# Main > General Discussion >  Share your early maps!

## Kellerica

Every now and again, I come across people both on and off these forums, who are expressing desperation over how many talented artists we have here, and how they feel like they can never even dream of reaching such a skill level at making maps. While I wholeheartedly agree that the talent we have over here can be overwhelming, I still feel like it is important to note that *every single artist has had to start somewhere*. 

Now, I still don't think I can count myself among the most talented map-makers on this site, but even I can with absolute certainty say that I have come a long way.



Here are a couple of examples of my most early digital maps. The first one was the first completely digital map I tried making, way before I even joined the Guild, I think it was made somewhere around 2012. 

The second one is almost as old, I drew it by hand, scanned it and did some truly dreadful PS work on it. 

The third one was made in the early 2014. By this point, I had already found the Guild, downloaded some tutorials and started putting effort into actually learning my way around PS mapping. It still wouldn't be until 2015 when I was actually ready to post something on the forums. But this crop of a map seen here, is one of the many, many, many maps I worked on until that happened. 



Now, just to give you an easy to way to see this back-to-back, this is where I find myself after 6 years of learning and practicing. This fan-map of Earthsea is this far my favorite work I've completed. I still have a ways to go, but I think we can all agree that there is some serious distance between that first map and this one.




In conclusion, I hope this can give some hope to people who think their maps looks like crap and they fear they will never get better: don't worry. Our first works usually sucked too. 



If any of you others have any early works of yours saved somewhere, please post them to this thread if you feel like it! I seriously think it would do many people at the start of their journey good to see that many of us have pretty humble origins when it comes to maps and art in general. Cheers,

-Kell

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## Wingshaw

Good idea Kell.

I don't think I still have any of the maps I was making 20 years ago, but here is my first map on the Guild:


And here's what I've been doing lately:


Both are entirely digital and made in PS.

Wingshaw

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## Larb

Yes, this is a great thread. And it's definitely true - we all had to start somewhere. And anyone can become amazing at it with time and practice. This place is all about helping people do that.

So here are some of my earliest maps. I used to use Paint Shop Pro a lot years ago. 

This first one is the first ever town map I made digitally:



This next one is an early ship battlement:



And here is an old dungeon map:

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## Kellerica

Great stuff and great progress, guys! Thanks for contributing  :Smile:

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## Falconius

Argh!  I wish I had some of my old stuff with me but it's still in Edmonton.  (also I'd secretly like to rework some things in the old stuff)

I love this sort of stuff.  It's unencumbered.

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## Larb

I think I should add that there are a lot of maps I never post anywhere because they just don't work out and look terrible. Same with my artwork in general. I'm sure other people have similar things.

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## Kellerica

> I think I should add that there are a lot of maps I never post anywhere because they just don't work out and look terrible. Same with my artwork in general. I'm sure other people have similar things.


Another excellent point. And when it comes to personal projects, for every finished map I post, there is five more left forever unfinished somehere on my hard-drives. Never to be revealed to the world, because they look and feel like pure crap  :Very Happy:

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## Tiana

> Argh!  I wish I had some of my old stuff with me but it's still in Edmonton.


Perhaps ironically enough, my oldest maps are also near Edmonton... I drew my original maps by hand and if they still exist they're in a box somewhere in my mom's home. They are absolutely terrible, to my memory.

This is the oldest map of mine I have access to now, from 2010. I don't hate it, probably because I think it's funny. There might be one I did earlier than that on this site, actually, I have a faint memory of posting the first digital map I had a go at on here for advice when I first joined in 2009. While in my opinion I've come a long way it's not nearly as hideous as my original pencil maps. By the time I'd made that map I had already found a few tutorials.

I'll have to see if I can find the originals over Christmas.

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## SteffenBrand

Well, you asked for it. I don't even want to comment on WHAT THE **** this is... *sinks into the ground*
My early ones were made by hand. One was watercolor and ink, the second one was liquid ballpoint with water smudging. Ol'times.

Cheers, what a fun thread! =)

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## ThomasR

My baby ! It's not even finished yet but it is my first map AND my first map here. It lead me to cartography.

Here comes !



I'm not even ashamed  :Very Happy:

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## Gidde

I love this thread. Thanks for posting it, Kell -- reminds us all how far we've come  :Smile: 

Boy howdy, this one was bad. This is the first map I ever made, right before I came to the Guild way back when. I posted it up at the time but for some reason all my oldest maps have vanished from the site.

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## UnstableGunEnthusiast

I think this is a pretty cool initiative. So yeah, feast your eyes on my first map.




Interestingly enough, I think I started drawing maps to impress someone, pathetically enough. Safe to say, she wasn't particularly impressed, but I did find something that has become an obsession for me, so.... Profit? XD (there, an embarrassing story to accompany an embarrassingly empty map. Enjoy).

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## MapMappingMapped

That's a lovely idea.
The first one is a *cough* beauty. It's my VERY first map. NOTHING is older than that. Is it a map, you're wondering, or a jumble of text? I always laugh at this river than crosses the mainland. Do you see, in the top left, the river that draws lips? To be fair I can't remember if it IS a river, or a border. This map, you see, isn't made to make sense. 
The second one is the first map I did after getting Blando's book. I was still getting used to microns. About two years had passed. I must have been trembling, seeing the shakiness of the lines.

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## Kellerica

> My baby ! It's not even finished yet but it is my first map AND my first map here. It lead me to cartography.
> 
> Here comes !
> 
> Attachment 111336
> 
> I'm not even ashamed


It makes this one even more precious that there actually is an original thread of this here on the forums, what with J and company there welcoming you to the Guild too and all that good stuff! Something great was truly started here!  :Smile:  




> That's a lovely idea.
> The first one is a *cough* beauty. It's my VERY first map. NOTHING is older than that. Is it a map, you're wondering, or a jumble of text? I always laugh at this river than crosses the mainland. Do you see, in the top left, the river that draws lips? To be fair I can't remember if it IS a river, or a border. This map, you see, isn't made to make sense. 
> The second one is the first map I did after getting Blando's book. I was still getting used to microns. About two years had passed. I must have been trembling, seeing the shakiness of the lines.


LOL, okay, apparently the forum placed the attachments in the wrong order, so I opened that first one (really the later one) and was like "get the hell out, NO WAY is this your first map ever" and then looked at the second one and it made way more sense  :Very Happy: 


Thank you, everyone for sharing, this is just fantastic! I think every single one of us can feel good about the progress we've made. Keep 'em coming, folks!

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## JsinOwl

Oh boy, I'll have to root around and see what I kind. Some of these are great though.

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## Rochnan

My first ever map was made for a friend, who had an idea for an epic fantasy story. It also features one of my first custom photoshop brushes as the background texture -one that is still in my set after many years of rotating brushes in and out.
Ah, the good old days of april 2008...funny how it took me a full ten years to start making maps again.

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## MistyBeee

So... It sounds I was fated to be a map maker at the begining, guys. Here is my first map ever, which was so _incredibly_ good that it was immediately published in a popular French journal : "les Croqueurs de Pommes" ("the Apples Crunchers").
Yep. 
Well... ok... I was 5 years old, my grandparents were presidents and editors of the (very specialized) journal and it's popular only in farming community. But well, that was maybe the first step  :Very Happy: 
Enjoy the first map showing my grandmother's garden. Sadly the map does not show my grandfather's beehives in the other side of the apple orchard, and which, after many deviations, pushed me way, way later, to choose the name you know  :Wink: 



Edit : Corrected the age, after discussion with the higher authority : my mother ^^

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## Gidde

That is awesome, MistyBeee ... love it  :Smile:

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## Tiana

> Interestingly enough, I think I started drawing maps to impress someone, pathetically enough. Safe to say, she wasn't particularly impressed


I would've been impressed. She just basic. It's a pretty nice first map.

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## Caenwyr

Oh wow, this is a cool initiative! 

I too have some pretty old maps. And the fun thing is, I've always kept mapping the same region over and over again, so it should be fairly easy to spot the differences in style. This is how my Aran & Ilan map evolved:

 -->  -->  -->  -->  -->

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## Ilanthar

Great idea  :Smile: !

I didn't kept my early maps (I think I started when I was 12, so...). Looking for it, I've found those (the first one being probably the oldest).



And yes, I've always been crazy about way too big maps  :Razz: !

This is the first map I posted at the guild...

Hopefully improved a few years later into this


@MistyBeee : héhé, mes parents ont fait parti des Croqueurs de Pommes et je participe à l'organisation d'un festoche où on les invite régulièrement  :Wink: .

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## Ilanthar

Sniped by Caenwyr  :Wink: !

You clearly are more focused on one universe than me. I love to see the progression you have, very interesting  :Smile: .

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## J.Edward

I knew we had done something a little like this once before.
It took me a while, but I found it - https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=32716
I'm thinking that I need to make a thread that is just me putting links to all the threads I want to remember in it.  :Very Happy: 
It can be hard to find old threads sometimes. 

I'm going to have to dig around and find some old pieces, cus I know i have some from being a kid.
I'll post again in a bit after I dig some up. 
I should be working.... but...  :Wink: 

Edit - I'll just post them in here..
These are fairly old. Probably a teenager.. 12-14 maybe.
High horn keep might be earlier, idk.
--->

--->

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## Larb

High horn keep is certainly accurately named. =P

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## Eri

One of my early battle maps
 

the earliest of maps haha, tried for a large base to a tower.


and some of the most recent

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## MistyBeee

> @MistyBeee : héhé, mes parents ont fait parti des Croqueurs de Pommes et je participe à l'organisation d'un festoche où on les invite régulièrement .


Oh, oh ! Sérieusement ? Petit monde, décidément ! Même si les Croqueurs sont maintenant partout en France : j'en croise dans les endroits les plus inattendus, mais la Guilde était définitivement le dernier auquel j'aurais pensé ! ^^





> I'm going to have to dig around and find some old pieces, cus I know i have some from being a kid.
> I'll post again in a bit after I dig some up. 
> I should be working.... but... 
> 
> Edit - I'll just post them in here..
> These are fairly old. Probably a teenager.. 12-14 maybe.
> High horn keep might be earlier, idk.


There is already the first premises of your current style !!  :Surprised:

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## Ilanthar

> *By J.Edward*
> Edit - I'll just post them in here..
> These are fairly old. Probably a teenager.. 12-14 maybe.
> High horn keep might be earlier, idk.


Oh man  :Surprised: , now I'm happy I didn't kept the maps I did at the same age ; they would have looked awful in comparison with yours  :Very Happy: .




> *By MistyBeee*
> Oh, oh ! Sérieusement ? Petit monde, décidément ! Même si les Croqueurs sont maintenant partout en France : j'en croise dans les endroits les plus inattendus, mais la Guilde était définitivement le dernier auquel j'aurais pensé ! ^^


Bah on est dans la même "grande région" non? Je pense qu'ils existent dans l'Aube depuis assez longtemps. Et oui, la vie est pleine de surprises... j'ai déjà discuté avec des collègues scientifiques qui se sont rencontrés à une conférence à l'autre bout du monde pour réaliser qu'ils travaillaient à 500 mètres l'un de l'autre...

@Eri : your early maps were already very game-friendly and effective, I'd say  :Wink: .

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## Ryan Pourchot

Handful of my old maps, all hand drawn. Frasier Island was the only real world map I ever did as a kid. Buccandine Island at the bottom was a pirate hideout. 
Some of these are actually on the back of my grade school work, used to get in trouble all the time for it. Worth it. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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## ChickPea

Nice work, Ryan!

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## Ryan Pourchot

> Nice work, Ryan!


Thank you, ChickPea!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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## Bogie

My first maps were made with the same Dundjinni software I still use today and it is really good at making a basic map look OK.  I have since learned a lot about better texture selection and use of mapping elements and covers.  Still for being only the second map I ever made, it's not horrible.

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## johnvanvliet

from 2003 a colorized " blue Mars"  
-- basically Mars with Water




this is more a 3d texture than a map , but this is my main area of map making

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## Feilim

Love the maps being shown. Have to say (as an ardent roleplayer) thats its not just about artistic merit. The dungeon map shown and the little map of townhouses immediately get my GM brain working.

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## Kellerica

Your early maps certainly suck a lot less than mine did, you guys  :Very Happy:  You're making me feel bad! 

I jest, of course, it's been a blast seeing these. Glad to see so many people sharing stuff in this thread!

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## Diamond

Oooh, a chance to show off (haha)!  Here's one I did about 8 years ago, with dwarven kingdoms galore:

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## Bruno Müller

Kellerica, thanks for this post. I'm laughing a lot looking at my first maps (at least the oldest I could find here).

They are from a RPG setting called Séghen that I started with a friend when we were around 17 (I'm 30 now). The setting is abandoned now, but I have fond memories of writing it - I learned a lot!

 
2006 - Twelve years ago I had no idea how rivers worked.


2006 - A little later that year, we changed the main orientation of the map and some kingdoms shifted.


2009 - Three years later, I had loads of maps drawn on a notebook. I colored some of them on Photoshop CS3 (!).


2010 - I started making individual kingdoms. I still like the style they were coming through.

Soon after this, we abandoned the setting, and I don't even remeber why. I think mainly because my friend and I got separated because of college.

Jump to today:


2018 - A regional map of my current setting, Tiriana.

I learned a lot since my first atempts, and I'm really glad to see how I improved until today.

Thanks again for the thread, Kellerica.
You made me revive some good memories here.  :Very Happy:

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## Kellerica

> Oooh, a chance to show off (haha)!  Here's one I did about 8 years ago, with dwarven kingdoms galore:


D, you showoff, your early stuff looks about the same as my 100th attempt... Were you just born awesome?  :Very Happy: 




> Kellerica, thanks for this post. I'm laughing a lot looking at my first maps (at least the oldest I could find here).
> 
> I learned a lot since my first atempts, and I'm really glad to see how I improved until today.
> 
> Thanks again for the thread, Kellerica.
> You made me revive some good memories here.


Good stuff, you've certainly come a long way! I really like those later ones, you've got a good style going. And my pleasure, I'm glad people are finding this thread engaging.  :Smile:

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## ladiestorm

I just popped in to catch up, and saw this thread.  I have to get in on this!!!  


Anyone remember these maps?


Posted just.... has it been almost 3 years now?  Wow.  Made with CC3+, of course.

Now, what should I use as a comparison?  Oh, I know...

All of these were made with CC3+.  Wow, looking back at those first maps... maybe I HAVE come a long way!  :Smile:

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## Jerron

Speaking of early maps, these are my first world maps I did as a kid. It started out as a map of the countries my stuffed animals were kings and presidents of. So of course there is an elephant-shaped country called Elefantia and a bear shaped country named Pandiland. And in a burst of creativity I included countries with names like Ingland, Ititali, Achinland and Asuland (which weren't ins pired by any earthly country names at all!!!) And when I decided map making was so much fun I just expanded the world and added new Islands and continents. There is still another elephant shaped island, a teddy bear head shaped country and a horse shaped country... In this part of the world there were also countries like Gondor, Rohan or Narnia. And then there came the time I came to my senses and decided not top rip off places any mor and start to make up my own mind and create a world myself. Some parts of coastlines made it into my world Esper and keep my childhood alive.

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## Kellerica

> Speaking of early maps, these are my first world maps I did as a kid. It started out as a map of the countries my stuffed animals were kings and presidents of. So of course there is an elephant-shaped country called Elefantia and a bear shaped country named Pandiland. And in a burst of creativity I included countries with names like Ingland, Ititali, Achinland and Asuland (which weren't ins pired by any earthly country names at all!!!) And when I decided map making was so much fun I just expanded the world and added new Islands and continents. There is still another elephant shaped island, a teddy bear head shaped country and a horse shaped country... In this part of the world there were also countries like Gondor, Rohan or Narnia. And then there came the time I came to my senses and decided not top rip off places any mor and start to make up my own mind and create a world myself. Some parts of coastlines made it into my world Esper and keep my childhood alive.


If that is not awesome/adorable I don't know what is.

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## FranCobasGC

I think this one was one of the firsts maps I remember I did... hehe

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## Abu Lafia

Oh, this is a cool idea for a thread Kell!  :Very Happy:  Love to see the many miles everyone made to this day...

Going through heaps of really old rpg stuff not too long ago, i stumbled upon a map i did with a friend of mine in 6th or 7th grade in school for a fantasy world we were imagining. Scanned it immediately...ah the memories XD


Around 2006 i came across the idea to create maps digitally for the first time ... Ressources and knowhow were scarce to find around the web and the functioning of layers in gimp totally blew my mindback then  :Very Happy:  


First bigger and more ambitious project was the revamp of that older map into "Kharoun" in 2015 with the patient help and feedback of some wonderful Guildies... 


EDIT: Maybe it's time for another revamp soon...  :Smile:

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## Kellerica

Cool stuff, Abu! Thanks for contributing  :Smile: 

That's actually not a bad idea, you know. Take the time to re-create an early map, maybe even one I've posted in this thread... Could be fun.

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## J.Edward

> Cool stuff, Abu! Thanks for contributing 
> 
> That's actually not a bad idea, you know. Take the time to re-create an early map, maybe even one I've posted in this thread... Could be fun.


Flips back to see what I shared....
That could be fun. Maybe posting them in a new thread...
or it may get hard to find things here. That said, i suppose it can go however you'd prefer, Kell, as you started this.  :Wink: 
Which map will you choose? I could easily do a dungeon... but High Horn Keep calls to me, throw the ages.....  :Razz:

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## Kellerica

> Flips back to see what I shared....
> That could be fun. Maybe posting them in a new thread...
> or it may get hard to find things here. That said, i suppose it can go however you'd prefer, Kell, as you started this. 
> Which map will you choose? I could easily do a dungeon... but High Horn Keep calls to me, throw the ages.....


If you want my vote, I'd love to see what you'd be able to do with High Horn Keep these days!

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## J.Edward

> If you want my vote, I'd love to see what you'd be able to do with High Horn Keep these days!


I have already begun  :Razz: 
It's ... different. I can't say if it still has the crazy feel of the first one.
But, it'll be interesting, at the least.
I hope some others will do this. I'd love to see what things people would choose, and how they'd redo it now.

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## ThomasR

High Horn Keep reminds me of a Ron Cobb concept for Conan the Barbarian  :Wink:

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## Larb

> I have already begun 
> It's ... different. I can't say if it still has the crazy feel of the first one.
> But, it'll be interesting, at the least.
> I hope some others will do this. I'd love to see what things people would choose, and how they'd redo it now.


I am tempted to give something a try.

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## Ramah

Hey there,

Just seen this thread so I thought I'd join in.

Here is the very first map I did, other than doodles when I was a kid. It was a sketch in a notebook that I made to help me with the story I had begun to dream up. I would estimate this was around 27 years ago as I remember describing the story to a friend of mine at the time of an important occasion.



I worked on the story, on-and-off, for many years, first in notebooks, then an old IBM 8088xt computer I bought as a word processor, then on my first real pc - a 488 DX2 66! Phew. Then I kind of drifted from it.

Years pass and I finally pick it up again but I couldn't find the notebook.  So I look into making a new map, digitally. At first I tried campaign cartographer, bought it and everything, but I didn't like the results. So I looked around for tutorials on how to use photoshop and found this place.
Through various tutorials and a bunch of great feedback I ended up with my first digital map:



It was well received at the time but honestly, I can barely stand to look at it now. :S

I've obviously found the notebook since and it's kind of embarrassing how much I had forgotten and got wrong when I redrew the map. Although some of it I changed on purpose. I knew the original had 6 countries around the 'Mite' and reduced it to three in the update. And I knew there was a top to the map but I wanted the digital version to be bigger and expandable.

Anyway, now the original sketch is 'unofficial' and 'not canon' I guess when I think of my world. Seems weird.

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## Kellerica

Ooh, cool to see you chiming in, Ramah! Even though I was madly impressed by that first Vaniya map when I first saw it (it was in fact one of my my most early inspirations and in no small part responsible for really getting me into mapping!), I think it's clear how much your maps have improved since this one. It's been a blast seeing this world develop this far. And I do hope you'll eventually get back to that new map you started last year...  :Wink:

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## Hjorimir

All of my early maps are long gone (and looking at the art you all are posting) that's probably a good thing. Amazing talent here.

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## Bombastus

> All of my early maps are long gone (and looking at the art you all are posting) that's probably a good thing. Amazing talent here.


You just inspired me to go back and uncover the terrible mspaint maps I made back in High School.

I'd been bouncing around the idea for a story based in an isolated valley, surrounded on all sides by impassible mountains.  The outside world had developed to a WW1-level of technology, and the outsider main character ends up in the valley due to a plane crash or something.    Honestly, I don't really remember that well.

The thing was, magic existed in the valley but nowhere else, so the story was going to feature a juxtaposition of the relative technological savvy of the MC with the magical culture within the valley.  Nothing ever came of the story, and I never wrote a word of it down, as far as I remember.

Anyway, to find the maps, I had to
1. Find the ancient laptop they were saved in
2. Figure out how to log in to the damn thing
3. Take pictures of the screen with the camera, because my brother warned me against connecting the laptop to _anything_.  Something about owning the laptop as a teenager and porn malware.

Look what you made me do!  I hope you're proud of yourself.







As you can see, there was a bit of a progression in the maps, but the overall idea remained the same.  Inaccessible valley surrounded by mountains with a large lake in the middle.  The latter versions had a particularly large mountain in the southern half with a broken crown.  I think the big bad was supposed to lair there or something?  I don't really remember why I included it tbh.

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## Jaxilon

Due to this months awesome Challenge and my commissioning Ramah to do a map of my game world I was forced to do some digging and found one of my earliest maps. This baby goes back decades! I'm talking 25/30 years or more.

I clearly didn't understand about how rivers work and so for those of you who may have had me mention your rivers this shows I'm speaking from experience. I too used to murder them.  :Smile: 

I know this early map of mine was influenced by the maps in the Sword of Shannara series by Terry Brooks. Along with the Elfstones, these had a bit to do with my world dreamings at the time.

Somewhere I know I had some updates to this, like corrected rivers and lakes but I think they are on another hard drive that hasn't been setup since my move last year. Therefore, I'm going to have Ramah redo this with plenty of freedom to  stretch things around, manipulate land plates and so on. I'm not even sure I still like all the names although some of them are canon with my group now. Good lord those rivers bug me something fierce now, they are terrible. 

Included in my request were some things that need to be conveyed in the new map that are not on this old one. Over the decades this world has been played in so there are stories tied to specific areas such as the quickly scribbled in "Spire" on the sw corner. 
I also gave a short summary of the world backstory, the races and a few specifics to help capture the feel the map should give. Mostly this is just so much GM notes and I'm psyched to see Ramah translate it into something super awesome. I'll say no more here.

Suffice to say I think I've come a long way as far as map making goes.

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## Tiana

I finally found it! My first map, done in probably October or November 2006 for my second Nanowrimo attempt (which got 100k but never finished). As I recall the planet had an extremely long rotation causing an extended period of nightfall which continually got forgotten by the more mortal inhabitants of the world because it was so brutal it would kill most of them off, and then the extended lifespan people would reseed the lands, but it focused on a human, Scarecrow, and an elf who was helping him try to escape, and their subsequent journey across the continent meeting all kinds of weird enclaves of creatures which could survive in the night. But it's very unclear memories by now. If this isn't proof that anyone can draw a good map with enough persistence and practice, I dunno what is.

I think my favorite parts include the top left where I was apparently just like "WHATEVER I'M SICK OF MAKING COASTLINE WOOSH" or maybe I was trying to be clever and imply that there was a sunken enormous mechanical item there...? It's just... so smooth compared to everything else. Also how I was apparently just like "okay I know how the watershed works because I wrote where they cross a river here and there and about a lake there" so there's the one detailed part and then the rest is just like EHH WHATEVER MAYBE A RIVER HERE?? Then there's the floaty rocks in the bottom corner which are awesome but have no reason to be there because the story never went there at all.

It has some good energy to it, but yeah... it's not great... and I knew that then which is why it was never digitized until now.

Anyway, you can do anything if you actually want to do it and put your mind to it and repeatedly do it over and over and over and over and over again. If I had looked at this and decided "yeah this is crap" I wouldn't be where I am today, but instead I was like "well this works as a guide for my writing right now but I want to do a map again later but better".

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## CharaAzon

Not my first, but is my terrible attempt to do one on the computer. i have since learned i like to hand draw my maps

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## Caenwyr

> Anyway, to find the maps, I had to
> 1. Find the ancient laptop they were saved in
> 2. Figure out how to log in to the damn thing
> 3. Take pictures of the screen with the camera, because my brother warned me against connecting the laptop to _anything_.  Something about owning the laptop as a teenager and porn malware.


What malware? You used a word there I'm not familiar with  :Razz: 

Seriously though, glorious maps! I spent a good part of my youth bent over scraps of paper with basically the same type of map - that and a bunch of ink splotches

Also, many of the early maps on this thread are not too different from the sketches I (and probably many other cartographers) get sent in by clients. They're definitely full of detail already, and all they lack is a little TLC to make them pop! I'm happy to see that many of you have kept going back to your early maps and given them just the TLC they needed. This is how we learn!

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## Gamerprinter

Until I joined the Cartographers' Guild, I've never digitally scanned nor saved the files to maps I created at anytime prior to joining. I have nothing to show from before. You want to see my early maps, look at my challenge maps, or maps I posted in 2007 and 2008, here at the CG... those are my early maps.

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## Tiana

> Also, many of the early maps on this thread are not too different from the sketches I (and probably many other cartographers) get sent in by clients. They're definitely full of detail already, and all they lack is a little TLC to make them pop! I'm happy to see that many of you have kept going back to your early maps and given them just the TLC they needed. This is how we learn!


Yeah, my early maps look EXACTLY like most of my client sketches, which is why whenever I see a particularly good example from a potential client I encourage them to consider spending a few more hours working on it digitally, because it's not a lot harder to get into than any other kind of digital art. Of course anyone can hire me if they want to, but it's also nice when people, especially the ones with low budgets and big visions, learn to do what they want to see themselves.

While yes, when I first made that map, I guarantee I had no idea how to get the results I do now, it was a stepping stone to getting to these results.

Some of my client sketches are much much worse than what I see in this thread and THOSE are the people who need help...  :Very Happy:  Perhaps no amount of learning will help them make a nice piece of design, because they are not passionate about it, they like writing more than drawing and they know that it takes three days by foot to get from here to there, and two days by horse to get over there because they wrote that in their novel, but no idea how to make that actually WORK.

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## Marc Moureau

Here's an early one, not the earliest but the first I had to draw for a commission.

Not the most useful either, its only purpose was to decorate the game board.

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## JoshStolarz

Still looks pretty cool Marc. I bet it would look cool on a game board

- Josh

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## Falconius

We need to call the River Police.

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## Caenwyr

> We need to call the River Police.


Hahahaha was thinking the same thing! But come on, cut the guy some slack, this is his early work. I'm sure there's some kind of limitation period for these minor misdemeanors 

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

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## Falconius

> Hahahaha was thinking the same thing! But come on, cut the guy some slack, this is his early work. I'm sure there's some kind of limitation period for these minor misdemeanors 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 :Wink:   Yup.  Pretty sure we all have a few river skeletons in our closets.

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## Marc Moureau

> We need to call the River Police.


Indeed, i know exactly what you're talking about.

In my defense, the original design of the map was made by the client who wanted it on the game board.

I wasn't asked to create the actual map, just draw it on the board.

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## Tiana

> To my defense, the original design of the map was made by the client who wanted it on the game board.
> 
> I wasn't asked to create the actual map, just draw it on the board.


The artists might sulk but we money making pros know, you gotta do what the client asks you to do. I will change the rivers to be more realistic in my first draft but if they ask me to change them back because that design is important to them, I say, "Okay, here's the new rivers" and that's that.

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## Marc Moureau

> The artists might sulk but we money making pros know, you gotta do what the client asks you to do. I will change the rivers to be more realistic in my first draft but if they ask me to change them back because that design is important to them, I say, "Okay, here's the new rivers" and that's that.


You've said it all. The client decides.

However, that doesn't mean I didn't make my share of silly maps back in the days... Most of them on the pages of my notebooks, during classes...

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## JoshStolarz

I did a map for somebody who already had a map published in a couple novels and I was asked to do a new version. As I looked at the map I realized there was a couple river violations ... I opted to help her understand the issue and provided some solutions that wouldn’t dramatically change the map. She was honestly very thankful and more than happy to let me make the changes. 

Honestly as the cartographer, you’re the expert and should be the one to help educate. If the client rejects your advice then you have to make the client happy...but in my experience the client is usually thankful to hear from somebody who knows more about the subject.

- Josh

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## Ilanthar

Very nice work, Marc, I really like your color choices on this "early map" of yours.

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## Marc Moureau

> Honestly as the cartographer, you’re the expert and should be the one to help educate. If the client rejects your advice then you have to make the client happy...but in my experience the client is usually thankful to hear from somebody who knows more about the subject.


You're absolutely right, except at that time I wasn't a cartographer, much less an expert, just someone who was glad enough to be paid for drawing something.




> Very nice work, Marc, I really like your color choices on this "early map" of yours.


Thanks ! Honestly, I wasn't expecting it to draw so much attention.

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## Impractical Cartographer

I drew this map two years ago.
I like it.
Looking at this map, I see the progress I've made since that time.

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## MistyBeee

It was already amazing. I especially love your work on the coat of arms, but the map itself looks really great, already showing the premise of your current style.

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## Tiana

> I did a map for somebody who already had a map published in a couple novels and I was asked to do a new version. As I looked at the map I realized there was a couple river violations ... I opted to help her understand the issue and provided some solutions that wouldnt dramatically change the map. She was honestly very thankful and more than happy to let me make the changes. 
> 
> Honestly as the cartographer, youre the expert and should be the one to help educate. If the client rejects your advice then you have to make the client happy...but in my experience the client is usually thankful to hear from somebody who knows more about the subject.
> 
> - Josh


And in my experience, I've been told "this existing in the way I drew it is important to me for story reasons, I know how geography works in the real world and don't care to make it match up to those rules" more than once. So of course it's worth trying to present corrections... but not all clients are so interested in having critiques on their worldbuilding applied. You should help educate them if they want it, but also not staunch their fun if the rivers are actually an enormous elemental being that moves around as it would like, or the king just dug that canal and the consequences are part of the story, or "well they have to travel by boat from here to there and there and then to there" or even "I like the way mine looks better, can you change it to be more like the original?"

I'm glad you've had positive experiences suggesting changes from the client sketch. I have had those too, and have certainly improved people's designs. Not everyone is so willing to have their vision changed though... and I always let them win.

Anyway, I agree, it was a great looking early map, nothing to be ashamed of.

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