# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  Dwarf Wayfort on the Underpath

## Falconius

Here's a sneak peak at what I'm up to:



The idea was inspired by Dwarven underpaths and tunnels through various fantasy worlds (particularly since I got Warhammer Total War while it was on sale) and AdventureDepot's dwarf map.  I was thinking how about making a sort of caravanserai/waypost in the underpath would work for Dwarfs and how they would design it.  

This one occurs at the junction between a minor path and a major thoroughfare between two Dwarf mountain cities.  The thoroughfare runs north south with the branch heading east going to an under forest.  I figured for the dwarfs to maintain control of the road it would have to be diverted around the fort, and I also figured that the dwarfs would be using ranged weaponry, a mix between siege bows and crossbows or what have you.  Obviously then they are going to design a structure conducive to this, which is why I went with a star fort based idea.  They have nice long, unobstructed, crossing, fields of fire.  Given the nature of the dwarves general enemies however (brutish hordes of malevolent sometimes strong creatures) I figured the dwarfs would also plan for the possibility of breaches in the outer defences, and so the fort is able to be defended in sections inside as well.

As well as being a fort this place serves as a resting place for caravans traveling the underpath.  Dwarves, to my mind love bathing (since dwarves are basically Romans, but short, and wearing the trappings of stereotypical Scots), and so I included a baths, and gym for the soldiers of the fort and the caravans traveling the road.  There is also an inn and common room and repair shop/farrier for the caravans passing through.  They can't bring their wagons into the fort but they can bring their animals and goods if they wish, and there is room for them to put there wagons safely under the guns of the fort as it were.

The reason the photo is such a jumbled mess is that I included all three levels in the same shot just to give an idea of what was going on.  This was going to be a one day project, but it expanded into something far more than I anticipated.  Further plans are:  
-To improve the lighting, the reason I didn't have lights in the wall defence rooms was so that my guys wouldn't be back lit.  I'm not sure how to solve this,because I don't want to increase the ambient lighting really.  I don't plan on texturing anything.  
-Add the defence crenelations (or arrow slits or whatever they are called, since this goes up to the roof).
-To add the service tunnels and things (sewers, reservoirs, Jeffreys tubes... I mean... maintenance tunnels), perhaps ventilation, pit access for the dead falls and that sort of thing.
-And I'm not sure If I should do this or not, but furniture, siege weapons etc.  I've already done some basic bunk beds and lockers for the barrack rooms (which you can't see because they aren't lit up), but really not sure I'f I should continue down that route or not.

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## Voolf

This may be a marvelous map Falconius. Great start. Fingers crossed.

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## Mouse

Impressive  :Smile: 

Maybe just texture the floors in a simple tiled fashion, so the increased lighting has something to show?

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## AdventureDepot

Wow. So fun to see I inspired someone  :Very Happy: 

Good work.

My guardtower was imagined to be able to mount cannons which could fire into the corridors leading east and west. I never drew gates inside the map area but I imagined some. With slots in the tower for crossbows to shoot in interesting ways during sieges. The area between the restroom and tower could be sealed of with two gates, would work as a civilian bunker as well as access for water during longer sieges for the guard tower as well.

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## Falconius

Thanks guys.




> Maybe just texture the floors in a simple tiled fashion, so the increased lighting has something to show?


Yeah that's a good idea.  I'll throw a normal map on the floor I think which should do the trick.  Perhaps an AO map as well.




> My guardtower was imagined to be able to mount cannons which could fire into the corridors leading east and west. I never drew gates inside the map area but I imagined some. With slots in the tower for crossbows to shoot in interesting ways during sieges. The area between the restroom and tower could be sealed of with two gates, would work as a civilian bunker as well as access for water during longer sieges for the guard tower as well.


Ah ok, I was imagining that more as a police station rather than as a defensive fortification.  Good to know.  It makes a lot of sense, very good fields of fire to protect the town.

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## AdventureDepot

> Thanks guys.
> 
> Ah ok, I was imagining that more as a police station rather than as a defensive fortification.  Good to know.  It makes a lot of sense, very good fields of fire to protect the town.


Ah yes since many forts will never be used, I believe such a guard tower will be used for policing duties. The town drunks have to pass the guards to take a ****, (pee is a censured word) that can change quite some dynamics in, maybe they will rather pee in an alley.

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## Falconius

I haven't touched this during the contest period, but making the contest map in the same sort of manner I'm kind of wondering really how to proceed with this one.


The contest map was relatively simple, where as this one is going to require 2-3 separate layouts for the different levels.  There is also the addition that maps are intended to simplify and make clear the information it's trying to convey.  Obviously you don't get that with 3d, which is why I went over and lined the edges in the Bloodpool map.  So I'm wondering if I should try to find someway to make it work in 3d, or just transfer it over to Krita and do a straight up 2d layout.  I do think that if I go 3D that I'm going to have to furnish the rooms, I felt it very lacking in the Bloodpool map, especially since I had to put in candelabras for the lighting.  I don't think 3d maps are very successful without that sort of context, I'm not sure why.  Another thing about the Bloodpool map is it demonstrated the requirement for texture.  I had thought that doing the sort of flat model look would help clarify what is going on, but I feel that only really works if you keep everything white, and then it is very limited in terms of atmosphere or style.  Just as an example to compare what I'm talking about**:  This untextured version, vs, this version with just some lighting effects etc.

My feeling is that I should kind of go for furnishing it and at least giving it lighting effects and maybe some texturing?  Maybe just go at it as a full blown environment?  There is another issue.  Transferring objects like this which are just planes and not volumes kind of ends up with wonky results in 3D Coat.  I've added a thickness modifier to them so I'll try and see if I can manage that way, but there is no way I can tackle texturing this sort of project in Blender.  The one thing that ended up looking like I wanted it to in the Bloodpools map was the one thing I baked up in 3 Coat and that was the Statue of Weeping Blood.

Any suggestions about this, or advice on the direction I should go with this would be much appreciated.

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## Mouse

Oh gosh!  I really-really-really-really like the second example

How about doing a Krita layout map - flat top down, and combining it in a map with generous insets showing the gorgeous models you've made?  

They are... fandabidozi  :Very Happy:

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## Falconius

> Oh gosh!  I really-really-really-really like the second example
> 
> How about doing a Krita layout map - flat top down, and combining it in a map with generous insets showing the gorgeous models you've made?  
> 
> They are... fandabidozi


"fandabidozi"?  All I can tell from looking it up is that it has something to do with "fantastic", and Scottish comedy.  I can safely say I have never encountered that word before.

Flat top down is probably the most useful way to display an underground map (and side elevation map, which is usually how I see mine maps displayed, but is not required here).  In which case dropping the 3D may be the most efficient option... hmm... problem is I really like doing 3D stuff.  I think you are right though...

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## Mouse

No - very much keep the 3D stuff.  Its beautiful.  Maybe make the best one the centrepiece - a main attraction.  Use the Krita floor plan as an inset?

Sorry about the fandabidozi! My brother used to say it all the time, so it just became part of my 'wow that looks great' vocabulary  :Smile:

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## Falconius

Lol when I first saw it I thought to myself, "Fandabidozi? Is that an Orc thing?"

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## Mouse

LOL!  Somehow I'm having enormous difficulties seeing my beloved brother as an orc!   :Razz:

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## Falconius

Like a dunce I've started modeling major furniture/set pieces for the map.  For some reason Cycles Render is freezing my system though so I only got the viewport render to show.  I'm busy updating my drivers hopefully I can get some better shots when I finish more of this project.  Especially now that Blender Cycles has de-noising to get rid of all that graininess and fireflies.

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## Falconius

Sorry for the double post but I just wanted to make a list of things I need to model furniture/feature wise.  I've found that these WIPs are brilliant for logging a project so I might as well just embrace that aspect as well.  I honestly wouldn't mind suggestions for furniture pieces as well, I'm mostly just thinking of what I remember being there in Dwarf Fortress since that seems pretty complete.

Anvil              ✓
Armoury Rack
Bins/Crates
Barrel
Bucket
Ballista           ✓
Ballista Bolt rack? some other storage?
Bunks             ✓
Chest
Chair
Clay Jars?
Door
Forge
Hatch?
Portcullises (For sally port and main gate and hallway deadstops)
Single bed
Table

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## sigurdbjohansson

Hey  :Smile:  Was wondering if this got scrapped, or if we get to see an update sooner or later?

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## Falconius

Nothing gets scraped!  But that isn't to say it doesn't end up in a scrap pile of unfinished work  :Mad: 

Yes I should probably return to it, but if I did I would approach it differently now.  Perhaps just breaking it down to 2d floor plans as I mentioned earlier in the thread.  I'm not sure...  hmm...

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