with green around the outside and yellow in the middle. I'm thinking I want to mix it up a bit and increase the elevation in areas. Purely cosmetic changes and no justification in-world, but sometimes that's how I work!) 



You can see how large the new region is, when compared with others. So now I'd like to move on to something different - a different area, different terrain and culture. I'm going to be visiting Ahrishen, a beauteous free land of of lakes, rivers, forests and steep bordering mountains. The rivers and wetlands will be a challenge to do, and I'm expecting this map to have more lakes and rivers than the rest combined, meaning lots of labels! (yay!). 

Hopefully this map won't take as long to do as the last one.

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## vorropohaiah

Here's a W.I.P of the region I'm working on at the moment, Ahrishen. Long work hours for the past few weeks are preventing me from getting much work done though it's mostly just labelling at this point. Lots and lots of labelling.

Ahrishen is a very flat region, prone to flooding in summer (following snowmelt) and winter (wet season with lots of rain). many rivers and lakes in the area, surrounded by relatively flat land, flood. Most well-established settlements near such areas are either built on stilts or are positioned to be at the edge of the lake when its flooded.

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## vorropohaiah

Here's an updated Inner Sea collage map to show what's done and what's still left to do to get the Inner Sea region finished:



The next region I'll be working on is in the lower right of the map, and here's the blurb for that particular region:

_Perhaps exemplifying the entropy of Elyden more than anywhere else in the Inner Sea, the history of the regions of Arkos, Ba’ath, Suma’ya and Zion (collectively known as the Faded States) are, as befits their geography and cultural similarities, intertwined. They are regions whose past was shaped by Korachani expansionism and whose futures are bleak. Invaded relatively early in the Korachani empire’s history they became at first colonies and and then part of the empire itself, with immigrants and caretaker patricians lording it over the natives, who in many cases became second-class citizens, and the lands themselves were valued only for the resources that could be exploited. 

In particular, the regions of Ba’ath and Zion became prized for their reserves of raw umbra, which was essential to the rise of Technarcana in the region and instrumental in the growing power of the Korachani empire. As is so often the case, when those resources waned to the point that large scale extraction was no-longer profitable, Korachan abandoned the region to the Domnitors (regional care-takers) in 2732, handing it over to Sathep the Risen of Sarastro in 3103 RM, alongside Zion. This became known as the Sarastroan Sanction. 

Starting in 3097 RM the political situation in Ba’ath had grown out of control, with anyone seen to be a threat to the administration exiled to the south of Ba’ath, which by that had become an Atramentally-tainted wasteland with little resources. This continued well into the start of Sarastroan rule, and over the next centuries the area became a war-torn region of opposing warlords and tyrants. By 3311 the city of Suma’ya had risen above the others, with other cities subjugated beneath its banner. Sarastro had no need of its lands and allowed the fledgling state to fester. Raiding neighbouring territories for slaves and resources it is little more than a localised threat and of little importance to the world without.  

Arkos, despite being a relatively small land, had a rich history following failed Korachani attempts at conquest. It was originally conquered by prototype of what would later become the feared Steel Legionnaires - elite vat-born clones that formed the vanguard of Korachani armies - one regiment of which was left behind to maintain the region during the Korachani withdrawal. The descendants of these caretakers would eventually become a ruling caste, known as the Arkos, their imposing statures and military prowess making them natural leaders to a region that was forever fending off barbarian attacks from the south. Though predation from Sarastro would ultimately lead to the region’s downfall. After periods of Sarastroan subjugation, the last of the descendants of the Arkos killed himself in shame 3822 RM, leaving the ruin of its once-great capital Arkos empty, guarded by a crumbling colossus that echoed a golden age that had passed into memory centuries past._ 

__________________________________________

I'm also busy working on an index for the Atlas Elyden Project, meticulously cataloguing the locations depicted in all the maps so far, using the letter/number grids (I knew those grids would come in useful!) on the border of the maps. It's slow work, though I'm getting there, and here's the proof:



The 'pages' are placeholders until I finish ALL the maps and decide on how to organise them in the document itself, at which point ill replace them with page numbers and redo the column widths

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## kacey

It's amazing the amount of time you've dedicated to this project, and you're maps as always look great, you're really someone to look up to.

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## Voolf

I finally found time to look more closely to your project and i must say - IT IS AWESOME.
I love every single map you post here. I would like to do something simillar one day. Is all the topography made from scratch? Or do you use some software to help you with that?
It looks like simple colours filled in circles, but all together makes a wonder.

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## Pixie

Wow, Vorro, this is coming out awesome. Your "global" map is a cartographic wonder and I promise you right now that I'll nominate, vote and lobby for that one to be *map of the year* when you finish it.  :Very Happy: 

I am a serious follower of your work, both for the quality and originality, but also because in some ways it is just as absurdly ambitious as my own con-world-making. But you humble me all the time, so the comparison is nothing more than a source of inspiration for me. On this note, I am going to steal your idea of a simple excel reference table with all the words used in the maps - it's a nice and simple one.
Which reminds me... I don't know how you are writing your notes on the world, but I recently downloaded and tried Zim Desktop Wiki, which I really recommend. It's simple software and let's you write a wikipedia style collection of notes, which almost automatically manages links across the articles. Do you have any particular technique/software for this?

Cheers!

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## vorropohaiah

> It's amazing the amount of time you've dedicated to this project, and you're maps as always look great, you're really someone to look up to.


Thanks, very flattering  :Smile: 




> I finally found time to look more closely to your project and i must say - IT IS AWESOME.
> I love every single map you post here. I would like to do something simillar one day. Is all the topography made from scratch? Or do you use some software to help you with that?
> It looks like simple colours filled in circles, but all together makes a wonder.


yes, the topography is done from scratch. I'm hard at work on the next map, working on the topography. I'm thinking about experimenting with levels, clouds and gradients to make the process quicker, though I'm not convinced I can replicate the effects I want 




> Wow, Vorro, this is coming out awesome. Your "global" map is a cartographic wonder and I promise you right now that I'll nominate, vote and lobby for that one to be *map of the year* when you finish it.


Thanks  :Very Happy:  I was trying HARD to get it done by the end of last year, though the topography got to me in the end! Once I realised I wouldn't manage, I slowed down to concentrate on the individual maps, though I;m pretty confident I'll get it done by the end of this year - it's my goal for this year!




> I am a serious follower of your work, both for the quality and originality, but also because in some ways it is just as absurdly ambitious as my own con-world-making. But you humble me all the time, so the comparison is nothing more than a source of inspiration for me. On this note, I am going to steal your idea of a simple excel reference table with all the words used in the maps - it's a nice and simple one.
> Which reminds me... I don't know how you are writing your notes on the world, but I recently downloaded and tried Zim Desktop Wiki, which I really recommend. It's simple software and let's you write a wikipedia style collection of notes, which almost automatically manages links across the articles. Do you have any particular technique/software for this?


That's really interesting. I've toyed with starting a Wiki (mostly for myself, though it would be open to anyone whose interested) Though just the prospect of hyperlinking 40,000+ encyclopedia entries, articles and essays puts me off! 

I use a mix of *google keep* - i use this for jotting down quick ideas on my mobile in 'shorthand' when I'm out and about. when I get enough notes I expand on them and paste them into the google docs (below) 
*google docs* - I have loads of different google docs with specific subjects where I keep rough notes and ideas. I have a doc for places, another for people, another for inventions, events, ideas etc.
*word docs* - I have 5 nicely-formatted docs I call the _Encyclopaedia Elyden_ volume 1 is like your typical Encylopedia Brittanica; volume 2 is a natural history with things like geography, continents, climate, flora and fauna, and various miscellania; volume 3 is a travellogue (think of a D&D campaiign setting book describing all the nations); volume 4 is the myths, religions, magic and technology; and volume  is the Atlas Elyden!

Does Zim Desktop give you the ability to easily convert the wiki to an online format? That would be useful

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## Pixie

> Does Zim Desktop give you the ability to easily convert the wiki to an online format? That would be useful


It does, html, mhtml, latex and others.

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## vorropohaiah

I spent much of the day messing around with Google Earth  and QGIS, trying to change the projection of my Atlas Maps from Equidistant Conic to Equirectangular, so that I can wrap them around the below Google Earth map. 

More importantly, I've needed a 'quick' way to convert the maps to Equirectangular, which will be invaluable later on when I need to do larger regional maps in various projections for the atlas. I say 'quick' - it's not a very speedy process changing the projection in QGIS, though its a lot simpler and more precise than doing it by hand on photoshop (Equidistant Conic is a horrid projection to convert out of).

I plan on repeating the process in more detail once I've done more maps, dividing the process into various layers - roads, cities, territories, etc. I'm actually really excited by this process, to the point that it's stalled my next map (you can see it in the lower right - a region with a vertical gulf dividing it)!

Many thanks to /r/tsseepra on reddit for the help with QGIS (which I'd never used until today  :Smile:

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## JeskaGrace

Just wanted to say that your maps are absolutely incredible, and the amount of detail is simply amazing.
The style (and the professional-level quality) remind me of an atlas I used to pour over as a kid.
The scope of your project is mind-boggling, but inspiring. Keep up the good work  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

> Just wanted to say that your maps are absolutely incredible, and the amount of detail is simply amazing.
> The style (and the professional-level quality) remind me of an atlas I used to pour over as a kid.
> The scope of your project is mind-boggling, but inspiring. Keep up the good work


Thanks  :Smile:  It means a lot hearing that as it's really the feel I've been going for.

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## Pixie

Equiretangular basemap and overlays at Google Earth are very good resources vorro, I'm sure you will consider it's time well spend. By the way, I don't know what version of Google Earth you use, but the Pro version became free not long ago.

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## vorropohaiah

> Equiretangular basemap and overlays at Google Earth are very good resources vorro, I'm sure you will consider it's time well spend. By the way, I don't know what version of Google Earth you use, but the Pro version became free not long ago.


just got it yesterday though haven't had much time to check out what's different to the normal version  :Smile:

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## vorropohaiah

so here's an update on the collage map and a look at the latest map in the series: _the Fading States_.

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## Vigilus

I really have a totally platonic professional crush on your work.  Thanks for posting that stuff about the google maps pro, helping me immensely on my project.

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## vorropohaiah

> I really have a totally platonic professional crush on your work.  Thanks for posting that stuff about the google maps pro, helping me immensely on my project.


Thanks! yeah I thought someone might find the google earth thing useful

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## vorropohaiah

Heres the key to the atlas maps Im working on. Its not final, though its a polished version of what Ive been using when working on  my maps so thought Id post it here, hopefully making things easier for those of you who are following my work (thanks!).

Its pretty-much self-explanatory, detailing things like elevation, hydrography, geography, settlement sizes and typography, as well as the resource and industry symbols Ive been using so far.  

Id like your opinions on the key in general, and the resource and industry symbols in particular - are they intuitive-enough? Can you make out what theyre meant to represent without having to look at the key? Are there any in particular that dont make sense? Keep in mind some of them represent fantastical animals that arent immediately recognizable (like indriks and mantras).

Thanks for your time. 

Note: the empty space in the bottom right is reserved for more resource symbols as I come up with them as well as details pertinent to city-scale maps once I get round to making them.

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## Voolf

Wow there is a lot more than i noticed on the map and you also added the sea level, so i guess you will update every map with it ?

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## kacey

It looks pretty good to me, I like the symbols you've come up with, and for the most part they seem to make sense. 

A few things I noticed though... Baking, bird keeping, and book making seem to be mixed up, and the symbols for Waterfall and dam are identical, other then that it looks very professional and suits the rest of the project.

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## vorropohaiah

> Wow there is a lot more than i noticed on the map and you also added the sea level, so i guess you will update every map with it ?


unfortunately, yes, there's a LOT that I need to go back and revisit, with the process becoming a lot more involved with the earlier maps. All the heights need to be updated and I need to add in the sea levels too...




> It looks pretty good to me, I like the symbols you've come up with, and for the most part they seem to make sense. 
> 
> A few things I noticed though... Baking, bird keeping, and book making seem to be mixed up, and the symbols for Waterfall and dam are identical, other then that it looks very professional and suits the rest of the project.


thanks, I spotted the mistake with the baking/birds/books after posting an updated the main file. 

the symbols for the dam and waterfall are different colours. maybe theyre not different enough? I could change to a single line for one and a double line for the other. thanks for pointing that out.

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## Voolf

I can only applause you and wish you can manage to do it all. This is gonna be epic atlas. One that i am waiting to see in full glory.

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## vorropohaiah

> I can only applause you and wish you can manage to do it all. This is gonna be epic atlas. One that i am waiting to see in full glory.


Thanks. I'm slowly working my way around the Inner Sea, and I'm really hoping to get it done by the end of the year. I think I'll work on the Old Forest (empty area in the middle of the top right quarter of the collage map) next and then move directly to the Inner Sea map after that

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## vorropohaiah

here's an update featuring the latest map in the series _Karakhas and Khuraur_

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## Svein007

> Heres the key to the atlas maps Im working on. Its not final, though its a polished version of what Ive been using when working on  my maps so thought Id post it here, hopefully making things easier for those of you who are following my work (thanks!).
> 
> Its pretty-much self-explanatory, detailing things like elevation, hydrography, geography, settlement sizes and typography, as well as the resource and industry symbols Ive been using so far.  
> 
> Id like your opinions on the key in general, and the resource and industry symbols in particular - are they intuitive-enough? Can you make out what theyre meant to represent without having to look at the key? Are there any in particular that dont make sense? Keep in mind some of them represent fantastical animals that arent immediately recognizable (like indriks and mantras).
> 
> Thanks for your time. 
> 
> Note: the empty space in the bottom right is reserved for more resource symbols as I come up with them as well as details pertinent to city-scale maps once I get round to making them.
> ...


Very impressive, how refined you have made this world.  I hope to see the final atlas

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## vorropohaiah

> Very impressive, how refined you have made this world.  I hope to see the final atlas


thanks  :Smile:  so do I!

So map #21 is done, which brings me another step closer to finishing the Inner Sea:

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## ThomasR

Always good to see a new one  :Wink:

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## Pixie

> which brings me another step closer to finishing the Inner Sea:


That's 2? 3? steps to go...  :Very Happy:  

Congrats on getting another one done! I'm amazed with your productivity and endurance!

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## vorropohaiah

> Always good to see a new one


thanks  :Smile: 




> That's 2? 3? steps to go...  
> 
> Congrats on getting another one done! I'm amazed with your productivity and endurance!


unfortunately still about 8 - 9 maps until the whole area is mapped. then i can start work on the A1 poster map, in the same style, though i might skip the smaller maps of some of these and jump right in to the large one and then do them once it's done. I really want to get it done by the end of the year. I also lost the last few months work on some of the topography on the large map, so i have to go back and redo them...

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## vorropohaiah

So I've finally started working on the full size map. I started working withan A1 size, though found it too small, so switched A0 (841 x 1189 mm [13244 x 18724 px]). I spent most of the day compositing my two continent maps (north and south) and making sure that everything is to scale and aligned correctly. I can tell you - waiting for my computer to process the transform function on 5 layers of that size simultaneously is so frustrating!

It almost looks ready, but I need to completely redo the labels and all the iconography as they're composites from the individual maps and are to different scales and are all merged and rasters, so now I begin the long hard slog of redoing all those labels...  

a lot of the map - particularly the west and south west of the map - is not yet done so I'll be making it from scratch directly on this map (and then when it's time to make the smaller regional maps I'll use the work here as a template, which is the opposite of how I've been working so far


Edit: the image is so big I've had to split it in 4 and upload it as separate images.

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## Mouse

Oh... my... goodness!

That's just massive - I mean superb.  Well, maybe I mean massively superb  :Very Happy:

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## Voolf

Absolutely amaizing.

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## Naima

> So I've finally started working on the full size map. I started working withan A1 size, though found it too small, so switched A0 (841 x 1189 mm [13244 x 18724 px]). I spent most of the day compositing my two continent maps (north and south) and making sure that everything is to scale and aligned correctly. I can tell you - waiting for my computer to process the transform function on 5 layers of that size simultaneously is so frustrating!
> 
> It almost looks ready, but I need to completely redo the labels and all the iconography as they're composites from the individual maps and are to different scales and are all merged and rasters, so now I begin the long hard slog of redoing all those labels...  
> 
> a lot of the map - particularly the west and south west of the map - is not yet done so I'll be making it from scratch directly on this map (and then when it's time to make the smaller regional maps I'll use the work here as a template, which is the opposite of how I've been working so far
> 
> 
> Edit: the image is so big I've had to split it in 4 and upload it as separate images. 
> 
> ...


This 
IS
SUPER.

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## DanielHasenbos

I literally don't know what to say. This is simply amazing!

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## Falconius

Incredible.

I was looking at this thread the other day when you posted your Mharokk map, mostly to find out how you did your graticule lines, and I remember thinking then, "I really hope you have this stuff backed up off site."  It's too fantastic and big to loose.

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## vorropohaiah

> Oh... my... goodness!
> That's just massive - I mean superb.  Well, maybe I mean massively superb





> Absolutely amaizing.





> This 
> IS
> SUPER.





> I literally don't know what to say. This is simply amazing!





> Incredible.
> 
> wow thanks  
> 
> I was looking at this thread the other day when you posted your Mharokk map, mostly to find out how you did your graticule lines, and I remember thinking then, "I really hope you have this stuff backed up off site."  It's too fantastic and big to loose.


well, they're saved on Google Drive, which should be ok. Though I have deleted files by mistake and had to retrieve old versions - this happened recently with the southern continent map and I had to revert to a version that was a few weeks old. Luckily I hadn't done much work on it in those few weeks but it was still frustrating.

The worst was with the map of the Hareshk, which I accidentally flattened with no back up file. So I need to go back sometime to redo it from scratch  :Frown:

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## Acrotiger

I love what you did with your mountains! Looks some old Julia fractals. Well-done!

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## vorropohaiah

> I love what you did with your mountains! Looks some old Julia fractals. Well-done!


Well i think fractals are pretty common in nature (there's a fish that makes a nest in the sand that really reminds me of those) and they look damned cool!

I've gone and updated some of the older maps, including the first one (Korachan) and the Hareshk, the latter of which was accidentally flattened months ago and I never had the guts to go back and redo it. So now that I'm winding down with the individual Atlas maps and had more time on my hands I decided to go back and revisit them, updating them to the newer style and adding elements that I hadn't included in the early maps.

 

Here's the latest map - #24 - detailing Tartak. though I'm winding down with the atlas maps there's still some regions I'm looking forward to doing - of course there's the regions that will be depicted on the poster map anyway, so it's an easy job to get those resized to A3, plus there's a few regions I've been wanting to get done for ages that aren't in the Inner Sea area, so I've been putting them off. One is the first region I ever wrote about about 12 years ago (Temuja), another is one that has a big role to play in ancient history (Khamid). both are real-world analogues - representing mongolia and egypt, respectively.

Work is proceeding slowly on the larger poster map, mostly because I get border adding all the dots and icons. so far ive added about 500 city markers and that's probably around 25% of the total I need to do...  :Surprised:

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## vorropohaiah

here's the updated collage map, taking into account the most recent maps. I'm busy adding the new labels to the Inner Sea map... So many labels  :Smile:

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## ChickPea

Amazing! It's really coming together.  :Smile:

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## Voolf

It is... 
And it is looking fabulous !

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## Will Phillips

I am simply in awe, vorropohaiah, of the care and detail and scope of this project - and your commitment to putting in the work to get it this far. Kudos to you, man. Kudos.

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## Gallien

I hope one day (probably no less than 10 years from now) I will be able to make something at least distantly similar to this masterpiece!

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## vorropohaiah

Thanks for the comments everyone! they're keeping me sane while I continue working on the large map. It's tedious work

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## selden

Sorry, an English usage quibble, but one important to artists: a "collage" is a piece of artwork made from several different types of materials. This is a "montage", which is the combination of several different pictures into one; and a very good one, at that!

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## HadrianVI

That looks amazing!

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## vorropohaiah

> Sorry, an English usage quibble, but one important to artists: a "collage" is a piece of artwork made from several different types of materials. This is a "montage", which is the combination of several different pictures into one; and a very good one, at that!


you're right. I originally referred to that map as a mosaic, which is even worse! I just thought of something quickly before saving it and just stuck with that for now. 




> That looks amazing!


thanks! 


I've been making slow progress on the poster map as I continue finishing regional maps to finish off the entire area. I've been tracing over the past roads and icons, making slight changes to take into account the size of the map (roads are wider than the regional maps as otherwise they would get lost amid the map). I've decided to be frugal with labels, restricting myself to things like nation names and capitals, seas, major geographical features, important cities and similar things, so most of the smaller towns, whilst having icons, wont be named - there's just no room!

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## vorropohaiah

Here's the 3 latest maps collected here in the Atlas thread:

  

work on the large poster map continues slowly - its a bitch getting all those icons and roads done, but I think I'm getting close to the halfway mark now. Then comes the much harder task of labelling. There's no way I can fit all the labels on the map so ill likely omit the smaller settlements where space doesn't permit

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## - JO -

That's an insane amount of work ! But I'm very glad to see the whole map, it's a fascinating place, with so much different and interesting geography ! you want to visit all of them ! 
So, Congratulations for the work done, and I wish you a lot of courage for all the work you want to add to this huge and beautiful atlas !

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## Mouse

I still have no idea how you do this.  Its amazing  :Smile: 

That big map is just spectacular!

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## vorropohaiah

> I still have no idea how you do this.  Its amazing 
> 
> That big map is just spectacular!





> That's an insane amount of work ! But I'm very glad to see the whole map, it's a fascinating place, with so much different and interesting geography ! you want to visit all of them ! 
> So, Congratulations for the work done, and I wish you a lot of courage for all the work you want to add to this huge and beautiful atlas !


Thanks  :Smile:  I;m really hoping to to get this done by the end of the year so i have something worth of competing with the great map of the year entries for 2017

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## Pixie

The thing Vorro, is that you have gone so far by now than nobody expects you to stop before completion.. basically, there's that, right. You probably feel the same. 
Well, yeah, sure, but I still feel absolutely amazed everytime you produce another one! Because it breathes an extraordinary amount of devotion - I'll repeat it slowly...

I n s p i r a t i o n a l
a n d
E x t r a o r d i n a r y 
D e v o t i o n !

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## vorropohaiah

> The thing Vorro, is that you have gone so far by now than nobody expects you to stop before completion.. basically, there's that, right. You probably feel the same. 
> Well, yeah, sure, but I still feel absolutely amazed everytime you produce another one! Because it breathes an extraordinary amount of devotion - I'll repeat it slowly...
> 
> I n s p i r a t i o n a l
> a n d
> E x t r a o r d i n a r y 
> D e v o t i o n !


thanks  :Very Happy:  thats going on my sig  :Wink:

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## UNoahGuy

> Here's the 3 latest maps collected here in the Atlas thread:
> 
> Attachment 99574 Attachment 99575 Attachment 99576
> 
> work on the large poster map continues slowly - its a bitch getting all those icons and roads done, but I think I'm getting close to the halfway mark now. Then comes the much harder task of labelling. There's no way I can fit all the labels on the map so ill likely omit the smaller settlements where space doesn't permit


Hey, you are the reason why I am so interested in creating my own maps. I just wanted to say, I want to be the first person to buy your Atlas of Elyden when you finish it. This is the standard of gold for custom maps.

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## Diamond

> I just wanted to say, I want to be the first person to buy your Atlas of Elyden when you finish it.


You gotta fight me for it.   :Very Happy:

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## Mouse

Oh no D - not another kneecapped newbie!  :Shocked:   :Razz:

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## vorropohaiah

might need to start a mailing list at this rate  :Very Happy:

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## vorropohaiah

I need your help guys! 

I'm working on the next map, which is almost finished, and I had a lot of dead space in the corners so i shifted things round to make a big space in the lower left. When there's enough room I like to add inset maps that details something particular about the region depicted in the map. In this case, there's a huge vertical cave-system that I thought would make a cool map, but I;m struggling to find a style that fits in with the style already established for these maps. 

Here's what I have so far:



I'm not at all happy with the results: i think they're jarring and don't fit in with the style of the rest of the map, and I'm not sure what else I can do. I've sine edited the black negative space of the caves and changed them top 3 different shades of dark green to show the distinction between the 3 caves, though even that seems wrong somehow

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## Ilanthar

Gray levels to indicate depth in the ground around the caves (blank or pale) maybe?

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## vorropohaiah

> Gray levels to indicate depth in the ground around the caves (blank or pale) maybe?


thanks, yeah, I'm thinking of more greyscale on the inset map, since as it is now it looks like a weird continuation of the main map itself. I might also make it a bit smaller to make it less intrusive

----------


## Diamond

Yeah, I'd make it smaller as it does kind of draw your eyes right to it.  I like Ilanthar's idea of changing the color too.  What about sepia tones and yellows/browns?

----------


## Warlin

Imo : smaller and no coloring at all, but the same background than your titles, depth shown with your scale (When it's difficult to choose, make simple.)

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## Yasha Oqlie

Hi. First time commenting here  :Smile: 
Your maps are always so inspirational, and it's incredible how dedicated you are to worldbuilding.
You probably have answered this elsewhere, but, what projection do you use for these maps (within G. Projector)?

----------


## vorropohaiah

> Hi. First time commenting here 
> Your maps are always so inspirational, and it's incredible how dedicated you are to worldbuilding.
> You probably have answered this elsewhere, but, what projection do you use for these maps (within G. Projector)?


thanks  :Smile:  it's equidistant conic

----------


## vorropohaiah

here's the composite map now that the latest map is finished:



At this point I'm done with the Inner Sea region - all future maps will be from elsewhere. I'll not be concentrating on a particular area, just detailing what takes my fancy at the time. There's a few areas I;m looking forward to doing - some to the west and some to the east of here. 

My goal for the end of the year is to finish off the poster map that brings together these 28 maps finished so far. I've realised there's not much room on the map for labels, so I'll be doing the nation names, capital names as well as other major cities and regions. I'll be including some inset text boxes too detailing some of the more important places and features - a sort of crash-course of the Inner Sea, so-to-speak. Here's a preview:

----------


## - JO -

This is pure madness ! But  beautiful madness !

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## vorropohaiah

I tried so hard to get this done by the end of the year, but i got sick over the past few weeks and wasn;t able to get it finished  :Frown:  I'm hoping to get this done over the next few weeks now. 

Ive uploaded what I managed to get done  the Inner Sea poster map with icons done and most of the inset text boxes done too. Whats left are the labels and the remainder of the sea routes.

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## ChickPea

It's looking fab, Vorro, and sorry to hear you've been ill. Hope you're feeling better.  :Smile:

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## Ilanthar

Man, this is a serious contender for next year anyway!
I LOVE it.

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## damonjynx

OMG! Superb work. I'm dumbfounded by the details in these maps - it's a shame I don't have a few spare hours to pour/drool over them right now...

----------

