# Mapmaking Discussion & Philosophy (WIP/Critique) > Dungeon/Subterranean Mapping >  Schley inspired Dungeon style

## damonjynx

Hi Folks,

There are many excellent cartographers out there and one of my many favourites is Mike Schley. I really like his dungeon maps (his other maps aren't too shabby either!) so, I'm attempting to produce something in a similar-ish style. So far just been trying a couple of different techniques to get the basic look for the rooms and background. I'm not unhappy with this so far...the grids a little off as I reduced the resolution a wee bit for posting.

### Latest WIP ###

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## XCali

Hey man. How's it going?  :Smile: 

It is actually a cool idea to try and improve your style by studying big artists in the world. 
(Just a note, I'm pondering alongside you on this one, so hopefully it doesn't feel like I am taking hits at your work. Because that is not my intention at all.  :Smile:  ) So, I have been looking at his dungeon maps. and I feel the texture used is not as busy as yours, which is important I would say, since you want the eyes to focus on what is in the actual hallways and rooms.
Secondly, on my journey with lighting and shading, I realised a significant thing, mostly that darker signifies a depression and lighter a protrusion. _(Still, there are exceptions to this, but then you have to be bold with your shadows and highlights usage)_  So, I feel that looking at a dungeon pic from a distance it would have to be from first glance what is the depression in the ground and what is sticking up. Which means that your texture looks like it is below the actual dungeon, whereas it actually needs to signify being above and the hallways are sunk into.
My suggestion for this would be to add _deeper_ Core(small dark) shadows and a bit _longer_ Cast(more gentle) shadows, then touch up the  ridges with highlights to make them pop out of the page.
All of this is quite fast changes one can make, but it has the effect.  :Wink: 
Below I have two examples, one is a Protrusion and the other goes down into the ground. One thing was for certain, the highlights was very important but also the Core and cast shadows.


Hope this was useful feedback. I am looking forward to seeing you continue.


edit: (P.S. The partial image comes from a town map I drew with pen and paper and scanned it, multiplied on the top layer and proceeded to colour and shade it digitally.)

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## damonjynx

> Hey man. How's it going?


Hi right back at you. Things are going OK, could be better but every day you wake up is a good one, right?




> So, I have been looking at his dungeon maps. and I feel the texture used is not as busy as yours, which is important I would say, since you want the eyes to focus on what is in the actual hallways and rooms.


100% agree. Need to make mine so it truly is a background and not so in your face. I think he has a stock of backgrounds that he uses, varying the colours here and there and flipping etc, this one of mine is a concrete texture straight off textures.com. I'll try reducing the opacity/fill, change the blending mode to overlay and put over a mottled grey or brown layer and see how that looks.




> Secondly, on my journey with lighting and shading, I realised a significant thing, mostly that darker signifies a depression and lighter a protrusion. _(Still, there are exceptions to this, but then you have to be bold with your shadows and highlights usage)_


True again.




> So, I feel that looking at a dungeon pic from a distance it would have to be from first glance what is the depression in the ground and what is sticking up. Which means that your texture looks like it is below the actual dungeon, whereas it actually needs to signify being above and the hallways are sunk into. My suggestion for this would be to add _deeper_ Core(small dark) shadows and a bit _longer_ Cast(more gentle) shadows, then touch up the  ridges with highlights to make them pop out of the page.
> All of this is quite fast changes one can make, but it has the effect.


To my eyes, I think what I've done looks about right when looking at the full size picture. I tried darker, slightly larger shadows on the dungeon "floor" and to me they looked too dark. Bearing in mind, these are done with layer effects and not hand painted. Perhaps, making the outer glow along the edges a fraction smaller would help? I'll try some things with this existing portion of floor-plan and see what I can come up with.




> Below I have two examples, one is a Protrusion and the other goes down into the ground. One thing was for certain, the highlights was very important but also the Core and cast shadows.


Very nice and obvious which bits are above and below ground.




> Hope this was useful feedback. I am looking forward to seeing you continue.


Absolutely it was helpful. It's always good to have other people comment on your work. Constructive criticism/feedback is always welcome.

Thanks for taking the time to look and comment! Appreciate it.

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## damonjynx

Spent 10 minutes having a play around - still a very long way to go!

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## damonjynx

Hi Folks,

A bit more of a update. 

Here are 2 versions, 1 with sketch and 1 without. I know I've set myself a task with this, as apart from the relatively easy part of laying out the rooms of the dungeon, a lot of the appeal of Mike's maps is in the detail. I mean, just one look and you know it's his piece. I will be very pleased with a close approximation!

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## damonjynx

It occurred to me after having another look at some of Mike's dungeon maps that rather than using outer glow and inner shadow layer effects (which is what the above are all examples of) his dungeons look more like the walls are embossed. Also, his floor textures are often very similar to, if not exactly the same as his wall texture just much lightened versions.

So here is where I'm at at the moment and I'm far more pleased with this look. I've added a touch of dressing - these are all smart objects, once I'm happy with the final arrangement and so on, I'll rasterize and colour them.

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## XCali

Nice! I like your latest one far better. Both the texture and the actual rooms looking like they are sunk into the rock. Good job  :Very Happy:

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## damonjynx

Thanks Xcali. I think I’m getting closer to his ‘style’ if not his skill That is many years of practice away!

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## damonjynx

Another update. I'm liking this except for the colour of the rug under the bed - my colouring needs some work :Wink:

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## XCali

Hey man. Nice seeing you making progress  :Wink: 

I was on my way to adding this set of free to use assets to my thread and thought maybe you'd find some use for them. Your choice absolutely, but it is an option if you so wished.  :Smile: 


(This is probably my personal opinion, but I feel that symbol you drew on the floor of that main room is a bit distasteful. Not that I am offended or anything, I just feel I have never liked it when people resort to using it. Make of that what you will. That said, I'm still looking forward to seeing you make progress.  :Smile:  )

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## damonjynx

Hi Xcali, I understand what you mean re the symbology, it is often associated with dark magic and in this case, rightly so (Though I could always come up with something less traditional to symbolise a magic circle). The basic premise behind this map is that of a cult that worships, i.e. feeds, some sort of ancient, powerful vampire lords that are being held in stasis by the magic circle. Blood spilt on the sacrificial altar powers the circle and also feeds the vampires. If the circle is destroyed the vampires are freed - using mist form to escape via the blood channel opening. I think as far as lore goes, the idea is that the vampires were once heroes that became corrupted and it was decided the community would be best served by having them imprisoned rather than destroyed so they can be unleashed on the communities enemies, should the need arise. Kind of like WMD's in an end of world scenario.

Thanks for the assets! I may or may not use them on this map but I'll keep them for future reference.

Cheers,

Jim

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## XCali

> Hi Xcali, I understand what you mean re the symbology, it is often associated with dark magic and in this case, rightly so (Though I could always come up with something less traditional to symbolise a magic circle). The basic premise behind this map is that of a cult that worships, i.e. feeds, some sort of ancient, powerful vampire lords that are being held in stasis by the magic circle. Blood spilt on the sacrificial altar powers the circle and also feeds the vampires. If the circle is destroyed the vampires are freed - using mist form to escape via the blood channel opening. I think as far as lore goes, the idea is that the vampires were once heroes that became corrupted and it was decided the community would be best served by having them imprisoned rather than destroyed so they can be unleashed on the communities enemies, should the need arise. Kind of like WMD's in an end of world scenario.
> 
> Thanks for the assets! I may or may not use them on this map but I'll keep them for future reference.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jim


Completely fair point you made. Sounds like a few sinister secrets lies in waiting. Good luck with creating the rest.  :Wink: 

P.S. You are welcome. I just thought it might come of use for you later on.

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## damonjynx

Hi Folks,

Not a lot of progress. I changed the magic circle icon, added a dark-blue, nearly black overlay layer at around 70% opacity, I felt it a little too bright given the subject matter and re-positioned the pit trap. I saw a YouTube video the other day on how to turn a photo into a comic style drawing by simply using a couple of filters and messing around with layer adjustments. I might try that for some of the furnishings (my actual drawings are pretty rubbish...).

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## XCali

Nice. I like the darker look and the new magic circle.  :Smile: 

If furnishings is a problem, then you are welcome to use/change these for the map.

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## damonjynx

Hi Folks,

As per other posts I've moved to a new 64-bit mac and have decided to jump on the CC3+ (via WINE) bandwagon because my Adobe CS4 suite will not run on it which is highly annoying and I refuse to pay a subscription to 'update' software I already own...

As the majority of my paid work is for old-school type dungeon maps and for some other creative endeavours I'm working on, I thought CC3+ would be a good solution, allowing to me to create functional and attractive maps in many styles for the 3 main categories of Fantasy RPG cartography; Overland, City and Battle Map/Dungeon. Anyhow, here is a WIP of a redo of the above map in the OSR dungeon style that shipped with the Humble Bundle which included the 3 main programs CC3+, City Designer and Dungeon Designer and a host of other stuff.

There are some errors, notably a missing wall to the sacrificial chamber which is on a sub-level, I'm not happy with the coloured background and will be changing it. I need to work on the placement of some stuff too and label and key it properly. As a rank Novice with the program I think it's a pretty good start. I might do a couple of versions, once I'm happy with it, and send to my publisher to see which he would prefer moving forward for their Classic Fantasy line. Also, the symbol sets for that style are a bit...bland? I don't know. I think I'll export my Dungeon Symbols from Ai into CC3+ once I've got a better handle on the program. I apologise for low resolution, I'm still working that out also.

### Latest WIP ###


What do you guys think?

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## damonjynx

Hi Folks,

Here is another update. I'm finally getting the gist of CC3+ and will start doing some other maps. I need to work on the hatching, it's very close to what I want but not quite there yet, further experimentation required. I also need to re-visit the manual for how to add the grid to the navigable parts of the map, or at least put a scale marker on it...And the last thing I'll do to it is add it to a parchment background and adjust the blending effects...

### Latest WIP ###

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## LunaticDesign

Nice, as a critique I would make the edges of your cross hatching less uniform and in the open space between the rooms it's okay if you don't fill those with hatching.

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## damonjynx

> Nice, as a critique I would make the edges of your cross hatching less uniform and in the open space between the rooms it's okay if you don't fill those with hatching.


Yeah, that’s what I was alluding to above.  The hatching is a background fill and I’ve not worked out how to attach it to a wall at #width or how to mask those areas of solid fill. The former may not be possible but I’m all but certain I can figure out the latter.

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